The Not-So-Crackpot Autism Theory

"Majusmaximum" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Er...it's me again! you stated that vaccines are safe and effective. Not
so fast. A woman of my acquaintance had her baby vaccinated, all
proper-like and on schedule.This was about 17 yr. ago. The child had bad
reaction and died soon after. Well, this mother, not being anybody's
fool, would not hold still for SIDS being declared the official cause of
death.

Where did she get her degree in forensic pathology? Otherwise, her opinion
is nothing more than "I gotta blame someone." Sadly, there are those
parasites who milk a grieving persons need to blame someone.

She insisted that the various medical authorities involved look
into this more deeply, and ultimately, they changed the death certificate
to read that death was caused by "adverse reaction to vaccination." And
don't start with your "Where's the evidence?" Talk to the coroner.

Was the coroner also a medical examiner, as in having a degree and training
in forensic pathology, or is it one who is a lay individual who is serving
as a coroner? That makes a big difference. I deal with both.

I felt that you brushed off the matter of lobotomy a bit too fast. It
didn't just stop there. If I remember right, some doc called Freeman set
up a travelling lobotomy practice, cutting up people's brains left &
right.

Wrong direction. Lobotomies are frontal, not left and right.

Not one doctor, anywhere, has to my knowledge,

After reading your many posts, and failing to ever see a reference like you
have been asked for, I do not raise your knowledge to that of anything more
that "mere opinion."

ever said, "Boy we
sure can be a bunch of fools! So sorry to have hurt people so badly! We
will be more careful in the future!" Whatever the latest study-supported
practice may be, most of the population just goes along. The doctors
****, and the public slides.

I see where this is going...

"texasmedstudent" wrote in message
lkabouthealthnetwork.com...
I haven't been totally keeping up with these posts, but just as a note
from
a passerby reader...

California has banned vaccines that contain mercury

Any time a legislature gets involved, you have a political decision which is
not necessarily based on sound scientific principles.

and has instituted the
use of other formulations for those vaccines.... why can't the rest of the
US do that?

Check the CDC site and note that all childhood vaccines are available
without Thimerosal. The FDA urged that it be removed since the anti-vac
scaremongers were so voiciferous that the FDA was concerned that there would
be s sufficient number of gullible people who would not vaccinate, thus
affecting herd immunity. This is what happened in Great Britain, and now the
14-24 years olds are paying the price of this. I would not heistate for a
nanosecond to repeat every vaccination that my children had.

Now, take a moment, step back, and ask yourself why the anti-vac liars are
still promoting the idea that there is Thimerosal in vaccines? I refer to it
as retrograde ratification. They have been shown to be wrong regarding
Thimerosal and MMR but still howl over it.

Some of their experts are so disingenuous that they still make scary
statements that Thimerosal is 50% mercury. It is, by atomic weight, but,
since you are a med student, I assume that you fully understand the basic
fallacy of that statement in the context of the controversy.

Yeah, yeah, California is wacky and hippy and what not, but
C'mon, if it can be done, and it would at the very least eliminate the
controversy over the mercury-autism connection AND keep us from getting
very dangerous chemicals injected into us at very young ages, why not just
start using those vaccines universally?

Firstly, it is not a very dangerous chemical. It is cleared incredibly
rapidly. In fact, one investigation was nearly blkown as the researchers did
not account for how fast it is cleared.

Secondly, as I said, Thimerosal vaccines are fully available in the US (and
some other countries), and their availability is expanding world wide.

Thirdly, you fully underestimate the evil of the anti-vac liars. NOTHING
will stop their efforts to end vaccination.

anyhow, that's my two cents.

Want change?

Thirdly, you fully underestimate the evil of the anti-vac liars. NOTHING
will stop their efforts to end vaccination.

Anti-mercury does not egual anti-vaccine. what it is is pro-safer vaccine.
I understand that people will use the mercury argument to try and stop
vaccines, but for those people: THIMEROSAL FREE VACCINATION AVAILABLE IN
ALL KINDS FROM DTaP to Anthrax!! DON'T GET ME SICK JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE
WILLING TO BE. HERD IMMUNITY ONLY WORKS IF WE ALL WORK TOGETHER. GET THE
MERCURY FREE VACCINES AVAILABLE AT YOUR LOCAL DOCTOR'S OFFICE!

I'm a med student for crying out loud, of course i know the importance of
vaccination, I have to get WAY more than you will ever have to just
because of the nature of working in a hospital. There's a reason why we
invented vaccines in the first place, to try and prevent unneccessary
suffering and illness. They're a good thing, but we also can't force
people who, for whatever reason sound or not, don't want them to get them.
So we just have to live with it.
--------
Yes, even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees that though the
likelihood of mercury causing problems may be low, it's good to err on the
side of the child, if only as a precautionary measure.... but remember
now, you can get the vaccines without mercury, so get those.

"Majusmaximum" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Er...it's me again! you stated that vaccines are safe and effective. Not
so fast. A woman of my acquaintance had her baby vaccinated, all
proper-like and on schedule.This was about 17 yr. ago.

I knew someone whose baby died 16 years ago even though he was fully
vaccinated. He died from Haemophilus influenzae. The Hib vaccine was
introduced a couple of years after that.

Now the deaths and disabilities from that disease have decreased
dramatically.


The child had bad
reaction and died soon after. Well, this mother, not being anybody's
fool, would not hold still for SIDS being declared the official cause of
death. She insisted that the various medical authorities involved look
into this more deeply, and ultimately, they changed the death certificate
to read that death was caused by "adverse reaction to vaccination." And
don't start with your "Where's the evidence?" Talk to the coroner.

I felt that you brushed off the matter of lobotomy a bit too fast. It
didn't just stop there. If I remember right, some doc called Freeman set
up a travelling lobotomy practice, cutting up people's brains left &
right. Not one doctor, anywhere, has to my knowledge, ever said, "Boy we
sure can be a bunch of fools! So sorry to have hurt people so badly! We
will be more careful in the future!" Whatever the latest study-supported
practice may be, most of the population just goes along. The doctors
****, and the public slides.

HCN, Mark & Jeff:

I thought you made light of my story about the baby who died as a result
of adverse reaction to vaccination. Also, yes, the coroner was the
medical examiner for our large city. He is a proper doctor.

More important. If what you are starting out with is a perfectly normal,
healthy baby, no level of risk is acceptable when injecting vaccines.
Not 1 in a million. I know about the diseases that vaccination is
supposed to prevent, I have done plenty of reading. I preferred to have
my children take their chances with the disease; I have access to medical
help should that eventuality arise. Your herd immunity argument is quite
amazing. Look, if vaccines do what you say, then everybody who is
vaccinated is protected. Doesn't matter what the ratio of vaccinated to
unvaccinated is. Parents who innoculate their kids are a bunch of
suckers. Where is your proof that good-health practices, from conception
onward, NEVER work?

Scurvy is a disease of vitamin C deficiency.
Pellagra and beriberi are defined as diseases caused by certain B-vitamin
deficiency.
Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, flu, etc. - what are these? Why, they're
vaccine-deficiency diseases! Such genius, boys. I'm humbled to be in
your presence.

"Majusmaximum" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
HCN, Mark & Jeff:

I thought you made light of my story about the baby who died as a result
of adverse reaction to vaccination. Also, yes, the coroner was the
medical examiner for our large city. He is a proper doctor.


Excuse me? One anecdote is not quite the evidence we are relying on.

More important. If what you are starting out with is a perfectly normal,
healthy baby, no level of risk is acceptable when injecting vaccines.
Not 1 in a million.

Okay, that is fine. Just remember not to hold the child more that an inch
off the ground, and never drive them in a care.

I know about the diseases that vaccination is
supposed to prevent, I have done plenty of reading. I preferred to have
my children take their chances with the disease;

Even though the odds of death and disability with some diseases are much
higher than 1 in a million? Like 1 in 1000 down to 1 in 20 chances that the
actual disease will cause death or disability. Here is some reading for
you: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/0764554239/

I have access to medical
help should that eventuality arise.

But will it always help? Even with quick medical intervention tetanus is
still often fatal, and that is a bacterial disease. Medical help may not
help you with any viral infections.

Your herd immunity argument is quite
amazing. Look, if vaccines do what you say, then everybody who is
vaccinated is protected.

NO one has ever said that. It has always been acknowledged that vaccines do
not impart 100% immunity. This:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/..._pink_full.htm gives detailed
information on the diseases and the vaccines, including the fact that they
do NOT impart immunity in everyone. Sometime vaccines do not work on some
people -- that is a known fact.

Doesn't matter what the ratio of vaccinated to
unvaccinated is. Parents who innoculate their kids are a bunch of
suckers.

Why?

Where is your proof that good-health practices, from conception
onward, NEVER work?

Well, there is no such thing... especially since part of good health
practices is to have all your vaccinations up to date.

But, if you actually read some history you will find that there are those
who practiced what you defined as "good health practices", but still
suffered when hit by certain viruses. Do you think Roald Dahl and Patricia
Neal lived in a dirty unhealthy house when their oldest daughter caught
measles? Why don't you find out what happened to that child.


Scurvy is a disease of vitamin C deficiency.
Pellagra and beriberi are defined as diseases caused by certain B-vitamin
deficiency.

And dehydration is a fluid dificiencty. So what? There are also other
diseases that have to do with parts of the body not working well, like
diabetes.


Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, flu, etc. - what are these? Why, they're
vaccine-deficiency diseases!

Actually, they are caused by different viruses. The Hib is caused by a
bacteria. If you read _Plagues and People_ by McNeill:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/0385121229/ ... you will get a
better understanding on the genesis of the diseases.

The vaccines are to teach your body how to recognize and fight off the
infections.

Such genius, boys. I'm humbled to be in
your presence.

"Majusmaximum" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
HCN, Mark & Jeff:

I thought you made light of my story about the baby who died as a result
of adverse reaction to vaccination. Also, yes, the coroner was the
medical examiner for our large city. He is a proper doctor.

More important. If what you are starting out with is a perfectly normal,
healthy baby, no level of risk is acceptable when injecting vaccines.
Not 1 in a million. I know about the diseases that vaccination is
supposed to prevent, I have done plenty of reading. I preferred to have
my children take their chances with the disease; I have access to medical
help should that eventuality arise.

How about access to what funeral directors call "after-care." The fact is
that good medical care can't prevent all deaths from diseases that are
preventable with vaccines. Something like 1 in 1000 kids who get measles die
and another 1 of out 1000 get get premenant brain damage.

There is no doubt that there is a small risk from vaccines, but the risk
from the illnesses is much greater.

Your herd immunity argument is quite
amazing. Look, if vaccines do what you say, then everybody who is
vaccinated is protected.

Wrong. Vaccines make people less susceptable than people who aren't
vaccinated. For example, some people who have had chicken-pox vaccine still
get chicken-pox, although they are less likely to get chicken pox, and when
they do, the illness is almost always very mild.

And in a small portion of people, the vaccine doesn't work at all.

Doesn't matter what the ratio of vaccinated to
unvaccinated is.

Actually, it does. If all the kids were vaccinated against an illness, and
someone comes into the community with the illness, the odds that another
child will get the illness is very small. But, if the kids in the community
are not vaccinated, that one case might turn into a local epidemic. If only
one kid were vaccinated, he would still be at risk of getting the illness,
although the risk will be much less than his/her peers who were not
vaccinated.

Parents who innoculate their kids are a bunch of
suckers.

No, these parents are a bunch of people who are helping to keep their kids
healthy.

Where is your proof that good-health practices, from conception
onward, NEVER work?

I don't recall anyone suggesting that good health practices never work. If
I thought they never worked, I wouldn't wash my hands after I flush or when
I get into work.

However, even with excellent hygiene, some diseases will still spread.
Chicken pox is spread through the air. So until good health practices
include wearing a mask which can filter out viruses, good health practices
won't prevent the spread of chicken pox. BTW, children are not good at
hygiene, especially little ones.

Scurvy is a disease of vitamin C deficiency.
Pellagra and beriberi are defined as diseases caused by certain B-vitamin
deficiency.
Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, flu, etc. - what are these?

They are disesase caused by viruses and bacteria.

Why, they're
vaccine-deficiency diseases!

No, they're not. They are disease that can be prevented by vaccines, though.

Jeff

Such genius, boys. I'm humbled to be in
your presence.

"texasmedstudent" wrote in message
lkabouthealthnetwork.com...
Thirdly, you fully underestimate the evil of the anti-vac liars. NOTHING
will stop their efforts to end vaccination.

Anti-mercury does not egual anti-vaccine.

Fopr a few, I would agree. However, since there is absolutely no proof that
Thimerosal is dangerous, then AFAIAC, anti-mercury does equal anti-vac.

what it is is pro-safer vaccine.

Which assumes, incorrectly, that Thimerosdal is dangerous.

I understand that people will use the mercury argument to try and stop
vaccines, but for those people: THIMEROSAL FREE VACCINATION AVAILABLE IN
ALL KINDS FROM DTaP to Anthrax!! DON'T GET ME SICK JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE
WILLING TO BE. HERD IMMUNITY ONLY WORKS IF WE ALL WORK TOGETHER. GET THE
MERCURY FREE VACCINES AVAILABLE AT YOUR LOCAL DOCTOR'S OFFICE!

Sadly, there are those who have been scared off of vaccination by the
anti-vac liars. Your entreaty is falling on deaf ears.

I'm a med student for crying out loud, of course i know the importance of
vaccination, I have to get WAY more than you will ever have to just
because of the nature of working in a hospital. There's a reason why we
invented vaccines in the first place, to try and prevent unneccessary
suffering and illness. They're a good thing, but we also can't force
people who, for whatever reason sound or not, don't want them to get them.
So we just have to live with it.
--------
Yes, even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees that though the
likelihood of mercury causing problems may be low, it's good to err on the
side of the child, if only as a precautionary measure.... but remember
now, you can get the vaccines without mercury, so get those.

This is a fact that the anti-vac liars never seem to mention in any of their
diatribes. Even with this being so, they have other fallacious arguments to
oppose vaccinations, like the soil theory, etc.

"Majusmaximum" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
HCN, Mark & Jeff:

I thought you made light of my story about the baby who died as a result
of adverse reaction to vaccination. Also, yes, the coroner was the
medical examiner for our large city. He is a proper doctor.

I doubt it. If he was a competent medical examiner, he would have reached
the correct cause of death from the beginning. If a vaccine caused the
baby's death, there would have been specific findings on autopsy which would
have suggested it.

You see, I deal with medical examiners all the time. In all the years I have
dealt with those who are trained forensic pathologists, I have found only
one who actually modified his opinion as to the cause and nature of the
death. He had originally found the cause of death to be viral
cardiomyopathy. When I discussed the case with him, I advised him, and he
then independently verified, that the deceased had been exposed to wild
measles virus when his kids had the disease because his family was stupid
enough not to vaccinate. He went back to his lab, checked the tissue
samples, and the cause of death then listed measles.

The only other time I have ever seen a coroner change the cause of death was
in what initially appeared to be a traumatic injury death. In that case, he
was unaware of the deceased's long history of CAD which caused a massive MI
whil ehe was driving a snow mobile. He grabbed the controls, stuck a tree at
high speed and his neck was broken. Only problem was that there were several
significant blood vessels which were severed and they did not significantly
bleed. IOW, he was dead before he hit the tree.

More important. If what you are starting out with is a perfectly normal,
healthy baby, no level of risk is acceptable when injecting vaccines.
Not 1 in a million. I know about the diseases that vaccination is
supposed to prevent, I have done plenty of reading.

Some of us have done plenty of seeing. I saw one friend leave the third
grade in June, and he did not come back in September. That iron lung just
would not fit through the door.

I preferred to have
my children take their chances with the disease; I have access to medical
help should that eventuality arise.

Sometimes, medical help is too late when the disease starts. If you think
diferently, please list all the cureable viral deases which are vaccine
preventable.

Your herd immunity argument is quite
amazing.

It is a fact, not argument.

Look, if vaccines do what you say, then everybody who is
vaccinated is protected.

Wrong. The only people who ever claim that vaccines are 100% effective are
stupid anti-vac liars, and those who cannot see through their bogus
argument. No doctor would ever make such claim.

Doesn't matter what the ratio of vaccinated to
unvaccinated is.

It absolutely does. There is a massive outbreak of mumps in Great Britain
where those males who are post puberty are being seriously infected. Do I
need to tell you the signifcant complication of this?

Parents who innoculate their kids are a bunch of
suckers. Where is your proof that good-health practices, from conception
onward, NEVER work?

It may work, but, history says that vaccination and good health practices
work far better.

And, BTW, the proper term for people who do not vaccinate their children is
"Child Abuser" since this is such a seriuous form of neglect that it is
abuse.

Have a nice, day. I hope you never have to bury a child or see one confined
to a wheelchair.

"Majusmaximum" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...

Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, flu, etc. - what are these? Why, they're
vaccine-deficiency diseases! Such genius, boys. I'm humbled to be in
your presence.

If any of your children become ill with a vaccine preventable disease,
please refer to it as "Intelligent Parent Deficiency Syndrome."