baby routine tips needed please

On Nov 11, 5:44 am, "Karen \(LG\)" wrote:
"sharalyns" wrote in message

oups.com...

WOW even before solids he'd never have taken 2.5x his body weight in milk.

The website also says ''Once your baby reaches 6 months, you can feed him 6
to 8 ounces at a feeding, up to around 32 ounces of formula per day. At this
point you should start adding solid foods to his diet, if you haven't
already. You'll find that as your baby gets older, he will drink fewer
bottles with more formula.''

He will never drink more than 4oz or he just spends the next hour throwing
it back up again................

I guess he's not an ''average'' baby.


My son never drank more than 4-5 ounces at a time, but he was nursing
every 2-2.5 hours during the day at your son's age (and at 5 months
was 15 pounds, 2 ounces), taking about 3-4 ounces at a time (he was a
preemie, and I continued weighing him at home before and after
feedings because I was so worried). Then he was nursing about every 3
hours at night, so on average he was getting about 14 ounces at night
and another 21 ounces during the day. Total = 35 ounces. If he can't
take the volume all at once, he should take it more often.

My son has never been a volume eater--even today at age 6, he doesn't
pack away large quantities of food in just a few sittings. He's more
of a grazer (3 meals plus about 4-5 snacks), but on average actually
ends up eating *more* than kids his own age who just do 3 meals plus 1
snack.

Hope that helps!

Sharalyn
mom to Alexander James

Karen (LG) wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..

Sometimes you just have to do what works for
*your* baby. As long as you know *why* things are
recommended one way or another, you can try to navigate
the minefield and figure out what seems like a reasonable
strategy for your situation.

If only every baby was the same things would be so much easier !!

No kidding! Of course, it would be less fun, too ;-)

I guess we'll plod along and hope things improve.

Anne seems to think he needs a set shedhule to when he has bottles and when
he has breast milk, Easier said than done in this house.

I think it's just that it's harder to maintain supply
when demand is inconsistent (both in terms of total volume and
in terms of timing).

As of today I'm
going 100% bottle. It's easier for everyone. Let's see how he goes.

So far today Connor has had 20oz of milk from 5am. He's now asleep but took
some getting off. I cut out ''dinner & teatime & supper'' I just gave him
some breakfast to fill him after just ''2 sleepy breastfeeds'' during the
night. He was offerec milk at ''dinner, teatime & supper'' but refused and
just cried.

It seems like he has some kind of issue that causes
him not to be able to take much milk at a sitting. That
may also be related to him wanting solids or sleeping better
after solids. Might be something to explore.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Anne seems to think he needs a set shedhule to when he has bottles and when
he has breast milk, Easier said than done in this house. As of today I'm
going 100% bottle. It's easier for everyone. Let's see how he goes.

Not quite, I think he would benefit from a set schedule and volume of
bottles, but that around that to breastfeed on demand. I'm saying this
because it seems to be what almost everyone recommends who has
experience with supplementing successfully.

Leslie doesn't seem to be around at the moment, I remember her 5th (and
last, so far), was big at birth over 11 pounds and then very slow to
gain weight, I think they ended up determining it was a developmental
issue with the jaw and she wasn't extracting the milk efficiently
enough, eventually she was desperate need of supplementation, I've been
trying to dig for the facts using google groups, as I know Leslie did
her research about how best to supplement for the sake of Lorelei's
health whilst also maintaining a supply maximising the chances of
breastfeeding beyond the first year.

The best information she could get was to supplement with a fixed amount
at fixed times of day, though it looks like it took some playing as the
initial bottles were too big. Last post I remember that was specifically
about Lorelei was her 2nd birthday about 8 or 9 months ago, she was
still nursing and was on a much more reasonable centile for her birth
weight and genetics and had been for a long time. I'm not sure when she
was able to stop the bottles, or if they managed to switch to normal
formula from high calorie formula, but it was a pretty eye opening
ongoing saga of a baby that desperately needed to gain some weight, and
a mum that was absolutely determined that she'd only use formula if it
definitely was the best solution, but that if she had to do that, she'd
do it in a way that optimised long term outcomes of breastfeeding.

The problem with not having the formula on a schedule is that as
breastmilk is supply and demand, but not with an instance response, so
if one day you give some extra formula, then it's a day or two later
that your body is at minimum production as a result of that, so it's not
until that day that baby nurses more and sends more signals and not
until a couple of days after that that milk supply peaks again, by which
stage your're in another cycle of mixed messages as to what your body
needs to produce.

For some reason the body also seems to be better at producing the total
amount that baby needs, compared to consistently only needing to produce
2/3 or half the amount, that's probably some kind of subtle consequence
of a likely reduction in skin to skin contact and altered latch due to
use of artificial nipples.

It's a known fact that giving a baby one bottle per day reduces the
average duration of breastfeeding and I don't think you can just put
that down to some kind of presumption that the fact a bottle is being
given indicating something about the families choices surrounding
breastfeeding, though I don't think you can discount that as not being
relevant at all, it just isn't the whole answer.

Is there any possibility you could borrow a scale and weigh him before
and after a feed? The behaviour you are describing does suggest to me
that he's not taking much at the breast, if he were gaining fine and
there were no other issues then you could conclude that he was taking
sufficient at the breast, but you don't have that reassurance. Getting
some measurements of the size of some of his breastfeeds, might
determine that he is regularly getting a normal sized feed at the
breast, or it might not. If he is getting a normal size feed at the
breast (at least compared to his other feeds), then, it maybe that you
have to dig for other reasons why he's not gaining well, the feed volume
is fairly small, you say he can't keep a bigger feed down, maybe he has
reflux, that would also account for some of the grumpiness.

Anne

Update -

Well I phoned the health visitor today and she has asked me to take connor
on wednesday to be weighed.

She said if he is having 3 meals a day then he should be taking approx a
pint of milk to (approx 20 oz) as he is taking 18oz in bottles plus 2 in
baby rice and breastfeeds, he is doing fine with the amount of milk he
needs.

The fact he is still niggly she thinks may be to do with the fact his teeth
have just come though, she said he may still be in some discomfort. I gave
him some calpol earlier and he's been asleep 3 hours !!

Let's see how the next few days go.

"sharalyns" wrote in message
oups.com...
My son never drank more than 4-5 ounces at a time, but he was nursing
every 2-2.5 hours during the day at your son's age (and at 5 months
was 15 pounds, 2 ounces), taking about 3-4 ounces at a time (he was a
preemie, and I continued weighing him at home before and after
feedings because I was so worried). Then he was nursing about every 3
hours at night, so on average he was getting about 14 ounces at night
and another 21 ounces during the day. Total = 35 ounces. If he can't
take the volume all at once, he should take it more often.

My son has never been a volume eater--even today at age 6, he doesn't
pack away large quantities of food in just a few sittings. He's more
of a grazer (3 meals plus about 4-5 snacks), but on average actually
ends up eating *more* than kids his own age who just do 3 meals plus 1
snack.

Hope that helps!

Sharalyn
mom to Alexander James


How big was you son at birth and how early?
Connor was born 3weeks early weighing 8lb 5oz

All my babies have been big and all have started solids before 6 months.
Years ago it used to be 4mth you'd start solids and it never did my eldest 2
any harm.

I know the WHO ''guidelines'' are designed to give guidance to what is best
for babies but not all babies are the same.

DD2 - Has 3 meals a day plus 3 snacks in between (fruit, healthy snacks, or
wholemeal toast) and is built like a whippet. She the energizer bunny !!
She is now 2 & a half and weighs just under 2 stone, she was 9lb 4oz at
birth !!

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..

It seems like he has some kind of issue that causes
him not to be able to take much milk at a sitting. That
may also be related to him wanting solids or sleeping better
after solids. Might be something to explore.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Issue? such as?

Karen (LG) wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..

It seems like he has some kind of issue that causes
him not to be able to take much milk at a sitting. That
may also be related to him wanting solids or sleeping better
after solids. Might be something to explore.

Issue? such as?

Reflux or some other digestive issue? Allergies
or some kind of food sensitivity? I imagine there are
other possibilities out there as well, but I'm not really
familiar with them as my kids were pretty much gluttons
from the get-go ;-) It does seem a little odd to me that
a nearly six month old baby wouldn't be able to take more
than 4 oz at a time, though.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...

Not quite, I think he would benefit from a set schedule and volume of
bottles, but that around that to breastfeed on demand. I'm saying this
because it seems to be what almost everyone recommends who has experience
with supplementing successfully.

He has 3 meals, 5 bottles and 2 breastfeeds a day. So is being fed every 2
hours, do I need to breastfeed him between bottles and meals? He wouldn't
accept it. He'll only eat IF he's hungry.


Leslie doesn't seem to be around at the moment, I remember her 5th (and
last, so far), was big at birth over 11 pounds and then very slow to gain
weight, I think they ended up determining it was a developmental issue
with the jaw and she wasn't extracting the milk efficiently enough,
eventually she was desperate need of supplementation, I've been trying to
dig for the facts using google groups, as I know Leslie did her research
about how best to supplement for the sake of Lorelei's health whilst also
maintaining a supply maximising the chances of breastfeeding beyond the
first year.

Do you think I need to see my doctor and have him checked out?


The best information she could get was to supplement with a fixed amount
at fixed times of day, though it looks like it took some playing as the
initial bottles were too big. Last post I remember that was specifically
about Lorelei was her 2nd birthday about 8 or 9 months ago, she was still
nursing and was on a much more reasonable centile for her birth weight and
genetics and had been for a long time. I'm not sure when she was able to
stop the bottles, or if they managed to switch to normal formula from high
calorie formula, but it was a pretty eye opening ongoing saga of a baby
that desperately needed to gain some weight, and a mum that was absolutely
determined that she'd only use formula if it definitely was the best
solution, but that if she had to do that, she'd do it in a way that
optimised long term outcomes of breastfeeding.

In an ideal world I'd breasfeed only as long as possible, but formula fills
him more and makes for a happier baby than on breastmilk alone.


The problem with not having the formula on a schedule is that as
breastmilk is supply and demand, but not with an instance response, so if
one day you give some extra formula, then it's a day or two later that
your body is at minimum production as a result of that, so it's not until
that day that baby nurses more and sends more signals and not until a
couple of days after that that milk supply peaks again, by which stage
your're in another cycle of mixed messages as to what your body needs to
produce.

I see where you are coming from. I feed regualrly twice in the night and
weekends I feed on demand but will give bottles if he is restless and
refuses to breastfeed.

For some reason the body also seems to be better at producing the total
amount that baby needs, compared to consistently only needing to produce
2/3 or half the amount, that's probably some kind of subtle consequence of
a likely reduction in skin to skin contact and altered latch due to use
of artificial nipples.
It's a known fact that giving a baby one bottle per day reduces the
average duration of breastfeeding and I don't think you can just put that
down to some kind of presumption that the fact a bottle is being given
indicating something about the families choices surrounding breastfeeding,
though I don't think you can discount that as not being relevant at all,
it just isn't the whole answer.

It was something I discussed with my health visitor BEFORE stating bottle
feeding as I was worried aobut my milk supply reducing till there was not
enough to feed connor when he needed or wanted it. But after discussing the
situtation of work ,family, hectic feeding shedule, I had to take in do what
was best for everyone not just connor.


Is there any possibility you could borrow a scale and weigh him before and
after a feed? The behaviour you are describing does suggest to me that
he's not taking much at the breast, if he were gaining fine and there were
no other issues then you could conclude that he was taking sufficient at
the breast, but you don't have that reassurance. Getting some measurements
of the size of some of his breastfeeds, might determine that he is
regularly getting a normal sized feed at the breast, or it might not. If
he is getting a normal size feed at the breast (at least compared to his
other feeds), then, it maybe that you have to dig for other reasons why
he's not gaining well, the feed volume is fairly small, you say he can't
keep a bigger feed down, maybe he has reflux, that would also account for
some of the grumpiness.

Anne

He's only ever fed for 6 minutes at ther reast from day one.I feel sometimes
he feds more for comfort during the night, than for nourishment.

What exactly is reflux?

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Reflux or some other digestive issue? Allergies
or some kind of food sensitivity? I imagine there are
other possibilities out there as well, but I'm not really
familiar with them as my kids were pretty much gluttons
from the get-go ;-) It does seem a little odd to me that
a nearly six month old baby wouldn't be able to take more
than 4 oz at a time, though.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I did wonder myself. The other 3 could take 6, 7 or 8 ox at a time but if he
takes 5 he'll throw up the extra oz. May be worth discussing with my health
visitor on wednesday.

"Karen (LG)" wrote in message
...

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Reflux or some other digestive issue? Allergies
or some kind of food sensitivity? I imagine there are
other possibilities out there as well, but I'm not really
familiar with them as my kids were pretty much gluttons
from the get-go ;-) It does seem a little odd to me that
a nearly six month old baby wouldn't be able to take more
than 4 oz at a time, though.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I did wonder myself. The other 3 could take 6, 7 or 8 ox at a time but if
he takes 5 he'll throw up the extra oz. May be worth discussing with my
health visitor on wednesday.

I would agree. It doesn't sound normal. There may be a medical issue going
on, and perhaps that is causing some discomfort as well?

--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys -- 01/03/03
Addison Grace -- 09/30/04

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