Persuading someone

I read a few baby message boards and have found a message that I am
quite compelled to reply to, but would like to get some facts before I
start ranting!

A lady has asked how soon breastfed babies sleep through the night.
She has one child already who was formula fed and slept through (9+
hours a night from 6 weeks) and is intending to try breast feeding
again with her second. The responses have been seemingly honest and
realistic and all different.

The lady has posted a thank you reply - "I appreciate the advantages
of breastfeeding but I have to be honest and say that if sleep
patterns don't fall into place early on then I will seriously consider
using formula again".

What can I say constructively to this?

Thanks in advance

Philippa

The lady has posted a thank you reply - "I appreciate the advantages
of breastfeeding but I have to be honest and say that if sleep
patterns don't fall into place early on then I will seriously consider
using formula again".

What can I say constructively to this?

Thanks in advance

The most honestly contructive thing *I* can think to say (though if this is a
woman who thinks that having a baby sleeping through the night early is the
most important aspect of mothering, I don't know that there is going to be
anything that you'll be able to say to her that will make a difference) would
be something like,
"Breastmilk is the food that nature intends for babies to have, and most
breastfed babies do NOT sleep through the night early. So surely nature herself
does not intend babies to sleep through the night early. If formula fed babies
often sleep through earlier/ 'develop good 'sleep patterns' it is only because
formula is digested poorly and slowly, and so fills the baby's stomach for
longer periods of time. This is *not* a good thing. (It may be convenient for
some mothers, but isn't beneficial for babies.)




Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

Hi -

Tell her that babies are very individual. Some sleep longer with
formula, some sleep longer with breastmilk. Some babies just sleep
better than other babies, regardless of the food being offered!

A breastfed baby is likely to wake up once at night to nurse. (In the
first few weeks the breastfed baby is more likely to wake more than
once, but even that is very individual.) Breastmilk is digested faster
than formula, hence the baby may get hungry before the night is done.

However, formula fed babies are more prone to digestive issues which can
cause sleep problems. And formula increases the risk of long-term
health problems, including allergy, obesity and diabetes. (RISK is
increased; your mileage may vary.)

The key thing to repeat and repeat is that babies vary. What the baby
is fed makes far less of a difference than how old the baby is, whether
mom is nursing on demand, and how high needs the baby is to begin with.
Some babies just sleep better than others!

I hope this helps,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

Philly wrote:

The lady has posted a thank you reply - "I appreciate the advantages
of breastfeeding but I have to be honest and say that if sleep
patterns don't fall into place early on then I will seriously consider
using formula again".

What can I say constructively to this?

In addition to what others have suggested, I'd suggest trying to
determine *why* sleep patterns and longer periods of sleep are important
to the mother. If she's concerned with the baby getting the 'right'
amount of sleep, you could discuss the reasons why BF babies tend to
sleep in shorter segments with more feeding intervals, but that this is
fine, natural, healthy, etc., for the baby -- and for the milk supply,
especially in the early days.

However, if she's interested in the baby getting more or longer sleep
periods because she herself wants more sleep, then I'd also mention that
ti's easier to nurse a baby in the middle of the night than to give a
bottle, especially if/once the mother has figured out a way to fall
asleep while nursing the babe. I'd also mention that eventually the
sleep patterns of FF v BF babies even out but that the advantages of BF
continue throughout the BF relationship -- that is to say, BF babies
don't always have shorter "sleeps", they eventually do learn how to
'sleep through the night' or may even sleep better!

Haft go - my napping nursling just cried out and I want to go extend
that nap if I can!
-Barbara

"Philly" wrote in message
om...
I read a few baby message boards and have found a message that I am
quite compelled to reply to, but would like to get some facts before I
start ranting!

A lady has asked how soon breastfed babies sleep through the night.
She has one child already who was formula fed and slept through (9+
hours a night from 6 weeks) and is intending to try breast feeding
again with her second. The responses have been seemingly honest and
realistic and all different.

The lady has posted a thank you reply - "I appreciate the advantages
of breastfeeding but I have to be honest and say that if sleep
patterns don't fall into place early on then I will seriously consider
using formula again".

What can I say constructively to this?

Thanks in advance

Philippa

I'd just suggest giving it a go, what's she got to lose. She can't formula
feed and then change her mind but she can breast feed and switch to formula
later.

She might be lucky and the baby might be a great sleeper. Also suggest that
she looks at why sleeping through is so important. Perhaps remind her that a
quick feed in the middle of the night and back to sleep is really no big
deal.

Anecdotally I'd say sleeping through has more to do with where the baby
sleeps than what it eats. From what I've heard from my many breastfeeding
friends sleeping through or for long stretches in a cot is quite common.
Generally babies on this group who co-sleep seem to wake up more often. My
sons both slept through from eight weeks DS1 breastfed and DS2 on formula
both in the cot in their own rooms. Not that I'm critising co-sleeping BTW
if it works for you then it's the best option as far as I'm concerned :-)

Judy

Philippa wrote:

The lady has posted a thank you reply - "I appreciate the advantages
of breastfeeding but I have to be honest and say that if sleep
patterns don't fall into place early on then I will seriously consider
using formula again".

I would tell her that she got lucky the first time. To some extent this kind of
temperament is probably hereditary, so she is reasonably likely to get another
baby like that, but she might not, and it might not have one blessed thing to
do with how the baby is fed. And if you have got to feed a baby at night, which
most people do, I'd a lot sooner breast than bottle. If she weans and still has
to get up and make bottles, what then?

But it sounds as though at least this kid may get the colostrum and stuff. That
is a good thing as far as it goes. You up the stats where you can, after all.

--Helen

My first kid was formula fed and slep through whole night from 3rd month,
but starting from 10 p.m. untill 5-6 a.m. He had problems falling asleep -
probably formula caused.

The second one is breastfed and starting with 2 months sleeps from 8 p.m.
untill 7 a.m. with just one feeding around 3 or 4 a.m.

It's clearly individual. If you're lucky your breastfed kid might have the
same nice pattern as mine.



"Philly" wrote in message
om...
I read a few baby message boards and have found a message that I am
quite compelled to reply to, but would like to get some facts before I
start ranting!

A lady has asked how soon breastfed babies sleep through the night.
She has one child already who was formula fed and slept through (9+
hours a night from 6 weeks) and is intending to try breast feeding
again with her second. The responses have been seemingly honest and
realistic and all different.

The lady has posted a thank you reply - "I appreciate the advantages
of breastfeeding but I have to be honest and say that if sleep
patterns don't fall into place early on then I will seriously consider
using formula again".

What can I say constructively to this?

Thanks in advance

Philippa

Generally babies on this group who co-sleep seem to wake up more often. My
sons both slept through from eight weeks DS1 breastfed and DS2 on formula
both in the cot in their own rooms. Not that I'm critising co-sleeping BTW
if it works for you then it's the best option as far as I'm concerned :-)

Judy

Thats true, both of my kids slep in their cots, same room, but pretty far
from our bed.

Judy said:
Anecdotally I'd say sleeping through has more to do with where the baby
sleeps than what it eats. From what I've heard from my many breastfeeding
friends sleeping through or for long stretches in a cot is quite common.
Generally babies on this group who co-sleep seem to wake up more often. My
sons both slept through from eight weeks DS1 breastfed and DS2 on formula
both in the cot in their own rooms. Not that I'm critising co-sleeping BTW
if it works for you then it's the best option as far as I'm concerned :-)

Well, my ds slept most nights in a crib in a separate room, and didn't
start sleeping through the night on a regular basis until he switched
to a "big boy bed" at about 2 years, 3 months. Still wakes
occassionally - last night 3 times, though that was unusual. (He's
now 2.5) Just an anecdote to skew your interpretation! Oh, yeah, he
never had a drop of formula, either.

I really suspect it just depends on the kid, personally, other than
the slight lengthening of sleep phases in newborns when fed formula if
they are awakening because they are hungry, due to the longer time
that formula takes to digest. (If you could understand that
convoluted sentence!) In other words, if hunger were the *only*
factor for night waking, formula would make for fewer night wakings.
But, it's not the be-all, end-all of sleeping 8-12 hours straight!
(Neither is anything else, for that matter.)

Irene
mom to Thomas 7/01
#2 EDD 4/04

I have breastfed until certain age and then later formula fed my baby
at nights. She never slept through the night. In our case I don't
think what she drinks matters. It's just her sleeping pattern. She's
her daddy's girl. The kind that doesn't need sleep

(Philly) wrote in message . com...
I read a few baby message boards and have found a message that I am
quite compelled to reply to, but would like to get some facts before I
start ranting!

A lady has asked how soon breastfed babies sleep through the night.
She has one child already who was formula fed and slept through (9+
hours a night from 6 weeks) and is intending to try breast feeding
again with her second. The responses have been seemingly honest and
realistic and all different.

The lady has posted a thank you reply - "I appreciate the advantages
of breastfeeding but I have to be honest and say that if sleep
patterns don't fall into place early on then I will seriously consider
using formula again".

What can I say constructively to this?

Thanks in advance

Philippa