Are antidepressant drugs an accomplice in the Virginia Tech shootings?

Jeff wrote:

"Tim Campbell" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 18, 5:23 pm, "Jeff" wrote:


Anything is possible. But the people who did the killing also had
problems
with depression. It like saying that frequent urination causes diabetes
because people with diabetes pee a lot.


Except that violence to self or others is a far more common occurrence
with the use of this type of drug than any other category of drugs.

Prove that it is because of the drug rather than a result of the
underlying illness.

Chuckle, he cannot. Any attempt to do so results in a circle.

bigvince wrote:
On Apr 18, 7:05 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
"Tim Campbell" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Apr 18, 5:23 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
Anything is possible. But the people who did the killing also had
problems
with depression. It like saying that frequent urination causes diabetes
because people with diabetes pee a lot.
Except that violence to self or others is a common occurrence with the
use of this type of drug even among those who are only mildly
depressed.
How common? Evidence, please.

Jeff

There is a lot of evidence that antidepresants can
cause an increase in suicide . The FDA has required that warning be
put on these drugs Here's some evidence to show they also increase
other hostile acts. a href = "
http://www.NewsTarget.com/021798.html"Are antidepressant drugs an
accomplice in the Virginia Tech shootings? (opinion)/
a
" Researchers from Cardiff University in Britain and the Cochrane
Centre examined data on Paxil -- or its generic form, paroxetine --
from GlaxoSmithKline, legal cases and emails from nearly 1,400
patients who responded to a British TV program on antidepressants. The
researchers found that 60 out of 9,219 people taking Paxil -- 0.65
percent -- experienced a "hostility event," compared to 20 out of
6,455 patients taking placebo, or 0.31 percent." from News target.
.................................................. .................................................. ......................
See Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of
Medicine and Law, by David Healy, Andrew Herxheimer, David B. Menkes)
PLos med article
Highlights more hostile events in antidepressant group than
placebo group about twice as many. More hostile events in HEALTHY
SUBJECTS an antidepressants than on placebo. Any one interested should
look at the research for them

Except that there has been further study of this issue. I posted an
artile under the subject line: Benefits of Antidepressants Outweigh Risk
of Suicidal Behavior in Adolescents which you should read in its
entirety. Perhapseven finding the study itself will help you update your
knowledge.

On Apr 18, 10:47 pm, Mark Probert
wrote:
bigvince wrote:
On Apr 18, 7:05 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
"Tim Campbell" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Apr 18, 5:23 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
Anything is possible. But the people who did the killing also had
problems
with depression. It like saying that frequent urination causes diabetes
because people with diabetes pee a lot.
Except that violence to self or others is a common occurrence with the
use of this type of drug even among those who are only mildly
depressed.
How common? Evidence, please.

Jeff

There is a lot of evidence that antidepresants can
cause an increase in suicide . The FDA has required that warning be
put on these drugs Here's some evidence to show they also increase
other hostile acts. a href = "
http://www.NewsTarget.com/021798.html"Are antidepressant drugs an
accomplice in the Virginia Tech shootings? (opinion)/
a
" Researchers from Cardiff University in Britain and the Cochrane
Centre examined data on Paxil -- or its generic form, paroxetine --
from GlaxoSmithKline, legal cases and emails from nearly 1,400
patients who responded to a British TV program on antidepressants. The
researchers found that 60 out of 9,219 people taking Paxil -- 0.65
percent -- experienced a "hostility event," compared to 20 out of
6,455 patients taking placebo, or 0.31 percent." from News target.
.................................................. ..........................*....................... ........................
See Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of
Medicine and Law, by David Healy, Andrew Herxheimer, David B. Menkes)
PLos med article
Highlights more hostile events in antidepressant group than
placebo group about twice as many. More hostile events in HEALTHY
SUBJECTS an antidepressants than on placebo. Any one interested should
look at the research for them

Except that there has been further study of this issue. I posted an
artile under the subject line: Benefits of Antidepressants Outweigh Risk
of Suicidal Behavior in Adolescents which you should read in its
entirety. Perhapseven finding the study itself will help you update your
knowledge.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

First lets get some really basic facts straight. There was no new
study. What was published in JAMA was a meta-analysis so your first
statement that furter study was done is inaccurate. I actualy did read
your posting. I also read the meta-analysis The authors had concern
about many aspects of the study mixed quality of data in the studies
and several other technical problems. They admitted that suicide ideas
increased and said "some might argue that any risk of suicide ideation
or attempt cannot possibly justify treatment with antidepressants for
children or adolescents." They concluded "We believe that the
strength of evidence presented here supports the cautious and well-
monitored use of antidepressant medications as one of the first-line
treatment options'" .The data is really not very convincing. They also
called for further study. They looked at the same data that the FDA
had looked at when they called for a black box warning, Read more
" http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiat...ssion/tb1/5454
Vince

On Apr 18, 10:42 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
"bigvince" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Apr 18, 7:05 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
"Tim Campbell" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Apr 18, 5:23 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
Anything is possible. But the people who did the killing also had
problems
with depression. It like saying that frequent urination causes
diabetes
because people with diabetes pee a lot.

Except that violence to self or others is a common occurrence with the
use of this type of drug even among those who are only mildly
depressed.

How common? Evidence, please.

Jeff

There is a lot of evidence that antidepresants can
cause an increase in suicide . The FDA has required that warning be
put on these drugs Here's some evidence to show they also increase
other hostile acts. a href = "
http://www.NewsTarget.com/021798.html"Are antidepressant drugs an
accomplice in the Virginia Tech shootings? (opinion)/
a
" Researchers from Cardiff University in Britain and the Cochrane
Centre examined data on Paxil -- or its generic form, paroxetine --
from GlaxoSmithKline, legal cases and emails from nearly 1,400
patients who responded to a British TV program on antidepressants. The
researchers found that 60 out of 9,219 people taking Paxil -- 0.65
percent -- experienced a "hostility event," compared to 20 out of
6,455 patients taking placebo, or 0.31 percent." from News target.

.................................................. ..........................*....................... ........................
See Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of
Medicine and Law, by David Healy, Andrew Herxheimer, David B. Menkes)
PLos med article
Highlights more hostile events in antidepressant group than
placebo group about twice as many. More hostile events in HEALTHY
SUBJECTS an antidepressants than on placebo. Any one interested should
look at the research for them

?You mean like the paper that was published that showed that antidepressents
are safe in kids and teens that was published in JAMA this week

Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The paper did not say that these drugs were safe in kids and teens
What it did say is that for those under 12 most of these drugs do not
work. They admitted the dangers of these drugs THey wrote "some
might argue that any risk of suicide ideation or attempt cannot
possibly justify treatment with antidepressants for children or
adolescents." after putting in about 50 qualifiers they concluded
"We believe that the strength of evidence presented here supports the
cautious and well-monitored use of antidepressant medications as one
of the first-line treatment options. This really is the same data that
led the FDA to warn people and require a black box warning. To
characterise it
asas
You mean like the paper that was published that showed that
antidepressents
are safe in kids and teens that was published in JAMA this week . read more http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiat...ssion/tb1/5454 do your own research vince

On Apr 18, 5:23 pm, "Jeff" wrote:

Anything is possible. But the people who did the killing also had problems
with depression. It like saying that frequent urination causes diabetes
because people with diabetes pee a lot.


Just like depressed people who drink and then have accidents it's not
the fault of the alcohol...they were just having problems with
depression.

Because afterall people who don't drink get into accidents too!

Ha!

Eric Harris was taking Luvox (a Prozac-like drug) at the time of the
Littleton murders by Peter R. Breggin, M.D.
http://www.breggin.com/luvox.html

gun control http://www.whale.to/b/gun_control.html

JOHN wrote:

Eric Harris was taking Luvox (a Prozac-like drug) at the time of the
Littleton murders by Peter R. Breggin, M.D.
http://www.breggin.com/luvox.html

I'm sure he was drinking dihydrogenmonoxide at the time as well. That
stuff should be banned!

bigvince wrote:
On Apr 18, 10:47 pm, Mark Probert
wrote:
bigvince wrote:
On Apr 18, 7:05 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
"Tim Campbell" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 18, 5:23 pm, "Jeff" wrote:
Anything is possible. But the people who did the killing also had
problems
with depression. It like saying that frequent urination causes diabetes
because people with diabetes pee a lot.
Except that violence to self or others is a common occurrence with the
use of this type of drug even among those who are only mildly
depressed.
How common? Evidence, please.
Jeff
There is a lot of evidence that antidepresants can
cause an increase in suicide . The FDA has required that warning be
put on these drugs Here's some evidence to show they also increase
other hostile acts. a href = "
http://www.NewsTarget.com/021798.html"Are antidepressant drugs an
accomplice in the Virginia Tech shootings? (opinion)/
a
" Researchers from Cardiff University in Britain and the Cochrane
Centre examined data on Paxil -- or its generic form, paroxetine --
from GlaxoSmithKline, legal cases and emails from nearly 1,400
patients who responded to a British TV program on antidepressants. The
researchers found that 60 out of 9,219 people taking Paxil -- 0.65
percent -- experienced a "hostility event," compared to 20 out of
6,455 patients taking placebo, or 0.31 percent." from News target.
.................................................. .........................*........................ .......................
See Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of
Medicine and Law, by David Healy, Andrew Herxheimer, David B. Menkes)
PLos med article
Highlights more hostile events in antidepressant group than
placebo group about twice as many. More hostile events in HEALTHY
SUBJECTS an antidepressants than on placebo. Any one interested should
look at the research for them
Except that there has been further study of this issue. I posted an
artile under the subject line: Benefits of Antidepressants Outweigh Risk
of Suicidal Behavior in Adolescents which you should read in its
entirety. Perhapseven finding the study itself will help you update your
knowledge.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

First lets get some really basic facts straight. There was no new
study. What was published in JAMA was a meta-analysis so your first
statement that furter study was done is inaccurate

A meta-analysis is a study that utilizes information from previous
studies. It is a "study of studies".

I actualy did read
your posting. I also read the meta-analysis The authors had concern
about many aspects of the study mixed quality of data in the studies
and several other technical problems.

The sign of a good meta-analysis.

They admitted that suicide ideas
increased and said "some might argue that any risk of suicide ideation
or attempt cannot possibly justify treatment with antidepressants for
children or adolescents." They concluded "We believe that the
strength of evidence presented here supports the cautious and well-
monitored use of antidepressant medications as one of the first-line
treatment options'" .The data is really not very convincing.

To you, perhaps. What I found most interesting is that they found no
instances of suicide. IOW, none of the violent behavior that the
anti-medication crowd bleats and brays about.

They also
called for further study. They looked at the same data that the FDA
had looked at when they called for a black box warning, Read more
" http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiat...ssion/tb1/5454

I read it. More study is a great idea. However, based on the current
state of knowledge, antidepressants appear to prevent violent behavior.

Mark Probert wrote:

Jeff wrote:

"Tim Campbell" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 18, 5:23 pm, "Jeff" wrote:


Anything is possible. But the people who did the killing also had
problems
with depression. It like saying that frequent urination causes diabetes
because people with diabetes pee a lot.


Except that violence to self or others is a far more common occurrence
with the use of this type of drug than any other category of drugs.

Prove that it is because of the drug rather than a result of the
underlying illness.

Chuckle, he cannot. Any attempt to do so results in a circle.

I've taken Paxil, but even with my extensive training in killing
people it never sent me off on a rampage.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com