Newby

also,breastfeeding would probably deplete your body of nutrients. but the
milk would probably be ok, starving mothers can nurse babies, the babies get
bigger and the mothers get smaller
not that i endorse starving mothers

"Tig" wrote in message
. ..
I know all the benefits and whatnot from formula, and I understand it. I
understand what some of you are trying to tell me.
But even my midwife suggested I formula feed too, as well as breast
feeding.
My dh and I are living in poverty until June, and my body is not getting
what it needs for me or for baby as my midwife said. Im lucky this
pregnancy that so far I have been getting parental support for food while
pregnant but my parents can not afford to help us pay for groceries for
now
on.
My midwife was concerned and spoke with a pediatrician about this. So
formula will also have some of the nutrients that my body doesnt have that
the baby wont get. Trust me, all I eat is rice, mac and cheese and
sometimes
we have cereal.
So for the nutrients the baby wouldnt have enough of, from breastfeeding,
Im
going to supplement sometimes. My midwife suggested me using Avent bottles
or the new playtex nursers since it doesnt encourage that lazy feeding
problem... so I put them on my registry when I had my shower.
Trust me, if we could afford for me to eat fruits/veggies/dairy I would
breastfeed. But right now living off $35 CDN (about $25 us)a month for
groceries is hard as heck for the two of us. Which is only until May/June.
We are here in Canada, so we dont get WIC (I use to live in Utah and heard
of the services there). But here where I live theres nothing but the
foodbank which doesnt even give you fruits/veggies/dairies or bread. They
just give you a small box of canned food , which half of it is expired. My
midwife told me not to go that route again.

Sorry if I have offended anyone.



Tig wrote in message
.. .
Hi there,

Im a newby ... just came from mkp.
In a couple of days I will be induced, and so therefore I am reading up
as
much as I can on breastfeeding.
Now, I've read a lot, and done a lot of thinking as to what I want to
do.
I
am going to breastfeed, but I am also going to formula feed as well
(after
a
couple of weeks of breastfeeding thats when I will start that, but still
b.feed too).
Is there any recomendations on what kind of formula I should try? I was
thinking Nestle Good Start.

Thanks,
Sara

Tig writes:
: Hi there,

: Im a newby ... just came from mkp.
: In a couple of days I will be induced, and so therefore I am reading up as
: much as I can on breastfeeding.

First, is there a particular reason that you are being induced? Is this
your first baby? Medical studies show that waiting for labor to begin on
its own is much less likely to lead to interventions and complications.
Induction is rarely indicated.

: Now, I've read a lot, and done a lot of thinking as to what I want to do. I
: am going to breastfeed, but I am also going to formula feed as well (after a
: couple of weeks of breastfeeding thats when I will start that, but still
: b.feed too).

Why? First I have to applaud your wanting to start the baby out one breastmilk,
but there are a few things you need to consider.

You milk may not come in until anywhere from the 3rd to 5th day after
birth. After that it may take several weeks to establish breastfeeding and
for the baby's nursing to build up your supply. (Your supply is highly
dependent on the amound the baby nurses. If you give formula too early,
it will stop your from producing adquate milk, and you will be forced to
use more formula.

Next, medical studies have shown that children who are fed formula have
a lot more health problems than children who are fed breast milk, not only
in infancy , but well into childhood and as adults. If you want I can
post a bibliography of the studies and the specific health effects they
show.

Finally, starting formula as soon as you are planning is very likely to
to make breastfeeding more difficult because of damage to the supply. If
you decide to start formula later, then it becomes much more difficult than
breastfeeding because of the necessity to clean and transport bottles and
mix formula, etc.

If you plan to breastfeed at all, you may want to rething using forumla
also.

: Is there any recomendations on what kind of formula I should try? I was
: thinking Nestle Good Start.

: Thanks,
: Sara

Good luck,
Larry

Tig wrote:

I know all the benefits and whatnot from formula, and I understand it. I
understand what some of you are trying to tell me.
But even my midwife suggested I formula feed too, as well as breast feeding.
My dh and I are living in poverty until June, and my body is not getting
what it needs for me or for baby as my midwife said. Im lucky this
pregnancy that so far I have been getting parental support for food while
pregnant but my parents can not afford to help us pay for groceries for now
on.
My midwife was concerned and spoke with a pediatrician about this. So
formula will also have some of the nutrients that my body doesnt have that
the baby wont get. Trust me, all I eat is rice, mac and cheese and sometimes
we have cereal.
So for the nutrients the baby wouldnt have enough of, from breastfeeding, Im
going to supplement sometimes. My midwife suggested me using Avent bottles
or the new playtex nursers since it doesnt encourage that lazy feeding
problem... so I put them on my registry when I had my shower.
Trust me, if we could afford for me to eat fruits/veggies/dairy I would
breastfeed. But right now living off $35 CDN (about $25 us)a month for
groceries is hard as heck for the two of us. Which is only until May/June.
We are here in Canada, so we dont get WIC (I use to live in Utah and heard
of the services there). But here where I live theres nothing but the
foodbank which doesnt even give you fruits/veggies/dairies or bread. They
just give you a small box of canned food , which half of it is expired. My
midwife told me not to go that route again.

Sorry if I have offended anyone.

How do you afford internet access? Surely that money could go better
towards decent food.
Seems to me your baby is bad off NOW if you're eating as you say you are.
This plan sounds rather ill-thought out, and based on poor advice, imo.
I would seriously suggest seeking some other opinions from that of your
midwife if she thinks the food bank isn't worth even half a box of
canned foods, and has no other option than suggesting expensive formula
over breastmilk, and isn't aware of nipple confusion issues,and has no
problem with the idea that you're eating kraft dinner, rice and "cereal"
(whatever you mean by that...oatmeal? sunny boy? CornFlakes?). (This
is WITH parental support? What happens when they can't support you?)

This sounds very third world Nestle-ish to me. "don't try to nurse
100%, your baby won't get what it needs, here...take this can of
formula". Why isn't your midwife suggesting other ways to help you?

How are you going to pay for the formula?

Where in Canada do you live? There are homeless shelters that offer hot
lunches in a lot of places, etc.

Geez, even if you go into a grocery store and tell them you have pet
rabbits and get the veggie trimmings you'd be better off. (The
trimmings are fine, just the outer lettuce leaves, bruised fruit and
such. We used to get them for our rabbits and snack ourselves.
Aesthetics, not nutritional value problems)
Church groups? Welfare? Mennonite Center for Newcomers?

Dawn

I got a lot of free formula back when I was 5 months pregnant from a friend
of mine who bought it in bulk, and then her baby was born, and couldnt have
that kind of formula. So they gave it to me. Formula here costs about $6 US
for a can of the powdered kind. We checked on ebay to do what you said a
couple months back, but it seems that the going rate for formula is just
over two dollars on ebay for what we have. And we have about 10 cans of it,
so its not really worth it, as fruits and veggies are expensive here, and it
wouldnt last too long. I can also get a free can of formula every week from
the health dept. So one can I can sell for just over 2 dollars, but in
reality for 2 dollars at the grocery store I can get a pound of apples.
I was also told that if my body doesnt have the nutrients, it cant pass it
on to the baby, so therefore the baby doesnt get everything he needs.

We have thought a lot about this, and have talked to many people about it,
and feel that this is the way we are going to go. B.Feed and formula feed.


Nina wrote in message
t...
also,breastfeeding would probably deplete your body of nutrients. but the
milk would probably be ok, starving mothers can nurse babies, the babies
get
bigger and the mothers get smaller
not that i endorse starving mothers

"Tig" wrote in message
. ..
I know all the benefits and whatnot from formula, and I understand it.
I
understand what some of you are trying to tell me.
But even my midwife suggested I formula feed too, as well as breast
feeding.
My dh and I are living in poverty until June, and my body is not getting
what it needs for me or for baby as my midwife said. Im lucky this
pregnancy that so far I have been getting parental support for food
while
pregnant but my parents can not afford to help us pay for groceries for
now
on.
My midwife was concerned and spoke with a pediatrician about this. So
formula will also have some of the nutrients that my body doesnt have
that
the baby wont get. Trust me, all I eat is rice, mac and cheese and
sometimes
we have cereal.
So for the nutrients the baby wouldnt have enough of, from
breastfeeding,
Im
going to supplement sometimes. My midwife suggested me using Avent
bottles
or the new playtex nursers since it doesnt encourage that lazy feeding
problem... so I put them on my registry when I had my shower.
Trust me, if we could afford for me to eat fruits/veggies/dairy I would
breastfeed. But right now living off $35 CDN (about $25 us)a month for
groceries is hard as heck for the two of us. Which is only until
May/June.
We are here in Canada, so we dont get WIC (I use to live in Utah and
heard
of the services there). But here where I live theres nothing but the
foodbank which doesnt even give you fruits/veggies/dairies or bread.
They
just give you a small box of canned food , which half of it is expired.
My
midwife told me not to go that route again.

Sorry if I have offended anyone.



Tig wrote in message
.. .
Hi there,

Im a newby ... just came from mkp.
In a couple of days I will be induced, and so therefore I am reading
up
as
much as I can on breastfeeding.
Now, I've read a lot, and done a lot of thinking as to what I want to
do.
I
am going to breastfeed, but I am also going to formula feed as well
(after
a
couple of weeks of breastfeeding thats when I will start that, but
still
b.feed too).
Is there any recomendations on what kind of formula I should try? I
was
thinking Nestle Good Start.

Thanks,
Sara

Tig writes:

: But even my midwife suggested I formula feed too, as well as breast feeding.
: My dh and I are living in poverty until June, and my body is not getting
: what it needs for me or for baby as my midwife said. Im lucky this
: pregnancy that so far I have been getting parental support for food while
: pregnant but my parents can not afford to help us pay for groceries for now
: on.

There are several things you don't take into account here. First the cost
of formula is MUCH MORE than the cost of breastfeeding. I don't know how
you are planning to pay for the formula but it is a HELL of a LOT more
expensive than adult food of any kind!

: My midwife was concerned and spoke with a pediatrician about this. So
: formula will also have some of the nutrients that my body doesnt have that
: the baby wont get. Trust me, all I eat is rice, mac and cheese and sometimes
: we have cereal.

Regardless of what nutrients YOU are getting your breastmilk will surely
have better nutrients than formula! Even if you are undernourished, you
will produce better food for your baby than any commercial formula could!

: So for the nutrients the baby wouldnt have enough of, from breastfeeding, Im
: going to supplement sometimes. My midwife suggested me using Avent bottles
: or the new playtex nursers since it doesnt encourage that lazy feeding
: problem... so I put them on my registry when I had my shower.

Some babies have problems with nipple confusion and bottle prefrence
regardless of the type.

: Trust me, if we could afford for me to eat fruits/veggies/dairy I would
: breastfeed. But right now living off $35 CDN (about $25 us)a month for
: groceries is hard as heck for the two of us. Which is only until May/June.
: We are here in Canada, so we dont get WIC (I use to live in Utah and heard
: of the services there). But here where I live theres nothing but the
: foodbank which doesnt even give you fruits/veggies/dairies or bread. They
: just give you a small box of canned food , which half of it is expired. My
: midwife told me not to go that route again.

Again, if you can't get WIC or food, how and where are you going to get the
formula. From a health standpoint, even if you could get free formula, you
should mix and eat it your self, then breastfeed your baby!

: Sorry if I have offended anyone.

Ditto, no one is offended. We just thing your planning is not very
realistic.

Good luck,
Larry

Tig,

Although I think you are getting some bad advice, even from a MONEY
standpoint, I am not at all offended by your answer. It helps us to
understand where you are coming from.

First of all, let me address the money issue:

Have you thought about the fact that formula costs a good deal of money? I
mean, way more than canned or frozen veggies. How on earth do you plan on
feeding enough formula on that amount of $$? That would definitely mean you
and hubby would have to starve. I understand you want the best nutrients
for your baby (more on that in a minute), but if you spent that $$ on good
food and maybe a multivitamin for yourself (there are some cheap ones out
there), you might be doing better by yourself and the baby, plus save some.
If you don't have WIC where you are, have you thought about the money that
nipples, bottles, plastic refills, formula, trash pickup for extra trash,
water and soap to clean the bottles and nipples, all of that together could
cost? I know some of those might not apply to you, but they might.

Is there anything you need help on in money matters? That is truly extreme
poverty, and there might be some websites that could help you stretch what
you have further.. How on earth is someone so poor getting access to a
computer? I'm not doubting you; I've got a friend in almost the exact same
situation. She's pregnant with her second, and she is so glad she
breastfed. It saved her SO much money. I don't want to pry, but isn't
there some way you could bring in some more money?

On the issue of nutrition-- in countries where extreme poverty is the norm,
the UN suggests that breastfeeding (exclusively) is the best way to feed the
baby. It's like pregnancy -- the body will give the baby what it needs, if
at all possible. It might be very wearing and hard on you, though, to be
malnourished and nursing. I know that I need to eat extra when I'm nursing
exclusively, so that is a real concern, but I wouldn't worry about the baby
as much as you.

My heart goes out to you, Tig. Have you nowhere to turn?

Teresa

"Larry McMahan" wrote in message
...
Tig writes:

: But even my midwife suggested I formula feed too, as well as breast
feeding.
: My dh and I are living in poverty until June, and my body is not getting
: what it needs for me or for baby as my midwife said. Im lucky this
: pregnancy that so far I have been getting parental support for food
while
: pregnant but my parents can not afford to help us pay for groceries for
now
: on.

There are several things you don't take into account here. First the cost
of formula is MUCH MORE than the cost of breastfeeding. I don't know how
you are planning to pay for the formula but it is a HELL of a LOT more
expensive than adult food of any kind!

I agree. If I were to get free formula, I'd sell it and buy food.


: My midwife was concerned and spoke with a pediatrician about this. So
: formula will also have some of the nutrients that my body doesnt have
that
: the baby wont get. Trust me, all I eat is rice, mac and cheese and
sometimes
: we have cereal.

Regardless of what nutrients YOU are getting your breastmilk will surely
have better nutrients than formula! Even if you are undernourished, you
will produce better food for your baby than any commercial formula could!
Yup. Babies in the 3rd world do much better on breastmilk than formula. The
body has laid down stores of fat and nutrients just for the purposeof
producing milk, and even in famine, many babies thrive.

Again, if you can't get WIC or food, how and where are you going to get
the
formula. From a health standpoint, even if you could get free formula,
you
should mix and eat it your self, then breastfeed your baby!


I agree. The extra calories it takes to breastfeed equal up to maybe a plate
of beans and rice/day. If I were poor I'd rather feed me AND baby, rather
than just one of us.

"Larry McMahan" wrote

Again, if you can't get WIC or food, how and where are you going to get
the
formula. From a health standpoint, even if you could get free formula,
you
should mix and eat it your self, then breastfeed your baby!

Eeewww....... I agree, but ewwww.

Teresa

"Tig" wrote
I got a lot of free formula back when I was 5 months pregnant from a
friend
of mine who bought it in bulk, and then her baby was born, and couldnt
have
that kind of formula.

Just something to think about. What if your baby can't take that kind,
either? Then you may have messed up your milk supply to get yourself in a
worse bind, money wise. Most of us are urging you to start formula feeding
after about 3 months, not trying to talk you out of formula altogether
(though we probably would that, too, if we thought there was hope). It's
just that any formula can really undermine a breastfeeding relationship if
you introduce it at a few weeks.

snip
We have thought a lot about this, and have talked to many people about it,
and feel that this is the way we are going to go. B.Feed and formula feed.

I understand that. There are just many people on this newsgroup who know
someone who wrecked their breastfeeding relationship by starting to
combination feed too early. I understand your concerns about money, really
I do.

As far as nutrition goes, though, I just wanted to mention this. Frozen
veggies are more nutritious and far cheaper than "fresh" ones -- that is,
ones at the store. Yeah, if you picked them off the plant, you'd get more
nutrition. I just thought you might want to know that, since you are in
money problems. I've been there, and frozen veggies in big bulk bags are
the way to go!

Teresa

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/3156/energy.htm

"
How does maternal nutritional status in turn affect lactation? After 20
years of following the literature, I cannot but agree with the International
Dietary Energy Consultancy Group's 1993 Annual Report to the ACC/SCN: "Human
lactation appears to be very robust, and BMI does not provide a useful
indicator of function at the levels studied so far. Lactation performance
must become compromised when undernutrition is sufficiently severe, but it
appears that this must be in famine or near famine conditions."

Reductions in the quality of breast milk, in breast milk production levels,
and in reduced infant growth have been difficult to find even among
lactating women of poor nutritional status. ..."



"However, many health professionals believe that the supposed problem of
maternal malnutrition inhibiting lactation means that they must recommend
that children receive supplements, often infant formula from a bottle. Even
simplistic interpretations of data on the economic aspects of infant feeding
have led some scientists to speculate that artificial feeding would might be
preferable even in poor settings. It is hardly surprising that many
breastfeeding women are also confused on this issue.

In St. Vincent, West Indies in 1975, I experienced an interesting example of
the potential impact of this confusion. Together with health workers in two
towns, I interviewed mothers of 200 children 1-2 years of age, nearly a
complete sample for those towns. The bottle was given to 99% of these
children from a median age of 2 weeks, but together with the breast until a
median age of sevrage of 7 months. When I asked these women what would
happen if an infant received only breast milk for four or five months, 69%
replied that it would be good for the infant and only 10% said categorically
it would be unhealthy for the child.

When I asked why they did not feed their own child this way, the most common
response was, "I could not afford it." A possible explanation for this
belief lay in the milk company brochures handed out by the local clinics
(and which were almost the only literature the staff themselves had access
to on infant feeding). These stated that lactating women must consume 3000
calories to make enough milk and showed pictures of meat, fish and milk as
examples of the diets lactating women should consume. One woman said, "They
tell me I have to drink milk to make milk I'd might as well give it directly
to the baby!" Another said, "I couldn't afford to buy enough food, so I used
Lactogen [an infant formula] to keep her."

"Tig" wrote in message
. ..
I got a lot of free formula back when I was 5 months pregnant from a
friend
of mine who bought it in bulk, and then her baby was born, and couldnt
have
that kind of formula. So they gave it to me. Formula here costs about $6
US
for a can of the powdered kind. We checked on ebay to do what you said a
couple months back, but it seems that the going rate for formula is just
over two dollars on ebay for what we have. And we have about 10 cans of
it,
so its not really worth it, as fruits and veggies are expensive here, and
it
wouldnt last too long. I can also get a free can of formula every week
from
the health dept. So one can I can sell for just over 2 dollars, but in
reality for 2 dollars at the grocery store I can get a pound of apples.
I was also told that if my body doesnt have the nutrients, it cant pass it
on to the baby, so therefore the baby doesnt get everything he needs.

We have thought a lot about this, and have talked to many people about it,
and feel that this is the way we are going to go. B.Feed and formula feed.


Nina wrote in message
t...
also,breastfeeding would probably deplete your body of nutrients. but
the
milk would probably be ok, starving mothers can nurse babies, the babies
get
bigger and the mothers get smaller
not that i endorse starving mothers

"Tig" wrote in message
. ..
I know all the benefits and whatnot from formula, and I understand it.
I
understand what some of you are trying to tell me.
But even my midwife suggested I formula feed too, as well as breast
feeding.
My dh and I are living in poverty until June, and my body is not
getting
what it needs for me or for baby as my midwife said. Im lucky this
pregnancy that so far I have been getting parental support for food
while
pregnant but my parents can not afford to help us pay for groceries
for
now
on.
My midwife was concerned and spoke with a pediatrician about this. So
formula will also have some of the nutrients that my body doesnt have
that
the baby wont get. Trust me, all I eat is rice, mac and cheese and
sometimes
we have cereal.
So for the nutrients the baby wouldnt have enough of, from
breastfeeding,
Im
going to supplement sometimes. My midwife suggested me using Avent
bottles
or the new playtex nursers since it doesnt encourage that lazy feeding
problem... so I put them on my registry when I had my shower.
Trust me, if we could afford for me to eat fruits/veggies/dairy I
would
breastfeed. But right now living off $35 CDN (about $25 us)a month for
groceries is hard as heck for the two of us. Which is only until
May/June.
We are here in Canada, so we dont get WIC (I use to live in Utah and
heard
of the services there). But here where I live theres nothing but the
foodbank which doesnt even give you fruits/veggies/dairies or bread.
They
just give you a small box of canned food , which half of it is
expired.
My
midwife told me not to go that route again.

Sorry if I have offended anyone.



Tig wrote in message
.. .
Hi there,

Im a newby ... just came from mkp.
In a couple of days I will be induced, and so therefore I am reading
up
as
much as I can on breastfeeding.
Now, I've read a lot, and done a lot of thinking as to what I want
to
do.
I
am going to breastfeed, but I am also going to formula feed as well
(after
a
couple of weeks of breastfeeding thats when I will start that, but
still
b.feed too).
Is there any recomendations on what kind of formula I should try? I
was
thinking Nestle Good Start.

Thanks,
Sara