A Parenting & kids forum. ParentingBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ParentingBanter.com forum » misc.kids » General
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

IQ and what it means in adulthood



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old November 11th 07, 09:38 PM posted to misc.kids
Penny Gaines[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 124
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

Welches wrote:
[snip]antzig.

At my college in Oxford, one of the night porters had (according to rumours)
been a high flying student at one stage. She got a job after finals, but had
problems with stress and decided that she'd be happier doing a non-academic
job, so she became a porter. She'd been there about 10-15 years when I left,
and (I think left a few years after with a job in academia).
This wasn't ever confirmed to me, so it may have not been true. She was a
lovely (and interesting) person to talk to anyway.


I can definately see the appeal for the porter: a low-stress job, but
around intelligent people.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three
  #22  
Old November 12th 07, 05:09 AM posted to misc.kids
Beliavsky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

On Nov 10, 4:02 pm, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Does anyone know of any good articles/studies on how well IQ scores in
childhood correlate with success in adulthood, given all the inherent
inaccuracies of the tests? I realise this is a pretty broad topic, but
I know there are some well-informed people here, and the subject has
come up for discussion on someone's blog so I'm interested in finding
out more.


The book "The Bell Curve" (1994) by Herrnstein and Murray covers this,
using data from National Longitudinal Survey of Labor Market
Experience of Youth (in the U.S.). They define 5 cognitive classes
corresponding to IQ percentiles:
(1) very bright -- top 5% -- 125+ IQ
(2) bright -- 75-95% -- 110-125 IQ
(3) normal -- 25-75% -- 90-110 IQ
(4) dull -- 5-25% -- 75-90 IQ
(5) very dull -- bottom 5% -- below 75 IQ

Here are the percentages of whites in various IQ groups meeting
certain conditions:

p132 living in
poverty:
2 3 6 16 30
p146 failure to get a HS
diploma: 0 0 6 35
55
p158 more than 1mo out of year not employed (males):
10 14 15 19 22
p161 disability preventing employment
(males): 0 0.5 0.5 3.6 7.8
p163 unemployed more than 1mo out of year
(males): 2 7 7 10 12
p174 divorced in first 5 years of
marriage: 9 15 23 22 21
p180 gave birth to illegitimate baby
(females): 2 4 8 17 32
p194 welfare dependence with 1 year of becoming mother (females): 1 4
12 21 55

For example, only 2% of very bright but 30% of very dull whites live
in poverty.

Cognitive test scores are better predictor of job performance than any
other single measure, according to a meta-analysis (p81):

The Validity of Some Different Predictors of Job Performance
Predictor Validity Predicting Job Performance
Ratings
cognitive test score 0.53
biographical data 0.37
reference checks 0.26
education 0.22
interview 0.14
college grades 0.11
interest 0.10
age -0.01

  #23  
Old November 12th 07, 05:17 AM posted to misc.kids
Beliavsky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

My attempt in the previous post to line up some of the numerical data
failed. Maybe the (non-) formatting below will be more readable.

Here are the percentages of whites in various IQ groups meeting
certain conditions:

p132 living in poverty: 2 3 6 16 30

p146 failure to get a HS diploma: 0 0 6 35 55

p158 more than 1mo out of year not employed (males): 10 14 15 19 22

p161 disability preventing employment (males): 0 0.5 0.5 3.6 7.8

p163 unemployed more than 1mo out of year (males): 2 7 7 10 12

p174 divorced in first 5 years of marriage: 9 15 23 22 21

p180 gave birth to illegitimate baby (females): 2 4 8 17 32

p194 welfare dependence with 1 year of becoming mother (females): 1 4
12 21 55

  #24  
Old November 12th 07, 05:44 AM posted to misc.kids
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

Beliavsky wrote:

Here are the percentages of whites in various IQ groups meeting
certain conditions:


....keeping very firmly in mind that correlation causation,
(and even when causation exists, correlation doesn't explain
which direction it's operating in) particularly when alternative
explanations practically throw themselves at you.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #25  
Old November 12th 07, 08:28 AM posted to misc.kids
Anne Rogers[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 670
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood


At my college in Oxford, one of the night porters had (according to rumours)
been a high flying student at one stage. She got a job after finals, but had
problems with stress and decided that she'd be happier doing a non-academic
job, so she became a porter. She'd been there about 10-15 years when I left,
and (I think left a few years after with a job in academia).
This wasn't ever confirmed to me, so it may have not been true. She was a
lovely (and interesting) person to talk to anyway.


Having lived, studied and worked in Cambridge, you could never make any
judgment about someones intelligence by what job they had, someone's
secretary could easily have just as good a degree as they did. I myself
worked part time on both the academic and admin side at the same time!

Anne
  #26  
Old November 12th 07, 08:38 AM posted to misc.kids
Anne Rogers[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 670
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood


I got a maths degree from Oxford, then nannied for 2 years before having my
own. I tend to keep the Oxford bit hidden as some people treat me
differently when they know, which irritates me. Occasionally it comes up and
people are often amazed that I have that qualification but have nannied for
a job.


I've often said we are some kind of pseudo twins! I did maths at
Cambridge rather than Oxford and also have a tendency to not mention
either. People who take me for who I am, a stay at home mother of two,
with a few interesting stories to tell, will switch to viewing me as an
underachiever when they discover my qualifications. It's been nice to
have moved away from a setting where most people have known me for a
while and even if they haven't, because of who within a group I know etc
there are some pretty big clues. Here, I'm just Anne, an English
mother of 2, only very occasionally do I get asked what I did and if I
do, I usually pick a part time job I did once - an awful lot of people
seem to have got the impression I was a teacher, I don't feel any need
to clarify that!

Anne
  #27  
Old November 12th 07, 02:18 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

In article , Anne Rogers says...


I got a maths degree from Oxford, then nannied for 2 years before having my
own. I tend to keep the Oxford bit hidden as some people treat me
differently when they know, which irritates me. Occasionally it comes up and
people are often amazed that I have that qualification but have nannied for
a job.


I've often said we are some kind of pseudo twins! I did maths at
Cambridge rather than Oxford


There may be two of you but there is only *one* math!

Banty gdr

  #28  
Old November 12th 07, 02:36 PM posted to misc.kids
Welches
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 849
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Anne Rogers
says...


I got a maths degree from Oxford, then nannied for 2 years before having
my
own. I tend to keep the Oxford bit hidden as some people treat me
differently when they know, which irritates me. Occasionally it comes up
and
people are often amazed that I have that qualification but have nannied
for
a job.


I've often said we are some kind of pseudo twins! I did maths at
Cambridge rather than Oxford


There may be two of you but there is only *one* math!

"Math" is what a Catholic with a lisp goes to ;-P
Debbie


  #29  
Old November 12th 07, 03:20 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,278
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

In article , Welches says...


"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Anne Rogers
says...


I got a maths degree from Oxford, then nannied for 2 years before having
my
own. I tend to keep the Oxford bit hidden as some people treat me
differently when they know, which irritates me. Occasionally it comes up
and
people are often amazed that I have that qualification but have nannied
for
a job.

I've often said we are some kind of pseudo twins! I did maths at
Cambridge rather than Oxford


There may be two of you but there is only *one* math!

"Math" is what a Catholic with a lisp goes to ;-P
Debbie



There is only One True Math.

Banty

  #30  
Old November 12th 07, 04:06 PM posted to misc.kids
toto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 784
Default IQ and what it means in adulthood

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:09:36 -0800, Beliavsky
wrote:

The book "The Bell Curve" (1994) by Herrnstein and Murray


The book and it's statistical analyses are flawed. Hernstein and
Murray start with a theory, then *lie* with statistics to support
their theory.

http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v4n20.html

The correlation between the AFQT scores and parental SES in the
NLSY data is .55. After reporting this correlation, H&M summarize:
"Being brought up in a conspicuously high-status or low-status family
from birth probably has a significant effect on IQ, independent of the
genetic endowment of the parent" (p. 589). Although the magnitude of
these effects or their explanation are debatable, the IQ scores used
in The Bell Curve to demonstrate the independent role of a cognitive
endowment are caused to an important degree by parent's SES. This
means, to rephrase H&M argument about ignoring years of education in
their regressions, that when IQ is used as an independent variable, it
is to some extent expressing the effects of SES in another form. Can
this be solved by the machinery of multiple regression? It is too
often believed that regression analysis provides the proper
statistical control, "accounting for" is the usual term, which
mathematically remedies the confounding of effects imposed by the
realities of the investigated phenomenon or by the study design. The
answer is an unequivocal "No." Neter, Wasserman, and Kutner (1990)
explain:

"Sometimes the standardized regression coefficients, b1 and
b2, are interpreted as showing that X1 has a greater impact on the
[outcome variable] than X2 because b1 is much larger than b2. However,
....one must be cautious about interpreting regression coefficients,
whether standardized or not. The reason is that when the independent
variables are correlated among themselves, as here, the regression
coefficients are affected by the other independent variables in the
model." (By a happy circumstance, the correlation alluded to in this
section is .569, almost exactly the correlation between IQ and SES!)
"Hence, it is ordinarily not wise to interpret the magnitudes of
standardized regression coefficients as reflecting the comparative
importance of the independent variables" (p.294).

For a detailed discussion of these issues, the reader is invited
to consult Chapter 13 of Mosteller & Tukey's Data Analysis and
Regression (1977). They masterfully demonstrate the problems of
interpreting regression coefficients, and sound very clear warnings
concerning the comparison of regression coefficients even for fully
deterministic systems under tight experimental control.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Weirdly Low OGTT Means... What? Andrea Phillips Pregnancy 6 March 29th 06 06:05 PM
Earliest Memories Remembered During Adulthood Radium General 20 March 26th 06 12:41 AM
State may cut money for helping foster children make transition to adulthood wexwimpy Foster Parents 0 March 25th 04 05:48 PM
Bleeding not sure if it means mc ! Lyndsey Blythe Pregnancy 13 November 3rd 03 04:19 PM
Reaching adulthood is daunting prospect for foster children Wex Wimpy Twins & Triplets 1 June 26th 03 05:08 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 ParentingBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.