Minor vent

JennP writes:

: wrote in message ...

: I guess that is OK if you want to do in in your personal parenting
: style, but I don't think it is useful to push this viewpoint in this
: newsgroup, which is more centered on the development of the child.

: So, what you are saying is that a variety of opinions on parenting styles
: and medical choices aren't welcome here? Sure sounds like it.

: JennP.

No. What I am trying to say is that sometimes Sarah seems to be
denigrating some choices, albeit subtly. This is a difficult
point to prove, even if true, but I thought I has seen several
post within a few days that did so, and reacted.

Larry

Nikki writes:

: As far as the original post goes I'm more in agreement with Sarah's post but
: I also think this group should be a place for people to post such vents
: freely when they want to so I didn't respond.

I probably picked the wrong post to criticize Sarah, as I actually agreed
with 90% of what she said, particularly the desire to be able to take a
drink (in moderation) being a normal reaction to the demands of parenting.

What I disagreed with was her excusing what I thought CY had clearly
described as halfhearted attempts at breast feeding over the past 6
months as a "decent attempt." I think this excusing, coupled with her
dismissive tone of the pacifier study are two examples of her not
being firmly supportive breastfeeding and the benefits it infers on
infant health. I don't think these are the only two cases.

I will probably be flamed for this by some, since it is (even by my
standards) a bit confrontational, but I will have to try to get by.

Larry

Akuvikate writes:

: And as one of the other pediatricians posting to this newsgroup I will
: say good for Sarah for standing up and saying these things. Most of
: the time I agree spot on with her.

Kate,

Thank you for speaking up. In spite of your comments above, you were
one of the ones (alath also) whom I was referring to when I said others.

Please participate and say what you think is right, regardless of
whether I (or anyone else) agrees with you. Your dual role as a mother
and a doctor gives you both great insight and great standing, as does
your caring nature for us as well as her.

Thank you,
Larry

Sarah Vaughan writes:

: From the sound of it, your SIL has gone to quite some effort to continue
: breastfeeding for a decent length of time. I think she should be
: commended for that. It's a real shame that people seem to be rushing to
: criticise her instead.

wrote:

You know, Sarah, I don't want to be rude, but compared to a lot of
the other pediatricians and other medical workers that post on this
newsgroup, your postings more often have the tone of an apologist
for standard medical care as opposed to more child centered care.

I guess that is OK if you want to do in in your personal parenting
style, but I don't think it is useful to push this viewpoint in this
newsgroup, which is more centered on the development of the child.

And I am not just responding to this post, but to the overall tone
of your posts throughout the threads you have posted on recently.

I personally find that it makes any advice you give less credible.

Whoa. Personally I am always leery of statements that begin with "I
don't want to be rude but". Also I can't seem to recall reading a
"pushy" post from Sarah, now you on the other hand have a very evident
parenting style which you advocate here. As long as the mis-information
is kept to a minimum I think it's great to have all sorts of
perspectives represented on this group, since everyone's circumstances
are so diverse.

I am an infrequent poster but a frequent reader and I enjoy Sarah's
posts -- they tend to be supportive, non-judgemental, and gently worded
and it seems that in her responses she tries to be mindful of where a
partcular woman/parent might be coming from as opposed to advocating a
one-size-fits-all line. That is a quality I admire in both a medical
professional and a person. Anyway I think you post here more to give
advice than get it (which is fine), and I don't think other readers
require you to be the arbiter of credibility or of what constitutes
"child-centered care".

Elle

writes:

: Too right. I wrotea longer reply to Larry but decided I didn't want to
: get into it too much. I fear that his attitude will drive those away
: who need help but don't subscribe to his particular brand of parenting.

Jeni, I realize that is a potential problem, and I quite often
consciously tone down what I say from what I feel. My sincere
desire is to be helpful. But I come from the view that for at least
the last 60 years we have been brainwashed by an social structure
that does not have the intersts of the child at heart and some
re-education is required, even when it is unpopular.

: I can
: filter out Larryness like white noise but when it starts putting off
: people like Kate then it's a real shame.

I agree. See my reply to Kate.

: Thinking about it I think Larry is doing the posters on here a
: diservice.

I hope that I do not, and when I do I hope that it is dismissed.

: Although there is a culture that is dominant that doesn't
: stop those who follow it giving alternative suggestions that might not
: suit their own style. I could not recall who I gleaned useful advice
: from but I'm sure it has come from a good selection of posters,
: regardless of their parenting style.

My specific complaint with Sarah is that she seemed (to me) to
subtly denigrate views she disagrees with, so I find this quizzical
specifically in my response to her. I must have been quite unclear.

: Jeni

Respectfully,
Larry

I understand you feel differently about being a parent than I do...sorry I
offended. I guess I'm having a hard time walking in her shoes. Shouldn't
have posted that vent here...won't do it again
"Cuddlefish" wrote in message
news:%dwaf.394414$1i.28921@pd7tw2no...
CY wrote:
Don't get too excited here! AFAIK, the kid was fed only once a day on BM
for the past 6 months. My SIL was not at school fulltime, but left my
niece
frequently in the care of anyone who'd take her. Nevertheless, my beef
isn't about the weaning as much as the REASON for it.

What reasons would you not have a beef with?

Many women on this newsgroup have posted over the years how uncomfortable
they get with other people [family and friends] making comments and
passing judgements on their breastfeeding choices. It would solve so many
problems if people instead of judging would exercise some compassion and
understanding of another person's point of view or decision.

I do not like being tied down any more than the next person. I miss my
job, and miss my time alone. Should I have not had kids - who knows? I
love my son dearly and could not imagine life without him. To me, having a
child is not the be all and end all of my life. I want to have a life
outside of motherhood. I presume many, many women feel exactly the same
way.

Jacqueline

Not likely at all - thats something they always do together...apparently
it's no fun otherwise.
"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Anne Rogers" wrote:

F (the one in the
middle) was bemoaning the fact that they couldn't just spontaneously fly
to
Rome, or similar, me on the other had was thrilled as I've had my
children
so young I've not have the time to do these things and I don't miss them.
C
had already stopped breastfeeding and had had whole days away from the
baby,
F was heavily pregnant and planning to mixed feed from about 2 weeks old
(she exclusively breastfed her first, who never accepted a bottle), her
main
reason being she needed the freedom, to be able to go out for an evening,
do
things for herself, that kind of thing.

How bizarre. I don't find that having a *baby* stops you from going
out --
it's having a 4yo that is a problem. The baby sleeps, but the 4yo wants
to be
active.

If I want to go to a movie, the babes-in-arms session is available. Going
to
concerts at the Opera House is less do-able, but we've been to free
outdoor
concerts instead. No plays/comedy, but I wasn't more than an occasional
play-
and comedy-goer anyway.

I'm sorry for the kids, CY. I hope (though I don't think it's likely)
that
the parents take turns getting smashed so that *one* of them is competent
in
case of emergency.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

wrote:
Nikki writes:

: As far as the original post goes I'm more in agreement with Sarah's post but
: I also think this group should be a place for people to post such vents
: freely when they want to so I didn't respond.

I probably picked the wrong post to criticize Sarah, as I actually agreed
with 90% of what she said, particularly the desire to be able to take a
drink (in moderation) being a normal reaction to the demands of parenting.

What I disagreed with was her excusing what I thought CY had clearly
described as halfhearted attempts at breast feeding over the past 6
months as a "decent attempt." I think this excusing, coupled with her
dismissive tone of the pacifier study are two examples of her not
being firmly supportive breastfeeding and the benefits it infers on
infant health. I don't think these are the only two cases.

I will probably be flamed for this by some, since it is (even by my
standards) a bit confrontational, but I will have to try to get by.

Larry

Larry, I replied to both threads with similar sentiments to Sarah. If
you are going to post potentially offensive posts to her, please do it
to me too.

Jacqueline

CY wrote:
I understand you feel differently about being a parent than I do...sorry I
offended. I guess I'm having a hard time walking in her shoes. Shouldn't
have posted that vent here...won't do it again

I didn't totally disagree with your post! And venting is important, so
please don't stop!

I was trying to help show things from the other side... there is always
another side to every story.

Jacqueline

I'm cutting and pasting from Word in case Google eats this. If this
screws up the formatting, I do apologise.

wrote:

You know, Sarah, I don't want to be rude, but compared to a lot of
the other pediatricians and other medical workers that post on this
newsgroup, your postings more often have the tone of an apologist
for standard medical care as opposed to more child centered care.

I'm quite baffled as to how 'standard medical care' got into that
particular either-or. With the exception of the cord-cutting debate,
which was over a year ago and on which I did end up changing my mind, I
can't think of any occasions on which I've suggested standard
medical care that would be detrimental to a child. Could you give me
some examples of what you mean?

As far as parenting style goes, it's quite true that I approach
things from the perspective of what would be best for a particular
family as a whole, rather than focusing specifically on the child.
(One reason for this is that I think that more often than not, it
isn't an either-or. Children are part of families and depend on them
for their emotional well-being - I think that failing to take the
interests of a whole family into account is probably not ultimately in
the best interests of a child.)

I guess that is OK if you want to do in in your personal parenting
style, but I don't think it is useful to push this viewpoint in this
newsgroup, which is more centered on the development of the child.

For you, of course it isn't. You're an experienced parent who's
found a parenting style with which you're very comfortable and which
works very well for your family as a whole. So, obviously, you're
not looking for alternative ways to do things, and there's no reason
why you would find an alternative viewpoint useful.

I wouldn't leap from that to the conclusion that other people don't
find it useful to hear dissenting viewpoints from time to time, though.
I think it can actually be quite helpful to hear about different ways
of doing things rather than just getting a fairly unified perspective
the whole time.

BTW, I can't think of any occasions when I've _pushed_ a particular
viewpoint on childrearing (a how-things-should-be-done viewpoint, I
mean - not general 'live-and-let-live' attitudes on the subject,
which I certainly do aim to push). This is something I do try not to
do - I aim to suggest, rather than push. Again - if you have examples
in mind of times when I've done this, could you specify, please?

And I am not just responding to this post

I would be fairly surprised if you were. An attitude of "OK, so
she's smoking a joint now and again, big deal, whatever" does not
generally tend to get met with "You apologist for standard medical
practice, you!" ;-)


All the best,

Sarah