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#31
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Retired Father
"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point where they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there? Hello Tiffany, The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true. At age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but they can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18, but they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to. In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to age 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on their income tax. So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her financial aid applications. Assuming she has ZERO income. All she would have to do is file a zero income tax report and claim herself as a dependent. Then it would be illegal for either of her parents to claim her, since she is claiming herself. If she does not have zero income, then she would just file any tax report just the same and still claim herself as a dependent. Same situation, same results. It would not matter if she is living at home with both parents, one parent, or with neither. There are plenty of students living at home with their parents and they claim themselves as their own dependents. Financial Aid office would not have anything to say about it either way. I filed my first income tax report, claiming myself as a dependent, when I was 17. There are major differences between income tax dependency and dependent/independent definitions for college loans and grants. The assumption that a student claiming income tax dependency creates financial aid independence is incorrect for U.S. citizens. If you are talking about Canadian laws please make that clear. |
#32
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Retired Father
: "Jackie" wrote in message
: . ca... : So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for : some : advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I see : you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway. It appears that YOU are the deadbeat. |
#33
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Retired Father
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point where they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there? Hello Tiffany, The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true. At age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but they can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18, but they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to. In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to age 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on their income tax. So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her financial aid applications. Assuming she has ZERO income. All she would have to do is file a zero income tax report and claim herself as a dependent. Then it would be illegal for either of her parents to claim her, since she is claiming herself. If she does not have zero income, then she would just file any tax report just the same and still claim herself as a dependent. Same situation, same results. It would not matter if she is living at home with both parents, one parent, or with neither. There are plenty of students living at home with their parents and they claim themselves as their own dependents. Financial Aid office would not have anything to say about it either way. I filed my first income tax report, claiming myself as a dependent, when I was 17. There are major differences between income tax dependency and dependent/independent definitions for college loans and grants. The assumption that a student claiming income tax dependency creates financial aid independence is incorrect for U.S. citizens. If you are talking about Canadian laws please make that clear. Just another example of congress disregarding the constitution |
#34
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Retired Father
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
thlink.net... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point where they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there? Hello Tiffany, The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true. At age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but they can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18, but they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to. In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to age 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on their income tax. So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her financial aid applications. Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the U.S. a student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans and grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and cut it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they: 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school year. 2. Got married. 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school. 4. Have dependents. 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court. 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces. That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why they never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information. A person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the right to enter into contracts. Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not help them. As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial aid. Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the situation. These rules are why I am so adamant against CS for children attending school. The CS counts towards the parent/child combined incomes driving up the out-of-pocket cost for college. The primary parent can keep the CS for their own use and not use the CS for it's intended use. The child is forced to provide the expected family contribution out of their own student loans and part-time work pay. The primary parent can refuse to take out a parent loan forcing the student to borrow even more money. The students actually are put at a disadvantage when there is CS for a child attending school because the CS. |
#35
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Retired Father
"Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point where they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there? Hello Tiffany, The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true. At age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but they can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18, but they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to. In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to age 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on their income tax. So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her financial aid applications. Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the U.S. a student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans and grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and cut it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they: 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school year. 2. Got married. 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school. 4. Have dependents. 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court. 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces. That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why they never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information. A person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the right to enter into contracts. A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and grants. Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent. Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not help them. As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial aid. Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the situation. I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed. She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for free money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments about the process without knowing the details themselves. CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite all the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does. |
#36
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Retired Father
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point where they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there? Hello Tiffany, The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true. At age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but they can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18, but they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to. In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to age 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on their income tax. So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her financial aid applications. Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the U.S. a student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans and grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and cut it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they: 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school year. 2. Got married. 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school. 4. Have dependents. 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court. 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces. That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why they never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information. A person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the right to enter into contracts. A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and grants. Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent. Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not help them. As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial aid. Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the situation. I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed. She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for free money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments about the process without knowing the details themselves. CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite all the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does. So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the $$, since there was never a CS order before she turned 18? The divorce is occuring when she is 21--wouldn't that make a difference? |
#37
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Retired Father
"teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point where they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there? Hello Tiffany, The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true. At age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but they can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18, but they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to. In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to age 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on their income tax. So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her financial aid applications. Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the U.S. a student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans and grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and cut it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they: 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school year. 2. Got married. 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school. 4. Have dependents. 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court. 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces. That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why they never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information. A person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the right to enter into contracts. A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and grants. Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent. Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not help them. As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial aid. Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the situation. I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed. She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for free money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments about the process without knowing the details themselves. CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite all the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does. So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the $$, since there was never a CS order before she turned 18? My reading of the Thomas case, which is the appeals court case I cited, would be no. In Thomas the court said, "ORS 107.108 does not create a new parental obligation, but only empowers courts to extend a noncustodial parent's preexisting duty to pay support beyond a child's eighteenth birthday, if the child is attending school." Inerestingly, also in the Thomas case, the appeals court ruled when there is a break is CS accruals after a child reaches 18 because they do not attend school, the statute cannot be used to restart a prior CS order that lapsed due to non-attendance. The divorce is occuring when she is 21--wouldn't that make a difference? Yes. The Oregon law for support of a child attending school applies for 18-20 year old students only with support accruals ceasing when the child reaches 21. |
#38
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Retired Father
Who me? I didn't write that. Jackie wrote that bit.
-- Randy Please don't bottom-post... It's a bitch to scroll down. wrote in message ... : "Jackie" wrote in message : . ca... : So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for : some : advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I see : you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway. It appears that YOU are the deadbeat. |
#39
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Retired Father
Keep in mind that $90 Canadian is about $64 American.
Phil #3 "Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message ... "Jackie" wrote in message . ca... Let me tell you guys a few things. 1. My father's basically got it made... he makes over $90K/year, and he's the one who wants the divorce from my mother. 90k a year is peanuts if you are living in cities like NYC and many other metro areas where you are lucky to find a rental for under 2k a month. When you can find something under 2k the paradox is you cannot make over 40k to get the lower rent. Perhaps he also has other expenses and needs to put away for retirement which leaves him little to pay for your college? The point is you still have not made your case where as an adult your 67 year old father should be paying you $800 a month, 2. He's told me on multiple occasions that he is going to make it as difficult as possible for me to NOT be able to go to school (for one, because of his income, I can't get a student loan, and he's not willing to pay for my education). Hmmm. Why is that? What are you not telling us? 3. He's verbally abusive and tells me that he wishes he never had me and that I am stupid, just like my mother, and how, if we weren't in Canada, he would have given me away when I was born. Hmmm, did this really happen? Was this out of anger during an arguement? What did you say to him first? So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for some advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I see you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway. In other words you cannot accept the truth about yourself and rather live the illusion that the words of advice here are from deadbeat dads to make you feel better. "Dave" dave@freedoms-door wrote in message ... Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls? You really expect a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month. Living with your parents is one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not matter how old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the courts) Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father. I would not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime which at that age could be right around the corner. That maybe the only way to teach you some sense of morality in caring for others in life. "Jackie" wrote in message . ca... Hello, I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would be still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on a 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep on working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of his income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as long as I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already over 18)?! Thanks in advance, Jackie |
#40
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Retired Father
"Tracy" wrote in message news:75GXa.68523$YN5.53503@sccrnsc01... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message thlink.net... "teachrmama" wrote in message ... "Randy Jabsco" wrote in message s.com... Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point where they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there? Hello Tiffany, The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true. At age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but they can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18, but they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to. In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to age 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on their income tax. So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her financial aid applications. Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the U.S. a student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans and grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and cut it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they: 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school year. 2. Got married. 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school. 4. Have dependents. 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court. 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces. That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why they never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information. A person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the right to enter into contracts. A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and grants. Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent. Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not help them. As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial aid. Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the situation. I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed. She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for free money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments about the process without knowing the details themselves. CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite all the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does. So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the $$, since there was never a CS order before she turned 18? My reading of the Thomas case, which is the appeals court case I cited, would be no. In Thomas the court said, "ORS 107.108 does not create a new parental obligation, but only empowers courts to extend a noncustodial parent's preexisting duty to pay support beyond a child's eighteenth birthday, if the child is attending school." What about CP's? What if a child, from a divorce, who just finished high school leaves home and wishes to pursue child support against the CP? What if the child support award mentioned *nothing* about college? How about a CP who was once the NCP of this child, and the child support case against the NCP (who is now the CP) is closed? Since ORS 107.108 is written the way it is, and the appeals court has ruled the way they have, the legal answer is the CP has no CS obligation for a child after age 17 unless the child hires an attorney and "joins" the original case and then gets an order from the court requiring both the NCP and the CP to pay adult attending school CS. This is why I got so ****ed at the CS system after my daughter reached age 18. My CS obligation was based on the income shares model considering both parent's incomes, but only the NCP parent was required to pay the CS money to the child direct as specified in the law. The CP under the appellate decision in Thomas has no obligation to support a post-17 child. The appeals court made it very clear in Thomas only the NCP can be ordered to support the child's advanced education pursuits. |
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