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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=33257
Wednesday, June 25, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE … 8-year-olds face electronic tagging High-tech monitoring proposed for out-of-control pre-teens -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Posted: June 25, 2003 5:00 p.m. Eastern -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com In an effort to crack down on an epidemic of youth crime, Scotland is considering a proposal to electronically tag repeat offenders, possibly as young as eight years old, the daily Scotsman reported. Complaints about youth crime and anti-social behavior have been overwhelming, says Margaret Curran, the Scottish Executive minister for communities. Margaret Curran (photo: The Scotsman) "We need to do what has to be done," she said. "If that's tough then that's tough. We are not helping these young people at all if we don't try to deal with their behavior." Under the proposal, parents who fail to help impose tagging orders on their out-of-control children will face fines and even jail, the Scotsman said. In an interview on BBC Scotland's Politics Show, Curran said no specific age would be stated in a consultation paper the Executive will submit on the issue. However, when asked if children as young as 8 would be tagged, she replied: "Some people might say that we should. Some people might say there should be a higher age limit. I will take a view when we see the evidence." The Scotsman reported Curran had confirmed 10 was the lowest age for tagging being considered. England and Wales already have tagged 4,000 pre-teens since 2001 with a device that sends a signal to a transmitter in the offender's home and relays it to a central control. Similar monitoring has been done in the U.S. for more than a decade. For the past year, Scottish courts have had the option of electronic tagging as an alternative to prison but only for adult offenders. Statistics from the Scottish Executive show a 34 percent increase in breaches of the peace by juveniles since 1991. "You get people coming in at 16 or 17 who are almost beyond redemption, hardened criminals," Curran told the Scottish newspaper. "Or having engaged in enough behavior to feel as if they're in a 'them and us' situation. We want to introduce them to behavior modification at an earlier age." Civil libertarians and child advocacy groups are wary of the proposal, however, and some child psychologists insist the tags would become a "badge of honor" for rebellious youth. "What tagging does to kids is give them status," said Jack Boyle, who has worked with older youths who have been tagged. "The only peers anti-social kids have are other anti-social kids." He added though, he understands the "government has to do something about this minority who wreak havoc and misery." "Tagging can have a short-term effect," he said. "It might keep them from committing a crime, keep them away from certain areas or keep them in the house." The Scottish National Party's justice spokeswoman, Nicola Sturgeon, said legislators must "ensure tagging is not a cheap alternative to solving anti-social behavior." "Children need to change by having their offending addressed, and they must have the opportunity to do so instead of all cases resulting in electronic tagging," she said, according to the Scottish Daily Record newspaper. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
Why not just spanked their defiant little asses. I laugh every I read a
story like this. When are these so call experts going to wake up a realize that these kids need discipline and tough love. Hopefully one day the will see that kids who are brought up in a loving, but firm home are far less likely to be repeated offenders. Parents all over the world are laughing with me on this because they know that their children do not have these kind of problems and know the reasons why. There is obviously more to than spanking, but spanking does play a role. "Fern5827" wrote in message ... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=33257 Wednesday, June 25, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE . 8-year-olds face electronic tagging High-tech monitoring proposed for out-of-control pre-teens -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Posted: June 25, 2003 5:00 p.m. Eastern -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com In an effort to crack down on an epidemic of youth crime, Scotland is considering a proposal to electronically tag repeat offenders, possibly as young as eight years old, the daily Scotsman reported. Complaints about youth crime and anti-social behavior have been overwhelming, says Margaret Curran, the Scottish Executive minister for communities. Margaret Curran (photo: The Scotsman) "We need to do what has to be done," she said. "If that's tough then that's tough. We are not helping these young people at all if we don't try to deal with their behavior." Under the proposal, parents who fail to help impose tagging orders on their out-of-control children will face fines and even jail, the Scotsman said. In an interview on BBC Scotland's Politics Show, Curran said no specific age would be stated in a consultation paper the Executive will submit on the issue. However, when asked if children as young as 8 would be tagged, she replied: "Some people might say that we should. Some people might say there should be a higher age limit. I will take a view when we see the evidence." The Scotsman reported Curran had confirmed 10 was the lowest age for tagging being considered. England and Wales already have tagged 4,000 pre-teens since 2001 with a device that sends a signal to a transmitter in the offender's home and relays it to a central control. Similar monitoring has been done in the U.S. for more than a decade. For the past year, Scottish courts have had the option of electronic tagging as an alternative to prison but only for adult offenders. Statistics from the Scottish Executive show a 34 percent increase in breaches of the peace by juveniles since 1991. "You get people coming in at 16 or 17 who are almost beyond redemption, hardened criminals," Curran told the Scottish newspaper. "Or having engaged in enough behavior to feel as if they're in a 'them and us' situation. We want to introduce them to behavior modification at an earlier age." Civil libertarians and child advocacy groups are wary of the proposal, however, and some child psychologists insist the tags would become a "badge of honor" for rebellious youth. "What tagging does to kids is give them status," said Jack Boyle, who has worked with older youths who have been tagged. "The only peers anti-social kids have are other anti-social kids." He added though, he understands the "government has to do something about this minority who wreak havoc and misery." "Tagging can have a short-term effect," he said. "It might keep them from committing a crime, keep them away from certain areas or keep them in the house." The Scottish National Party's justice spokeswoman, Nicola Sturgeon, said legislators must "ensure tagging is not a cheap alternative to solving anti-social behavior." "Children need to change by having their offending addressed, and they must have the opportunity to do so instead of all cases resulting in electronic tagging," she said, according to the Scottish Daily Record newspaper. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ |
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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:35:01 GMT, "billy f"
wrote: Parents all over the world are laughing with me on this because they know that their children do not have these kind of problems. Don't OVER estimate how many people read this newsgroup, billy!!!! Frank Bloater ;- |
#5
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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
billy f wrote:
Why not just spanked their defiant little asses. How do you know these children had not been spanked? I didn't see anything in the article below indicating anything about spanking? I laugh every I read a story like this. When are these so call experts going to wake up a realize that these kids need discipline and tough love. I laugh every time I read a post from someone who associates disciplinary problems with lack of spanking, especially when responding to an article that gave no reason for drawing that conclusion. I cry when I read posts from individuals that have such limited understanding of parenting that they cannot imagine discipline and tough love without spanking. Hopefully one day the will see that kids who are brought up in a loving, but firm home are far less likely to be repeated offenders Children who are hit and hurt in the name of discipline are far more likely to be first and second juvenile offenders than are children who are raised in loving but firm homes. Thank you for making my point, billy. . Parents all over the world are laughing with me on this because they know that their children do not have these kind of problems and know the reasons why. There is obviously more to than spanking, but spanking does play a role. If there is a role, you have failed to provide the link. You rail about lack of spanking regarding the youth in Scotland, yet there is nothing in the post indicating anything about spanking. You advocate a firm and loving home, as we all do, and then you assume that firm and loving homes must include spanking. Children need firm and loving homes. Children do not need to be hit and hurt in the name of discipline. One can have a firm and loving home without spanking. If you cannot imagine firmness without hitting a child, please learn something about parenting. If you think hitting is love, please learn something. It's hard to find a child in the juvenile system that hasn't been spanked! Wonder why that is? LaVonne "Fern5827" wrote in message ... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=33257 Wednesday, June 25, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE . 8-year-olds face electronic tagging High-tech monitoring proposed for out-of-control pre-teens -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Posted: June 25, 2003 5:00 p.m. Eastern -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com In an effort to crack down on an epidemic of youth crime, Scotland is considering a proposal to electronically tag repeat offenders, possibly as young as eight years old, the daily Scotsman reported. Complaints about youth crime and anti-social behavior have been overwhelming, says Margaret Curran, the Scottish Executive minister for communities. Margaret Curran (photo: The Scotsman) "We need to do what has to be done," she said. "If that's tough then that's tough. We are not helping these young people at all if we don't try to deal with their behavior." Under the proposal, parents who fail to help impose tagging orders on their out-of-control children will face fines and even jail, the Scotsman said. In an interview on BBC Scotland's Politics Show, Curran said no specific age would be stated in a consultation paper the Executive will submit on the issue. However, when asked if children as young as 8 would be tagged, she replied: "Some people might say that we should. Some people might say there should be a higher age limit. I will take a view when we see the evidence." The Scotsman reported Curran had confirmed 10 was the lowest age for tagging being considered. England and Wales already have tagged 4,000 pre-teens since 2001 with a device that sends a signal to a transmitter in the offender's home and relays it to a central control. Similar monitoring has been done in the U.S. for more than a decade. For the past year, Scottish courts have had the option of electronic tagging as an alternative to prison but only for adult offenders. Statistics from the Scottish Executive show a 34 percent increase in breaches of the peace by juveniles since 1991. "You get people coming in at 16 or 17 who are almost beyond redemption, hardened criminals," Curran told the Scottish newspaper. "Or having engaged in enough behavior to feel as if they're in a 'them and us' situation. We want to introduce them to behavior modification at an earlier age." Civil libertarians and child advocacy groups are wary of the proposal, however, and some child psychologists insist the tags would become a "badge of honor" for rebellious youth. "What tagging does to kids is give them status," said Jack Boyle, who has worked with older youths who have been tagged. "The only peers anti-social kids have are other anti-social kids." He added though, he understands the "government has to do something about this minority who wreak havoc and misery." "Tagging can have a short-term effect," he said. "It might keep them from committing a crime, keep them away from certain areas or keep them in the house." The Scottish National Party's justice spokeswoman, Nicola Sturgeon, said legislators must "ensure tagging is not a cheap alternative to solving anti-social behavior." "Children need to change by having their offending addressed, and they must have the opportunity to do so instead of all cases resulting in electronic tagging," she said, according to the Scottish Daily Record newspaper. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ |
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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
Fern5827 wrote: Bill, it is very lucrative to keep the industry alive which disempowers parents. No Fern, it is not lucrative. If the system was lucrative, there would be no reason for the massive budget cuts now being experienced in education, in health care, and in social services. Why, a whole industry is built upon the *experts* coming into a family to teach them how to conduct themselves. And what planet are you from? Yes, there are trained individuals who may meet with families to help them resolve their issues and be better parents. Unfortunately, this was never adequately funded, and the funding is now cut even more. If this was lucrative, I'd imagine a huge increase in those services, wouldn't you? After all, the US is facing a huge deficit, and some predict worse than in the 30's. Why decrease programs that are lucrative? LaVonne |
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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
Doan wrote in message ...
Snipping the pottage.............. Simple! Because spanking is almost universal! It is hard to find a senator or a congressman that hasn't been spanked! Can you name a non-spanked Nobel Laureate? ;-) Doan Sure. I don't think Elie Wiesel was. Don't know if these following guys were unspanked or not, but they sure as are against it, and a few of them laureates: James Prescott, Ph.D., wrote the "Ashley Montagu Resolution" in 1994. Dr. Francis Crick, Nobel Laureate in Medicine (1962) and discoverer of the structure of the DNA molecule, endorsed the Montagu Resolution in 1995, along with Dr. Jonas Salk and many others. Dr. George Wald, Nobel Laureate in Medicine (1967) and discoverer of vitamin A in the retina of the eye and how it works there with light to form the molecular basis of vision, was also a strong defender of the human right to bodily integrity. You might look up the Ashley Montagu Resolution. It'll make you cry. If you can......... You think your a smart ass with your questions that can't be answered don't you? Just how many people that haven't been spanked would even bother to mention it? Millions of people haven't been spanked, they just haven't a reason to mention it. ON the other hand, those that have been report it a lot. I wonder why that is? Could be we tend to talk about the negative more than the positive. Kane |
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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
Law enforcement should not be taking over parenting. They should however
help those that are unable to handle their children, but I think their approach is a little off. "Fern5827" wrote in message ... Bill, it is very lucrative to keep the industry alive which disempowers parents. Why, a whole industry is built upon the *experts* coming into a family to teach them how to conduct themselves. Some have declared it a "War against Parents." Billy demonstrates the absurdity of the law enforcement industry taking over parenting: Subject: Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime From: "billy f" Date: 7/11/2003 4:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time Message-id: Why not just spanked their defiant little asses. I laugh every I read a story like this. When are these so call experts going to wake up a realize that these kids need discipline and tough love. Hopefully one day the will see that kids who are brought up in a loving, but firm home are far less likely to be repeated offenders. Parents all over the world are laughing with me on this because they know that their children do not have these kind of problems and know the reasons why. There is obviously more to than spanking, but spanking does play a role. "Fern5827" wrote in message ... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=33257 Wednesday, June 25, 2003 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE . 8-year-olds face electronic tagging High-tech monitoring proposed for out-of-control pre-teens ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ Posted: June 25, 2003 5:00 p.m. Eastern ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com In an effort to crack down on an epidemic of youth crime, Scotland is considering a proposal to electronically tag repeat offenders, possibly as young as eight years old, the daily Scotsman reported. Complaints about youth crime and anti-social behavior have been overwhelming, says Margaret Curran, the Scottish Executive minister for communities. Margaret Curran (photo: The Scotsman) "We need to do what has to be done," she said. "If that's tough then that's tough. We are not helping these young people at all if we don't try to deal with their behavior." Under the proposal, parents who fail to help impose tagging orders on their out-of-control children will face fines and even jail, the Scotsman said. In an interview on BBC Scotland's Politics Show, Curran said no specific age would be stated in a consultation paper the Executive will submit on the issue. However, when asked if children as young as 8 would be tagged, she replied: "Some people might say that we should. Some people might say there should be a higher age limit. I will take a view when we see the evidence." The Scotsman reported Curran had confirmed 10 was the lowest age for tagging being considered. England and Wales already have tagged 4,000 pre-teens since 2001 with a device that sends a signal to a transmitter in the offender's home and relays it to a central control. Similar monitoring has been done in the U.S. for more than a decade. For the past year, Scottish courts have had the option of electronic tagging as an alternative to prison but only for adult offenders. Statistics from the Scottish Executive show a 34 percent increase in breaches of the peace by juveniles since 1991. "You get people coming in at 16 or 17 who are almost beyond redemption, hardened criminals," Curran told the Scottish newspaper. "Or having engaged in enough behavior to feel as if they're in a 'them and us' situation. We want to introduce them to behavior modification at an earlier age." Civil libertarians and child advocacy groups are wary of the proposal, however, and some child psychologists insist the tags would become a "badge of honor" for rebellious youth. "What tagging does to kids is give them status," said Jack Boyle, who has worked with older youths who have been tagged. "The only peers anti-social kids have are other anti-social kids." He added though, he understands the "government has to do something about this minority who wreak havoc and misery." "Tagging can have a short-term effect," he said. "It might keep them from committing a crime, keep them away from certain areas or keep them in the house." The Scottish National Party's justice spokeswoman, Nicola Sturgeon, said legislators must "ensure tagging is not a cheap alternative to solving anti-social behavior." "Children need to change by having their offending addressed, and they must have the opportunity to do so instead of all cases resulting in electronic tagging," she said, according to the Scottish Daily Record newspaper. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ |
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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
On 14 Jul 2003, Kane wrote:
Doan wrote in message ... Snipping the pottage.............. Simple! Because spanking is almost universal! It is hard to find a senator or a congressman that hasn't been spanked! Can you name a non-spanked Nobel Laureate? ;-) Doan Sure. I don't think Elie Wiesel was. Don't know if these following guys were unspanked or not, but they sure as are against it, and a few of them laureates: In short, you don't know jack! Being against spanking is not the same as being unspanked. Just ask Chris and LaVonne, they are against but were beaten as children! James Prescott, Ph.D., wrote the "Ashley Montagu Resolution" in 1994. Dr. Francis Crick, Nobel Laureate in Medicine (1962) and discoverer of the structure of the DNA molecule, endorsed the Montagu Resolution in 1995, along with Dr. Jonas Salk and many others. Irrelevant! Dr. George Wald, Nobel Laureate in Medicine (1967) and discoverer of vitamin A in the retina of the eye and how it works there with light to form the molecular basis of vision, was also a strong defender of the human right to bodily integrity. Irrelevant! You might look up the Ashley Montagu Resolution. It'll make you cry. If you can......... You think your a smart ass with your questions that can't be answered don't you? Of course! And you still can't answer it! ;-) Just how many people that haven't been spanked would even bother to mention it? Millions of people haven't been spanked, they just haven't a reason to mention it. And your prove is??? ON the other hand, those that have been report it a lot. I wonder why that is? Could be we tend to talk about the negative more than the positive. Then why did you claimed to be "never-spanked"??? ;-) Doan |
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Scots call for electronic monitoring of 8yo-excess crime
Doan wrote in message ...
On 14 Jul 2003, Kane wrote: Doan wrote in message ... Snipping the pottage.............. Simple! Because spanking is almost universal! It is hard to find a senator or a congressman that hasn't been spanked! Can you name a non-spanked Nobel Laureate? ;-) Doan Sure. I don't think Elie Wiesel was. Don't know if these following guys were unspanked or not, but they sure as are against it, and a few of them laureates: In short, you don't know jack! Ah, but I do know Doan...r r r r Being against spanking is not the same as being unspanked. Just ask Chris and LaVonne, they are against but were beaten as children! As I mentioned in the previous reply to your question, it was a stupid question. People that are spanked often report it, either out of the negative trauma it created, or out of defense of their abusers from trauma bonding effects. People who haven't been spanked don't even think to mention it. I've read many a biography that had no mention of it at all, while in others it was a central theme in some sections of their writing, and it had the one of the two characteristics I mentioned above. James Prescott, Ph.D., wrote the "Ashley Montagu Resolution" in 1994. Dr. Francis Crick, Nobel Laureate in Medicine (1962) and discoverer of the structure of the DNA molecule, endorsed the Montagu Resolution in 1995, along with Dr. Jonas Salk and many others. Irrelevant! No, Doan. YOU are irrelevant and I enjoy engaging you so people can see just how irrelevant you are. Dr. George Wald, Nobel Laureate in Medicine (1967) and discoverer of vitamin A in the retina of the eye and how it works there with light to form the molecular basis of vision, was also a strong defender of the human right to bodily integrity. Irrelevant! No, Doan, the point is you don't know if they were spanked or not. I've been waiting patiently for this. Please provide us with the names of Nobel Laureates that have been spanked, and prove it. You might look up the Ashley Montagu Resolution. It'll make you cry. If you can......... Passed right by it, eh? Now that is a case for your irrelevance if ever I've seen it. I love it when you set here claiming someone like LaVonne hasn't answered your challenge because of some inability to do so. She may be gone, she may think you are too funny for words, or she may think you are irrelevant and crasy as a loon...who knows, but your assumptions are comic. You think your a smart ass with your questions that can't be answered don't you? Of course! And you still can't answer it! ;-) And that is relevant how, given the question has no value since it asks nothing that can be answered? Just how many people that haven't been spanked would even bother to mention it? Millions of people haven't been spanked, they just haven't a reason to mention it. And your prove is??? Opps! Walked right into it, didn't you? r r r r r 10 percent of the population, according to YOUR claims, has not been spanked, or has made no claim one way or another. What's 10% of the population of the US please? Could it be in the millions? ON the other hand, those that have been report it a lot. I wonder why that is? Could be we tend to talk about the negative more than the positive. Then why did you claimed to be "never-spanked"??? ;-) I said that, did I? Can you provide a cite? Someone must be posting under my handle and addy. I've never discussed it one way or another. I have discussed my two children, who, except for one highly educational swat on the butt to one kid when he was five, were not spanked, and for that matter not punished deliberately. They were taught. Turned out fantastic, if I say so myself. Very successful and independent, law abiding, productive, and jolly good fun to be around. By the way, the educational part that came out of that one swat was not my child's education, but rather, MINE. He obeyed me immediately, when he shouldn't have. He got an immediate apology and a promise, and he never once in his whole childhood or later, ever took advantage of the fact he had my promise he'd never be hit again. Doan Poor little puppy. Sit up and beg for us Doan, there's a good boy. Kane |
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