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#11
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A Better Mousetrap for the Consumers
On Jan 7, 10:32*pm, Mark wrote:
l). Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere. Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its [wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James Dean, has its Jan. None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia have lost all sensible thought. *It just means that these places tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say. Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Mark, I still haven't made up my mind on this controversial subject of vaccines; due to the fact that special ingredient is still contained in flu shots. However, what I would like to propose to all of you "scientific minds" (as you so like to claim you have), is that consumers know what exactly is in the vaccine that they are getting so that they can make a responsible choice with their physician whether to take the vaccine or not. I'd like to see a Material Data Safety Sheet on every ingredient in the vaccine, and some accountability from doctors such as yourself, so if you propose that XXXX vaccine is the the right drug of choice, that you are held accountable for your actions if the person were to die or get sick from that vaccine. Keeping in the same lines, I'd like to see a doctor have to put his malpractice insurance information on a sheet, given to the consumer PRIOR to the doctor or nurse giving the vaccine, so there is some kind of documentation that will assume 100% responsibility that if in the future that this vaccine contains dangerous chemicals that you, or your employer will take full responsibility. Along the lines that chemical manufacturer's must do today, naming the ingredients of their product. As a consumer advocate, unless you are willing to "put up," then instead of making the nasty cracks you have made against individuals that do not share your opinion, a great option for you would be to be adult enough and professional enough not to make the cracks you have made towards the consumers you have named, as if you feel you are way better than they are. Consumers have the right to question your credentials, your ethics, and your opinions. You aren't "all that and a bag of potato chips too." All products that consumers buy should have some kind of warranty, and vaccines should be included. What a wonderful opportunity for a consumer group, like Quackwatch that openly states that they are to want to protect the public, and get themselves involved for making sure that a MSDS sheet is available for the consumer, and making doctors like yourself have to take potential risks. When you, and the rest of your scientific minded individuals are willing to put up this kind of documentation to the consumer, let me know. Then, only then, will those with "scientific minds" that claim that vaccines are the right choice, will be accountable for their actions. Would it be possible that there was another magic ingredient in those vaccines that the public is not aware of? Kentucky? isn't that where Ken Ham set up camp, after he left Australia? By the way, who funded that study? List the company, and those that supported it. Thank you. |
#12
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
On Jan 8, 9:46*am, "t" wrote:
"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message ... State's autism rises despite vaccine change No vacs for my kids thank you. No kids for you; thank you for not breeding! And there is nothing you can do to change that. Yup, some chose a life of celibacy, Tools had celibacy thrust upon him. Now this is the part where you get to blather, so please do. |
#13
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
"Carole" wrote in message
... "Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "Mark" wrote in message ... On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote: State's autism rises despite vaccine change snip And yes, I know that the second story contains the idiotic statement "thimerosal -- nearly half of which is made of ethylmercury". I can only assume that the "journalist" studied chemistry at the University of Kentucky (if at all). Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere. Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its [wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James Dean, has its Jan. None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia have lost all sensible thought. It just means that these places tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say. Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Let us pity these souls and take the high road. Surely, they are nincompoops and aggressive asses...they can't help it. Somewhere along the evolutionary line they missed the boat, the Good Ship Lolli-Sense. They can't help what they are. I think the best course is to tolerate their rants in much the same way an adult will watch a fit-throwing 2- year-old bang his head on the floor: you aren't going to make me get you another popsicle, and the sooner your head hurts, the sooner you will realize it. Yes, we much-maligned "naysayers" have earned a little triumphalism, I think. Most people don't need any depth of knowledge about science or medicine. We can't blame them for that ---that is why we have scientists and why we have doctors, just as we have other kinds of specialists to build our homes and fly our planes. But the problem is the people become disempowered and aren't allowed to think for themselves. They are taught to defer to "experts" and "reliable sources" for everything which leaves them vulnerable. I cannot agree that this is so. Most societies work hard at having a well-educated population. And the wise person does understand their own limitations. When I have a urological or orthopoedic problem I defer to experts in those fields. People should think for themselves because the experts aren't always right and often get used by vested interests to push for dubious purposes. That is true, but it applies equally (at minimum) to those pushing alternative theories and products (including yourself). Whence the assumption that they can be trusted ? Any decision still has to be based upon the available evidence, and if you dismiss the evidence of one side as always tainted you are simply responding to your own biases. Mostly alt.med is the leavings of the mainstream, theories that have been well tried out and found wanting. Do you ever take the pains to try and understand why they have been dropped? What we can fault some for is the arrogant assurance that their own half-baked medical beliefs are undoubtedly correct and their refusal to even look at overwhelmingly contrary evidence. The thiomerosal-autism things is only the latest of many dearly held alt theories that have been proved wrong, but that doesn't seem to register either.. I haven't got "arrogant assurance", what I've got is reasoned belief rather than taking at face value everything from "experts" and "reliable sources" But you are taking heaps of matters "at face value" about cell salts. Science offers you ways of ensuring that making sure you are not fooling yourself (meaning that the effects you think you observe are placebo- related). The main difference between the mainstream and alternative medicine lies therein. PM who are, either wittingly or unwittingly, serving the interests of various cartels, where science is twisted and incomplete with all concept of the ether being removed. In a world where knowledge is power, they prefer to keep the people in the dark -- so much easier to control that way. Carole www.cellsalts.net PM |
#14
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
Mark wrote:
On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote: State's autism rises despite vaccine change snip And yes, I know that the second story contains the idiotic statement "thimerosal -- nearly half of which is made of ethylmercury". I can only assume that the "journalist" studied chemistry at the University of Kentucky (if at all). Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere. Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its [wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James Dean, has its Jan. Hey, I wasn't demeaning everyone with a degree from U of K. The university that awarded me the two certificates hanging on my office wall was the first real university in the world to introduce the teaching of chiropractic as if it is some sort of medical science. http://www.chiro.mq.edu.au/ Now that I have stopped retching I will make one of those popular culture references which so confuse some of the participants he Jimmy Dean Rock on And seeing that this story is all over the media: I read the paper and I hear the news. I search the heavens vainly for clues. None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia have lost all sensible thought. It just means that these places tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say. Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Let us pity these souls and take the high road. Surely, they are nincompoops and aggressive asses...they can't help it. Somewhere along the evolutionary line they missed the boat, the Good Ship Lolli-Sense. And where do we go from here? Which is the way that's clear? They can't help what they are. I think the best course is to tolerate their rants in much the same way an adult will watch a fit-throwing 2- year-old bang his head on the floor: you aren't going to make me get you another popsicle, and the sooner your head hurts, the sooner you will realize it. -- Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com |
#15
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
"Carole" wrote in message
... "Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "Mark" wrote in message ... On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote: State's autism rises despite vaccine change snip And yes, I know that the second story contains the idiotic statement "thimerosal -- nearly half of which is made of ethylmercury". I can only assume that the "journalist" studied chemistry at the University of Kentucky (if at all). Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere. Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its [wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James Dean, has its Jan. None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia have lost all sensible thought. It just means that these places tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say. Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Let us pity these souls and take the high road. Surely, they are nincompoops and aggressive asses...they can't help it. Somewhere along the evolutionary line they missed the boat, the Good Ship Lolli-Sense. They can't help what they are. I think the best course is to tolerate their rants in much the same way an adult will watch a fit-throwing 2- year-old bang his head on the floor: you aren't going to make me get you another popsicle, and the sooner your head hurts, the sooner you will realize it. Yes, we much-maligned "naysayers" have earned a little triumphalism, I think. Most people don't need any depth of knowledge about science or medicine. We can't blame them for that ---that is why we have scientists and why we have doctors, just as we have other kinds of specialists to build our homes and fly our planes. But the problem is the people become disempowered and aren't allowed to think for themselves. They are taught to defer to "experts" and "reliable sources" for everything which leaves them vulnerable. I cannot agree that this is so. Most societies work hard at having a well-educated population. And the wise person does understand their own limitations. When I have a urological or orthopoedic problem I defer to experts in those fields. People should think for themselves because the experts aren't always right and often get used by vested interests to push for dubious purposes. That is true, but it applies equally (at minimum) to those pushing alternative theories and products (including yourself). Whence the assumption that they can be trusted ? Any decision still has to be based upon the available evidence, and if you dismiss the evidence of one side as always tainted you are simply responding to your own biases. Alt.med is mostly alt.med is the leavings of the mainstream, theories that have been well tried out and found wanting. Do you ever take the pains to try and understand why they have been dropped? What we can fault some for is the arrogant assurance that their own half-baked medical beliefs are undoubtedly correct and their refusal to even look at overwhelmingly contrary evidence. The thiomerosal-autism things is only the latest of many dearly held alt theories that have been proved wrong, but that doesn't seem to register either.. I haven't got "arrogant assurance", what I've got is reasoned belief rather than taking at face value everything from "experts" and "reliable sources" But you are taking heaps of matters "at face value" about cell salts. Science offers you ways of ensuring that making sure you are not fooling yourself (meaning that the effects you think you observe are actually placebo- related). In fact that is the main difference between the mainstream and alt.med --not allowing yourself to be fooled for long. You are aware that everything and anything has been credited with healing powers at some time in history? Ever wondered why that should be so, and why no other field of science behaves this way? PM who are, either wittingly or unwittingly, serving the interests of various cartels, where science is twisted and incomplete with all concept of the ether being removed. In a world where knowledge is power, they prefer to keep the people in the dark -- so much easier to control that way. Carole www.cellsalts.net PM |
#16
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
"Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "Carole" wrote in message ... "Peter Moran" wrote in message ... "Mark" wrote in message ... On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote: State's autism rises despite vaccine change snip And yes, I know that the second story contains the idiotic statement "thimerosal -- nearly half of which is made of ethylmercury". I can only assume that the "journalist" studied chemistry at the University of Kentucky (if at all). Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere. Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its [wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James Dean, has its Jan. None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia have lost all sensible thought. It just means that these places tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say. Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Let us pity these souls and take the high road. Surely, they are nincompoops and aggressive asses...they can't help it. Somewhere along the evolutionary line they missed the boat, the Good Ship Lolli-Sense. They can't help what they are. I think the best course is to tolerate their rants in much the same way an adult will watch a fit-throwing 2- year-old bang his head on the floor: you aren't going to make me get you another popsicle, and the sooner your head hurts, the sooner you will realize it. Yes, we much-maligned "naysayers" have earned a little triumphalism, I think. Most people don't need any depth of knowledge about science or medicine. We can't blame them for that ---that is why we have scientists and why we have doctors, just as we have other kinds of specialists to build our homes and fly our planes. But the problem is the people become disempowered and aren't allowed to think for themselves. They are taught to defer to "experts" and "reliable sources" for everything which leaves them vulnerable. I cannot agree that this is so. Most societies work hard at having a well-educated population. And the wise person does understand their own limitations. When I have a urological or orthopoedic problem I defer to experts in those fields. I believe in education, the more the better. However, what has happened today, in our society, is that education has been hijacked by vested interests, same with research. All forms of science are now corrupted. And the problem is that most of the educated ones just go along with the system. People should think for themselves because the experts aren't always right and often get used by vested interests to push for dubious purposes. That is true, but it applies equally (at minimum) to those pushing alternative theories and products (including yourself). That is true, there are plenty is charlatans and misguided people in alternative medicine. Whence the assumption that they can be trusted ? Any decision still has to be based upon the available evidence, and if you dismiss the evidence of one side as always tainted you are simply responding to your own biases. Mostly alt.med is the leavings of the mainstream, theories that have been well tried out and found wanting. Do you ever take the pains to try and understand why they have been dropped? The reason some alternative remedies are dropped isn't because they don't work, but rather they don't fit the mindset of the ruling elite. Anything that challenges their supremacy is a threat and put down. Why would you assume that because therapies are dropped because they don't work? What we can fault some for is the arrogant assurance that their own half-baked medical beliefs are undoubtedly correct and their refusal to even look at overwhelmingly contrary evidence. The thiomerosal-autism things is only the latest of many dearly held alt theories that have been proved wrong, but that doesn't seem to register either.. I haven't got "arrogant assurance", what I've got is reasoned belief rather than taking at face value everything from "experts" and "reliable sources" But you are taking heaps of matters "at face value" about cell salts. Science offers you ways of ensuring that making sure you are not fooling yourself (meaning that the effects you think you observe are placebo- related). The main difference between the mainstream and alternative medicine lies therein. I don't cellsalts at face value. I've tried different alternative remedies, but cellsalts delivers what it claims. Also cellsalts are scientific. There are plenty of studies to show that minerals are needed for vital functions and general wellbeing. The difference between you and me is that if I feel a bit anxious I will take calcium supplements, whereas you will take valium. If I get underarm odour I will take silica tablets, but you will spray on some deodorant, etc. Do you think that valium is an essential ingredient needed by the body, or that underarm deodorant is anything but a coverup? Carole www.cellsalts.net PM who are, either wittingly or unwittingly, serving the interests of various cartels, where science is twisted and incomplete with all concept of the ether being removed. In a world where knowledge is power, they prefer to keep the people in the dark -- so much easier to control that way. Carole www.cellsalts.net PM |
#17
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
"Mark Probert" wrote in message news:JlKgj.1888$xA6.78@trndny09... But the problem is the people become disempowered and aren't allowed to think for themselves. Bull****. Everyone one of your posts, as stupid as they are, are proof that you, and everyone else is "allowed" to think for themselves. If there was any form of "thought control" websites such as Whale.to, Newstarget, and their ilk, would not exist. By their very presence and accessibility by anyone with a computer proves that there is no thought control. They are taught to defer to "experts" and "reliable sources" for everything which leaves them vulnerable. No one is taught that in any school I am familiar with. Listen to experts, people who have studied and researched subjects, and do your own research. If you reject all experts, then the next time you fly in an airplane, ask the guy sitting next to you to replace the pilot, since pilots are experts in flying planes. People should think for themselves because the experts aren't always right and often get used by vested interests to push for dubious purposes. When facts are short, use a conspiracy to fill the void (between the ears). Conspiracies do exist and go on regularly in business. Every meeting behind closed doors, every strategy worked out to beat the opposition, or sell a product that people don't really need could be called a conspiracy. Unfortunately, there are many unscrupulous people in this world, and many of them are very ambitious and will use any means to get ahead, fair or foul. Don't you believe it? Explain why do you think business is all above board, and why there aren't deceptions going on that the public isn't generally aware. Carole www.cellsalts.net |
#18
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
"Mark Probert" wrote in message news:3XKgj.4452$vX6.2095@trndny05... Hey I resent that ... just watch who you call a nutjob. Mark was only going by what you post. There's nothing unscientific about cellsalts, they've been a regular part of naturapathy and alternative medicine for 150 years. Naturapathy and alternative medicine are unscientific. All you've got is a type of science that forbids innovation and suppresses therapies that can't be patented. Not so. It is called real science. Sorry mate. "Real science" has undergone a transformation in the last 100 years, and many lines of research have had the chop through reasons of "national security". National security is a coverall to wipe out anything that the powers that be don't want the public to know about, for whatever reason, not necessarily anything to do with national security, often just inconvenience or a wish to control information. Science as we know it is a pale imitation of what it should be and would have been if the powers that be hadn't got their greasy hands on it and written out so many concepts. Eg, the oil / fossil fuel crisis is an engineered situation. Long ago there would have been invented free energy available to the world, but you can't charge people for that. Tesla had a plan to provide it to the public but Morgan gave it the chop, saying that he couldn't make any money out of it. But people like you can't understand this concept, of a conspiracy so far reaching that it encompasses every avenue of human endeavour. You compare this and that and say its crazy. I say, is it and why? Carole www.cellsalts.net |
#19
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Copyright © 2008 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. Copyright © 2008 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved. |
#20
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Bad news for liars, good news for kids
"Mark" wrote: snip On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote: State's autism rises despite vaccine change snip "Dr." Boyd Hayley" Who??? |
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