MA - Deadbeat hysteria

This was published last September, but it still sends a chill down my spine
when I read about how these boneheads are so hell bent on hanging deadbroke
parents (fathers) out to dry. There's an interesting article about a
Plymouth, MA judge who jails "two to four" people a week for not coughing up
their kourt ordered extortion.

The hysteria about so-called deadbeats in MA is still very much alive and
well. So well it's flourishing.

http://www.southofboston.net/special...es/index.shtml


----------------------------------------------------
The only thing necessary for the triumph
of evil is for good men to do nothing.


Edmond Burke

I don't know the cases Personally.. and the article is my First
introduction to them.. However one thing does strike me as a little Odd
down in the states... Incarceration of a NCP for failing to pay Child
Support.

My question is by being in Jail do you think that the NCP will
greatly increase his or Her Earning Potenial for the days that they are
in there..

Just something I always wondered about... I've never heard of Such a
case here in Canada. I could be wrong.. but instead they simply go
through a Garnishment of a persons Wages to ensure the Money is paid.

And we also have laws that dicated in any Garnishment only a Max of
30% may ever be Garnished from a persons Wage. I know some people who
have opted for such an occurance.. to simply have the Child Support
taken off their cheque voluntarily.. so that way to them it's simply a
Deduction.. and they don't even think about it.

SpiderHam77

"SpiderHam77" wrote in message
oups.com...

I don't know the cases Personally.. and the article is my First
introduction to them.. However one thing does strike me as a little Odd
down in the states... Incarceration of a NCP for failing to pay Child
Support.

From what I've been reading over the past several years, is that the courts
seem to think that if they toss you in jail you'll cough up the cash. Well,
this is the same ill-logic as was used to create Debtor's Prisons some
200-odd years ago. Throw them in jail and their family and friends will
come up with the money to cover their debt.

"Family" courts apply the same ill-logic to CS cases - but the forget one
thing - these guys never had the cash to begin with and that locking them in
jail serves on useful purpose! In fact, doing so can often have the exact
opposite effect - loss of one's job, apartment, car/truck and whatever
personal belongings they might not have lost yet. What jail for an NCP
means is, quite simply put, impoverishment.

And this is the exact place the DI (Divorce Industry) wants NCPs to be - in
such destitute straights that they can't fight the laws that have put them
in such deplorable circumstances to begin with. The more NCPs they can put
behind their 8-ball, the better the DI likes it.

In MA, your income is often imputed (made up by the court) to such a level
and your CS payments as well, that if you ever get sick, hurt on the job (or
even at home, etc..), loose your job for ANY reason and a whole host of
other, reasons as to why you'd need to have your CS reduced.. You can forget
it. It will never happen. As a matter of fact the court may even INCREASE
your CS!! Just to give you "incentive" to work harder.

My question is by being in Jail do you think that the NCP will
greatly increase his or Her Earning Potenial for the days that they are
in there..

What amazes me is that any 5 year old child can figure this one out, but the
BIBR (*******s In Black Robes) can't.

Just something I always wondered about... I've never heard of Such a
case here in Canada. I could be wrong.. but instead they simply go
through a Garnishment of a persons Wages to ensure the Money is paid.

I've read stories about Canadians that have had their CS set at such a high
level, that even if they where able to pay it, they'd not have a place to
sleep, or food to eat. One fellow killed himself because they took
everything away from him, left something like $0.75 in his bank account. He
bought a rope and hung himself with it.

And we also have laws that dicated in any Garnishment only a Max of
30% may ever be Garnished from a persons Wage. I know some people who
have opted for such an occurance.. to simply have the Child Support
taken off their cheque voluntarily.. so that way to them it's simply a
Deduction.. and they don't even think about it.

Wage garnishment has, for the most part, been something new down here. MA
has only been using it since the mid-90's. Other states a bit longer, still
more have just started using it as a way to snatch the cash first, ask
questions later (they make mistakes all the time and really don't care who
they get the money from, as long as they get it).

According to Federal law here, a state cannot take more then (someone will
correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure) 50-65% of your take home pay (of course
CS in MA is computed on PRE-TAX income). But MA (and several other states)
have gotten around that by saying that any increase the court makes to your
CS amount is toward the payment of arrears. Then the sky's the limit on
where the BIBR can set your CS payments.

Take a look at my August 11th posting (made around 2:11 AM) it's called, An
Actual, On Going Case. And you'll see what I mean. It all takes place
within the "Family" court system in MA.

Dusty


SpiderHam77

From what I've been reading over the past several years, is that the courts
seem to think that if they toss you in jail you'll cough up the cash. Well,
this is the same ill-logic as was used to create Debtor's Prisons some
200-odd years ago. Throw them in jail and their family and friends will
come up with the money to cover their debt.


I would tend to concur with you except it is amazing how these guys
(and gals) come up with the cash quickly to get out. Some can't, but
most do.

In my state they can post bail, which goes towards the CS debt. They
usually set it at $500 for first timers, the more times the obligor
comes through on contempt the higher the bail.

Notably, the prosecuting atorney give these folks lots of time to
rectify their situation. LOTS of Time and many opportunities. Even
paying a small amount can keep you out of jail

Usually they only go to jail if they fail to apear and then fail to get
the warrant quashed by turning themselves into the court, or long term
failure to correct the deficiancies or take steps to enable the them to
be able to make some Kind of payment. I have seen people drag out the
contempt for years and pay very little.

I understand not making enough to meet the entire obligation, but why
do some people spend YEARS making NO payment whatsoever?

"LLL" wrote in message
oups.com...
From what I've been reading over the past several years, is that the
courts
seem to think that if they toss you in jail you'll cough up the cash.
Well,
this is the same ill-logic as was used to create Debtor's Prisons some
200-odd years ago. Throw them in jail and their family and friends will
come up with the money to cover their debt.


I would tend to concur with you except it is amazing how these guys
(and gals) come up with the cash quickly to get out. Some can't, but
most do.

Ah, well, here's where I disagree. It's the vast majority that can't get
the cash themselves, so their family, friends and at times, church groups
will even pay it. The "Rich Dad with the Young Trophy Wife and a Fast Car"
ploy have had their way on you LLL. The truth is just the opposite - many
don't pay because they just don't have it. And often times, those that do,
don't have it for long.

In my state they can post bail, which goes towards the CS debt. They
usually set it at $500 for first timers, the more times the obligor
comes through on contempt the higher the bail.

In many other states, most notably Massachusetts, bail can be set at 10% or
higher, of the actual arrears. Remember, this so-called arrears also comes
complete with (in MA) an 12% annual interest rate; a 6% "administrative fee"
and (you knew this was coming, the only way they could leave a backdoor to
increase the profits) "other" penilities. This means, if you're unlucky
enough to have been divorced in MA - an annual 18% increase in the total
amount due gets tacked on to the "actual" cost of the arrears. Unless I'm
mistaken, MA has the highest (or one of the highest) "interest rate" that
can be attached to an arrears. And it adds up fast. They plan on it.

Notably, the prosecuting atorney give these folks lots of time to
rectify their situation. LOTS of Time and many opportunities. Even
paying a small amount can keep you out of jail

Not so in MA. In many instances you need to pull the whole amount outta
thin air or you don't get to pass Go - you go directly to jail. Oh, they
will help you get on to one of their "payment plans" - your monthly CS plus
25% more to pay down the arrears.

Look at it this way.. You have an arrears of say, $20,000. You've been laid
off from work, not because your a screw up, the company went under or moved
your job to China where they can pay someone 5 cents on the dollar to do the
same job. OK, still with me? Good.

OK, you've lost your job and there's little in your field unless you can go
overseas. So, you head to court to get a "temporary" reduction in your CS
payments. You tell you're story to the judge, show him documents from HR
that verify your story, even show him newspaper clippings that the place is
insolvent. But the judge doesn't listen. Why? Hell son, your his cash
cow!! He's got no reason to let you get out of paying a dime!!

So, he decides to give you "incentive". He raises your CS.

You appeal. It gets shot down by his buddy judge in the next room.

You go back a few months later and try again - same results, your CS is
jacked up again. Not that the judge cares, he doesn't. Soon, your arrears
piles up. Aided by an interest rate of 18% it rises fast. Now you owe more
then $5000, so the state suspends your drivers' license (or won't renew it
or both) and that nice new job you just got (20 miles away) is soon to
become history - unless you keep driving.

Now, if you get caught driving without a license what do you think is going
to happen? Well, driving on a suspended license is a state felony. So is
driving on an expired license. Either of which means an instant trip to
Hotel Graybar. Or you can (if caught) be hit with both felonies at the same
time. Now (here's where it gets even more fun!), you continue to drive to
work - you do need to a roof over your head, food on the table, gas in the
car and make some sort of payment to the state. But it's a holiday weekend
and the cops are out thick as thieves looking for drunk drivers. They have
a roadblock setup and they ask you for your papers.. Now what? You go to
jail.

The cops nab you for both license felonies - and to make matters worse -
non-payment of CS is both a FEDERAL and STATE felony, too!! Now they have
you up on four (4) felony charges. and you ain't gettin' outta the hole for
a long time. But your CS bill keeps coming and your arrears keeps mounting
up. When you get out, they toss you right back in for failure to pay -
again.

There's almost no hope of ever getting out from under and you're in a
proverbial Catch-22. Sound like fun to you? This is how they keep the
system going. This is how they insure that they can keep running to
Congress to get more taxpayer money and justify their jobs.

"Deadbeat Dads" don't magically appear from thin air - the state creates
them.

And gals? AND GALS? Just how many women have been jailed for
failure to pay so-called "child support" in the U.S. of A? In the first
place, it is extremely unusual for mothers not to have custody. Secondly,
in the handful of situations where they don't have custody, it is even more
unusual for mother to be under any obligation to pay money to the fathers.

Anyone who can find a mother in jail for failure to pay CS should
immediately get in touch with Ripley's Believe It or Not. I'll act as her
agent, for my usual 10 percent commission. Any such woman could be put on
exhibit as a freak every bit a weird as the bearded lady. The fees she
receives should be perfectly adequate to take care of her CS obligation.



"LLL" wrote in message
oups.com...
From what I've been reading over the past several years, is that the
courts
seem to think that if they toss you in jail you'll cough up the cash.
Well,
this is the same ill-logic as was used to create Debtor's Prisons some
200-odd years ago. Throw them in jail and their family and friends will
come up with the money to cover their debt.


I would tend to concur with you except it is amazing how these guys
(and gals) come up with the cash quickly to get out. Some can't, but
most do.

In my state they can post bail, which goes towards the CS debt. They
usually set it at $500 for first timers, the more times the obligor
comes through on contempt the higher the bail.

Notably, the prosecuting atorney give these folks lots of time to
rectify their situation. LOTS of Time and many opportunities. Even
paying a small amount can keep you out of jail

Usually they only go to jail if they fail to apear and then fail to get
the warrant quashed by turning themselves into the court, or long term
failure to correct the deficiancies or take steps to enable the them to
be able to make some Kind of payment. I have seen people drag out the
contempt for years and pay very little.

I understand not making enough to meet the entire obligation, but why
do some people spend YEARS making NO payment whatsoever?

Look at it this way.. You have an arrears of say, $20,000. You've been laid off from work, not because your a screw up, the company went under or moved
your job to China where they can pay someone 5 cents on the dollar to do the
same job. OK, still with me? Good.


Let's see, at 20K in arrears, if your payment was $500 per month, it
would take 40 months or 3 1/3 years to rack up a 20K debt.

I suppose it is possible to be totally out of work for 3 1/3 years in
this economy, but as the welfare to work program has shown that single
mothers with no education can find work when pressured albeit, not for
much pay.

My point is this: does this non-paying parent have absolutely no money
in her pocket for 3 1/2 years, and does not work even a day. Yea sure
if she is a homeless mentally ill person.

But a person clever enough to file a pleading in court, can surely find
SOME work, even if it is low paying.

Part of my point is this: why not pay a little? Your child still needs
the support. In my county if you are paying just a little, you usually
will not go to jail (there are exceptions to this rule).Paying just a
little gets the druver's license re-instated.

If this is not true in your state lobby for some incremental change.
Just bashing the whole system will get you nowhere with your
legislator. I agree that long prison terms do little but most people
can post a modest amount of bail, so make the bail lower. Some people
get the point after a few hours in jail. Only a tiny minority need
significant time to get their attention.

Anyone who can find a mother in jail for failure to pay CS should
immediately get in touch with Ripley's Believe It or Not. I'll act as her
agent, for my usual 10 percent commission. Any such woman could be put on
exhibit as a freak every bit a weird as the bearded lady. The fees she
receives should be perfectly adequate to take care of her CS obligation.

Weel these people are not in jail yet, but the government can find
them, they will be.

See e.g., http://www.mostwanted.dshs.wa.gov/


I said gals in an attempt to make all you folks who are sensitive to
the deadbeat "dad" thing, think I was not just picking on males. In my
experience females are as likely as males to be totally out of
compliance with their support orders.

NO ONE answered my question: why not pay something, anything on your
child support obligations. WHY is this so hard to answer.

"LLL" wrote in message
oups.com...
NO ONE answered my question: why not pay something, anything on your
child support obligations. WHY is this so hard to answer.

When the state has taken everything away, what are you supposed to send to
them?