appropriate age - music / ballet class

"David desJardins" wrote in message
...
For ballet in particular, I'd also try hard to steer the child in the
direction of dance lessons and styles that I regard as healthy, rather
than practicing things that some people think are "artistic" or
"beautiful" but which are really bad for the feet. (I don't even
approve of high heels.)

If you are referring to pointe, you are right, for young feet it's not
healthy. If your daughter falls in love with ballet, do not let her
go on pointe until her feet are 75% ossified, and her technique
is considered by her teacher strong enough to hold her feet up.
Children should not be taught pointe, and few ballet schools in
the US would allow a girl under 12 to even strap the shoes on.
After a year of 20 to 30 minutes a week at the barre, they are
may be ready for center work. (My daughter took two years
of barre.) So you should not see children dancing on pointe,
the youngest performers you should see on pointe are in their
teens. If this is followed, ballet is not really bad for the feet any
more than soccer is really bad for the knees and ankles or tennis
is really bad for the elbows.

And, again, I'd primarily approach this through
trying to choose between schools or classes based on a similarity of
view to my own, rather than trying to discourage the child's enthusiasm.

I wanted soccer and tennis players, I got a dancer and an equestrian.
I thought well, maybe tap, I can do tap with them...they went for
jazz and hip hop. I thought dressage, yes dressage looks lovely,
she went for jumping.

I think they sense our views, and go the other way.

David desJardins

In article , Rosalie B. wrote:
Do you mean singing? I was talking about playing an instrument. How
can you not reproduce a tune on the piano?

As a child I learned to reproduce tunes on piano and on clarinet by
reading music and memorizing finger motions. I couldn't always hear
when a mistake was made, though, and I certainly couldn't sing.

How much do you push music on someone with considerably less than
average skill at it?

There are circumstances where music is a lost cause I guess, but I
haven't had to deal with it.

Other than the readin' writin' and 'rithmetic and other things that
they learn in school, I think all children should learn how to do
various skills for safety and in order to live in their society.
Things as varied as how to swim and how to drive a gearshift car. But
after the child learns to swim, if they really don't like it, they
don't have to be on a swim team for years.

Swimming is definitely a life skill that all kids should be taught if
possible. It's another one of those things that I got lots of
instruction in, but never got any good at.

Well that's where swim team would come in - an hour of practice 2 or 3
times a week and you'd get at least good enough to swim to shore from
the boat. Practice is the thing.

I had swimming lessons enough to be able to swim---weekly for about 6
years. I could swim a few hundred yards, if I didn't suffer from
hypothermia---I was a very skinny kid and in those days they didn't
heat the pools nearly enough. Although I don't enjoy swimming now
(and never really have), I feel that swimming is an important life
skill, and my son is getting lessons a couple times a week.

I don't know (or care) whether he gets to be a good enough swimmer to
be on a swim team or become a lifeguard or a surfer, but I'd like him
to have a reasonable chance of survival if he falls of the wharf or
into a pool

....

We've had some discussion on what the life skills are that a child
should learn. I don't think ballet is one of them, although my mom
thought it was good for teaching someone to move gracefully.

Ballet is only one of many ways to learn to move gracefully, and
hardly the most useful. Training in a martial art that uses flowing
movements is another route to this goal. I think that learning how to
fall safely is a really important life skill, so have my son in aikido
classes, for the movement practice and the falling practice. (I
sometimes do aikido myself, when my knees will let me.)

I never had training in martial arts. I learned to fall in theatre
classes. But learning to move gracefully isn't really necessary.
Learning to fall is. Gymnasts and horseback riders and vaulters also
need to know how to fall. Riders practice involuntary dismounts.

There are many ways to learn to fall. Personally, I think that aikido
offers some of the best training in it, since it is not an occasional
practice, as it is in theater or horseback riding, but a
hundreds-of-times an hour practice at every training session.
As a martial art, aikido is particularly appealing for teaching kids,
because it is wholly defensive. It does not offer training in kicking
and punching, but in getting out of the way and redirecting the attack.


--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
...

[]
I wanted soccer and tennis players, I got a dancer and an equestrian.
I thought well, maybe tap, I can do tap with them...they went for
jazz and hip hop. I thought dressage, yes dressage looks lovely,
she went for jumping.[]

I think that this sort of thing happens a lot and I've thinking about what
to do about it. Clearly what is neded is a child exchange website. Then we
could get all the children and parents matched up properly. g

Jayne

"Kevin Karplus" wrote in message
...

[]
There are many ways to learn to fall. Personally, I think that aikido
offers some of the best training in it, since it is not an occasional
practice, as it is in theater or horseback riding, but a
hundreds-of-times an hour practice at every training session.
As a martial art, aikido is particularly appealing for teaching kids,
because it is wholly defensive. It does not offer training in kicking
and punching, but in getting out of the way and redirecting the attack.

I didn't feel it was important to teach children to fall until I got to my
fourth child. She just seems to have an active and reckless nature. At 4
yo she broke her leg by jumping backwards off the top bunk. When we asked
her why she did it she told us, "Jumping off frontwards wasn't enough fun."
The day after she got her cast on, she was climbing trees. Once the cast
was off we put her in gymnastics, hoping it would teach her to fall and
improve her ability to assess risks.. She did that for quite a few years
but was not very interested in the competetive aspect (which tends to
dominate gymnastics classes). So, a few years ago she switched to circus
training. She still does not seem to have developed a sense of caution and
says that she would like to be a stunt worker in movies. Other careers she
has expressed interest in are joining the army (not for the fighting - basic
training appeals to her!) and being a firefighter.

I think there are some skills that all children should be exposed to and
then there are other skillls that children need because of their particular
temperment. This would be one of my considerations in how much I encourage
a child to stick to an given activity.

Jayne

x-no-archive:yes (Kevin Karplus) wrote:

In article , Rosalie B. wrote:
Do you mean singing? I was talking about playing an instrument. How
can you not reproduce a tune on the piano?

As a child I learned to reproduce tunes on piano and on clarinet by
reading music and memorizing finger motions. I couldn't always hear
when a mistake was made, though, and I certainly couldn't sing.

Oy. Well that's certainly an indication that music isn't for you.
Although most of the time when you play tunes, you do it by memorizing
the finger motions, at least at first.

Other than the readin' writin' and 'rithmetic and other things that
they learn in school, I think all children should learn how to do
various skills for safety and in order to live in their society.
Things as varied as how to swim and how to drive a gearshift car. But
after the child learns to swim, if they really don't like it, they
don't have to be on a swim team for years.

Swimming is definitely a life skill that all kids should be taught if
possible. It's another one of those things that I got lots of
instruction in, but never got any good at.

Well that's where swim team would come in - an hour of practice 2 or 3
times a week and you'd get at least good enough to swim to shore from
the boat. Practice is the thing.

I had swimming lessons enough to be able to swim---weekly for about 6
years. I could swim a few hundred yards, if I didn't suffer from
hypothermia---I was a very skinny kid and in those days they didn't
heat the pools nearly enough. Although I don't enjoy swimming now
(and never really have), I feel that swimming is an important life
skill, and my son is getting lessons a couple times a week.

Weekly isn't often enough to get any skill. If you were having
lessons, you probably weren't using your muscles enough to stave off
hypothermia. That's why swim team - in swim team, you are SWIMMING
almost all the time - there's none of the stopping for the instructor
to tell you what to do and to allow all the others to have a turn.
Swim team (at least the way I did it) isn't completely about
competition - it's about improving yourself and about aerobic
conditioning. (Which is the problem I see with martial arts - not
enough aerobic conditioning in there.)

Pools that are heated to 80 degrees or more like they do for folks
with arthritis are too hot for good competitive swimming because the
heat generated by the muscles isn't taken away as well as it needs to
be.

I don't know (or care) whether he gets to be a good enough swimmer to
be on a swim team or become a lifeguard or a surfer, but I'd like him
to have a reasonable chance of survival if he falls of the wharf or
into a pool

One doesn't have to be a good swimmer to be on a swim team. Most swim
teams have a bunch of kids that at the beginning of the season aren't
very good.

You might have done OK as a surfer as they usually wear thermal
protection.

grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes
"Jayne Kulikauskas" wrote:

"Kevin Karplus" wrote in message
.. .

[]
There are many ways to learn to fall. Personally, I think that aikido
offers some of the best training in it, since it is not an occasional
practice, as it is in theater or horseback riding, but a

In Pony Club, and involuntary dismount is a required skill and is
practiced at increasing paces - starting at the walk. In vaulting
(which is not the gymnastic vault with a stationary 'horse' but is
done with a real horse trotting or cantering in a circle around the
person in the center) it is a skill that is practiced A LOT.

hundreds-of-times an hour practice at every training session.
As a martial art, aikido is particularly appealing for teaching kids,
because it is wholly defensive. It does not offer training in kicking
and punching, but in getting out of the way and redirecting the attack.

I tried to give my son karate lessons (it was the only martial art
available to us - we do live way out in the sticks) and he wasn't
interested. Since I was working and I had to rely on him going to
practice after school without my riding herd on him, he didn't get
very far.


I didn't feel it was important to teach children to fall until I got to my
fourth child. She just seems to have an active and reckless nature. At 4
yo she broke her leg by jumping backwards off the top bunk. When we asked
her why she did it she told us, "Jumping off frontwards wasn't enough fun."
The day after she got her cast on, she was climbing trees. Once the cast
was off we put her in gymnastics, hoping it would teach her to fall and
improve her ability to assess risks.. She did that for quite a few years
but was not very interested in the competetive aspect (which tends to
dominate gymnastics classes). So, a few years ago she switched to circus
training. She still does not seem to have developed a sense of caution and
says that she would like to be a stunt worker in movies. Other careers she
has expressed interest in are joining the army (not for the fighting - basic
training appeals to her!) and being a firefighter.

My dd#2 was kind of like that. I forbade her to do a back flip off
the diving board after I noticed that she had taken the skin off all
the bumps on her spine by coming down too close to the board.

She has a dd who is definitely the same way. She has absolutely no
fear (dd#2 did have some fears), and will leap into the water at a
moments notice and also seems to have some gymnastic ability. OTOH,
she doesn't like to get hot and sweaty (difficult when you live in
Miami to do any sport that's outdoors). DD#2 has decided on this
basis of this that she probably should be a diver. IMHO none of them
have enough fast twitch muscle fibers to be a good competitive
swimmer.

I think there are some skills that all children should be exposed to and
then there are other skillls that children need because of their particular
temperment. This would be one of my considerations in how much I encourage
a child to stick to an given activity.


grandma Rosalie

In article , "Jayne Kulikauskas"
writes:


I think that this sort of thing happens a lot and I've thinking about what
to do about it. Clearly what is neded is a child exchange website. Then we
could get all the children and parents matched up properly. g


I've been matched with a fashion-manic. DD#1 (started middle school Thursday)
is big into developing her "look" Personally, I'm a 'comfort over all' type.
Given a choice I'd wear jeans or sweats all the time. I don't wear make up at
all and, while I don't think it is at all appropriate for middle school,
clearly she's going to be allowed to wear it at some point, and is going to
need some guidance from someone besides her classmates. I've been considering
asking one of my friends to mentor her.

-Marjorie

LOL! I have the mix, but not a dancer in the bunch! 14yodd is into
softball, volleyball, her clarinet and swimming.
13yodd enjoys soccer and running but her "love" is anything artsy. She is
very artistic which I love, and am somewhat envious bc I have no talent
whatsoever. My 6yo loves music, singing, etc. but there is no grace. I was
blessed with my girls all of them way more athletically inclined than I was,
and not a cheerleader amongst them.

--
As Always,
Anji


"Jayne Kulikauskas" wrote in message
...

"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
...

[]
I wanted soccer and tennis players, I got a dancer and an equestrian.
I thought well, maybe tap, I can do tap with them...they went for
jazz and hip hop. I thought dressage, yes dressage looks lovely,
she went for jumping.[]

I think that this sort of thing happens a lot and I've thinking about what
to do about it. Clearly what is neded is a child exchange website. Then
we
could get all the children and parents matched up properly. g

Jayne

Middle school is where it starts I think. I am not a make up wearer myself,
I hated that the girls were begging for it, and also did not like to see how
some of the kids at her school were way tooooo over done. What we agreed on
is that upon entering middle school (6th grade) we bought mascara and
lipstick. Any makeup such as eyeshadow or liner seen being "sneaked" would
result in the loss of everything. The 14th birthday is the big day. At 14
they receive full makeup, a professional (at the mall) makeover with
instructions on how to correctly apply without overdoing it. I have seen
Lenee go to her friends and give them "pointers". It always makes me smile.
Now if only we could come to a compromise on the clothing issues... UGH!

--
As Always,
Anji


"MarjiG" wrote in message
...
In article , "Jayne
Kulikauskas"
writes:


I think that this sort of thing happens a lot and I've thinking about
what
to do about it. Clearly what is neded is a child exchange website. Then
we
could get all the children and parents matched up properly. g


I've been matched with a fashion-manic. DD#1 (started middle school
Thursday)
is big into developing her "look" Personally, I'm a 'comfort over all'
type.
Given a choice I'd wear jeans or sweats all the time. I don't wear make
up at
all and, while I don't think it is at all appropriate for middle school,
clearly she's going to be allowed to wear it at some point, and is going
to
need some guidance from someone besides her classmates. I've been
considering
asking one of my friends to mentor her.

-Marjorie

In article k.net, "Labra
Thoren" writes:

The 14th birthday is the big day. At 14
they receive full makeup, a professional (at the mall) makeover with
instructions on how to correctly apply without overdoing it. I have seen
Lenee go to her friends and give them "pointers". It always makes me smile.
Now if only we could come to a compromise on the clothing issues...

Clothing we're doing reasonably ok on. She has a budget for clothes, that must
last the year, and she knows that if she buys something that I don't approve of
the money is still spent. We have a consignment store near us that caters to
teens, so she can get the brands she wants, without paying a fortune.

I like your system for makeup. My ages might be different, but you've got a
good system. Let me ask this, does what grade they are in at age 14 matter?
One of mine will be starting 8th grade when she turns 14, the other finishing
9th.

-Marjorie