MMR vaccine quotes

In article , john wrote:

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...

See, this is why you need to read the papers I linked to. I provided
ample evidence which disproves your concepts, and yet you completely
failed to even try to counter what I posted.

********. You can't disprove the fact deaths ahd declined by 99.4% before
vax, or the fact vitamin C cures it and makes vax unecessary.

The vitamin C thing is nonsense; the 99.4% statistic you so love
ignores that measles was still killing several hundred people, mostly
children, in the US every year before vaccination.

And YOU can't disprove that measles cases plummetted after vaccination
was introduced, and is now at about 0.1% of the levels it had before
vaccination.

or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Measles kills too. john doesn't believe that -- or when it happens,
he blames it on doctors.

or the fact all your fancy studies showing it is safe are all flawed.

And I should believe that because you say so? I don't think so.

Instead you posted the usually, uncited BS you're known for. You want to
know why no one takes you seriously? It's simple; you fail every time your
challenged to support your claims and ignore any and all evidence to the
contrary.

That sums you up, and all vaccine advocates. Measles deaths ahd declined by
99.4% before vax which completely invalidates vaccination.

You're a broken record, john -- one who can never explain why nobody
gets measles any more, so nobody dies of it.

Secondly Vitamin C therapy makes all vaccination unecessary, which would
eliminate all MMR injury (like the daeths above) of which autism is only a
part.

As proven in clinical practice by Dr K, Dr Klenner, and Dr levy MD etc
http://www.whale.to/a/doctors_nutr.html

Except that those are very old studies without any sort of proper
randomization or controls.

End of story.

But not in the way you think.

"At your next dinner party, try playing the following game. Challenge
everyone around the table to produce a single drug that can cure people of
an illness, other then antibiotics. If you come up with anything, stop
whatever you are doing and call me."---Lynne McTaggart www.wddty.co.uk

Gee, john, ever time you quote McIdiot like this, someone pops up with
a list of drugs that cure diseases. Accutane, for instance. But you,
being fantastically dense and dim, keep posting the same quote.

quote from major loon Rath removed

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

"David Wright" wrote in message
. net...
In article ,
john wrote:

"HCN" wrote in message
...

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
.... 6) The whole conspiracy thing. Doesn't exactly build up a sense
of
critical and honest thinking, or for that matter, mental stability.

7) All of the material on UFO's, weather control, mind control, the
illuminati, dowsing, free energy, banking, and so forth. Every
conspiracy, pseudo-science, and urban myth, all supported by one page.
But having material like that on your page doesn't exactly lend much
credibility to your stuff.

Poor Bryan is using ad hominem as one of his main arguments. Why am I not
surprised. http://www.whale.to/a/conspiracy.html

I've never noticed john to be averse to using ad hominem or insult.

Allopathy is pseudo-science par excellence

Allopathy : Also known as 'scientific medicine', 'orthodox medicine' and
'modern medicine', is barely about 200 years old.

Nuclear physics is less than 200 years old. No doubt you'll dismiss
that also.

It lays emphasis on drugs.

And surgery. And prevention.

It offers antibiotics, synthetic vitamins, steroids, chemotherapy,
radiation, and immunization all of which are highly dangerous.

Highly dangerous to the incomes of the quacks that john always
champions.

Its diagnostics methods are not foolproof

But better than those of the quacks.

and 95% of surgeries in allopathic hospitals are unnecessary.

A gross exaggeration.

Doctors of modern medicine receive their continuing education from
Medical Representatives of (P)harmaceuticals, and prescribe lethal
drugs based on cuts and commission.

Most doctors do not receive cuts or commissions on the drugs they
prescribe. Especially the generics.

http://www.newstarget.com/z019546.html

These inadequately tested and prescribed drugs create more
diseases.

Quackery fails to treat diseases at all.

Allopathy is a 'pseudo science' which has done more harm to health
and wellbeing of humanity than any other 40 odd systems of healing
described below.

Some of the systems "described below" were absolutely hilarious. Or
at least they would be if there weren't people being treated by them.

A TO Z OF ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE by Dr. Leo Rebello

The fact that something is in a book does not automatically make it
true.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...


********. You can't disprove the fact deaths ahd declined by 99.4%
before vax, or the fact vitamin C cures it and makes vax unecessary.

I disproved both of these statements, using multiple scientific studies to
back it up. As per usual you just ignored the links, and assumed that
because you ignored it that it didn't exist.


You don't need scientific studies to show death statistics, the governments
collect them.

That one stat demolishes measles vax, which is why you have a pathological
inability to see it.

same for vitamin C.

Oh look, John is quoting things he's written himself - again. No evidence
what-so-ever these claims are anything but one of the voices in ?your head;
nor any links to a scientific source which would support the claims made.
Ever heard of outside verification; it's the key to any good argument. . .

Now now, you can't see the measles death stats or how vitamin C cures
measles and other infections.

The Use of Vitamin C as an Antibiotic------FRED R. KLENNER, M.D. 1952
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorba...53-v6-p274.htm
The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with Vitamin C Fred
R. Klenner, M.D. 1949
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorba...11-n7-p209.htm
Virus Pneumonia and Its Treatment With Vitamin C Fred R. Klenner, M.D. 1948
Klenner, F. (July 1954) Case history: cure of a 4-year-old child bitten by a
mature highland moccasin with vitamin C. Tri-State Medical Journal
Klenner, F. (July 1954) Recent discoveries in the treatment of lockjaw with
vitamin C and Tolserol. Tri-State Medical Journal pp. 7-11.
Klenner, F. (November 1955) The role of ascorbic acid in therapeutics.
(Letter to the Editor) Tri-State Medical Journal p. 34.
Klenner, F. (February 1956) A new office procedure for the determination of
plasma levels for ascorbic acid. Tri-State Medical Journal pp. 26-28.
Klenner, F. (September 1956) Poliomyelitis-case histories. Tri-State Medical
Journal pp. 28-31.
Klenner, F. (February I960) Virus encephalitis as a sequela of the
pneumonias. Tri-State Medical Journal pp. 7-11.
Klenner, F. (1971) Observations of the dose and administration of ascorbic
acid when employed beyond the range of a vitamin in human pathology. Journal
of Applied Nutrition 23(3&4):6l-88.
Klenner, F. (1973) Response of peripheral and central nerve pathology to
mega-doses of the vitamin B-complex and other metabolites. Journal of
Applied Nutrition pp. 16-40.
Klenner, F. (1974) Significance of high daily intake of ascorbic acid in
preventive medicine. Journal of the International Academy of Preventive
Medicine l(l):45-69.

and dozens more http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/




or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Also disproved within the links I provided,

Not true. You can see why your links aren't worth the trouble to read.

"Every day that government health officials lie to the people about vaccine
risks is one more day that the public loses a little more trust in what they
are told by government. .....MMR vaccine is known to induce brain
inflammation and death within 8 to 14 days after vaccination......They and
parents like them are standing up and coming forward to witness what has
happened to their babies at the hands of pediatricians who told them that
vaccines, including the MMR vaccine, are absolutely safe. The vaccine
deaths of these babies might have been prevented if George and Anna's
parents had been given full and accurate information about MMR vaccine risk
factors and pediatricians had erred on the side of caution rather than
vaccinate at all costs. The rabid zeal to vaccinate, encouraged by
government health officials, puts many vulnerable children at risk and the
result is the brain damaging and killing of children like George and Anna."
[NVIC June 2006] Babies Die After MMR

AT LEAST 26 families claim their children died as a result of the
controversial measles, mumps and rubella jab, ...In some cases the
Government has awarded parents up to £100,000 under its 1979 Vaccine Damage
Payment Act. In others, post mortem reports concluded the jab was the most
likely cause of death. Despite this, the Department of Health insists no
child has ever died from MMR. http://www.whale.to/v/mmr101.html

MMR vaccine VAERS reports 7 deaths per year (1990-1994):
"From July 1990 thro' April 1994, 5799 ADRs following MMR vaccination were
reported to US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS); including
3063 cases requiring emergency medical treatment, 616 hospitalisations, 309
who did not recover, 54 children left disabled and 30 deaths.

Now what part of this sentence don't you understand? "the Government has
awarded parents up to £100,000 under its 1979 Vaccine Damage Payment Act"


and soon to be disproved yet again:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyand...731d3f9&k=7417

Already falling apart http://www.whale.to/vaccines/fombonne_h.html

and since you can't seem to read any page on whale, I've put some text here
for you:

SafeMinds Aids to Correct Misinformation

A Quebec study to be published in the July 2006 issue of Pediatrics, the
official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, states that it is
"very clear" that there is no relationship between mercury-based thimerosal
in vaccines and the onset of autism. Dr. Eric Fombonne of the McGill
University Health Center bases his opinion on a study among schoolchildren
in Quebec, Canada. According to an analysis by SafeMinds, however, the study
methodology is unlikely to lend itself to such declarative statements and
should be treated with skepticism, for a number of reasons.
The study looked at 27,749 students in grades kindergarten through 12th
grade in a Montreal school district and found 187 cases of autism. The vast
majority of these cases (more than 90%) were born in years in which
thimerosal vaccines were widely used for infants in Quebec, as they were in
the US. Only a tiny fraction of the autism students were born when
thimerosal-free DTP and Hib vaccines were given, and these students may have
been exposed to thimerosal from the Hepatitis B vaccine newly recommended
for infants of foreign born parents, which made up over one fourth of the
greater Montreal population.
Dr. Fombonne wrongfully claims that large-population studies in the United
States, England and Denmark also disprove a link between mercury and autism,
and he states that "there is no autism epidemic." He conveniently ignores
the vast body of scientific evidence that has shown that environmental
factors such as mercury may have caused the increased number of autism
diagnoses in the US and other countries. Dr. Fombonne's actions have not
historically been in the best interest of families with autism-he has
declared himself an expert witness on behalf of various pharmaceutical
companies in thimerosal-related litigation. Thimerosal is a serious poison
that is harmful via inhalation, ingestion or contact with skin. Furthermore,
thimerosal- containing vaccines elevate mercury levels in the body to a
level where adverse neurological outcomes are known to occur. It is
irresponsible for any pediatric doctor to justify injecting our children
with mercury.
The prevalence of all autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) has risen to 1 in 166
children in the past 20 years. Several independent federal agencies and
respected scientists and researchers have received federal funds to
investigate the autism epidemic and the biological plausibility of a link
between mercury and ASDs. Multiple studies have indicated that there is a
connection between childhood vaccines containing thimerosal and the
incidence of autism. No conclusions have been made rejecting a link between
mercury and autism.

and soon to be disproved yet again

Obviously "disproven" isn't exactly the right word to apply to this study or
all the other ones.


etc etc

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...

or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Also disproved within the links I provided, and soon to be disproved yet
again:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyand...731d3f9&k=7417



A letter on your latest junk science study:


The International Cochrane Collaboration confirmed the author of the study
you report on, Eric Fombonne is not qualified to be engaged in this kind of
work.

The last study Eric Fombonne carried out was dismissed as "impossible to
intepret". That was the conclusion of a comprehensive scientific review by
the Cochrane Collaboration. The Cochrane team investigated 5000 medical
papers on the subject and cut them down to only 6 dealing with Eric's pet
topic and those papers were pretty shakey too according to Cochrane.
Regrettably, they had to throw Eric's paper out completely - it was junk.
And if you check the BMJ, you will find an editorial dealing with the
continuing problem of even the supposedly most esteemed medical journals in
the thrall to drug companies publishing junk - Can we tame the monster?
BMJ 2006;333 (8 July)..

This is what the Cochrane Collaboration said in a review of the safety of
MMR about Fombonne's last paper:-

"The number and possible impact of biases in this study is so high that
interpretation of the results is impossible".


That is a pretty damning comment. If you need the .pdf of the paper with it
highlighted - see the attached.

Fombonne is a psychiatrist and that means not a real clinician nor
scientist. Psychiatry is in the most unsuccessful branch of medicine in
history.

Sadly, Eric goes around insisting "There is no scientific evidence that an
association between MMR immunization and autism exists." when there is
plenty of evidence. He just does not seem to want to admit it.

Next time you are going to run a story on one of Eric Fombonne's studies,
how about you put it in the "fiction" section?

Sincerely,

Mr Miller

Bryan Heit wrote:
john wrote:
"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...

See, this is why you need to read the papers I linked to. I provided
ample evidence which disproves your concepts, and yet you completely
failed to even try to counter what I posted.


********. You can't disprove the fact deaths ahd declined by 99.4%
before vax, or the fact vitamin C cures it and makes vax unecessary.

I disproved both of these statements, using multiple scientific studies
to back it up. As per usual you just ignored the links, and assumed
that because you ignored it that it didn't exist.

It's an interesting habit of yours, actually. My god-daughter used to
do that a lot. You know - if she couldn't see it, it didn't exist. She
stopped doing that at about age 6 - which I guess is about where your
brain stopped developing.

Reminds me of the old joke....Which is closer, the moon or Australia?

The moon, because you can see it.

or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by
the fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Also disproved within the links I provided, and soon to be disproved yet
again:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyand...731d3f9&k=7417

I posted the links to the abstract. Fine work.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...act/118/1/e139

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum


Interestingly, and not unexpectedly, the Mercury Militia has attacked
Fombonne in their usual absurd manner. See:

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/index.php?p=392

Fombonne will be testifying in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding on behalf
of the US Department of Justice:

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/OSM/AutismDocket.htm

Take a moment and read the list of experts...


or the fact all your fancy studies showing it is safe are all flawed.

You've got the links, please show us where they are flawed. Oh wait,
you've admitted to not understanding science - right he

http://groups.google.ca/group/misc.h...f14e98962501dd


So I guess we can ignore anything you say about the quality of science.
After all; if you don't understand it, then how could you possibly be
in a position to judge the methodology the studies use?

John blames science for his not understanding it. He feels that science
should be self explanatory.

Secondly Vitamin C therapy makes all vaccination unecessary, which
would eliminate all MMR injury (like the daeths above) of which autism
is only a
part.

As proven in clinical practice by Dr K, Dr Klenner, and Dr levy MD etc
http://www.whale.to/a/doctors_nutr.html

Oh look, John is quoting things he's written himself - again.

Why do people talk to themselves? They get answers that they can agree
with. If not, then it is a sign of severe mental illness.

No
evidence what-so-ever these claims are anything but one of the voices in
your head; nor any links to a scientific source which would support the
claims made. Ever heard of outside verification; it's the key to any
good argument. . .


Besides, I don't exactly have a lot of free time. While you're busy
authoring your little pages for whale.to I'm working - trying to find
cures for diseases and all that.


RAOFL!! http://www.whale.to/m/therapies.html You pharma boys sure
live in a dreamworld called Allopath Land
http://www.mercola.com/townofallopat...ofallopath.htm

Thanx for that; I guess we know what you do with your time. So while
most of us are out doing things which help others you're in your
basement (maybe even your mom's basement) playing with flash.

Mercola, et al are cited he

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v287.../jbr20117.html

(you may want to get the study. If it is available in PDF format I would
like a copy. email it to mark[dot]probert[at]gmail[dot]com.)

working on your skid marks

Projecting, are we?


See who you really work for http://www.whale.to/a/bealle.htm


Don't work for any of those. I work for the people of Canada; as they
pay the taxes which supports my research. Not one pharma dollar has
ever been used in any study I've been directly involved in. And all of
my findings are public ally available; anyone who wants to take
advantage of them can do so on their own, regardless of the country they
live in.

The anti-vac liars just love to make the claim that the pharmaceutical
companies are funding research which disproves the vaccine-autism link.

Fombonne was attacked by that, but he stated:

"In the United Kingdom, Dr Fombonne has provided advice on the
epidemiology and clinical aspects of autism to scientists advising
parents, to vaccine manufacturers, and to several government committees
between 1998 and 2001. Since June 2004, Dr Fombonne has been an expert
witness for vaccine manufacturers in US thimerosal litigation. None of
his research has ever been funded by the industry." as quoted by"

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/index.php?p=392

"At your next dinner party, try playing the following game. Challenge
everyone around the table to produce a single drug that can cure
people of an illness, other then antibiotics. If you come up with
anything, stop whatever you are doing and call me."---Lynne McTaggart
www.wddty.co.uk

We went through this before - sulfa drugs, many cancer drugs, TGF beta,
INF gamma, rituximab, artemisinin, Herceptin, Mylotarg, Campath,
Zevalin, Bexxar, Erbitux, Avastin, terbinafine, passive immunotherapy,
antivenoms, etc, etc, etc. All lead to permanent cures of their
respective disease(s). Do you honestly think if you keep posting this
same idiotic question the answers will change?

Yes, John does have that hope. Hope is all he has.

And yet you've been 100% unable to provide any links to scientific
studies demonstrating this. Just whale.to. And you cannot account
for (or for that matter, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of)
the tens of thousands of scientific and medical reports which
demonstrate both the safety and effectiveness of vaccinations.


RAOFL! Like these http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html


Been through those before. You are aware that it is 2006, are you not?

The answer to that question is still debated.

After all, your newest cite is from 1995, your oldest from 1900, and
the average date of publication is ~1970. Science does advance;
apparently they forgot to teach you that in school. I'd point out that
every citation I provided in my last post was post-2000; as in modern
science.

Chuckle.



Bryan

Mark Probert wrote:
Bryan Heit wrote:
You've got the links, please show us where they are flawed. Oh wait,
you've admitted to not understanding science - right he

http://groups.google.ca/group/misc.h...f14e98962501dd


So I guess we can ignore anything you say about the quality of
science. After all; if you don't understand it, then how could you
possibly be in a position to judge the methodology the studies use?


John blames science for his not understanding it. He feels that science
should be self explanatory.


It's a good thing science isn't that simple - otherwise we'd have the
whole universe figured out and I'd need a new job ;-)



Mercola, et al are cited he

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v287.../jbr20117.html

(you may want to get the study. If it is available in PDF format I would
like a copy. email it to mark[dot]probert[at]gmail[dot]com.)


Something is wrong with the link; I get a page not found error. I
searched for the author; I assume this is what you want:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...urcetype=HWCIT

If so let me know and I'll forward you the PDF.


RAOFL! Like these http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html



Been through those before. You are aware that it is 2006, are you not?


The answer to that question is still debated.


ROFL


Bryan

Bryan Heit wrote:
Mark Probert wrote:
Bryan Heit wrote:
You've got the links, please show us where they are flawed. Oh wait,
you've admitted to not understanding science - right he

http://groups.google.ca/group/misc.h...f14e98962501dd


So I guess we can ignore anything you say about the quality of
science. After all; if you don't understand it, then how could you
possibly be in a position to judge the methodology the studies use?


John blames science for his not understanding it. He feels that
science should be self explanatory.


It's a good thing science isn't that simple - otherwise we'd have the
whole universe figured out and I'd need a new job ;-)



Mercola, et al are cited he

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v287.../jbr20117.html

(you may want to get the study. If it is available in PDF format I
would like a copy. email it to mark[dot]probert[at]gmail[dot]com.)


Something is wrong with the link; I get a page not found error. I
searched for the author; I assume this is what you want:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content...urcetype=HWCIT

Nope. I'll look further.

If so let me know and I'll forward you the PDF.


RAOFL! Like these http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html



Been through those before. You are aware that it is 2006, are you not?


The answer to that question is still debated.


ROFL


Bryan

john wrote:
"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...

or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths
Also disproved within the links I provided, and soon to be disproved yet
again:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyand...731d3f9&k=7417



A letter on your latest junk science study:


The International Cochrane Collaboration confirmed the author of the study
you report on, Eric Fombonne is not qualified to be engaged in this kind of
work.

The last study Eric Fombonne carried out was dismissed as "impossible to
intepret". That was the conclusion of a comprehensive scientific review by
the Cochrane Collaboration. The Cochrane team investigated 5000 medical
papers on the subject and cut them down to only 6 dealing with Eric's pet
topic and those papers were pretty shakey too according to Cochrane.
Regrettably, they had to throw Eric's paper out completely - it was junk.
And if you check the BMJ, you will find an editorial dealing with the
continuing problem of even the supposedly most esteemed medical journals in
the thrall to drug companies publishing junk - Can we tame the monster?
BMJ 2006;333 (8 July)..

This is what the Cochrane Collaboration said in a review of the safety of
MMR about Fombonne's last paper:-

"The number and possible impact of biases in this study is so high that
interpretation of the results is impossible".


That is a pretty damning comment. If you need the .pdf of the paper with it
highlighted - see the attached.

Said .pdf is not available on the Internet:

A search:

Web
Tip: Try removing quotes from your search to get more results.


Your search - "The number and possible impact of biases in this study is
so high that" - did not match any documents.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...&btnG =Search

Fombonne is a psychiatrist and that means not a real clinician nor
scientist. Psychiatry is in the most unsuccessful branch of medicine in
history.

Here is a bias. Fombonne is also an epidemiologist who studies autism
and its epidemiology. Note that his wife is also an epidemiologist.

Sadly, Eric goes around insisting "There is no scientific evidence that an
association between MMR immunization and autism exists." when there is
plenty of evidence. He just does not seem to want to admit it.

Next time you are going to run a story on one of Eric Fombonne's studies,
how about you put it in the "fiction" section?

Sincerely,

Mr Miller

Mr. Miller eats too many sour grapes. This sounds like a grumpy person
sending a letter to the editor.

"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
I see. Data is sound, so attack the researcher, and do it though a letter
you supposedly received from an unidentifiable source (Mr Miller). I'd
also point out that Eric Fombonne was just one of several researchers on
the project. This is how science is done - you surround yourself with
various experts, so that the study is done right. So you can question the
validity of Eric Fombonne's credentials all you want, but it doesn't change
the fact that he was one of 6 experts; including MD's and PhD's, who all
worked on the project.

For that matter, I don't suppose you could provide a link to prove what
you say is true; a search of Cochrane's webpage didn't bring up any
evidence of the article you claim exists; they don't even have Eric
Fombonne's name in their search engine! Not that I expect it exists; this
blatant attack on Eric Fombonne reeks of desperation. Must really suck to
see a long-held belief suffer a fatal wound.

As for the study, here is the link. I'm sure you'll make up some excuse
to ignore it, but I'm giving it anyways. If you actually bother to read
it, I'd love to hear how you explain away this evidence:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...act/118/1/e139

Bryan

I'd like someone with a bit of impartiality

"E. Fombonne has provided advice on the epidemiology and clinical aspects of
autism to scientists advising parents, to vaccine manufacturers (for a fee),
and to several Government committees." In plainer language, Fombonne had
been a paid adviser to the manufacturers of MMR in the then-impending
1,500-strong class action High Court case in the UK that alleged that MMR
had precipitated children's degeneration into autism. The wisdom of using a
paid witness to the manufacturers, as defendants, in a central authorship
role in a supposedly independent research paper, might be questioned by
many. --David Thrower

Some answers:

1. SafeMinds Aids to Correct Misinformation

A Quebec study to be published in the July 2006 issue of Pediatrics, the
official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, states that it is
"very clear" that there is no relationship between mercury-based thimerosal
in vaccines and the onset of autism. Dr. Eric Fombonne of the McGill
University Health Center bases his opinion on a study among schoolchildren
in Quebec, Canada. According to an analysis by SafeMinds, however, the study
methodology is unlikely to lend itself to such declarative statements and
should be treated with skepticism, for a number of reasons.

The study looked at 27,749 students in grades kindergarten through 12th
grade in a Montreal school district and found 187 cases of autism. The vast
majority of these cases (more than 90%) were born in years in which
thimerosal vaccines were widely used for infants in Quebec, as they were in
the US. Only a tiny fraction of the autism students were born when
thimerosal-free DTP and Hib vaccines were given, and these students may have
been exposed to thimerosal from the Hepatitis B vaccine newly recommended
for infants of foreign born parents, which made up over one fourth of the
greater Montreal population.

Dr. Fombonne wrongfully claims that large-population studies in the United
States, England and Denmark also disprove a link between mercury and autism,
and he states that "there is no autism epidemic." He conveniently ignores
the vast body of scientific evidence that has shown that environmental
factors such as mercury may have caused the increased number of autism
diagnoses in the US and other countries. Dr. Fombonne's actions have not
historically been in the best interest of families with autism-he has
declared himself an expert witness on behalf of various pharmaceutical
companies in thimerosal-related litigation. Thimerosal is a serious poison
that is harmful via inhalation, ingestion or contact with skin. Furthermore,
thimerosal- containing vaccines elevate mercury levels in the body to a
level where adverse neurological outcomes are known to occur. It is
irresponsible for any pediatric doctor to justify injecting our children
with mercury.

The prevalence of all autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) has risen to 1 in 166
children in the past 20 years. Several independent federal agencies and
respected scientists and researchers have received federal funds to
investigate the autism epidemic and the biological plausibility of a link
between mercury and ASDs. Multiple studies have indicated that there is a
connection between childhood vaccines containing thimerosal and the
incidence of autism. No conclusions have been made rejecting a link between
mercury and autism.

2. the study was immediately criticized as biased
by David Ayoub, an Illinois radiologist.

`Heavily Biased'

``This is just another heavily biased study by an author
with a long track record of financial ties to the drug industry,
and whose previous views on the epidemiology of autism have been
discredited,'' wrote Ayoub, who is also medical director of the
Foundation for Autism Information and Research, in an e-mailed
response to questions.
Ayoub said Fombonne's effort ignored several papers that
link mercury and autism. The omissions and Fombonne's testimony
on behalf of drugmakers raises issues about his ability to
independently analyze the study data, Ayoub said.
The study shows a four-fold increase in autism rates during
the 10-year period examined, Ayoub said. In addition, some
children may have been exposed to mercury from other vaccines,
including hepatitis and flu shots given to children and pregnant
women after 1996 that still contained mercury, he said in an
interview.

Symptoms

Autism symptoms include regression in speaking skills and
may develop after children are given vaccines, leading some to
link the events. Fombonne said the increased autism rate is more
likely tied to changes in the definition of autism, greater
awareness of the condition and rising numbers of services for
patients has boosted the number of children diagnosed with the
condition each year.
This isn't the first study to eliminate mercury as a
possible cause for autism. The U.S. government-chartered
Institute of Medicine in Washington issued a report in May 2004
concluding from a review of previous studies that no evidence
linked autism with thimerosal-containing vaccines or with shots
that no longer contain the mercury-based preservative.
The rates of disorders ``among children born in an era
where there was no exposure to thimerosal is significantly
higher than in the years before, when there was high exposure,''
he said. ``That's really a convincing argument that there is no
relationship between the two.''

3. All of his past efforts failed to hit any mark
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/fombonne_h.html except the one showing he was
working for the vaccine industry. Someone has to do their dirty work

john wrote:
"Bryan Heit" wrote in message
...
I see. Data is sound, so attack the researcher, and do it though a letter
you supposedly received from an unidentifiable source (Mr Miller). I'd
also point out that Eric Fombonne was just one of several researchers on
the project. This is how science is done - you surround yourself with
various experts, so that the study is done right. So you can question the
validity of Eric Fombonne's credentials all you want, but it doesn't change
the fact that he was one of 6 experts; including MD's and PhD's, who all
worked on the project.

For that matter, I don't suppose you could provide a link to prove what
you say is true; a search of Cochrane's webpage didn't bring up any
evidence of the article you claim exists; they don't even have Eric
Fombonne's name in their search engine! Not that I expect it exists; this
blatant attack on Eric Fombonne reeks of desperation. Must really suck to
see a long-held belief suffer a fatal wound.

As for the study, here is the link. I'm sure you'll make up some excuse
to ignore it, but I'm giving it anyways. If you actually bother to read
it, I'd love to hear how you explain away this evidence:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...act/118/1/e139

Bryan

I'd like someone with a bit of impartiality

If that is so, why do you cite the anti-vac liars at SafeMinds?


"E. Fombonne has provided advice on the epidemiology and clinical aspects of
autism to scientists advising parents, to vaccine manufacturers (for a fee),
and to several Government committees." In plainer language, Fombonne had
been a paid adviser to the manufacturers of MMR in the then-impending
1,500-strong class action High Court case in the UK that alleged that MMR
had precipitated children's degeneration into autism. The wisdom of using a
paid witness to the manufacturers, as defendants, in a central authorship
role in a supposedly independent research paper, might be questioned by
many. --David Thrower

Should be called BULL Thrower.

Here is an excellent analysis of the SafeMinds crap:

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/index.php?p=392


Some answers:

1. SafeMinds Aids to Correct Misinformation

A Quebec study to be published in the July 2006 issue of Pediatrics, the
official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, states that it is
"very clear" that there is no relationship between mercury-based thimerosal
in vaccines and the onset of autism. Dr. Eric Fombonne of the McGill
University Health Center bases his opinion on a study among schoolchildren
in Quebec, Canada. According to an analysis by SafeMinds, however, the study
methodology is unlikely to lend itself to such declarative statements and
should be treated with skepticism, for a number of reasons.

The study looked at 27,749 students in grades kindergarten through 12th
grade in a Montreal school district and found 187 cases of autism. The vast
majority of these cases (more than 90%) were born in years in which
thimerosal vaccines were widely used for infants in Quebec, as they were in
the US. Only a tiny fraction of the autism students were born when
thimerosal-free DTP and Hib vaccines were given, and these students may have
been exposed to thimerosal from the Hepatitis B vaccine newly recommended
for infants of foreign born parents, which made up over one fourth of the
greater Montreal population.

Dr. Fombonne wrongfully claims that large-population studies in the United
States, England and Denmark also disprove a link between mercury and autism,
and he states that "there is no autism epidemic." He conveniently ignores
the vast body of scientific evidence that has shown that environmental
factors such as mercury may have caused the increased number of autism
diagnoses in the US and other countries. Dr. Fombonne's actions have not
historically been in the best interest of families with autism-he has
declared himself an expert witness on behalf of various pharmaceutical
companies in thimerosal-related litigation. Thimerosal is a serious poison
that is harmful via inhalation, ingestion or contact with skin. Furthermore,
thimerosal- containing vaccines elevate mercury levels in the body to a
level where adverse neurological outcomes are known to occur. It is
irresponsible for any pediatric doctor to justify injecting our children
with mercury.

The prevalence of all autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) has risen to 1 in 166
children in the past 20 years. Several independent federal agencies and
respected scientists and researchers have received federal funds to
investigate the autism epidemic and the biological plausibility of a link
between mercury and ASDs. Multiple studies have indicated that there is a
connection between childhood vaccines containing thimerosal and the
incidence of autism. No conclusions have been made rejecting a link between
mercury and autism.

2. the study was immediately criticized as biased
by David Ayoub, an Illinois radiologist.

`Heavily Biased'

``This is just another heavily biased study by an author
with a long track record of financial ties to the drug industry,

And, Geier, Haley, ad nauseum are hired guns to be paid for their
testimony.

and whose previous views on the epidemiology of autism have been
discredited,'' wrote Ayoub, who is also medical director of the
Foundation for Autism Information and Research, in an e-mailed
response to questions.

FAIR is another pack of anti-vac liars.

Ayoub said Fombonne's effort ignored several papers that
link mercury and autism. The omissions and Fombonne's testimony
on behalf of drugmakers raises issues about his ability to
independently analyze the study data, Ayoub said.
The study shows a four-fold increase in autism rates during
the 10-year period examined, Ayoub said. In addition, some
children may have been exposed to mercury from other vaccines,
including hepatitis and flu shots given to children and pregnant
women after 1996 that still contained mercury, he said in an
interview.

Symptoms

Autism symptoms include regression in speaking skills and
may develop after children are given vaccines, leading some to
link the events. Fombonne said the increased autism rate is more
likely tied to changes in the definition of autism, greater
awareness of the condition and rising numbers of services for
patients has boosted the number of children diagnosed with the
condition each year.
This isn't the first study to eliminate mercury as a
possible cause for autism. The U.S. government-chartered
Institute of Medicine in Washington issued a report in May 2004
concluding from a review of previous studies that no evidence
linked autism with thimerosal-containing vaccines or with shots
that no longer contain the mercury-based preservative.
The rates of disorders ``among children born in an era
where there was no exposure to thimerosal is significantly
higher than in the years before, when there was high exposure,''
he said. ``That's really a convincing argument that there is no
relationship between the two.''

3. All of his past efforts failed to hit any mark
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/fombonne_h.html except the one showing he was
working for the vaccine industry. Someone has to do their dirty work

As usual, John posts drivel.