Special needs kids and family relationships/Vent, questions, I don't know :)

Today I had a meeting with DD2's teachers about kindergarten placement next
year. DD2 has an autism spectrum disorder and has been in the developmental
preschool of our local school district for 2 years. What they've done for
her is nothing short of amazing. She speaks, she socializes, she has a
couple friends and her physical delays are almost non existent now. DH has
always been very reluctant in regards to her diagnosis, her education, any
of the therapies she's received. He hated the fact she would have to ride a
special bus to the school and he's attended one conference in 2 years with
DD's teachers. Some of that is based on his job, but mostly because he
refuses to admit there's anything wrong with her outside of behavioral
issues.

I wrote him an email today telling him that the teachers and I had come to
an agreement DD would remain in special education for kindergarten with
integration in the "typical" kindergarten 2-3 times a week, and DH is very
upset. He wants her out of special education. I know that a lot of his
feelings towards the program are based on his family's ignorance and denial
of any problems with DD, but I don't know what to do. I responded by
telling him he needed to step back and prioritize.

Most of DD's issues are social, and my main fear in a "typical" class is
that there will be 20-24 kids in the class. DD cannot function in large
groups. It will be horrible. He thinks if we push her into it she'll just
get used to it and be ok. How can I make him see that's cruel? It won't
help her learn and it won't be good for us at home either. Teachers have
offered to talk to him when he's home, but he's done that and seems to go in
one ear and out the other. I've printed out information on Asperger's for
him, and I doubt he's ever read it. He's not home very often so he really
doesn't see much in terms of her development in comparison with the other
kids'. I'm really at a loss now.. any ideas?

TIA,
Denise

First of all Denise, you have my emphathy. (((((Hugs))) I totally can
understand the husband's denial of any kind of problems with children. My
husband has fought me tooth and nail for testing on our youngest. I went
ahead and did it anyway because I felt that there was something going on. I
had to have piece of mind.

My first inclination would be to tell your husband to stuff it and that he
isn't the one that has to deal with it on a daily basis and you do. But, I
realize this isn't a very good way to handle it. I know that I would go
ahead and put her in the special ed. but somehow I would have to pull rank
and say let's try it my way for a while and see how things go. I would try
to find out what is the deep-seated problem your husband is having and try
to get to the bottom of it. When he does come home, would he be willing to
observe your daughter in class to see how she is doing. He may see for
himself that the class is not filled with kids that maybe are scary to him.
I bet he visualizes this sort of class as kids with more severe problems
and/or handicaps and he doesn't want his daughter labeled as such. I don't
know how, but your husband does need to understand that there is a real
problem here and that you feel the way you are handling it is the right
decision for now. She may not always have to be in special ed and she may be
able to move on in a more traditional class. Good luck. I realize I haven't
helped you in any way, but you have support.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Denise Anderson" wrote in message
news:QCDRd.42116$uc.16855@trnddc04...
Today I had a meeting with DD2's teachers about kindergarten placement
next
year. DD2 has an autism spectrum disorder and has been in the
developmental
preschool of our local school district for 2 years. What they've done for
her is nothing short of amazing. She speaks, she socializes, she has a
couple friends and her physical delays are almost non existent now. DH
has
always been very reluctant in regards to her diagnosis, her education, any
of the therapies she's received. He hated the fact she would have to ride
a
special bus to the school and he's attended one conference in 2 years with
DD's teachers. Some of that is based on his job, but mostly because he
refuses to admit there's anything wrong with her outside of behavioral
issues.

I wrote him an email today telling him that the teachers and I had come to
an agreement DD would remain in special education for kindergarten with
integration in the "typical" kindergarten 2-3 times a week, and DH is very
upset. He wants her out of special education. I know that a lot of his
feelings towards the program are based on his family's ignorance and
denial
of any problems with DD, but I don't know what to do. I responded by
telling him he needed to step back and prioritize.

Most of DD's issues are social, and my main fear in a "typical" class is
that there will be 20-24 kids in the class. DD cannot function in large
groups. It will be horrible. He thinks if we push her into it she'll
just
get used to it and be ok. How can I make him see that's cruel? It won't
help her learn and it won't be good for us at home either. Teachers have
offered to talk to him when he's home, but he's done that and seems to go
in
one ear and out the other. I've printed out information on Asperger's for
him, and I doubt he's ever read it. He's not home very often so he really
doesn't see much in terms of her development in comparison with the other
kids'. I'm really at a loss now.. any ideas?

TIA,
Denise

Denise Anderson wrote:



Most of DD's issues are social, and my main fear in a "typical" class is
that there will be 20-24 kids in the class. DD cannot function in large
groups. It will be horrible. He thinks if we push her into it she'll just
get used to it and be ok. How can I make him see that's cruel? It won't
help her learn and it won't be good for us at home either. Teachers have
offered to talk to him when he's home, but he's done that and seems to go in
one ear and out the other. I've printed out information on Asperger's for
him, and I doubt he's ever read it. He's not home very often so he really
doesn't see much in terms of her development in comparison with the other
kids'. I'm really at a loss now.. any ideas?

TIA,
Denise



Denise, I'm sorry you're going through a tough time with this; but I'm
with you - it sounds like staying with special ed. right now is the best
thing for your daughter.

Just piggybacking off something Sue said - I'd probably present this as
something we're going to try, at least for now. She'll have the
integration in a typical classroom a few times a week, so you'll
actually be able to see how she does there. It might be better than
you think, it might be worse than he thinks. Either way, it seems to me
that easing her into a regular classroom would almost have to be
preferable to just putting her in to sink or swim.

Clisby

"Denise Anderson" wrote in
news:QCDRd.42116$uc.16855@trnddc04:
Most of DD's issues are social, and my main fear in a
"typical" class is that there will be 20-24 kids in the
class. DD cannot function in large groups. It will be
horrible. He thinks if we push her into it she'll just get
used to it and be ok. How can I make him see that's cruel?

that is not only cruel, it's likely to cause a huge setback in
her behavior & development.

It won't help her learn and it won't be good for us at
home either. Teachers have offered to talk to him when
he's home, but he's done that and seems to go in one ear
and out the other. I've printed out information on
Asperger's for him, and I doubt he's ever read it. He's
not home very often so he really doesn't see much in terms
of her development in comparison with the other kids'. I'm
really at a loss now.. any ideas?

if he's not home often & refuses to be involved, do what is
right for the child & leave him out of it. as a probably
autistic mom of a probably autistic preschooler myself, i would
never subject a spectrum kid to 'regular' classrooms before they
were ready. i think you are right to ease her into mainstream
very slowly.
i have no suggestions on getting your husband past the denial
stage. if your daughter is high functioning, it makes that more
difficult. Tom was around for all the EI OT & speech sessions
for Boo. he attended a couple of the IEP meetings. he was in
denial for most of it, but couldn't argue that therapy was
working. we did mutually agree to put Boo in a Montessori
preschool rather than the DD preschool though. the DD preschool
set off a lot of my chemical sensitivities (stunk of mildew,
mothballs & formaldyhide carpets) & had horrible acoustics, so
i figured it was a bad place for a kid with sensory issues,
especially since i think he has some auditory processing issues
going on too.
Boo is doing wonderfully in the Montessori school, although it
took him a while to settle in enough to participate actively. he
is a keen observer & was picking things up right away, but
preferred to sit in his rocking chair & just watch for the first
half of the first year. we are going to keep him in the
preschool next year (he'll be 5), but may go to a full day to
start preparing him for kindergarten (if we don't move. if we
move, i'm probably homeschooling)
lee

Denise Anderson wrote:
I wrote him an email today telling him that the teachers and I had
come to an agreement DD would remain in special education for
kindergarten with integration in the "typical" kindergarten 2-3 times
a week, and DH is very upset. He wants her out of special education.

Oh Denise :-( I'm sorry you are having to deal with another stressful
situation!! This seems like such a good compromise for him and smooth
transition for your dd. If you reassured him that she'd spend more and more
time in the typical kindergarten (if that is the plan) as she is adjusting
would that help at all? Is the school behind full integration at some
point...is that the goal? I'm all for kids receiving services and
accommodations in their regular classrooms but you don't want a sink or swim
situation either! If the future plan is full integration then make sure he
knows that! Perhaps if you explained that if she is put in the typical
classroom full time straight away, with no adjustment or transition from a
more familiar arrangement, and she has a really difficult time with it what
will happen? 1) she'll be so overwhelmed with the adjustment she won't learn
anything 2) She'll dislike school and that is hard to overcome 3) She'll
most likely have behavior troubles and that leads to a very difficult time
socially. You can't turn back the clock on that. By taking this year to
support her with a positive start, you are setting the ground work for
future success in typical environments. If you start off will all the above
troubles it will take you 2 years and three times as much work to make up
for it. I know *you* know all that :-), I'm just throwing out ideas of ways
to explain it to dh. Maybe if the IEP included a concrete *plan* for how
she'll spend more and more time in the typical classroom, rather then less
and less he'd be more supportive. It happens to turn out to be less and
less time way to often and if your dh knows that he's got reason to be
concerned....but not reason to be anti-services, which would clearly be a
poor choice.

Also, maybe the school could do some video taping of her time in the regular
classroom. When he is able, he would be able to see how she is doing. If
she is doing well, then by all means, increase her time there w/appropriate
supports and accommodations along the way but if she is struggling, he will
be able to see it first hand.

--
Nikki

In QCDRd.42116$uc.16855@trnddc04,
Denise Anderson wrote:

*get used to it and be ok. How can I make him see that's cruel? It won't
*help her learn and it won't be good for us at home either. Teachers have
*offered to talk to him when he's home, but he's done that and seems to go in
*one ear and out the other. I've printed out information on Asperger's for
*him, and I doubt he's ever read it. He's not home very often so he really
*doesn't see much in terms of her development in comparison with the other
*kids'. I'm really at a loss now.. any ideas?

Has the pediatrician talked to him about it? Would he accept the diagnosis
better from a doctor?

--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx

Denise Anderson wrote:
He's not home very often so he really
doesn't see much in terms of her development in comparison with the
other
kids'. I'm really at a loss now.. any ideas?

You're in a tough situation. You really need your DH on the same page
with you here. I'd hate to see this tear the family apart. That stress
would not be good on your DD either.

When I've had sorta similar disagreements with my ex (who was also
never at home), I would make a deal with him. I'd tell him I was open
to other approaches as long as I felt he'd done his research. I'd
gently suggest that he start by talking to the same set of experts
you've been talking to. Then, if he still differs in his opinion, go
out and find his own experts to talk to. Let's lay it all out on the
table, I promise I'll also keep an open mind, take the emotion out of
the decision, and then work together to come to a decision that we can
*both* agree upon.

Right now we're going through the camp disagreement. In the 11th hour
this year, he suggested that we not send the kids to the usual camp
this summer, but find another, less expensive one. This irked me to no
end - I spent a lot of cycles a few years back, researching camps,
visiting them, weighing all the pluses and minuses, making sure I found
one that met his needs, my needs, the kids needs, etc. And the deadline
for the applications were upon us. I didn't want to miss the deadline
and wind up with no camp at all while we were too busy debating the
issue.

So I told him, very politely, "Fine. I'll pay the deposit for now. If
you want to go out and do the research for an alternative, be my guess.
I'll keep an open mind and if you find a better one, I'll eat the
deposit myself."

Of course, he's done nothing to research alternative camps. I think he
expected that I would do all the legwork again!

jen

In article .com, shinypenny
says...


Right now we're going through the camp disagreement. In the 11th hour
this year, he suggested that we not send the kids to the usual camp
this summer, but find another, less expensive one. This irked me to no
end - I spent a lot of cycles a few years back, researching camps,
visiting them, weighing all the pluses and minuses, making sure I found
one that met his needs, my needs, the kids needs, etc. And the deadline
for the applications were upon us. I didn't want to miss the deadline
and wind up with no camp at all while we were too busy debating the
issue.

So I told him, very politely, "Fine. I'll pay the deposit for now. If
you want to go out and do the research for an alternative, be my guess.
I'll keep an open mind and if you find a better one, I'll eat the
deposit myself."

Wow, that's generous. Although my guess is you know you would have to eat it
anyway....

I'd have deferred it to the following year, giving him a decision deadline. But
I'm not in your situation.


Of course, he's done nothing to research alternative camps. I think he
expected that I would do all the legwork again!

Does he think any research is necessary beyond:

$$$newcamp $$$currentcamp

Banty

Denise Anderson wrote:


Most of DD's issues are social, and my main fear in a "typical" class is
that there will be 20-24 kids in the class. DD cannot function in large
groups. It will be horrible. He thinks if we push her into it she'll just
get used to it and be ok. How can I make him see that's cruel? It won't
help her learn and it won't be good for us at home either. Teachers have
offered to talk to him when he's home, but he's done that and seems to go in
one ear and out the other. I've printed out information on Asperger's for
him, and I doubt he's ever read it. He's not home very often so he really
doesn't see much in terms of her development in comparison with the other
kids'. I'm really at a loss now.. any ideas?

Honestly, I'd be pretty ****ed off and would probably tell
him when he chose to spend the time to educate himself sufficiently
on the issues, *then* you would entertain his criticisms of the
choices you have made in consultation with the appropriate
professionals. If he's just going to speak off the cuff, then
his disagreement is founded on too little information. Since
he isn't going to be around to deal with the fallout, then
he doesn't get to tell you to do it differently without darned
good information to base his insistence on.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Banty wrote:
So I told him, very politely, "Fine. I'll pay the deposit for now.
If
you want to go out and do the research for an alternative, be my
guess.
I'll keep an open mind and if you find a better one, I'll eat the
deposit myself."

Wow, that's generous. Although my guess is you know you would have
to eat it
anyway....

I think you meant "wouldn't" have to eat it, right?

Yeah, there was an element of that. But I did try to reframe my mind
and keep it as open as possible. If he actually did do all the legwork,
and find a better alternative, I *am* willing to entertain it. I want
his help. I don't want to raise the children alone. If he went to all
that trouble, it would be totally worth eating the deposit if it meant
he'd gain the confidence to step up to the plate on other issues in the
future! Win-win for us both.

I'd have deferred it to the following year, giving him a decision
deadline. But
I'm not in your situation.

And that's still a possibility. The issue is open for next year. It
could be that he started the legwork, realized that camp deadlines are
in Jan/Feb, and then conceded that keeping them in the same camp did
make the most sense this year. If he comes to me *before* the deadline
next year with a viable alternative, I will be quite happy to entertain
it.


Of course, he's done nothing to research alternative camps. I think
he
expected that I would do all the legwork again!

Does he think any research is necessary beyond:

$$$newcamp $$$currentcamp

I outlined my own requirements for a camp, so he could weigh that in
his search: must be close to both of our places of employment; must
have coverage until at least 5:00; must have a pool; must accomodate
children through high school (don't want to have to do this again every
few years); etc, etc. We went through that list point-by-point, and he
agreed that each point was just as high a priority for him as for me.
Then he added a few of his own requirements, and I agreed with his
reasoning.

Once we really sat down and talked it all out, the only major point we
disagreed on was that he'd like to try an overnight camp. I told him
the kids may be ready for that, but *I'm* not ready for it yet. And he
acknowledged that, respected it, and didn't push farther on it.

Then we prioritized the whole list, deciding what was absolutely
necessary, vs "nice to have." Going through this exercise, it was
obvious the camp we've been using was a really good fit, *except* for
the price. That was his original objection. I suspect after having
thought about it some more, he has realized that the price isn't so bad
since we do get all this value.

Back to the OP:

I think it's very important that her husband feels he is a part of the
decision process, and his voice has been heard. I do understand feeling
frustrated that her husband could've easily stepped up to the plate, if
he cared so much, and gone along with her to these parent/teacher
conferences himself. It's annoying that he delegates, and THEN
questions the decision. ARGH!

But I'd back up on this, resist the urge to point all that out, and
instead respond to the underlying need of his to be a part of the
process and have a say. It's still up to him to take the initiative and
attend the meetings, of course. Approach this with the attitude, "I
want you involved, I think it's GREAT you want to be involved! Here's
who I talked to - I would be quite interested in your take on things
after you also meet with them. Maybe you will see things from a
perspective I hadn't considered. I know we both want what's best for
DD, and this decision really is as much yours as it is mine."

It does sound to me like the OP's DD is on the "borderline" and could
likely go either way. There are pluses and minuses to both options. I
understand why the OP would prefer to play it on the safe side; perhaps
her DH will also come around to that viewpoint once he does the same
research himself.

Ultimately, I'm confident that DD is going to thrive having two parents
who care very much. I'd view the difference of opinion as a "good"
thing and not an obstacle. While mom may be more apt to take the safe
route, dad is the one who can push just enough when the time is right.
There is a time to be protective, and a time to gently push beyond the
comfort zone, and it appears to me that is the real argument here.
Between the two of them, if they work together on this, I think they
will ultimately strike just the right balance for DD. And for mom, and
for dad.

jen