What's the impact of dressing our children as adults?

"Knit Chic" wrote in message
. com...

Pedophiles are pedophiles, no matter how a child dresses. To blame child
sexual abuse on dress takes the responsibility away from the perpetrator.
It's ALWAYS the perpetrators fault for abusing a child.

Hurrah! I've been trawling through all the posts and nodoby else has said
this. Finally!

To say that the way children dress attracts paedophiles is a fallacy. This
is the same as saying that just because a girl was wearing a short skirt she
invited the rapist to attack her. They will sit in their cars watching kids
play in a playground - appropriately dressed kids, mind you - and get off on
that. They sit outside schools at lunchtime. I know of a case where one
masturbated over a six month old. Sorry, but I don't think rompers and
nappies are all that suggestive. What, the six month old looked at him
provocatively?

Paedophiles work through manipulating the child, coercing them into doing
what they want. They don't care whether the child is dressed like a slut or
like a good little boy or girl. They also have age preferences, so dressing
a 3 year old like a miniature version of an adult (appropriate or not) will
do nothing for those who prefer 6-10 year olds or teens. They rarely cross
those age preference barriers, although some do show no age preference.

In fact, I would go so far as to say for many of them, it is the
"appropriate" clothing that does it for them. The image of the good girl
sullied, the high of being the first, of innocence lost - that's what does
it for them.

The cases where a child that was often provocatively dressed because of
being pushed into child beauty pageants or because they wanted to look like
Britney Spears get the media coverage but are by no means representative of
what actually happens.

The fault lies squarely with the abusers, not the victims.

wrote:
Forget the website. Geesh. Sorry if anybody thinks I'm trying to
promote it. And, heaven forbid that I look like I'm actually promoting
the inapprorpiateness of children. Oh my goodnes.

Dragonlady,
I respect your opinion that there is nothing wrong with what children
wear. It's just something I've noticed and am concerned about. That's
all. It's worth discussing and thinking about when one looks at ads
including children - or when young children want to dress up like
little teenagers.
T

I have noticed that the Disney Channel - of all places - promotes this.
Almost every character of pre-teen and teen age is almost always
dressed "too maturely" for their character's age, IMO - and almost all
have *way* too much make-up on. In fact, many of the characters are
portrayed by actors/tresses much older than the characters (Brenda Song
is 18, Ashley Tsdale is 21, for example - both play 16 year-olds).

As for the clothing - people obviously want to buy the stuff - that's
why it is marketed. But I cringe every time I see a 12 or 9 or 6 year
old in a belly shirt, short shorts and/or "women's" shoes - ones with
big heels and/or tiny straps and glittery, etc.

AFAIC, the parents are to blame for the inappropriate dress. And I see
it a lot in places I shop locally.

-L.

wrote:

I think we're talking the difference between
(http://www.janieandjack.com/)

Actually I find most of the stuff like this vomitous. Why the hell do
we have to dress little kids like mini-adults? What's wrong with cute,
CHILDREN'S clothing? I get so disgusted every time I go to buy
something for DS (almost 2.5) and all I can find are mini button-down
shirts, khakis, etc., which look like the clothing my husband wears for
work...


and (http://ubbaby.com/).

That's just trashy. On anyone.

We're talking
a difference between Gap

Ick. Clothing for Sheeple.

and LimitedToo.

Cheap, sleazy crap made sweathouses in China. Feel the suffering!

My concern comes with both
miniturizing adult clothing (clothing made for mature pubescent adults)

It starts earlier than that. It starts with toddlers.

and with sexualizing the clothing (or the child) in the advertisement.

Pedophilia sells. Remember there are scads of women in places like
Texas and Georgia who dress their tiny girls up like sluts and parade
them in pagents every weekend. Some people are just warped.

-L.

I have read through this conversation with interest both as a mother of
five girls and as a person who buy lots of childrens clothing.

We had this same conversation the other night at dinner, there were 6
adults with 14 children between us. We all agreed that although
clothing manufacturers should take a more liberal line when designing
kids clothing to avoid over sexualising children, mothers and fathers
don't have to buy it.

The power in what children wear is with parents.

but the sick and twisted phedophile doesn't care what his victims are
wearing his sickness will out whatever the child is wearing.

My children have a dresscode which is strictly adhered to even the 18
year old now says she is glad her clothes are no the conservative side
because she feels that people treat her with more respect, including
boys her own age.

So isn't the issue of provocative clothing really an issue sorted
within households, Teaching children to respect themselves in all walks
of their lives is a big key to this.
After all if there is no market for this kind of clothing the
manufacterers will stop making them.

I do have one comment for the author of the original tread... my first
thoughts on seeing your post was oh a sensible conversation for this
day and age, but after having a look at your blogsite i was thinking
what is a grown man doing looking for pictures of children all over the
net and posting them. You should bare in mind that rightly or wrongly
the parents of those children have allowed them to be taken and placed
within the catalogues but they have not given you permission to use
them, which is a violation in its self. Although you would be horrified
i am sure you must see that to a peodphile this is porn laid out for
him without the risk of police involvement, don't make it easier for
the perverts to get stimulis. I suggest you remove them and fight your
battle with words after all the pen is mightier than the sword.

The world does need more people fighting to protect our children but we
must be sure of the purety of the methods used.

sha

Beth Kevles wrote:

In response to your question, I think that the issue of what children
wear is irrelevant.

I disagree. I do think it's important to teach children both how to
dress attractively but modestly, that there are appropriate clothes to
wear for different situations, and that there is such a thing as age
appropriate clothing. When helping our oldest choose clothing, we are
picky about length of skirts/shorts, and length of shirts. We don't
allow bare belly in our house. (Something that can be difficult to
enforce, because my children are all long-waisted, and the hems of
shirts keep going up while the waists of pants go down.) It's also
important to teach children that first impressions to matter in the
world, and your clothing is a part of that.

I think that it must also be taken into account that in general,
children do not dress -more- modestly in their teenage years than in
their young childhood...at least in my observation. (cue 432783492087
people saying, "but I.....") If children age eight are already
wearing short, tight shirts, with short, tight jeans, and three inches
of skin between shirt and pants...where are they going to go from
there? The girl excused from school because she was wearing a
translucent shirt with no bra? (Happened in our school a couple years
ago.)[1]

Michelle
Flutist
[1] Yes, I'm still a homeschooler. But I live in such a tiny
community that generally major happenings at school are pretty much known.

sha68 wrote:

So isn't the issue of provocative clothing really an issue sorted
within households, Teaching children to respect themselves in all walks
of their lives is a big key to this.

For the most part, yes. The hard part comes in when it's hard to find
clothing made to your standards (it's a bad fashion time to have
long-waisted children, when the waists are too short for more normally
built children) and you have relatives who buy trash because "It's so
cute and in style." Or when your rule is "no makeup" so a relative
gives the children tinted lip gloss for Christmas. Grrrr.

Sure, I can just walk over and pitch it into the trash but...it's an
annoying issue.

Michelle
Flutist

"Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message
...
I think that it must also be taken into account that in general,
children do not dress -more- modestly in their teenage years than in
their young childhood...at least in my observation. (cue
432783492087 people saying, "but I.....") If children age eight are
already wearing short, tight shirts, with short, tight jeans, and
three inches of skin between shirt and pants...where are they going
to go from there? The girl excused from school because she was
wearing a translucent shirt with no bra? (Happened in our school a
couple years ago.)[1]

I agree well enough with the rest of your post, but did want to point
out something here. That is, that at some point the kids move from
having the parents pick out their clothes, to picking out their own.
It happens earlier for some than others, at age 10 my DD is still just
starting to care what she wears. So, if it child's parents are
dressing them in tight clothes when they're young (which seems to
happen most with kids that are a bit more solid, so it's a fit thing,
not a sexualization thing) that doesn't say anything about how they'll
dress when they can choose.

Bizby

bizby40 wrote:


I agree well enough with the rest of your post, but did want to point
out something here. That is, that at some point the kids move from
having the parents pick out their clothes, to picking out their own.
It happens earlier for some than others, at age 10 my DD is still just
starting to care what she wears. So, if it child's parents are
dressing them in tight clothes when they're young (which seems to
happen most with kids that are a bit more solid, so it's a fit thing,
not a sexualization thing) that doesn't say anything about how they'll
dress when they can choose.

Well, I think there's a transitional period in which parents buy all
of their children's clothes based upon their own likes (baby and
toddlerhood) and where kids buy their own (teenagehood) where the
parents allow children to pick out what they may like, within
parameters. Some people don't have a lot of parameters in that
transitional period, if what I see some kids wearing is any indication.

Michelle
Flutist

"sha68" wrote in message
ups.com...
I do have one comment for the author of the original tread... my
first
thoughts on seeing your post was oh a sensible conversation for this
day and age, but after having a look at your blogsite i was thinking
what is a grown man doing looking for pictures of children all over
the
net and posting them. You should bare in mind that rightly or
wrongly
the parents of those children have allowed them to be taken and
placed
within the catalogues but they have not given you permission to use
them, which is a violation in its self. Although you would be
horrified
i am sure you must see that to a peodphile this is porn laid out for
him without the risk of police involvement, don't make it easier for
the perverts to get stimulis. I suggest you remove them and fight
your
battle with words after all the pen is mightier than the sword.

The world does need more people fighting to protect our children but
we
must be sure of the purety of the methods used.

I think I'm going to have to speak up for the OP. I followed her
link, not knowing what I might find, and what I found are mainly
mainstream clothing ads for kids. Though there are some that are a
bit provocative, the majority are not. And the ones that are
provocative are generally less so than the Brooke Shields "Can you
believe I'm only 10?" ads of many years ago.

I don't know the legality of reposting the pictures -- I thought it
was okay if you weren't reproducing them for commercial purposes.
Think of Leno and his "headlines" or Consumer Reports "Selling it".
It might be that she needs to reference the original ad in some way?

But I do think that making her point without the pictures would be
difficult. People reading this thread without following the link have
focused on "inappropriate" clothing, particularly sexually
inappropriate. It is clear from the pictures that she is referring to
even perfectly conservative adult clothing. One picture that struck
me was of a little boy of maybe 4, wearing a sport coat. The way he
was posed, it looked like he was in the middle of a business deal.

As for pedophiles -- well, there are pictures of kids all over the
net. They can get the same thrill by going to the JC Penney website
if that's what they want. I just don't see that her much less well
known website is going to do anything at all to encourage pedophilia
or give anyone their jollies.

So, while I don't honestly agree with her that what she thinks is a
problem actually *is* a problem, I really don't see anything wrong
with her website.

Bizby

"Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message
...
Well, I think there's a transitional period in which parents buy all
of their children's clothes based upon their own likes (baby and
toddlerhood) and where kids buy their own (teenagehood) where the
parents allow children to pick out what they may like, within
parameters. Some people don't have a lot of parameters in that
transitional period, if what I see some kids wearing is any
indication.

I think you used the term "young children" before, which made me think
of kids too young to have a lot of input. Well, actually -- DD had a
lot of input as soon as she could talk -- but at first it was mainly
"I want pink!" not "But everybody else in my class is wearing it!"

DD and the other girls are in the transitional period now. I'll admit
that I do cringe at some of the belly baring halter tops. But then I
think back to my own childhood. I was 10 in 1974, and things like
micro-minis, hot pants, halter tops, and tube tops were "in". Shirt
and shorts styles in general were of a generally tighter fit than
nowadays. I remember one outfit I had at that age -- green track
shorts with a tube top. There was a half-top that went over the tube
top and tied underneath it, but it still left the belly bare.

The thing is, that I come from a conservative family, and was never a
flirtatious or fashion conscious kid. I never did learn to wear
makeup for example, and as soon as the teen years hit, I covered up as
much as possible. I used to wear my jacket right up until the last
day of school because I was too shy to take it off.

DD did get that 2 piece bathing suit, but otherwise has never wanted
anything belly-baring or ultra short.

Bizby