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#21
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This is the 3rd time I've tried responding to this post; hope to see
it posted this time! "Rosalie B." wrote in message . .. If we weren't going to allow him to go, then there was no point in getting his opinion. Only if we felt we would allow him would we then consult him and let him decide whether or not to go. However, I did tell him after it was decided once and for all that he wasn't going that he had been invited. He was angry with us. sigh I don't blame him a bit. And actually his dad should have told him since it was his dad that didn't let him go. There's no point in your taking the heat. He should have to justify himself to his kid. True. The only reason I can think of NOT to do it that way is if you are afraid that this will be another in a long line of unreasonablenesses which will eventually drive the father and son apart. Nah. By the way, I don't see my DH's feeling about this as out-of-line unreasonable in a way that is potentially damaging to my son or their relationship. I think I would have been OK with allowing my son to go, if he had decided he wanted to (but I would have hated him being away and in others' care for so long). But I think this was a Big Thing and most definitely not an obvious "yes." As hard as it may be for some here to believe, I do know a few seemingly normal people who are "further out" than we (well, my DH) are about their kids being in others' care for overnights or longer. I think there's always a reason to get a 9-yo's opinion about something that may or may not impact their lives, even if it turns out that it doesn't. One big reason is that it means you trust and value his opinions. I think the message you just sent your son is that what he thinks and feels is irrelevant as far as planning his life. It won't work that way. His opinions and feelings are freely shared and taken quite seriously around here. However, we reserve the right to still make certain decisions for him. There are and will continue for years to be some issues about which he will not be able to decide for himself. To put his anger in context, that same day, he was also angry with me for not allowing him to go to the pool even though he had a very bad, deep cut that was not yet scabbed over. I sure felt badly for him, and told him so, but I simply could not allow him to make the decision in this case. I don't see his anger over the pool as being any different than his anger over the trip. Both were short-lived, by the way. A good question would be: at what age do his feelings/thoughts become relevant and important? His feelings about this and every other issue are relevant and important, but in some cases, such as this one, they are not the deciding factor or even one of the deciding factors in whether or not he is *allowed* to go. (Of course, if we had decided it was *OK* for him to go, then he could have decided if he *wanted* to go.) Scott DD 11 and DS 8 Actually, what struck me about this is that you didn't ask his opinion, or even offer to let him tell you his thoughts before you decided -- but told him AFTER you'd decided he couldn't go that he'd been invited and the answer was no! What was the point of telling him about it after you had decided he couldn't go? That just sounds mean -- unless I'm misunderstanding your post, and you know he DID know about the invitation. I told him because I'm assuming he will find out about the invitation the next time he sees the boy. I felt it would have been mean to tell him *before* we had decided whether it was even an option. I don't get that logic. Would you bring out candy to your kids and say, "So, I'm thinking of letting you have some candy. Uh, no, I've decided you can't. YANK." Now, THAT sounds mean to me. Better to decide first whether or not they can have the candy and then bring it out if they're allowed. They can then refuse if they want. In which case I'm surprised he wasn't lobbying, even without you asking his opinion on the matter; I know my kids would not have been shy about letting me know what they thought. Yes I completely agree. Although if the other mom did as I think I would prefer, she would have gone to the parents first, and possibly since school is out, the other kid might not have actually told the kid of the OP. This isn't a school friend. I'm sure my son will see this boy within a week. And the flaw I see in the post about the dream about running out of fuel is --- why didn't you take some precautions not to run out of fuel? Like not going as far, or taking extra. Just to clarify: I am the OP, but not the person who used a dream to make a decision. That's not my MO. |
#22
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Nevermind wrote:
This is the 3rd time I've tried responding to this post; hope to see it posted this time! What was the point of telling him about it after you had decided he couldn't go? That just sounds mean -- unless I'm misunderstanding your post, and you know he DID know about the invitation. I told him because I'm assuming he will find out about the invitation the next time he sees the boy. I felt it would have been mean to tell him *before* we had decided whether it was even an option. I don't get that logic. Would you bring out candy to your kids and say, "So, I'm thinking of letting you have some candy. Uh, no, I've decided you can't. YANK." Now, THAT sounds mean to me. Better to decide first whether or not they can have the candy and then bring it out if they're allowed. They can then refuse if they want. Well, it seems to me the two things are completely different. For a BIG decision, like going away, I think it helps kids to see how you decide whether they can or cannot do something. They'll get a feel for those things that you think are important, and how you evaluate options and come to make decisions. They can also learn how to argue a case. I think those are important skills to learn. In your case, your child could have learned about trusting 'gut' feelings over more tangible arguments. Or they just could've learned about 'Because we're your parents and say so', which I guess is what he learned here. Seeing the decision process ongoing is more valuable than talking about it afterwards, IMO. That seems to be where we differ. For trivial things like candy, well, on the rare occasions when we have candy in the house, and DD or DS ask if they can have some [they still ask -- wonder how long that will last ], the first thing I ask is when they last had candy, when they last ate, are they really hungry, or just bored. Really, I can be quite the inquisitor. But they need to have a good reason, although sometimes 'Just because I want some' does work. But at least they know how my convoluted evaluation system works candy Scott DD 11 and DS 8 |
#23
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Scott wrote
Well, it seems to me the two things are completely different. For a BIG decision, like going away, I think it helps kids to see how you decide whether they can or cannot do something. They'll get a feel for those things that you think are important, and how you evaluate options and come to make decisions. They can also learn how to argue a case. I think those are important skills to learn. In your case, your child could have learned about trusting 'gut' feelings over more tangible arguments. Or they just could've learned about 'Because we're your parents and say so', which I guess is what he learned here. Not at all; I didn't give "because we said so" as the reason; I told him the real reasons. To me, what you are suggesting sounds like a mean game: let the kid argue his big case, even though there's no chance he can win it. Why raise his hopes? Seeing the decision process ongoing is more valuable than talking about it afterwards, IMO. That seems to be where we differ. I do think it's educational to know what factors went into a decision, but I don't think it matters *when* the child learns what the factors were --when the process is being decided or afterward. And any benefit that might accrue would be outweighed, for me, by the added pain that would have been inflicted on him by having to wait around biting his fingernails, only to be disappointed. |
#24
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#25
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Nevermind wrote:
Scott wrote Well, it seems to me the two things are completely different. For a BIG decision, like going away, I think it helps kids to see how you decide whether they can or cannot do something. They'll get a feel for those things that you think are important, and how you evaluate options and come to make decisions. They can also learn how to argue a case. I think those are important skills to learn. In your case, your child could have learned about trusting 'gut' feelings over more tangible arguments. Or they just could've learned about 'Because we're your parents and say so', which I guess is what he learned here. Not at all; I didn't give "because we said so" as the reason; I told him the real reasons. To me, what you are suggesting sounds like a mean game: let the kid argue his big case, even though there's no chance he can win it. Why raise his hopes? Seeing the decision process ongoing is more valuable than talking about it afterwards, IMO. That seems to be where we differ. I do think it's educational to know what factors went into a decision, but I don't think it matters *when* the child learns what the factors were --when the process is being decided or afterward. And any benefit that might accrue would be outweighed, for me, by the added pain that would have been inflicted on him by having to wait around biting his fingernails, only to be disappointed. A good skill, IMO, is learning how to deal with the stress of both waiting around to learn about something that may or may not happen and handling the fallout when a raised expectation is not met. That's not to say it's easy being around an 11-yo who's sulking Scott DD 11 and DS 8 |
#26
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On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:36:12 EDT, dragonlady
wrote: The biggest difference is if you tell him BEFORE you make up your mind, you can honestly say, "There's an invitation, and we're leaning towards not letting you go, but wondered if you had anything you'd like to say about it before we make a final decision." One of three things will happen: 1 - He'll tell you he doesn't want to go, anyway -- in which case you can stop considering it. 2 - He'll lobby to go, and manage to find an argument that you find persuasive. Or maybe he won't know right away either, and you'll be giving him the gift of some time to explore the idea, imagine it both ways, and put into words some of the good points and bad points. It seems to me that our kids were/are more likely to acknowledge both sides of an issue themselves if we let them know we hadn't decided yet. I also like the idea of involving them in the problem-solving. It's really valuable to help kids recognize their own needs in things like pacing and privacy, so that they can start learning how to manage these without (much) parental intervention. "When you and Greg play at our house, you always play active games and when he goes home, you watch TV. What could you do to take a break if you were staying at Greg's, and you wanted some quiet time?" Maybe your son will be more willing to acknowledge his own needs and begin to tackle the questions of how to adapt, if you don't treat them as an obstacle or handicap. 3 - He'll lobby to go, but NOT find an argument or limitation that you find persuasive. However, at least he will feel that his input was heard and considered, and you might even have a chance to negotiate or discuss what sorts of circumstances might help you change your mind -- what sorts of signs of maturity from him you are looking for, or what sorts of trips might be OK. The only reason to NOT tell him while you are still considering it is if you do NOT listen to what he has to say. Even if you are 95% certain you know what your answer is going to be, you missed an opportunity to have a real discussion with him, and to let him see what sorts of things you were considering. You also get to find out what kinds of things he worries about - not knowing how to telephone long distance, or wetting the bed, or Greg making fun of him, or missing activities at home, or getting in trouble with Greg's parents - maybe things you hadn't even considered. Louise |
#27
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I'm the mom of three (13, 10 and 6) and the oldest two started at
summer camps (the sleep over kind) at age 8, going away for 2 weeks. Only you know your son, but all I can say is my kids did just fine - in fact, I personally think it was good for the boys (on top of them having a blast and loving being there, having people to play with and an endless supply of activities and fun stuff to do). From this mom's perspective, nothing like being away from home for a little bit to learn to feel independent (and discover you CAN survive a few days away from home), look after your own stuff, eat what everyone else is eating, learn how other people do things (i.e. different routines, different ways), and generally learn to go with the flow etc. I think if truth be known, I had more trepidations than they did, and they were much more responsible and mature than I gave them credit for (I think I might have been babying them a bit more than necessary). We're certainly a lot more protective of our kids than our parents were with us - and sometimes that is not a good thing for a kid developing a sense of self beyond the family. If your son is with someone he knows and is friends with, its less daunting than going to camp with strangers. If you know the family and trust them, I'd let the kid go for it if he wants to. I'm presuming he could call home every now and then if he wanted to. My daughter (6) has been on weekend "Sparks" - sort of junior brownies - trips for 2 nights away, and she did fine with that too - and she's chomping at the bit for 2 summers from now when she gets to go to camp as well. My vote would be to let the kid go if he wants to go. Mary G. |
#28
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In article , ohgosh1995
@yahoo.com says... My 9 YO has been invited to go about 12 hours away for an entire week with the family of a friend of his. This friend is a good friend, but not someone he spends a ton of time with. Two overnight get-togethers have gone well. My son is very sociable but also gets cranky and needs alone time on a regular basis. The family is not an issue; I trust them safety-wise, and they're also nice people. However, 9 seems too young to me to have a child be that far away from home for an entire week, and I worry about him getting sick of the family (his friend and two younger sisters, mom, and dad) half-way through the week. Problem is, the place they're going is a great place to go, both fun and educational. I feel guilty about not letting him go, both because I know it would be a great place for him to go (not that that means he has to go this year) and because the other mother really wants him to go for her son's sake. Any thoughts? Are we just being babies about our "baby"? If the kid wants to go let him go. You trust everything safety-wise. The other stuff is really insignificant. If he hates it, you tell him, "We left it up to you. You didn't have to go." You're worried about him needing alone time and such. That is definitely babying him. If he gets cranky, then he's the other people's responsibility then, and they wanted him along. You can politely warn them about that, but what do you care if he is cranky and annoyed? You'll be home. He'll be 12 hours away. It'll be good for him. It's only a week. Leave it up to the kid. AEM |
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