Smallpox vax 1880

In article .com,
Roman Bystrianyk wrote:
I also posted the book Pox Americana which described the effect of smallpox
on early America and included a good discussion of variolation. But it had
the same effect as the later cow pox materials...it prevented death.

Smallpox vaccination caused death as seen he
http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs...rint_list_item

Thanks very much for this, Roman. The chart shows nicely that from
1875 onwards, the maximum number of persons killed by the vaccine in
England annually was under 70. When you consider how many were killed
by smallpox outbreaks, that "less than 70" number is dwarfed.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Only George Bush could start a war for oil and not get any."
-- Bill Maher

"David Wright" wrote in message
et...
In article ,
George Conklin wrote:

I am not into quacks as you are. Smallpox caught naturally was
generally
fatal and if you survived you were seriously maimed.

"Generally" fatal is too strong. According to CDC, the mortality rate
is 30% or more. See:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001356.htm


However, historically we know that some populations were more
susceptible than others, which is why smallpox did such a hideously
efficient job of killing, say, the indigenous peoples of the
Americas, for example.

That 30% has not been historically proven. The historians, based on
records of populations which were not exposed to smallpox from birth, put
the rate at closer to 80%. That is why so many ex-slaves joining the
British during the revolutionary war did not survive to fight. The colonies
were not heavily infested with smallpox. The British army officers put in
charge of the units were.

In article t,
george conklin wrote:

"David Wright" wrote in message
. net...
In article ,
George Conklin wrote:

I am not into quacks as you are. Smallpox caught naturally was
generally
fatal and if you survived you were seriously maimed.

"Generally" fatal is too strong. According to CDC, the mortality rate
is 30% or more. See:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001356.htm


However, historically we know that some populations were more
susceptible than others, which is why smallpox did such a hideously
efficient job of killing, say, the indigenous peoples of the
Americas, for example.

That 30% has not been historically proven. The historians, based on
records of populations which were not exposed to smallpox from birth, put
the rate at closer to 80%. That is why so many ex-slaves joining the
British during the revolutionary war did not survive to fight. The colonies
were not heavily infested with smallpox. The British army officers put in
charge of the units were.

Well, that was partly my point -- Europeans, with a history of
smallpox, presumably had some genetic resistance to it. People from
other parts of the world, with no such history, were more vulnerable.

In any event, I think the key fact today is that smallpox might not be
"generally" fatal.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Only George Bush could start a war for oil and not get any."
-- Bill Maher

In article .com,
wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:36 am, "George Conklin"
wrote:
"JOHN" wrote in message

...

"George Conklin" wrote in message
ink.net...

Actually those who had variolation DID progress to the disease, but it
was
attenuated because they tried to use third generation of infections. 1%
death rate was expected, but better than about 80% if you got it
naturally.
Have you ever seen a survivor of small pox? I have. It is not a pretty
sight. It looks like your face and boy have been hammered with a ball
peen
hammer.

death rate was 18% usually, although under proper care it was 1-2% as
Sydenham pointed out in the 17 century, and doctors like Trall and Tilden
in
the 19th, early 20th who never lost a single case of smallpox

In unvaccinated Leicester the case mortality was 1.24%

under vaccination it rose to 26% in some places eg revaccinated japan

"Not one case receiving homeopathic care died, while the "old school"
doctors lost twenty percent of their (smallpox) cases.....I gave about
three
hundred internal vaccinations, five to adults acting as practical nurses;
to
the man who installed the telephone and lights in the pest-house; to
mothers
who slept with their children while they had smallpox in its severest
form.
All of these people, exposed daily, were immune."--W. L. Bonnell, MD

"I don't think there's been any major shift in the medical profession's
general approach to new ideas. I don't think there ever will be that kind
of
wholesale change. Three hundred years ago, when the major disease was
smallpox, Sir Thomas Sydenham [1624-89] developed a new treatment that
reduced the death rate from about 50 percent to 1 percent or 2 percent.
His
reward was being challenged to a duel. The English medical association
wanted to drive him out. He wrote: "A new idea is like a sapling in the
middle of a road, and if it's not fenced in, it will be galloped over by
the
trampling hordes." That's a really great statement, and it's also my view
of
what happens to medical discovery." -----Abram Hoffer, MD, PhD 1997
Interview by Peter Barry Chowka.

"Mr. Pickering, who treated cases at Gloucester by the "water cure"
method,
declared that his fatality rate was as low as 2 per cent."---- Lilly Loat
[Book 1951] The Truth About Vaccination and Immunization

I am not into quacks as you are. Smallpox caught naturally was generally
fatal and if you survived you were seriously maimed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The truth about smallpox is exactly as Sydenham stated, something like
"smallpox is a most mild and non-life threating disease...except for
the mischief of the doctor or nurse."

Sydenham died in 1689, meaning the treatments of his day may well have
made things worse -- but have nothing to do with current treatment.

If you ever go back and read
about the treatments doctors used for smallpox, you quickly realize
that the docs were killing their patients with their treatments.

That may well have been true. In 1689. Are you living in 1689?
(Quite possibly, you are. The rest of us aren't.)

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Only George Bush could start a war for oil and not get any."
-- Bill Maher

"David Wright" wrote in message
. net...
In article t,
george conklin wrote:

"David Wright" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,
George Conklin wrote:

I am not into quacks as you are. Smallpox caught naturally was
generally
fatal and if you survived you were seriously maimed.

"Generally" fatal is too strong. According to CDC, the mortality rate
is 30% or more. See:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001356.htm


However, historically we know that some populations were more
susceptible than others, which is why smallpox did such a hideously
efficient job of killing, say, the indigenous peoples of the
Americas, for example.

That 30% has not been historically proven. The historians, based on
records of populations which were not exposed to smallpox from birth, put
the rate at closer to 80%. That is why so many ex-slaves joining the
British during the revolutionary war did not survive to fight. The
colonies
were not heavily infested with smallpox. The British army officers put in
charge of the units were.

Well, that was partly my point -- Europeans, with a history of
smallpox, presumably had some genetic resistance to it. People from
other parts of the world, with no such history, were more vulnerable.

In any event, I think the key fact today is that smallpox might not be
"generally" fatal.




The public health establishment is assuming smallpox will be generally fatal
to those who were never innoculated. My wife is attending a session on that
this next month, but in the past they were told that smallpox was really,
really bad news.

george conklin wrote:

...


The public health establishment is assuming smallpox will be generally fatal
to those who were never innoculated. My wife is attending a session on that
this next month, but in the past they were told that smallpox was really,
really bad news.

It is really, really bad news. If there is an outbreak, and only 1% die,
it is still bad news.

Jeff

"Jeff" wrote in message
news:t_Cfi.493$w2.141@trnddc01...
george conklin wrote:

...


The public health establishment is assuming smallpox will be generally
fatal to those who were never innoculated. My wife is attending a
session on that this next month, but in the past they were told that
smallpox was really, really bad news.

It is really, really bad news. If there is an outbreak, and only 1% die,
it is still bad news.

Jeff



Jeff, you are simpy horribly misinformed.

george conklin wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
news:t_Cfi.493$w2.141@trnddc01...
george conklin wrote:

...


The public health establishment is assuming smallpox will be generally
fatal to those who were never innoculated. My wife is attending a
session on that this next month, but in the past they were told that
smallpox was really, really bad news.
It is really, really bad news. If there is an outbreak, and only 1% die,
it is still bad news.

Jeff



Jeff, you are simpy horribly misinformed.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox...ease-facts.asp says
that the fatality rate for most outbreaks was 30%. That sounds like
really, really bad news if there is an outbreak. One, less common form,
has a fatality rate of about 1%. Maybe it's just me, but an outbreak
with a fatality rate of only 1% is still bad news.

Jeff

In article ,
george conklin wrote:

"David Wright" wrote in message
.net...
In article t,
george conklin wrote:

"David Wright" wrote in message
y.net...
In article ,
George Conklin wrote:

I am not into quacks as you are. Smallpox caught naturally was
generally
fatal and if you survived you were seriously maimed.

"Generally" fatal is too strong. According to CDC, the mortality rate
is 30% or more. See:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001356.htm


However, historically we know that some populations were more
susceptible than others, which is why smallpox did such a hideously
efficient job of killing, say, the indigenous peoples of the
Americas, for example.

That 30% has not been historically proven. The historians, based on
records of populations which were not exposed to smallpox from birth, put
the rate at closer to 80%. That is why so many ex-slaves joining the
British during the revolutionary war did not survive to fight. The
colonies
were not heavily infested with smallpox. The British army officers put in
charge of the units were.

Well, that was partly my point -- Europeans, with a history of
smallpox, presumably had some genetic resistance to it. People from
other parts of the world, with no such history, were more vulnerable.

In any event, I think the key fact today is that smallpox might not be
"generally" fatal.

The public health establishment is assuming smallpox will be generally fatal
to those who were never innoculated. My wife is attending a session on that
this next month, but in the past they were told that smallpox was really,
really bad news.

No doubt about that last point. I believe smallpox has killed more
people than any other infectious disease. Makes me glad I was
vaccinated as a kid.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Only George Bush could start a war for oil and not get any."
-- Bill Maher

On Jun 23, 11:40 pm, (David Wright) wrote:
In article .com,
Roman Bystrianyk wrote:

I also posted the book Pox Americana which described the effect of smallpox
on early America and included a good discussion of variolation. But it had
the same effect as the later cow pox materials...it prevented death.

Smallpox vaccination caused death as seen he
http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs...aphs_print_lis...

Thanks very much for this, Roman. The chart shows nicely that from
1875 onwards, the maximum number of persons killed by the vaccine in
England annually was under 70. When you consider how many were killed
by smallpox outbreaks, that "less than 70" number is dwarfed.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Only George Bush could start a war for oil and not get any."
-- Bill Maher

You're quite welcome. Unfortunately from 1906 to 1922 there were
similar deaths from smallpox and the vaccine itself. However, there
were more smallpox deaths (255 vs. 180.).

http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs...rint_list_item

Also, curiously, as vaccination rates fell from the 1872 pandemic
there was no major resurgence of the disease.

http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs...rint_list_item

Enjoy your day.
Roman