CHALLENGES TO KANE AND RON THEY IGNORED

On Jan 30, 12:44 pm, "0:-" wrote:
Let's start by cleaning up that lie in the subject line.

Ron has ignored nothing that you can prove. He stated he would not
debate these issues. Simple as that. So your subject is a lie. Nice way
to start a debate.

Secondly, I have ignored nothing on this subject. I have refused to
debate, at times, on YOUR terms, when they are bogus.

For instance in this post you argue something other than the subject
that originally was the issue. And something I did not argue about at all.

From it you make a claim that goes in another direction entirely. The
Segueing Strawman.

We are as yet still debating the claim of Doan that Black children have
a different response to spanking than white children. This study says
absolutely otherwise.

Let's move on.





krp wrote:

"0:-" mailto ...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:

1. SAC DOLLS.

2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative
research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian
children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.

Please provide the support for that claim Kane.

You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...-3737.2002.000...
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2002..00....

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ....

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the */_relation between spanking and behavior problems_/*.

Now instead of sticking to the subject of our argument, and to that of
this study, you will try to build into a new argument.

I will stay with the current one and ask this question of your
HIGHLIGHT. (Feel free to use caps to highlight as many readers loose the
formatting codes when going to "reply" attributions...for now your
highlights are bracketed by * *):

What has this to do with the one group, African American children and
not the others?

The end statement says that all responded the same, as in the pattern
held for all three.

Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their */_children's behavior problems_/*.

Again, where is the African American group mentioned separately?

Maternal emotional

support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking */_predicted an increase in the
level of problem behavior over time,_/*

Do you see those first words in the paragraph?

Do you understand their relationship to the rest of the sentence and the
paragraph, this one, in which they appear?

Each, that is ALL three, groups shows that spanking resulted in an
increase in problem behavior over time...this by the way supports my
contention this was indeed a longitudinal study.

controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. *_Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior_*.

For AA children only, or for all three groups?

*_Spanking was associated with an increase in behavior problems
over time in the context of low levels

of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support._*

Which separate group mentioned is being shown to have these associations
and outcomes? Is it not all three?

If you think not, show your analysis of the statement. And where it says
or even leads one to think, African American children were different
from the others.

This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

I believe you should have highlighted the above sentence, as no matter
which portion of the paragraph, the immediately preceding phrase, the
entire immediately preceding sentence, or the entire paragraph up to
that point, it does not separate out any child group by race-ethnicity.

If you understanding is that African American children showed some
different pattern, then why would the closing sentence say, "This
pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups?"

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, */_spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time_/*,

My same question still holds. Each of the three, Ken. meaning ALL.

controlling for

income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. */_Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior_/*.

Again my point stands as to the AA group NOT being singled out.

*/_Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support._/*

Again, where does this apply to one group and not the others out of the
set of racial-ethnic groups...the subject of the paragraph, and ....

... the subject of the next sentence. Precisely because it says so.

This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "*/relation/*" between spanking and
*BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS* -

I most certainly does. For which group? Is it not all, just as the
words "each of the three" denotes?

BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of

emotional support from parents.

Do you have a problem with that not identifying any one of the three
from the full set is singled out?

*As usual the significance of that

factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.*

And the significance to the issue under discussion until you replaced it
with straw, of one group differing in response to the others, spanked AA
children being less prone to misbehave than say "white" children would be?

Read the paragraph for understanding, not with the intent to cherry pick
and start a debate on an issue not in debate on this subject.

**
* Now back to the /PROOF/ that spanking IN AND _EXCLUSIVELY OF
ITSELF_ "/_CAUSES_/" aggression in Children????*

So you are saying this paragraph you just highlighted in some way
disproves that spanking increases misbehavior?

It doesn't say that.

And in fact, at this point I'm wondering just what you were trying to argue?

Doan's claim as to there being studies that shows AA children do respond
differently, or that spanking isn't followed by more aggression in the
tested populations?

Do AA children (putting aside racial-ethnic comparisons) exhibit a
reduction in aggression when they are spanked?

Are unspanked AA children shown to exhibit aggression more if they are
not spanked?

Do they, if non-spanked, develop sociopathy?

No questions have been answered here except ONE. And it's the one I did
not, as you lie in your subject field, ignore.

That AA children respond differently to the children of other races is
not proven.

Now if you'd like to move on to some of those many studies Doan has and
discuss the actual subject, hey, I'm right here.
...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL!

AF

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, krp wrote:


"0:-" wrote in message ...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:

1. SAC DOLLS.

2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.


Please provide the support for that claim Kane.

You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4–5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.

Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4–5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."

Doan

Now back to the PROOF that spanking IN AND EXCLUSIVELY OF ITSELF "CAUSES" aggression in Children????

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, krp wrote:

"0:-" wrote in message ...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.

Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."

Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

Show where it didn't.

Go back and take a high school writing course. They will tell you that
the last sentence in a paragraph supports and explains the paragraph, in
good writing.

The writing was good. The statement that, "This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups," also applies to "Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support."

Isolating one phrase and claiming the conclusion applied only to it is
contextual corruption, and since I'm sure you know better, I have to
concluded you are deliberately misleading...that's lying.

Show how it would not.

Kane



Doan

Now back to the PROOF that spanking IN AND EXCLUSIVELY OF ITSELF "CAUSES" aggression in Children????

"Doan" wrote in message
...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine till
you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:

1. SAC DOLLS.

2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative research
that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian children
all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.


Please provide the support for that claim Kane.

You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.

Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of emotional
support from parents. As usual the significance of that factor reaches
escape velocity from the planet Kane.


But Kane said it's BOTH: "The pattern held, high or low emotional
support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."

Well one day Kane claims it is both. On another post it's correlation,
and yet in another is is causation. Trying to get him to be consistent is
more difficult than nailing jello to the cieling.


Now back to the PROOF that spanking IN AND EXCLUSIVELY OF ITSELF
"CAUSES" aggression in Children????

He still doesn't understand why his sources fail.

"Ron" wrote in message ...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:

1. SAC DOLLS.

2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.


Please provide the support for that claim Kane.

You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4–5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.

Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4–5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

Now back to the PROOF that spanking IN AND EXCLUSIVELY OF ITSELF "CAUSES" aggression in Children????


He never said that dimwit. YOU did.


Ron - "SPANKING LEADS TO AGGRESSION" is a statement that it CAUSES the aggression. If he wasn't TRYING (and failing) to make that claim, why use the source?

Funny how those newsgroup addies will slip away from yah, idnit?
0;}

krp wrote:
"0:-" wrote in message
oups.com...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative research
that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian children
all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.
I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.
Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...-3737.2002.000...
Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...
Note.
"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..
Okay.

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...
Note.
"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
I don't see those parts highlighted that you mentioned you were going
to do.
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -
Okay. Did you note me making other claims?

GROAN

Ask for help when you've fallen, Ken.

The issue is "SPANKING CAUSES AGGRESSION IN KIDS" or it is THE cause
for "BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS" in kids.

Really? The study wasn't about that. And we are looking at that study
together. It said that they found that children that were spanked showed
more aggression.

I thought the issue was, until you moved the goal posts, the issue of
those children that are spanked showing more aggression regardless of
the cultural acceptance level of their culture.

To which, I believe, Doan contributed that he knew of many studies that
shows Black children that are spanked do not.

So far, he's come up with one he actually couldn't defend because the
article
citing a study misrepresented the study, leaving out their caveat (which
is most decidedly NOT in this study) that they found "may be" there was
a connect to black children having 'less' aggression compared to white
children.

Do you understand the significance of that?

Comparisons showing more aggression but NOT as MUCH as another group,
incidentally happens to prove my point. They all found an increase in
aggression..

Just less for black children in that one study with a "may be" qualifier.

This study said that all conditions being the same for the entire
demographic, race differences the only one, the pattern was consistent
whatever the same conditions were.

Even when they were different they were different for all.

It's in the first sentence where they establish that all are subjected
to the same conditions:

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support."

Pretty plain isn't it?

See anything there Doan or you can hang your hats on? Something that
proves AA children have either less, or no increase right along with the
other kids?

And in the last sentence.

The piece about the , but not in the context....IS FOR ALL THE CHILDREN,
not just AA children.

Is that not right Ken?

You seem to want proof.

Tell you what, you can take YOUR standards of proof, OR MINE, and apply
them to your claim and show us the outcomes you have claimed.

I'm still waiting and your surreptitious snipping of my repeated request
doesn't go unnoticed by other posters. They are laughing at you, but
rather than add any MORE handicap by appearing to attack you, I've asked
them to withhold comments until this is over.

I have a hunch you will now be motivated to even greater heights of lies
and other folderol to put off that ending.

It's like putting off going to the dentist, AND EATING TOO HOT AN TOO
COLD foods and drink, Ken.

The sooner you get it over with, the less pain, and sooner and end to pain.

You both have fallen on your asses.

Or are you afraid to be seen walking away?

It's not the end of the world you know.

And I'll forget you soon enough and stop laughing at you publicly...and
frankly, as others know that have seen it happen, when an opponent of
mine, unlike Doan does with his gloating over admission of a mistake,
owns up to his mistake I am very generous and uncritical..but not if he
won't own up.

Doan's an unethical thug. I'm not.

You have to decide what you are.

Or you can run from that too.

This study finds that all three ethnicities of children have the same
response to spanking. The all, whether up or down, respond to spanking
by increasing misbehavior, unless emotional support is high.

They all, when spanked, go down, or do not go up in misbehavior with
high emotional support, and they all, when spanked, go UP in misbehavior
with the lack of of that support.

You have failed to show otherwise.

And you have both now resorted to Doan's oldest ploy, your opponent is
"stupid" because he doesn't see something..something YOU have failed to
prove the study says.

That's the old, "Case closed, I won" child in the school yard who just
struck out, ploy.

And you both look silly as hell trying to pull that off.

And worse, both of you against ONE of me, trying to claim victory, both
of you, that is not yours.

Damned humorous.

Learn a little humility, Ken.

Even knowing that Doan will milk an error with claims of lies for years
and years, I still own mine when I see I have made them.

While you two assholes don't respect that, I'm sure those I respect here
to respect me for it.

That makes YOU, Ken, and Doan, cowards.

How sad for you. 0,[

AnneF- wrote:
On Jan 30, 12:44 pm, "0:-" wrote:
Let's start by cleaning up that lie in the subject line.

Ron has ignored nothing that you can prove. He stated he would not
debate these issues. Simple as that. So your subject is a lie. Nice way
to start a debate.

Secondly, I have ignored nothing on this subject. I have refused to
debate, at times, on YOUR terms, when they are bogus.

For instance in this post you argue something other than the subject
that originally was the issue. And something I did not argue about at all.

From it you make a claim that goes in another direction entirely. The
Segueing Strawman.

We are as yet still debating the claim of Doan that Black children have
a different response to spanking than white children. This study says
absolutely otherwise.

Let's move on.





krp wrote:

"0:-" mailto ...
I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine
till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative
research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian
children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.
I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.
Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...-3737.2002.000...
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2002..00....
Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ....
Note.
"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the */_relation between spanking and behavior problems_/*.
Now instead of sticking to the subject of our argument, and to that of
this study, you will try to build into a new argument.

I will stay with the current one and ask this question of your
HIGHLIGHT. (Feel free to use caps to highlight as many readers loose the
formatting codes when going to "reply" attributions...for now your
highlights are bracketed by * *):

What has this to do with the one group, African American children and
not the others?

The end statement says that all responded the same, as in the pattern
held for all three.

Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their */_children's behavior problems_/*.
Again, where is the African American group mentioned separately?

Maternal emotional

support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking */_predicted an increase in the
level of problem behavior over time,_/*
Do you see those first words in the paragraph?

Do you understand their relationship to the rest of the sentence and the
paragraph, this one, in which they appear?

Each, that is ALL three, groups shows that spanking resulted in an
increase in problem behavior over time...this by the way supports my
contention this was indeed a longitudinal study.

controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. *_Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior_*.
For AA children only, or for all three groups?

*_Spanking was associated with an increase in behavior problems
over time in the context of low levels

of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support._*
Which separate group mentioned is being shown to have these associations
and outcomes? Is it not all three?

If you think not, show your analysis of the statement. And where it says
or even leads one to think, African American children were different
from the others.

This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

I believe you should have highlighted the above sentence, as no matter
which portion of the paragraph, the immediately preceding phrase, the
entire immediately preceding sentence, or the entire paragraph up to
that point, it does not separate out any child group by race-ethnicity.

If you understanding is that African American children showed some
different pattern, then why would the closing sentence say, "This
pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups?"

Note.
"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, */_spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time_/*,
My same question still holds. Each of the three, Ken. meaning ALL.

controlling for

income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. */_Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior_/*.
Again my point stands as to the AA group NOT being singled out.

*/_Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support._/*
Again, where does this apply to one group and not the others out of the
set of racial-ethnic groups...the subject of the paragraph, and ....

... the subject of the next sentence. Precisely because it says so.

This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "*/relation/*" between spanking and
*BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS* -
I most certainly does. For which group? Is it not all, just as the
words "each of the three" denotes?

BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of

emotional support from parents.
Do you have a problem with that not identifying any one of the three
from the full set is singled out?

*As usual the significance of that

factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.*
And the significance to the issue under discussion until you replaced it
with straw, of one group differing in response to the others, spanked AA
children being less prone to misbehave than say "white" children would be?

Read the paragraph for understanding, not with the intent to cherry pick
and start a debate on an issue not in debate on this subject.

**
* Now back to the /PROOF/ that spanking IN AND _EXCLUSIVELY OF
ITSELF_ "/_CAUSES_/" aggression in Children????*
So you are saying this paragraph you just highlighted in some way
disproves that spanking increases misbehavior?

It doesn't say that.

And in fact, at this point I'm wondering just what you were trying to argue?

Doan's claim as to there being studies that shows AA children do respond
differently, or that spanking isn't followed by more aggression in the
tested populations?

Do AA children (putting aside racial-ethnic comparisons) exhibit a
reduction in aggression when they are spanked?

Are unspanked AA children shown to exhibit aggression more if they are
not spanked?

Do they, if non-spanked, develop sociopathy?

No questions have been answered here except ONE. And it's the one I did
not, as you lie in your subject field, ignore.

That AA children respond differently to the children of other races is
not proven.

Now if you'd like to move on to some of those many studies Doan has and
discuss the actual subject, hey, I'm right here.
...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL!

AF

In other words, you lost.

Are you now threating Ann Fisher, Don Fisher's wife?

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, krp wrote:

"0:-" wrote in message ...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.

Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."

Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.

Doan

Go back and take a high school writing course. They will tell you that
the last sentence in a paragraph supports and explains the paragraph, in
good writing.

The writing was good. The statement that, "This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups," also applies to "Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support."

Isolating one phrase and claiming the conclusion applied only to it is
contextual corruption, and since I'm sure you know better, I have to
concluded you are deliberately misleading...that's lying.

Show how it would not.

Kane



Doan

Now back to the PROOF that spanking IN AND EXCLUSIVELY OF ITSELF "CAUSES" aggression in Children????

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, krp wrote:

"0:-" wrote in message ...

I remember. I want you to prove your claim. I won't prove mine till you prove JUST ONE of your original claims.
Pick either:
1. SAC DOLLS.
2. Spanking CAUSES kids to become aggressive.
You missed my piece with citation by report of authoritative research that
indeed showed that African American, Hispanic, and Caucasian children all
showed similar increases in aggression after spanking.

I've made my claim.
Please provide the support for that claim Kane.
You've been watching it in this thread.

Thought I needed a little exercise to keep me from bearing down on you
thugs, did you?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...urnalCode=jomf

Journal of Marriage and Family
Volume 64 Issue 1 Page 40 - February 2002
Abstract
Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."

Feel free to access the source. Address the researchers with your
concerns if you have any.
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant parts..

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039 European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems. Children
were 4?5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988, 1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...

Note.

"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS - BUT Kane - only in cases of low levels of emotional support from parents. As usual the significance of that factor reaches escape velocity from the planet Kane.

But Kane said it's BOTH:
"The pattern held, high or low emotional support, for all 3, Doan."

When the study specifically said "NOT in the context of high levels of
emotion support."
Doan, it said THAT held to the pattern for all groups.

What pattern, Kane?

All reactions to spanking, whether more or less misbehavior, whether
more or less emotional support. Including where the outcomes were not in
the context of high levels of emotional support.

That's an item in the pattern.

In fact, you a take any part of the paragraph and apply it the same way.

Show where it didn't.

The place where it said *NOT*.

Why would the sentence right afterward say that "this pattern" which
would include the not in the context of high emotional support
statement, not apply to it?

The "not" statement applies to the pattern that held.

What wording indicates that the NOT doesn't apply as part of the pattern?

And were would it apply or not apply to only one of the set, the African
American children, and not the others?

Be specific please. Your answer was not an explanation. Explain how you
come to the conclusion that any part or the whole would support your
claim that AA children either don't increase aggression with spanking or
don't increase it as much and the other children DO.

Your claim is, is it not, that the cultural difference makes the AA
children respond differently than other race-ethic groups of children?

Or are you saying that now you wish to abandon your claim and try for
something else?

Here is your claim, quoted in full:

"And studies after studies have shown that spanking, at least for
African-American, do not correlate with bad outcomes."

The study we are looking at shows that the outcomes, good or bad, are
the same for all three ethnic groups in the targeted demographic.

And I've looked at your postings of 'studies after studies" and not only
are no plurality of them to speak of they are based mostly on others
work, not original work.

Here's an interesting draft of commentary by Straus on his review of
research, and I draw your attention to Figure 7, a chart of African
American children and Euro American children that confounds your claim
of what Gunnoe and Marriner actually DID find.

Straus' comment one why it appeared that AA children showed a drop in
misbehavior after spanking turns out to be a drop comparatively, as
there are NO minus findings on the aggression line at all, for either
group.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP47.pdf

He comment that accompanies the chart in figure 7:

Figure 7. Change in antisocial behavior from 1988 TO 1990 by spanking in
1988 (children 6-9)
Gunnoe and Mariner’s findings on the relation of CP to Antisocial
Behavior show that the more CP experienced by in Year 1, the higher the
level of Antisocial Behavior five years later. Moreover, they found that
the harmful effect of CP applies to all the categories of children they
studied - that is, to children in each age group, to all races, and to
both boys and girls.

Thus, both of these major long term prospective studies resuited[sic] in
evidence that, although CP may work in the short run, in the long run it
tends to boomerang and make things worse.


Doan

Yes, you are that.





Go back and take a high school writing course. They will tell you that
the last sentence in a paragraph supports and explains the paragraph, in
good writing.

The writing was good. The statement that, "This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups," also applies to "Spanking was associated with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of emotional
support."

Isolating one phrase and claiming the conclusion applied only to it is
contextual corruption, and since I'm sure you know better, I have to
concluded you are deliberately misleading...that's lying.

Show how it would not.

Kane


Doan

Now back to the PROOF that spanking IN AND EXCLUSIVELY OF ITSELF "CAUSES" aggression in Children????

"0:-" wrote in message
news:f8OdnePrG5osZCLYnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@scnresearch. com...

Funny how those newsgroup addies will slip away from yah, idnit?
0;}

Huh?

QUOTE AND EMPHASIS SNIPPED
Okay now I am going to REQUOTE the abstract and HIGHLIGHT the relevant
parts..
Okay.

Using data collected over a 6-year period on a sample of 1,039
European
American children, 550 African American children, and 401 Hispanic
children from the children of the National Longitudinal Survey of
Youth,
this study assessed whether maternal emotional support of the child
moderates the relation between spanking and behavior problems.
Children
were 4-5 years of age in the first of 4 waves of data used (1988,
1990,
1992, 1994). At each wave, mothers reported their use of spanking and
rated their children's behavior problems. Maternal emotional support
of
the child was based on interviewer observations conducted as part of
the
Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment. *** For each of
the
3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an increase in the level of
problem behavior over time, controlling for income-needs ratio and
maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support moderated the
link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was associated
with
an increase in behavior problems over time in the context of low
levels
of emotional support, but not in the context of high levels of
emotional
support. This pattern held for all 3 racial-ethnic groups. ...
Note.
"For each of the 3 racial-ethnic groups, spanking predicted an
increase
in the level of problem behavior over time, controlling for
income-needs
ratio and maternal emotional support. Maternal emotional support
moderated the link between spanking and problem behavior. Spanking was
associated with an increase in behavior problems over time in the
context of low levels of emotional support, but not in the context of
high levels of emotional support. This pattern held for all 3
racial-ethnic groups."
I don't see those parts highlighted that you mentioned you were going
to do.
The article suggests there is a "relation" between spanking and
BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -
Okay. Did you note me making other claims?

GROAN

Ask for help when you've fallen, Ken.

Oh ****, is this the "CORELATIUON AND CAUSATION" are the same thing
argument again Kane?

The issue is "SPANKING CAUSES AGGRESSION IN KIDS" or it is THE cause
for "BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS" in kids.

Really? The study wasn't about that. And we are looking at that study
together. It said that they found that children that were spanked showed
more aggression.

Kane the ORIGINAL claim was that SPANKING CAUSES AGGRESSION IN KIDS!
That was the SUBJECT HEADER!
Now it isn't. I find it interesting trying to figure out just exactly WHAT
the hell you are claiming. It keeps changing. EVERY DAY!

Kane you remind me of the little groundhog game in the Chuckee Cheese
pizza places. You put your quarter in and take the padded mallet and when
the groundhog sticks his head up you whack it down and then it pops up in
another hole, and this goes on until your quarter is used up. I have LOVED
the debate with you on both spanking and the SAC Dolls. You have managed to
take EVERY frigging side of both issues more than once and some sides I
didn't know existed.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to resolve any debate with you because you will NEVER keep
the same side for two posts in a row. That's your debate style.

Either the SAC Dolls are accurate indicators of abuse or they are not. I
say not. You say they are, they aren't, and they MIGHT be but the jury is
out etc etc etc etc.. On Spanking you have NO clue as to what correlation is
or causation. You have a unique inability to understand that the statement
"Spanking LEADS TO aggression in Children" is a declarative sentence ONLY in
causation. It means "spanking CAUSES aggression in children." It is NOT and
not matter how you beat the walls mean it is a correlative statement. That
would be "aggression in child is related to spanking." or "It appears there
is some relation between spanking and aggression in children."

That's before we even GET TO the rest of the premise of that article.
With you we play "FUZZY DEFINITIONS" of Planet Kane!