A prescription of a different kind

vakker wrote:

What you've said is true. They're inventing new diseases, disorders and
conditions every day. The real motivation of course to sell more costly
expensive drugs.
No need to invent new diseases.

Simply repackage the same old patent protection expired pharmaceuticals
in *new* patentable delivery devices and hoover up the profits.


Where the heck are all our politicians? Why don't they put an end to this
situation? Then again maybe they're a part or even the cause of it.

PeterB wrote:
Mark Probert wrote:
vakker wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
PeterB wrote:
Garry Freemyer wrote:
Whether ADHD exists or not is still a question in my mind or rather, I
wonder if what some are dealing with is something worse.

But this here, you've hit on one of the biggest problems - The
OVERDIAGNOSIS
of a thing can be more damaging that the disorder itself. In this case,
it
clear that this kid has a problem alright. The problem is - paranoid
abusive
overdemanding perfectionist parents who need to learn to chill out
instead
of looking for excuses for non-problems.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! I got the proof!

This reminds me of the storys where harried doctors could proscribe some
pills that were nothing but water or some other innocuous ingrediant to
get
the nutcases out of their hair.

People who are determined to find a problem are the problem!
The drug makers need to manufacture as many "diseases" as possible in
order to sell another "treatment."
Can you document that Petey?

Just look at "rates" of depression,
which are magically skyrocketing in direct proportion to pharmaceutical
greed.
Can you document that, Petey?

Just open your eyes mark. Then again maybe you could wash them out.
My eyes are wide open. My older son has AD/HD and we worked with him
from the beginning using a combination of medicine, special education,
counseling, parental involvement and not listening to bull****.

The claim that this is "manufactured" is pure unadulterated bull****.
AD/HD was around and described over a century ago. It has undergone name
changes, but, a rose by any other name...

Markey, I've told you about pandering to the interests of your sponsors
using these stories of yours.

I know you have bleated and brayed. You are incapable of proving your
allegations and remain an asshole.

We are well aware that you have
encountered every disease known to Man, either yourself personally or
in a friend, pet, or family member (same thing?)

Do check my ten year posting history in alt.support.attn-deficit. This
is not current events, moron.

But we hear that
rumors of your resurrection are wildly exaggerated, and you failed to
answer any of my prayers last week, so I'm suspicious.

Do you know what you are talking about? I surely do not. I ran that
sentence through my bull**** detector, and it exploded.

BTW, do you
wear a cape?

Petey, you should learn how to type with one hand. Whenever you use two,
you lose your grip on reality.

"PeterB" wrote in message
oups.com...

Peter Bowditch wrote:
"Jan Drew" wrote:

Just look at the $$$$ donated to politicians by Big Phama.

Like the $2 million a year given to Orin Hinch's son to "lobby" his
father. Dreadful, isn't it? Oh, I forgot. That's OK because the $2
million comes from supplement manufacturers.

Your sponsors make the supplements, you idiot. 90% of all manufactured
vitamins come from the drug makers. It's the reason your bosses tried
to fix prices on vitamins during the 1990s, until they got caught.
Industry influence over the legislature is wrong and should be
eliminated, but prescrioption drugs are responsible for 100,000 deaths
per year. Supplements, by contrast, are associated with fewer
mortalities than death by bee sting. Look at the relative differences
between these product classes (ie, their impact to public health), not
just the politics.

PeterB

It is noted Pete ole boy didn't comment on the article.


"Jan Drew" wrote in message
.. .

http://www.dailyvidette.com/media/st...ilyvidette.com

Our View
A prescription of a different kind
Excerpts:

Every parent wants what is best for his or her child, to get good grades,
possibly go to college and live a happy life. But it seems that good
grades
are now being redefined. For some parents, a B on a report card is no
longer
acceptable. So what happens when their child gets a B? Take them to the
doctor and demand a prescription for Ritalin.

Unfortunately this is not a joke. According to an article on MSNBC.com
several pediatricians have begun reporting a trend of parents demanding
their child be diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
simply because their child got a B on a report card. What's more is many
of
these parents openly admit to knowing their child doesn't really have
ADHD.
There goes getting by with just trying your hardest.

What's really sad is that this trend just furthers the image that, to
Americans, nothing is your fault. Your child is doing badly in school?
Well
it's not because they're not doing their homework, it's because they have
ADHD. You eat McDonald's everyday and are now obese? It's obviously
McDonald's fault, not yours. And what do you do when something isn't your
fault? First you find whose fault it is and then maybe you can find a drug
out there to fix it. Had a bad day? Maybe you're depressed - bring on the
Prozac.

How can these parents sit down and tell their children not to smoke or do
drugs, but they knowingly have them abuse prescription drugs?

At the same time, every time a doctor has to see a child because they got
a
B- instead of an A, they are not seeing a child with a serious problem. As
a
society we need to stop this overwhelming competition among students. Not
every child has to be the valedictorian or star football player. Parents
need to realize that you don't have children in order for them to fulfill
all the things that you couldn't.

Perhaps the parents who cannot see this are the ones who need to be seeing
the doctors, not their children.

Oh, just lookey. Mark is once again discussing sometthng *I* posted.

Thus making a fool of himself again.


"Jan Drew" wrote in message
.. .
http://www.dailyvidette.com/media/st...ilyvidette.com

Our View
A prescription of a different kind
Excerpts:

Every parent wants what is best for his or her child, to get good grades,
possibly go to college and live a happy life. But it seems that good
grades are now being redefined. For some parents, a B on a report card is
no longer acceptable. So what happens when their child gets a B? Take them
to the doctor and demand a prescription for Ritalin.

Unfortunately this is not a joke. According to an article on MSNBC.com
several pediatricians have begun reporting a trend of parents demanding
their child be diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
simply because their child got a B on a report card. What's more is many
of these parents openly admit to knowing their child doesn't really have
ADHD. There goes getting by with just trying your hardest.

What's really sad is that this trend just furthers the image that, to
Americans, nothing is your fault. Your child is doing badly in school?
Well it's not because they're not doing their homework, it's because they
have ADHD. You eat McDonald's everyday and are now obese? It's obviously
McDonald's fault, not yours. And what do you do when something isn't your
fault? First you find whose fault it is and then maybe you can find a drug
out there to fix it. Had a bad day? Maybe you're depressed - bring on the
Prozac.

How can these parents sit down and tell their children not to smoke or do
drugs, but they knowingly have them abuse prescription drugs?

At the same time, every time a doctor has to see a child because they got
a B- instead of an A, they are not seeing a child with a serious problem.
As a society we need to stop this overwhelming competition among students.
Not every child has to be the valedictorian or star football player.
Parents need to realize that you don't have children in order for them to
fulfill all the things that you couldn't.

Perhaps the parents who cannot see this are the ones who need to be seeing
the doctors, not their children.



"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
vakker wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
PeterB wrote:
Garry Freemyer wrote:
Whether ADHD exists or not is still a question in my mind or rather, I
wonder if what some are dealing with is something worse.

But this here, you've hit on one of the biggest problems - The
OVERDIAGNOSIS
of a thing can be more damaging that the disorder itself. In this
case, it
clear that this kid has a problem alright. The problem is - paranoid
abusive
overdemanding perfectionist parents who need to learn to chill out
instead
of looking for excuses for non-problems.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! I got the proof!

This reminds me of the storys where harried doctors could proscribe
some
pills that were nothing but water or some other innocuous ingrediant
to get
the nutcases out of their hair.

People who are determined to find a problem are the problem!
The drug makers need to manufacture as many "diseases" as possible in
order to sell another "treatment."
Can you document that Petey?

Just look at "rates" of depression,
which are magically skyrocketing in direct proportion to pharmaceutical
greed.
Can you document that, Petey?


Just open your eyes mark. Then again maybe you could wash them out.

My eyes are wide open. My older son has AD/HD and we worked with him from
the beginning using a combination of medicine, special education,
counseling, parental involvement and not listening to bull****.

Mark claims to have been with his son 24/7.

Anything else you need to know about Mark?

How can these parents sit down and tell their children not to smoke or do
drugs, but they knowingly have them abuse prescription drugs?



The claim that this is "manufactured" is pure unadulterated bull****.
AD/HD was around and described over a century ago. It has undergone name
changes, but, a rose by any other name...

Perhaps the parents who cannot see this are the ones who need to be seeing
the doctors, not their children.

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
PeterB wrote:
Mark Probert wrote:
vakker wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
PeterB wrote:
Garry Freemyer wrote:
Whether ADHD exists or not is still a question in my mind or rather,
I
wonder if what some are dealing with is something worse.

But this here, you've hit on one of the biggest problems - The
OVERDIAGNOSIS
of a thing can be more damaging that the disorder itself. In this
case,
it
clear that this kid has a problem alright. The problem is - paranoid
abusive
overdemanding perfectionist parents who need to learn to chill out
instead
of looking for excuses for non-problems.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! I got the proof!

This reminds me of the storys where harried doctors could proscribe
some
pills that were nothing but water or some other innocuous ingrediant
to
get
the nutcases out of their hair.

People who are determined to find a problem are the problem!
The drug makers need to manufacture as many "diseases" as possible in
order to sell another "treatment."
Can you document that Petey?

Just look at "rates" of depression,
which are magically skyrocketing in direct proportion to
pharmaceutical
greed.
Can you document that, Petey?

Just open your eyes mark. Then again maybe you could wash them out.
My eyes are wide open. My older son has AD/HD and we worked with him
from the beginning using a combination of medicine, special education,
counseling, parental involvement and not listening to bull****.

The claim that this is "manufactured" is pure unadulterated bull****.
AD/HD was around and described over a century ago. It has undergone name
changes, but, a rose by any other name...

Markey, I've told you about pandering to the interests of your sponsors
using these stories of yours.

I know you have bleated and brayed. You are incapable of proving your
allegations and remain an asshole.

We are well aware that you have
encountered every disease known to Man, either yourself personally or
in a friend, pet, or family member (same thing?)

Do check my ten year posting history in alt.support.attn-deficit. This is
not current events, moron.

Glad to se Mark is a kinder and gentler poster.

Yes, indeed--he has quite a history.

Like this:

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....9cd95996ff9815

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...c9073f294b704a

2000

(Mark Probert

m.a.r.k

Mark Probert

Ritalin Helps Teens with ADHD, Study Shows

Attention Disorder Meds Don't Up Drug Abuse Risk

Lilly Says New ADHD Drug Effective

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...d8b7a12961559d


"Cher" wrote in message


...


"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Lilly Says New ADHD Drug Effective Wed May 22,12:08 PM ET By Jed Seltzer


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Drugmaker Eli Lilly and Co. on Wednesday said that
late-stage tests of its experimental treatment for attention deficit
hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) showed it to be as effective as standard
therapies, with fewer troublesome safety risks.


The drug, called atomoxetine, may offer an alternative to current
medicines,
such as Novartis AG's Ritalin (news - web sites), which have been
associated
with overstimulation and the potential for abuse.


Data on the drug, gathered from trials of children and adults were
presented
at a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association in Philadelphia.
Both
trials showed the drug was significantly more effective than a placebo
in
reducing symptoms of ADHD -- such as inability to sustain attention,
restlessness, and impulsiveness.


The results put atomoxetine's results on par with Ritalin and other
medicines.


"The children's trial looked at those traditional issues of attention
deficit hyperactivity disorder and showed efficacy that put it as a
logical
and equal alternative with any existing treatment," said Dr. Calvin
Sumner,
a researcher with Lilly.


Among children ages 6 to 11, the drug showed on average a 13.3-point
reduction on a common scale of symptoms, compared with about a 4.7-point
reduction with placebo, Lilly said. In children ages 12 to 18, the drug
demonstrated on average a 13.3-point reduction on the scale, compared
with
about a 6.9-point reduction with placebo. The results represented a
statistically significant difference, Sumner said.


Mark, do they ever do comparison with the new drugs to the ones presently
being used? I'd be curious to know the differences in the reduction of
ADHD symptoms between this new drug and one like Ritalin. In other words,
does "new" mean better?



Sometimes, yes. It does eliminate the stigma that the anti-med morons like
to lay on people. If it eliminates the need for monthly prescriptions, that
does mean BETTER.

As for head to head tests, the article said:


"In earlier clinical trials, atomoxetine compared well with methylphenidate.
Although Lilly has not conducted head-to-head studies, previous tests of
atomoxetine included a small group of patients treated with
methylphenidate."


They do conduct these tests, but that is down the road.


The rest of the article does say 'better' AFAIAC.


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...50fbc3597b5990

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...7d8f8f17664a7d

Yes, I have had dealings with him. I have been reading his HealthFraud
listserv for over three years. I do not find him to be arrogant or
pushy as you describe. Opinionated? Yes. Blunt? Yes. (But, those are
my favorite personal qualities, too.)


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...2f14bc49648ac0

Has your ADHD diagnosis been confirmed by any *biological* tests that showed
the abnormality of your brain? If not, your claim to having ADHD is no
more valid than a claim of those who say they have seen UFOs. Doesn't it
fly in the face on any reason, that the so-called biological psychiatry has
absolutely no biological proof to any of it's claims?

There are several **medical** conditions that have no clinical
findings, do not show up on x-rays or scans, and have no laboratory
tests that demonstrate that they actually exist. Does this mean that
they do not exist?


Jeff Utz"

Study: Ritalin may help ADHD kids avoid future drug use

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...8a73b3cfe682ca

Jun 9 2000

Mark Probert

In article ,


(JDrew63929) wrote:
From: Andrew Kingoff Date: 06/08/2000 10:29 PM US
Eastern Standard Time Message-id:

Andrew has a history of lying. I have said none of these things.



So far, you have a negative credibility rating. Andrew has a
neutral credibility rating.

Guess who is going to be believed? Hint: Do not look in the
mirror.

[note Andrew has nuked his posts].

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...daef24c1f27662

the only troll here is andrew. if anyone would like to see fine examples of
his
work (and the reason for his obviously personal dislike of me, feel free to
check
out any of the acupuncture threads on mha. he's our resident acupuncture
student-who-really-wants-to-be-a-doctor.)



Probert

Jun 8 2000

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...b734b8733b73a0

In article ,
(John Bain) wrote:



Rich writes:

Another nice set of lies.


To Jan if it is pro alt it is good and if it is anti-conventional it is
even better.


Jan has never said this.



S/h/it does not have to. Anyone with critical reading skills can
readily read its messages and conclude this. It really is not hard.
Just requires thinking.



For those of you who have not been reading misc.health.alternative, Jan
Drew likely is suffering from some kind of psychosomatic disorder and has
very bad experiences with conventional medicine who do not give into her
delusional beliefs about her health.

Your opinion based on no evidence at all.



Rich does not do that. he does not use altLogic.




She has had all her amalgams removed due to believing that she had
mercury poisoning and only DAYS after having them removed she
reported
that she felt better than she has in years. Of course anyone who
knows
anything about mercury toxicity realizes that her improvement had nothing
to do with the removal of the amalgams.

And your proof of this? You know nothing about Jan's condition and how it
was affected by the
dental
work.



Perfect! Knowing nothing is a prerequisite for believing in alternative
therapies!



She also is a Hulda "Quack" Clark supporter and believes that she was
infected with multiple parasites including loa loa which is not found in
North America.

And she had the lab reports that stated loa loa.



Hulda just escaped jail on a technicality.



Jan is a sick individual who tries to recruit people to her way of
thinking. She is not very bright and cannot tolerate individuals who
disagree with her point of view.

Rich doesn't like Jan because she stands uo to him. He will be killfiling
her next.



I won't. I do not do killfiles. I do kill-bull****.




I am truly sorry that I made her aware of this support group

You didn't 'make her aware of it' until confusion set in, you
crossposted her
to it, deliberately.



That is a means to make a person aware of something. However, that
statement does not apply if you use altLogic.



The last thing that you need is Jan Drew mail bombing your group with
her nonsense.

How can she do this, she is only posting to MHA, like me. If anyone thinks
ASA-D should read this, please repost it to them



It is posted to them.




Again I apologize to ADAD and encourage all of you to keep up the good
work.

You should apologise, but for your own behavior.



Jan should apologize for bull****ing.




I will continue to try to keep posters on mha honest and challenge
the
very dubious claims.

And you do not consider Andrew's, acupuncture 'disharmonies' are
legally
defined in the Florida statutes, is a dubious claim.



legally defined does not make them real. Politics is following money.



No, you pick on people and if they challenge you, killfile them.


Not me.


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...5ad163ef2786df

Kitten, even tho you have nine lives, DO NOT hold your breath,.
Cornball is not interested in such a thing. When I gave s/h/it the
proof he demanded, s/h/it tucked its tail between its legs and would
not respond to my posts again.


S/h/it cannot handle facts.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...4d22a178ab1bfa

Mark Probert

Keith ODonnell" wrote:


"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:04:03 -0400, "Keith ODonnell"

wrote:


..... CLIP....
But none of it is relevant to the therapeutic usage of this
or any
medication.


Joe Parsons


================================================== ======== Frequently
Asked Questions for alt.support.attn-deficit and other resources for
dealing with attention deficit disorder are at
http://www.cyber-mall.com/asad/


Gee. That's really wise. I guess the couple of other folks
complaining
about headaches in this group are irrelevant too. I guess they aren't
relevant
to the
therapeutic usage of this drug or any medication either.


It must really suck when you realize that the "therapeutic
usage" you're
talking about isn't really that therapeutic. And that people's lives have
actually
been royally
****ed up by it. I can see why you consider us irrelevant.


But regrettably, the topic of the group isn't the medication.
It's
attention deficit issues. And the therapeutic use of the drug isn't the
topic of



conversation in this



thread. Nobody was talking about therapeutic use of the drug or any
medication,
Joe. The
topic is about whether or not Ritalin can be addictive. So your
irrelevancy
comment is in
fact itself irrelevant. I'm not off topic. You are. You are off topic no
matter who
the **** you
are or think you are.

BSEG Take a hike richard noggin,



Please watch your language. This newsgroup is like an extension
of my lving room and such foul mouthing is not tolerated.


[ROTFLOL..............Mark claimed he did not post from aol].

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....1780f59b2683f9

Marciosos7 Probertiosos8"

I know, I will email this to Jan.


I hope others repost it, and also email it to her.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...47e5a97e362a9a

"Mark Probert" Mark

I wanted to get the point accross, and I did not know how to shut off HTML
in OE.

Path:
g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com !news3.optonline.net!news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.POSTE D!not-for-mail
From: "Mark Probert" Mark
Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
References:



Subject: Hyperactivity Drugs Found Wanting
Lines: 21
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441
Message-ID: t
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:49:13 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.194.64.219
X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace: news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net 1099774153 68.194.64.219 (Sat, 06 Nov 2004
15:49:13 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:49:13 EST
Organization: Optimum Online


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...0242cc3?hl=en&

Jun 17 2000

(Mark Probert)

From: (Mark Probert)
Subject: Study: Psychiatric drugs overprescribed for kids
Date: 2000/06/17
Message-ID: #1/1
X-Deja-AN: 635758279
References:
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
X-Admin:

In article ,

(JDrew63929) writes:


From:
Date: 06/16/2000 1:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

snip

Again my concern is the use of these drugs on very
young children and so far I am not convinced we know enough about the
effects these drugs have on them. I will continue searching for those
studies.

I'm with you. I don't think there are any studies on young children?

Incorrect. There are studies that have been completed and reported, and
others
in progress.

So we
just
wing it?? IMHO, drugging young children is WRONG! And yes I have had
experience, been there, done that. That's WHY I have these opinions.

So, you drugged kids, eh?

Couldn't handle them, eh?


Mark Probert


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...0ed052e?hl=en&

Jun 17 2000

Mark Probert

(JDrew63929) wrote:
From: (Mark Probert) Date: 06/17/2000 12:05 PM
US Eastern Standard Time Message-id:


In article ,







(JDrew63929) writes:

From: Date: 06/16/2000 1:44 PM US Eastern Standard
Time Message-id:


snip


Again my concern is the use of these drugs on very young children and so
far I am not convinced we know enough
about the
effects these drugs have on them. I will continue searching
for those
studies.


I'm with you. I don't think there are any studies on young
children?


Incorrect. There are studies that have been completed and
reported, and
others in progress.


Proof please. Post them here.



Look them up on Medline. Posting studies to you has always been
a waste of time.


You have no credibility in a.s.a.d.




So we
just wing it?? IMHO, drugging young children is WRONG! And yes I
have had
experience, been there, done that. That's WHY I have these
opinions.

So, you drugged kids, eh?


No.


Couldn't handle them, eh?


LOL Just two daycare centers for 38 years.



38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years


38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years



http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...5c5dae5?hl=en&

Mark Probert

Jun 9 2000 12:00 am

Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....


Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....

But we hear that
rumors of your resurrection are wildly exaggerated, and you failed to
answer any of my prayers last week, so I'm suspicious.

Do you know what you are talking about? I surely do not. I ran that
sentence through my bull**** detector, and it exploded.

BTW, do you
wear a cape?

Petey, you should learn how to type with one hand. Whenever you use two,
you lose your grip on reality.


Example of Mark's history in MHA.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....1b642b5?hl=en&