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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
Kane writes:
Would you trust CPS, who while operating under federal guidelines that are being questioned now, as I have in the past, as being inoperable for adequate delivery of client services, was able to bring down the number of abuses and even reduced the number of sexual abuse cases by 40%? Hi, Kane! I don't know what other members of this forum have been saying to you, but they sure have you on the run. I thought you were telling Fern weeks ago that the reduction in child sexual abuse cases was a statistical misreporting -- something about them not counting a certain age group, etc -- and that child sexual abuse was still going on at the same, or higher, rates but reported by agencies less. Are you now saying that incidents of child sexual abuse have gone down 40 percent? They have done what pilots have been made heros for...the safe landing of a badly disabled aircraft. That the Pew Commission -- made up of the some of the same child welfare experts we have been quoting for years -- has proposed reforms that will bring CPS down to earth is hardly a heroic act of CPS administrators in the left seat. With all the crippling, that you barnyard hens take as a license for YOU to peck at them, CPS has managed to do this, and save children lives. Who on earth do you claim has crippled CPS?? Reform measures now in front of Congress and state legislatures across the country may change CPS practice if they are passed, but CPS malfunction during the last three decades was the product of out-of-control agencies will almost no accountability to anyone. And your idea of reform is to point only at their faults and inability to make FEDERAL GUILDELINES work. No, the idea of the reforms I have posted and those now suggested by the Pew Commission is to change federal guidelines and mandates. Most especially, as many of us have written in this forum for years, changing Title IV-E funding to a capped entitlement that can be used by the states in a manner they see fit. We have constantly advocated for taking the foster care, poor kids strings off this funding. And they were simply attempting to bring MY TAX DOLLARS BACK TO MY STATE FOR SERVICES I DEMAND OF THE STATE. In simply attempting to bring back tax dollars to their state, CPS agency's incarcerated thousands of innocent children in foster care. Since those precious tax dollars were in the form of Title IV-E foster care funding, the agencies removed children from innocent parents out of greed. Why should families trust the expertise of CPS Because they have proven by the numbers posted by you and even the biggest disemmbler here, The Douggie, to have done a terrific job under nearly impossible odds. The Pew Commission has found that the foster care system is "unquestionably broken" and that CPS has done far less than a "terrific" job. which now has failed in every state to meet even minimum standards of efficacy and performance. Set by the feds, while dangling money? Sure, dummy. Sure. Why have experts started asking the same questions I do and have for some time now, that you and your Bud, Douggie the Magnificent have ignored? Many of those experts have been asking the same questions for many years. Child and family advocates have said for years that the foster care system was broken and that the federal funding through Title IV-E should be used for purposes other than foster care. Doug |
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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
On Thu, 20 May 2004 02:15:40 -0400, "Doug" wrote:
Kane writes: Would you trust CPS, who while operating under federal guidelines that are being questioned now, as I have in the past, as being inoperable for adequate delivery of client services, was able to bring down the number of abuses and even reduced the number of sexual abuse cases by 40%? Hi, Kane! I don't know what other members of this forum have been saying to you, but they sure have you on the run. I thought you were telling Fern weeks ago that the reduction in child sexual abuse cases was a statistical misreporting -- something about them not counting a certain age group, etc -- and that child sexual abuse was still going on at the same, or higher, rates but reported by agencies less. Are you now saying that incidents of child sexual abuse have gone down 40 percent? Nope, still saying reports have. And that YOU assholes can't have it both ways.......claiming a failure of CPS but claiming a decrease in sex abuse as a defense for crippling CPS further for lack of work to do. Either CPS did or didn't have an effect on the percentage drop...now which is it you liar? They have done what pilots have been made heros for...the safe landing of a badly disabled aircraft. That the Pew Commission -- made up of the some of the same child welfare experts we have been quoting for years -- has proposed reforms that will bring CPS down to earth is hardly a heroic act of CPS administrators in the left seat. You have your seats mixed up. Unless you think the experts are the copilots. Stop blaming CPS for what was forced on them. With all the crippling, that you barnyard hens take as a license for YOU to peck at them, CPS has managed to do this, and save children lives. Who on earth do you claim has crippled CPS?? Reform measures now in front of Congress and state legislatures across the country may change CPS practice if they are passed, but CPS malfunction during the last three decades was the product of out-of-control agencies will almost no accountability to anyone. That is a bald faced lie. They struggled the entire time to be accountable to the feds, and were under constant scrutiny by their own legislatures. How do you stand yourself? And your idea of reform is to point only at their faults and inability to make FEDERAL GUILDELINES work. No, the idea of the reforms I have posted and those now suggested by the Pew Commission is to change federal guidelines and mandates. Have you ever seen my suggest otherwise? Have you ever SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE ANTI CPS KANT IN THESE NGS? EVER? The consisted of things like "Kill CPS" and you let it go on. And you encouraged and patted on the head those that indulged in it. YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT? Most especially, as many of us have written in this forum for years, changing Title IV-E funding to a capped entitlement that can be used by the states in a manner they see fit. Which "Many" is that? List them and site their instances of having "written" what you claim. "used by the states in a manner they see fit" eh? Show me where even YOU have ever said that before. Go ahead. When you have cited YOU from the archives, show me who else has EVER SAID SUCH A THING...except possibly myself in other wording. Come on Douggie. Show us the citations. We have constantly advocated for taking the foster care, poor kids strings off this funding. Appeals to emotion are just another of your gimmicky ploys, Douggie. The point is you and I agreed long ago that the people on the line had a better grasp of what was needed and would work, but YOU encouraged your lying pack of hyenas here in this ng to ignore this. And no, you, as in the pack of you, have done NO SUCH THING. Some of you have advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS, or stripping them of some of their most powerful inhibitors of child abuse...and the Pew commission spotlighted this very nicely in just a few words. And they were simply attempting to bring MY TAX DOLLARS BACK TO MY STATE FOR SERVICES I DEMAND OF THE STATE. In simply attempting to bring back tax dollars to their state, CPS agency's incarcerated thousands of innocent children in foster care. They did NOT incarcerated. They placed them in out of home care. No jails involved at all, you liar. Since those precious tax dollars were in the form of Title IV-E foster care funding, the agencies removed children from innocent parents out of greed. Bull****. You are a clearly identified liar in other matters, and this as well. The did so out of ORDERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. BY LAW. Why should families trust the expertise of CPS Because they have proven by the numbers posted by you and even the biggest disemmbler here, The Douggie, to have done a terrific job under nearly impossible odds. The Pew Commission has found that the foster care system is "unquestionably broken" and that CPS has done far less than a "terrific" job. Under federally mandated policy guidelines set by LAW, both federal and the required state "sister laws." You are obfuscating yet again. which now has failed in every state to meet even minimum standards of efficacy and performance. Set by the feds, while dangling money? Sure, dummy. Sure. Why have experts started asking the same questions I do and have for some time now, that you and your Bud, Douggie the Magnificent have ignored? Many of those experts have been asking the same questions for many years. Child and family advocates have said for years that the foster care system was broken and that the federal funding through Title IV-E should be used for purposes other than foster care. And you certainly haven't seen ME disagree. My bitch is with the constant hammering at CPS WITHOUT BLAMING THE FEDS FOR THE DEBACLE. If you steal a man's wallet (taxes), then force him to dance to get it back, he's likely to dance to your tune. NOW the feds are going to move the funding to thugs of their own choosing and it will be worse, not better...you know damn well that there is going to be NO CAPPED FUNDING the states can use at their discretion. There will be a MORE tightly controlled federal dispensation of money and favors and power. Public education is going through this just as child protection is. It's the same pattern, and it's cronyism, and the states HAVE NOT, as you lie, simply paid off local vendors....they can't FIND ENOUGH OF THEM TO TREAT THE DAMAGE DONE TO CHILDREN BY THEIR OWN PARENTS NOW, YOU ****ING LIAR. Doug And you have a great evening, Sir! Kane |
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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
"Kane" wrote in message m... On Thu, 20 May 2004 02:15:40 -0400, "Doug" wrote: Kane writes: Would you trust CPS, who while operating under federal guidelines that are being questioned now, as I have in the past, as being inoperable for adequate delivery of client services, was able to bring down the number of abuses and even reduced the number of sexual abuse cases by 40%? Hi, Kane! I don't know what other members of this forum have been saying to you, but they sure have you on the run. I thought you were telling Fern weeks ago that the reduction in child sexual abuse cases was a statistical misreporting -- something about them not counting a certain age group, etc -- and that child sexual abuse was still going on at the same, or higher, rates but reported by agencies less. Are you now saying that incidents of child sexual abuse have gone down 40 percent? Nope, still saying reports have. And that YOU assholes can't have it both ways.......claiming a failure of CPS but claiming a decrease in sex abuse as a defense for crippling CPS further for lack of work to do. Sex abuse is one of the smaller catagories but gets all the attention. Meaningful reforms will be evidenced in other areas. Either CPS did or didn't have an effect on the percentage drop...now which is it you liar? They have done what pilots have been made heros for...the safe landing of a badly disabled aircraft. That the Pew Commission -- made up of the some of the same child welfare experts we have been quoting for years -- has proposed reforms that will bring CPS down to earth is hardly a heroic act of CPS administrators in the left seat. You have your seats mixed up. Unless you think the experts are the copilots. Stop blaming CPS for what was forced on them. Actually CPS lobbied for current policy. Nothing was forced on them.... except recent court decisions that do not agree. With all the crippling, that you barnyard hens take as a license for YOU to peck at them, CPS has managed to do this, and save children lives. Who on earth do you claim has crippled CPS?? Reform measures now in front of Congress and state legislatures across the country may change CPS practice if they are passed, but CPS malfunction during the last three decades was the product of out-of-control agencies will almost no accountability to anyone. That is a bald faced lie. They struggled the entire time to be accountable to the feds, and were under constant scrutiny by their own legislatures. How do you stand yourself? I repeat.. CPS got what they wanted from the Feds.. it wasn't forced on them. As far as constant scrutiny.. there was none... all have failed recent federal reviews. CPS certainly did not fear the feds.. or even the provision denying states federal funding for failure to conform. CPS has had free rein.. until public out-cry reached the ears of true professionals, the courts, and legislators. bobb And your idea of reform is to point only at their faults and inability to make FEDERAL GUILDELINES work. No, the idea of the reforms I have posted and those now suggested by the Pew Commission is to change federal guidelines and mandates. Have you ever seen my suggest otherwise? Have you ever SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE ANTI CPS KANT IN THESE NGS? EVER? The consisted of things like "Kill CPS" and you let it go on. And you encouraged and patted on the head those that indulged in it. YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT? Most especially, as many of us have written in this forum for years, changing Title IV-E funding to a capped entitlement that can be used by the states in a manner they see fit. Which "Many" is that? List them and site their instances of having "written" what you claim. "used by the states in a manner they see fit" eh? Show me where even YOU have ever said that before. Go ahead. When you have cited YOU from the archives, show me who else has EVER SAID SUCH A THING...except possibly myself in other wording. Come on Douggie. Show us the citations. We have constantly advocated for taking the foster care, poor kids strings off this funding. Appeals to emotion are just another of your gimmicky ploys, Douggie. The point is you and I agreed long ago that the people on the line had a better grasp of what was needed and would work, but YOU encouraged your lying pack of hyenas here in this ng to ignore this. And no, you, as in the pack of you, have done NO SUCH THING. Some of you have advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS, or stripping them of some of their most powerful inhibitors of child abuse...and the Pew commission spotlighted this very nicely in just a few words. And they were simply attempting to bring MY TAX DOLLARS BACK TO MY STATE FOR SERVICES I DEMAND OF THE STATE. In simply attempting to bring back tax dollars to their state, CPS agency's incarcerated thousands of innocent children in foster care. They did NOT incarcerated. They placed them in out of home care. No jails involved at all, you liar. Since those precious tax dollars were in the form of Title IV-E foster care funding, the agencies removed children from innocent parents out of greed. Bull****. You are a clearly identified liar in other matters, and this as well. The did so out of ORDERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. BY LAW. Why should families trust the expertise of CPS Because they have proven by the numbers posted by you and even the biggest disemmbler here, The Douggie, to have done a terrific job under nearly impossible odds. The Pew Commission has found that the foster care system is "unquestionably broken" and that CPS has done far less than a "terrific" job. Under federally mandated policy guidelines set by LAW, both federal and the required state "sister laws." You are obfuscating yet again. which now has failed in every state to meet even minimum standards of efficacy and performance. Set by the feds, while dangling money? Sure, dummy. Sure. Why have experts started asking the same questions I do and have for some time now, that you and your Bud, Douggie the Magnificent have ignored? Many of those experts have been asking the same questions for many years. Child and family advocates have said for years that the foster care system was broken and that the federal funding through Title IV-E should be used for purposes other than foster care. And you certainly haven't seen ME disagree. My bitch is with the constant hammering at CPS WITHOUT BLAMING THE FEDS FOR THE DEBACLE. If you steal a man's wallet (taxes), then force him to dance to get it back, he's likely to dance to your tune. NOW the feds are going to move the funding to thugs of their own choosing and it will be worse, not better...you know damn well that there is going to be NO CAPPED FUNDING the states can use at their discretion. There will be a MORE tightly controlled federal dispensation of money and favors and power. Public education is going through this just as child protection is. It's the same pattern, and it's cronyism, and the states HAVE NOT, as you lie, simply paid off local vendors....they can't FIND ENOUGH OF THEM TO TREAT THE DAMAGE DONE TO CHILDREN BY THEIR OWN PARENTS NOW, YOU ****ING LIAR. Doug And you have a great evening, Sir! Kane |
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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
Kane writes:
And that YOU assholes can't have it both ways.......claiming a failure of CPS but claiming a decrease in sex abuse as a defense for crippling CPS further for lack of work to do. Hi, Kane! Who wrote all of that? Certainly not me or anyone else on this forum other than you. Either CPS did or didn't have an effect on the percentage drop...now which is it you liar? As research posted to this newsgroup has reported, there are many possible reasons for the decrease. Among them, a sizable blacklash from the 20 year history of false allegations in this area. Citizens and mandated reporters are discovering that the phamplets handed out by the agencies regarding "indicators" of sexual abuse are wrong. You have your seats mixed up. Unless you think the experts are the copilots. I have the seats right. The pilot sits in the left seat. Stop blaming CPS for what was forced on them. CPS malpractice was carried out at the agencies' direction and not anyone elses. No one else is to blame. With all the crippling, that you barnyard hens take as a license for YOU to peck at them, CPS has managed to do this, and save children lives. Who on earth do you claim has crippled CPS?? Reform measures now in front of Congress and state legislatures across the country may change CPS practice if they are passed, but CPS malfunction during the last three decades was the product of out-of-control agencies will almost no accountability to anyone. That is a bald faced lie. They struggled the entire time to be accountable to the feds, and were under constant scrutiny by their own legislatures. How do you stand yourself? CPS agencies were not under the scrutiny of state legislatures nor accountable to the feds. The recent audits were a federal attempt to BEGIN to hold the agencies accountable. And your idea of reform is to point only at their faults and inability to make FEDERAL GUILDELINES work. No, the idea of the reforms I have posted and those now suggested by the Pew Commission is to change federal guidelines and mandates. Have you ever seen my suggest otherwise? Have you ever SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE ANTI CPS KANT IN THESE NGS? EVER? The consisted of things like "Kill CPS" and you let it go on. And you encouraged and patted on the head those that indulged in it. YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT? LOL! No beef? If you have some substantial information that addresses the issue we are discussing, I would be glad to see it. The silly name calling suggests you lack that information. Most especially, as many of us have written in this forum for years, changing Title IV-E funding to a capped entitlement that can be used by the states in a manner they see fit. Which "Many" is that? List them and site their instances of having "written" what you claim. I have. Many times. The others may or may not choose to respond regarding their participation. "used by the states in a manner they see fit" eh? Show me where even YOU have ever said that before. Go ahead. When you have cited YOU from the archives, show me who else has EVER SAID SUCH A THING...except possibly myself in other wording. Many times. I am sure the premise was made using a wide array of wording and phrasing at different times. Come on Douggie. Show us the citations. We have constantly advocated for taking the foster care, poor kids strings off this funding. Appeals to emotion are just another of your gimmicky ploys, Douggie. The point is you and I agreed long ago that the people on the line had a better grasp of what was needed and would work, but YOU encouraged your lying pack of hyenas here in this ng to ignore this. Linepeople following current policy and enmeshed in systemic dysfunction are making grave errors that injure the very children they are mandated to protect. And no, you, as in the pack of you, have done NO SUCH THING. Some of you have advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS, or stripping them of some of their most powerful inhibitors of child abuse...and the Pew commission spotlighted this very nicely in just a few words. I have not advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS. What sort of "powerful inhibitors" are you talking about? What specific actions do you put in that category? Without knowing what you are addressing, I have no way of knowing if I advocated for taking them away or not. And they were simply attempting to bring MY TAX DOLLARS BACK TO MY STATE FOR SERVICES I DEMAND OF THE STATE. In simply attempting to bring back tax dollars to their state, CPS agency's incarcerated thousands of innocent children in foster care. They did NOT incarcerated. They placed them in out of home care. No jails involved at all, you liar. Children with liberty interests in living peacefully with their families are being forcibly removed from their homes under the color of law and forcibly confined in state custody. More than 74% of them are confined with strangers in various types of structures. Since those precious tax dollars were in the form of Title IV-E foster care funding, the agencies removed children from innocent parents out of greed. Bull****. You are a clearly identified liar in other matters, and this as well. The did so out of ORDERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. BY LAW. You are absolutely and categorically incorrect. These children were removed by state child protective agencies on their own initiative with the motivation to collect federal funding. The federal government did NOT order these agencies to do it. The feds set the criteria for their money. Since that criteria provides an incentive to incarcerate poor children, they are accountable. But that state agencies chose to remove children to get access to that money is appalling. Why should families trust the expertise of CPS Because they have proven by the numbers posted by you and even the biggest disemmbler here, The Douggie, to have done a terrific job under nearly impossible odds. The Pew Commission has found that the foster care system is "unquestionably broken" and that CPS has done far less than a "terrific" job. Under federally mandated policy guidelines set by LAW, both federal and the required state "sister laws." The state child protection agencies bear responsibility for their malpractice. The Nazi defense, "I was ordered to do it" won't work for personnel of these agencies. The workers within these agencies are accountable for their own actions. You are obfuscating yet again. which now has failed in every state to meet even minimum standards of efficacy and performance. Set by the feds, while dangling money? Sure, dummy. Sure. Why have experts started asking the same questions I do and have for some time now, that you and your Bud, Douggie the Magnificent have ignored? Many of those experts have been asking the same questions for many years. Child and family advocates have said for years that the foster care system was broken and that the federal funding through Title IV-E should be used for purposes other than foster care. And you certainly haven't seen ME disagree. My bitch is with the constant hammering at CPS WITHOUT BLAMING THE FEDS FOR THE DEBACLE. If you steal a man's wallet (taxes), then force him to dance to get it back, he's likely to dance to your tune. If he dances to the tune in violation of his ethics and moral convictions, just to get at the money, he alone must face the music. He is responsible. It is simply inhumane to remove children from their parents, inflicting tremendous emotional damage, for a buck. The feds are responsible to providing the temptation, but the state workers are solely responsible for yeilding to the temptation by irreparably injuring the very children they were mandated to protect. For the damage they have done to children, the agencies are fully responsible. NOW the feds are going to move the funding to thugs of their own choosing and it will be worse, not better...you know damn well that there is going to be NO CAPPED FUNDING the states can use at their discretion. Thugs are thugs, whoever pays them. In this thread, we have been talking about holding the current thugs accountable for the damage they have already done to children. You argue that we should worry about different thugs paid by the feds without considering the damage already done by the state thugs. There will be a MORE tightly controlled federal dispensation of money and favors and power. Public education is going through this just as child protection is. It's the same pattern, and it's cronyism, and the states HAVE NOT, as you lie, simply paid off local vendors....they can't FIND ENOUGH OF THEM TO TREAT THE DAMAGE DONE TO CHILDREN BY THEIR OWN PARENTS NOW, YOU ****ING LIAR. The state child protection agencies currently pay thousands of local vendors -- therapists, consultants, advisors, GAL's, group home operators, caseworkers, parenting teachers, counselors, lawyers, assorted species of jacklegs, partridges and the pear trees in which they roost. Have a wonderful day, sir! You are an adult, so you can be relatively confident that you can spend it at home with those you love. Doug |
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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
On Thu, 20 May 2004 23:31:02 -0500, "bobb"
wrote: "Kane" wrote in message om... On Thu, 20 May 2004 02:15:40 -0400, "Doug" wrote: Kane writes: Would you trust CPS, who while operating under federal guidelines that are being questioned now, as I have in the past, as being inoperable for adequate delivery of client services, was able to bring down the number of abuses and even reduced the number of sexual abuse cases by 40%? Hi, Kane! I don't know what other members of this forum have been saying to you, but they sure have you on the run. I thought you were telling Fern weeks ago that the reduction in child sexual abuse cases was a statistical misreporting -- something about them not counting a certain age group, etc -- and that child sexual abuse was still going on at the same, or higher, rates but reported by agencies less. Are you now saying that incidents of child sexual abuse have gone down 40 percent? Nope, still saying reports have. And that YOU assholes can't have it both ways.......claiming a failure of CPS but claiming a decrease in sex abuse as a defense for crippling CPS further for lack of work to do. Sex abuse is one of the smaller catagories but gets all the attention. Crock, as usual. All abuse and neglect gets "attention." YOU give sex abuse too much attention, bobbarino. Meaningful reforms will be evidenced in other areas. But not in sex abuse? Like it's gone? A reduction isn't an eradication. Either CPS did or didn't have an effect on the percentage drop...now which is it you liar? They have done what pilots have been made heros for...the safe landing of a badly disabled aircraft. That the Pew Commission -- made up of the some of the same child welfare experts we have been quoting for years -- has proposed reforms that will bring CPS down to earth is hardly a heroic act of CPS administrators in the left seat. You have your seats mixed up. Unless you think the experts are the copilots. Stop blaming CPS for what was forced on them. Actually CPS lobbied for current policy. Crock. They simply asked to be funded for the mandates coming down from the feds, in response to the failures of CAPTA. ASFA was what they got, and you forget I was there. What was asked for, and I remember it well, and agreed with the workers and administrators input......IS EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED NOW..............MORE upfront services to families to bring out reunification. The assholes, many who spoke about human beings LIKE YOU DO YOU ASSHOLE, insisted that what would make for unification was the club of shortening the timelines and making good on the threats to remove their children. It was neanderthal then and was fought by a great many people in the lower ranks. The admin simply patted them on the head, and outspoken citizens such as myself, and insured us that service delivery of up front support for families would increase.....they even gave special names to little demonstration programs....AND FAILED TO FUND THEM ADUQUATELY..... Nothing was forced on them.... except recent court decisions that do not agree. Crock o'shiit as usual from you. YOU don't remember the facts of the matter at all. There were two factions, and I was asked to shut up by the other side, or my state might not get much of anything. With all the crippling, that you barnyard hens take as a license for YOU to peck at them, CPS has managed to do this, and save children lives. Who on earth do you claim has crippled CPS?? Reform measures now in front of Congress and state legislatures across the country may change CPS practice if they are passed, but CPS malfunction during the last three decades was the product of out-of-control agencies will almost no accountability to anyone. That is a bald faced lie. They struggled the entire time to be accountable to the feds, and were under constant scrutiny by their own legislatures. How do you stand yourself? I repeat.. CPS got what they wanted from the Feds.. it wasn't forced on them. You are just one more of the stupid thugs that claim that we were not there or if there are lying the asses off about what happened. As far as constant scrutiny.. there was none... all have failed recent federal reviews. Failed on seven points, often by a hairsbredth, ignoring all the other demanding requirements of client service, and surveyed by stacking the deck on the means of choosing cases to audit. I said before, and I'll say it again. The fix was in from the beginning. The states were meant to fail. CPS certainly did not fear the feds.. You stupid asshole. I went to mixed pubic agency, private agency (like Casey Foundation, Children's Defense Fund, etc.) and citizens meetings with up to 500 people at them were the MAJOR TOPIC WAS FEAR OF THE FEDS AND OUTCOMES EXACTLY LIKE THIS. We were polite in the meeting halls, but you should have seen us in the parking lot and on the streets. We were screaming bloody murder at the feds coming out of the meetings after us, all smug having conned everyone...well, almost everyone. or even the provision denying states federal funding for failure to conform. Look, Dummy. I you take a look at the data for child abuse over the teim of ASFA, you will see a steady, but slow reduction, with a few ups and downs, but over all, DOWNS, and in some areas dramatic. To do that with the overloads...........that went against predictions.....no one could foresee the immense impact of the shift to meth, and the hugh increase in heroin addiction....and the demands of the federal mandate that showed early on they were nearly impossible to meet.....IS AN IMMENSE VICTORY FOR CPS...but of course will be ignored. Ever ski competitively? It's like going for the Giant Slalom, making absolutely record winning time, and lossing because of a few points taken off for minor penalties. CPS has had free rein.. R R R R R .........what a Douggie suckin' asshole you are. That's the propaganda claim. I've seen legislative hearings for years with CPS at the table having to explain their actions. You dipwad. You think you are in exclusive high toned company with Douggie and crew..... They and he are a pack of lying twits. Disgusting to anyone that has been close to this as I have since 1976. until public out-cry reached the ears of true professionals, the courts, and legislators. Crock O'**** as usual. I'm so sick of you dumbass and vicious lying twits. How's 14 years ago suit you, asshole: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:W...=en&i e=UTF-8 The one refers to dates back into the '80's. http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:c...=en&i e=UTF-8 What I can't supply you is material from news media "morgues" as their archives back to those times require a paid subscription in many instance, but I well recall news articles as far back as 1980, when I did a practicum with CPS. I dreaded it and only did it because my faculty advisor insisted (she was an old retired private child welfare agency worker) that I make it my first. In other words my head was full of the nonsense of the public outcries about abuses of CPS, WHICH WHEN I WAS A STUDENT INTERN I DID NOT FIND....and I ran an anthropological field study on the largest agency office in my state at the time (which of course they were not privy too...as it kills a flied study if you tell the subjects you are observing them). I managed to maintain contact for 9 months in support of my minor. What I found was large group of hard working, road weary, and often shell shocked folks dealing with unbelievable barriers and extraordinary conditions...we are talking horrors here....and caseloads that by 1990 were in the 80's and more per worker. YOU ****ERS ARE LIARS OR IGNORANT BABBLING CRETINS. I have to ask myself why you chose to comment on so few of the points I bought up. All that comes to mind is that you are either too stupid to respond to the important ones, or you are cherry picking under the guidance of the asswipe that posts here as Doug. bobb Kane And your idea of reform is to point only at their faults and inability to make FEDERAL GUILDELINES work. No, the idea of the reforms I have posted and those now suggested by the Pew Commission is to change federal guidelines and mandates. Have you ever seen my suggest otherwise? Have you ever SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE ANTI CPS KANT IN THESE NGS? EVER? The consisted of things like "Kill CPS" and you let it go on. And you encouraged and patted on the head those that indulged in it. YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT? Most especially, as many of us have written in this forum for years, changing Title IV-E funding to a capped entitlement that can be used by the states in a manner they see fit. Which "Many" is that? List them and site their instances of having "written" what you claim. "used by the states in a manner they see fit" eh? Show me where even YOU have ever said that before. Go ahead. When you have cited YOU from the archives, show me who else has EVER SAID SUCH A THING...except possibly myself in other wording. Come on Douggie. Show us the citations. We have constantly advocated for taking the foster care, poor kids strings off this funding. Appeals to emotion are just another of your gimmicky ploys, Douggie. The point is you and I agreed long ago that the people on the line had a better grasp of what was needed and would work, but YOU encouraged your lying pack of hyenas here in this ng to ignore this. And no, you, as in the pack of you, have done NO SUCH THING. Some of you have advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS, or stripping them of some of their most powerful inhibitors of child abuse...and the Pew commission spotlighted this very nicely in just a few words. And they were simply attempting to bring MY TAX DOLLARS BACK TO MY STATE FOR SERVICES I DEMAND OF THE STATE. In simply attempting to bring back tax dollars to their state, CPS agency's incarcerated thousands of innocent children in foster care. They did NOT incarcerated. They placed them in out of home care. No jails involved at all, you liar. Since those precious tax dollars were in the form of Title IV-E foster care funding, the agencies removed children from innocent parents out of greed. Bull****. You are a clearly identified liar in other matters, and this as well. The did so out of ORDERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. BY LAW. Why should families trust the expertise of CPS Because they have proven by the numbers posted by you and even the biggest disemmbler here, The Douggie, to have done a terrific job under nearly impossible odds. The Pew Commission has found that the foster care system is "unquestionably broken" and that CPS has done far less than a "terrific" job. Under federally mandated policy guidelines set by LAW, both federal and the required state "sister laws." You are obfuscating yet again. which now has failed in every state to meet even minimum standards of efficacy and performance. Set by the feds, while dangling money? Sure, dummy. Sure. Why have experts started asking the same questions I do and have for some time now, that you and your Bud, Douggie the Magnificent have ignored? Many of those experts have been asking the same questions for many years. Child and family advocates have said for years that the foster care system was broken and that the federal funding through Title IV-E should be used for purposes other than foster care. And you certainly haven't seen ME disagree. My bitch is with the constant hammering at CPS WITHOUT BLAMING THE FEDS FOR THE DEBACLE. If you steal a man's wallet (taxes), then force him to dance to get it back, he's likely to dance to your tune. NOW the feds are going to move the funding to thugs of their own choosing and it will be worse, not better...you know damn well that there is going to be NO CAPPED FUNDING the states can use at their discretion. There will be a MORE tightly controlled federal dispensation of money and favors and power. Public education is going through this just as child protection is. It's the same pattern, and it's cronyism, and the states HAVE NOT, as you lie, simply paid off local vendors....they can't FIND ENOUGH OF THEM TO TREAT THE DAMAGE DONE TO CHILDREN BY THEIR OWN PARENTS NOW, YOU ****ING LIAR. Doug And you have a great evening, Sir! Kane |
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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
"Doug" wrote in message ...
Kane writes: And that YOU assholes can't have it both ways.......claiming a failure of CPS but claiming a decrease in sex abuse as a defense for crippling CPS further for lack of work to do. Hi, Kane! Who wrote all of that? Certainly not me or anyone else on this forum other than you. Your favorite patronized Plant, Douggie. Try reading those whose asses you pat. Either CPS did or didn't have an effect on the percentage drop...now which is it you liar? As research posted to this newsgroup has reported, there are many possible reasons for the decrease. Among them, a sizable blacklash from the 20 year history of false allegations in this area. Citizens and mandated reporters are discovering that the phamplets handed out by the agencies regarding "indicators" of sexual abuse are wrong. Well, I've read the pamphlets and discussed them with psychatrists and psychologists that treat both offenders and victims. YOU are wrong, nummy. What you focus on, in your lying way, and take advantage of the ignorant with is ignoring that line about "patters of behavior," in the many single behaviors don't alone constitute proof of abuse, but when they mount up...... You make me sick you ****. You have your seats mixed up. Unless you think the experts are the copilots. I have the seats right. The pilot sits in the left seat. I know where the pilot sits, asshole. AND THE STATE IS NOT THE PILOT, not when they are being directed by the feds, and following federal law to the point of having to pass sister laws in support of the federal laws. Stop being a wiseass. You knew exactly what I meant. Stop blaming CPS for what was forced on them. CPS malpractice was carried out at the agencies' direction and not anyone elses. No one else is to blame. CPS managed to still maintain a drop or holding the line in child abuse and neglect and they were NOT acting soley under their own dirctions, you ****ing liar. How can anyone miss that they have for years been under threats by the feds all over the US? Some have even been taken over by the courts and I'M NOT HEARING OF GREAT FEATS OF IMPROVEMENT. The Feds set up a carrot and concealed the stick, then waved it around, now they are applying it....and the fix was in from the start for CPS to fail. Are you going to blame them for not being psysic? the 90' marked one of he bleakest periods in the drug scene, where everyone and their brother was setting up meth labs in their kitchen or basement. Drug use increased hugely in those years. And children's parents were drug users and makers. With all the crippling, that you barnyard hens take as a license for YOU to peck at them, CPS has managed to do this, and save children lives. Who on earth do you claim has crippled CPS?? Reform measures now in front of Congress and state legislatures across the country may change CPS practice if they are passed, but CPS malfunction during the last three decades was the product of out-of-control agencies will almost no accountability to anyone. That is a bald faced lie. They struggled the entire time to be accountable to the feds, and were under constant scrutiny by their own legislatures. How do you stand yourself? CPS agencies were not under the scrutiny of state legislatures nor accountable to the feds. R R R R ....I just posted to the other patronized twit of yours proof that that is not true. Hell, I went to state legislative hearings when CPS was involved clear back to 1980. By the nineties it was damn near a monthy affair while they were in session. The recent audits were a federal attempt to BEGIN to hold the agencies accountable. You have these assholes here well trained to ignore your lies, but I'm not among them. You are one sick ****, Doug....a social worker that lies about child welfare as a regular practice. If they haven't been under scrutiny for many years please explain these: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...lfare&as_qdr=y This goes back to 1990....l4 ****in' years ago, asshole: "As required in the Adoption and Safe Families Act, the Department has developed, in consultation with the field, an initial list of results measures that can be used to gauge State performance in ensuring child safety and permanence. The list has been published for comment in the Federal Register, and we are now reviewing input received from almost two-thirds of the states, at least 12 organizations, a number of researchers, several members of Congress, and other interested individuals. The Department has conducted 24 pilot tests of an outcomes-based monitoring system and has published proposed regulations that draw substantially on the lessons from those pilots. We currently are reviewing public comments on the regulations and intend to publish a final rule before the end of this year. As a result of federal financial assistance, technical support, and clear accountability that includes phased-in penalties, states are now collecting and able to report much more timely and accurate data on foster care and adoptions. Reporting on child abuse and neglect also has improved considerably, as a result of both financial and technical assistance. " What do you think "consultation with the field" means? They had coffee together once in 14 years? I've gone to meetings with both state and feds CALLING CPS ON THE CARPET TO EXPLAIN VARIOUS POLICY AND PRACTICE ISSUES SINCE 1990. YOU are a liar. Next one 8 years ago...look at the title: "Testimony on Safety and Well-Being of Abused & Neglected Children by Olivia A. Golden Acting Assistant Secretary for Children and Families U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Before the Senate Committee on Labor and Human Resources November 20, 1996" What do you think they are talking about and how did they get the information, by NOT OVERSEEING CPS? http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t961120a.html go ahead, take a look, liar. Let folks read a few things like the following and you and they will see why CPS is "failing," and in many instances only by a hair's breadth on a few of the 7 criteria...ignoring of course all the OTHER measures, like the their holding the line as abuse and they horrendousness of the KINDS of abuse when up...even bringing some of it down over the years. http://www.rand.org/publications/CF/CF123/burnam/ And here's a 1998 complaint petition in Texas....so no one is overseeing CPS eh? This one was filed with ...guess who.....the state ****ing legislature of Texas and the governor....one of those you claim provided no oversight for accountability. http://www.co.travis.tx.us/petition/summary.asp A Petition in Behalf of the Forsaken Children of Texas to the Governor and the 76th Legislature Executive Summary October 14, 1998 Judge F. Scott McCown This petition is about investigations by the Texas Child Protective Service of allegations of child abuse and neglect. This petition will show that due to a lack of resources: "CPS classifies too few calls about children as reports of abuse or neglect. Of those calls classified as reports, CPS assigns too few for investigation and completes the assigned investigations too slowly. Of those investigations completed, CPS confirms too few cases. Of those cases confirmed, CPS removes too few victims. This executive summary is written to tempt you to read the petition" I can tell you, Doug, you are wearing me down. I'm getting so tired of fielding your lies and pointing them out. I'm tired of you avoiding the larger issues I bring up and peeling off some inconsequential misuse of a term or a claim that misses the center of the target by an inch, BUT IS STILL ON TARGET...just like this issue, that I could puke. You make me sick you lying ****. And your idea of reform is to point only at their faults and inability to make FEDERAL GUILDELINES work. No, the idea of the reforms I have posted and those now suggested by the Pew Commission is to change federal guidelines and mandates. Have you ever seen my suggest otherwise? Have you ever SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE ANTI CPS KANT IN THESE NGS? EVER? The consisted of things like "Kill CPS" and you let it go on. And you encouraged and patted on the head those that indulged in it. YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT? LOL! No beef? You want me to cite all the lying **** filled destroy CPS posts on this very newsgroup and then ALL OF YOURS showing you pat these ****s on the head and congratulate them for posting biased media reports, and ignoring all the good CPS does do? Go **** yourself. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ctive-services Here, read them all yourself, then post a single post of yours decrying these viscious attacks and lies. Show me where you have challenged them. I remember one or two little "oh oh bobb, your figures are off by a bit" congratulatory bits of pap from you and that's it. If you have some substantial information that addresses the issue we are discussing, I would be glad to see it. The silly name calling suggests you lack that information. NO, the name calling isn't silly in the least. It identifies what you are clearly. And the disgust I hold for a professional in the field that would lie and mislead to the injury of children and the risk of families. **** you, asshole. As for the "substantial information" I've used many of the same sources YOU have during our exchanges, as well as others (see this and other recent posts), and fought your twisted lying interpretations again and again. YOur claim that I'm not supply ing substantial information is AN EXPOSURE OF YOUR LIES RIGHT IN THIS POST, AND PRIOR ONES I've replied to you in. As I said, you are a ****ing liar. I'm am sick to death of knowing someone like you has an MSW and is a member. Most especially, as many of us have written in this forum for years, changing Title IV-E funding to a capped entitlement that can be used by the states in a manner they see fit. Which "Many" is that? List them and site their instances of having "written" what you claim. I have. Many times. Cite them. Should be easy to find, or don't you google? Want me to look for them for you? ... or could it be that I have? The others may or may not choose to respond regarding their participation. Baaaawwwwk, baaaaaawk baaaaawk, chicken****. You made a claim. Now you won't back it up. "many times" eh? Why can't I find them? "used by the states in a manner they see fit" eh? Show me where even YOU have ever said that before. Go ahead. When you have cited YOU from the archives, show me who else has EVER SAID SUCH A THING...except possibly myself in other wording. Many times. I am sure the premise was made using a wide array of wording and phrasing at different times. R R R R............Do you know the poster I refer to as Droany? That's a favorite style of dodge of his. It's called "weaseling." I'm sure you are sure, but I'm sure you haven't answered my question. Where are they, in any form? Show me. Come on Douggie. Show us the citations. R R R R We have constantly advocated for taking the foster care, poor kids strings off this funding. Appeals to emotion are just another of your gimmicky ploys, Douggie. The point is you and I agreed long ago that the people on the line had a better grasp of what was needed and would work, but YOU encouraged your lying pack of hyenas here in this ng to ignore this. Linepeople following current policy and enmeshed in systemic dysfunction are making grave errors that injure the very children they are mandated to protect. Propaganda. There is no world in which mistakes are not made, and people injured. This is the infamous strawman. How could anyone disagree with you. Line people following ANY policy are ENMESHED in systematic dysfunction because NO system is perfect or even much better than stumbling along. Especially CPS with the crippling they have always worked under. Child abuse and neglect are ugly nasty horrible things to witness...and the public wants it fixed without having to witness it. They want it done fast and they want it done cheap and they don't want to to see it or pay for it. That attitude provides, created really, a perfect whipping boy for politically ambitious twits (that's why I rag you so much....you babble and rant and bull**** just like others I've seen and challenged over the years...as a citizen). Yah know how people are annoyed by and stereotype garbage men...? Well, this is worse, but the same thing. A dirty job no one wants to do but they want to criticize those that do it and underpay them to boot. And no, you, as in the pack of you, have done NO SUCH THING. Some of you have advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS, or stripping them of some of their most powerful inhibitors of child abuse...and the Pew commission spotlighted this very nicely in just a few words. I have not advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS. You have offered, as an argument, the opinions of those who say, dismantal and begin over with a new model? You didn't tell me that you wanted a police function to take over all investigation and enforcement work? Look familiar? "I have supported separate reform packages authored by social workers Lela Costin, Leroy Pelton, Duncan Lindsey, Phillip Schwartz, Howard Karger, Richard Gelles, Susan Orr, and others. Each of these authors have written reform packages that call for police to assume the role of investigating child abuse and neglect. Dr. Pelton, in an exhaustive work in 1989; Dr. Lindsey in an equally lengthy book in 1993; Dr. Costin, et al in 1996, Susan Orr in 1998, Richard Gelles in 2000 and Dr. Swartz in 2001." If all that is left, smartass, is CPS doing social work with volunary clients, they will be doing nothing as all the parents will be in jail. Do you really think the levels of abuse are going to diminish? Children will NOT go back to their parents. You are encouraging what will become a damn bloodbath. I don't know where you got those stats you offerred, or opinions, that CPS work to reunite families wasn't working, but you are full of ****. Even under that heavy load imposed by ASFA with the states HAVING to devote money to enforcement in an attempt to comply with federal guildelinse, the little pilot and demonstration projects for family unity were working. I think THAT was one of your more annoying lies. Dredge that up again for us. I'm going to make some calls to the researchers that came up with that crock. Addionally asshole, and I call that while I think of about this, more and more children will suffer more and more before their parents reach the level the police CAN intervene, and it will be the hospital or morgue for the children, jail for their parents........who did NOT ask for help because bad parents and fool druggies don't ASK FOR HELP...... What sort of "powerful inhibitors" are you talking about? What specific actions do you put in that category? Without knowing what you are addressing, I have no way of knowing if I advocated for taking them away or not. The threat of loss of their children would qualify. Don't you think? And that threat goes away, under what you advocate and I just posted, UNTIL THE CHILD IS DEAD OR SO INJURED THEY MIGHT AS WELL BE. We see enough of that already, you evil evil little man. And they were simply attempting to bring MY TAX DOLLARS BACK TO MY STATE FOR SERVICES I DEMAND OF THE STATE. In simply attempting to bring back tax dollars to their state, CPS agency's incarcerated thousands of innocent children in foster care. They did NOT incarcerated. They placed them in out of home care. No jails involved at all, you liar. Children with liberty interests in living peacefully with their families are being forcibly removed from their homes under the color of law and forcibly confined in state custody. Under color of law MEANS BY LEGAL MEANS...you little evil twit. "forcibly confined" R R R R .... They are FORCIBLY CONFINED then with their parents. Anyone that is their caregiver is FORCIBLY confining them, even the day care centers and public schools. What an evil ******* you are. More than 74% of them are confined with strangers in various types of structures. Gee, what happend to "incarcerated?" IN some states as many as 50% are with relatives, some of whom themselves kill or injure them. Stop the ****ing lies by misleading and misdirection. Homes, treatment centers for their parent induced psychological illnesses, and for some older ones, sadly, youth incarceration centers...the ONLY ONE YOU ARE CORRECT ABOUT....but they are ajudicated as delinquent youth. Basically you are the same kind of mindless twit that bobb is. You just are better educated hence better able to conceal your sickness and bigotry. Since those precious tax dollars were in the form of Title IV-E foster care funding, the agencies removed children from innocent parents out of greed. Bull****. You are a clearly identified liar in other matters, and this as well. The did so out of ORDERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. BY LAW. You are absolutely and categorically incorrect. These children were removed by state child protective agencies on their own initiative with the motivation to collect federal funding. Prove it. If so why are ANY OF THEM RETURNED TO THEIR PARENTS. What a liar. The federal government did NOT order these agencies to do it. Nope. They ordered them to respond to child abuse complaints. And the state must do so. It's the law. The feds set the criteria for their money. Since that criteria provides an incentive to incarcerate poor children, they are accountable. More poor children are in circumstances that amount to neglect and abuse. Nothing remarkable in that. Nor in that the feds and the states recognize it. Claims they are targetted just because they are poor is bull****. But that state agencies chose to remove children to get access to that money is appalling. What's appalling is that you lie about it. Why should families trust the expertise of CPS Because they have proven by the numbers posted by you and even the biggest disemmbler here, The Douggie, to have done a terrific job under nearly impossible odds. The Pew Commission has found that the foster care system is "unquestionably broken" and that CPS has done far less than a "terrific" job. Under federally mandated policy guidelines set by LAW, both federal and the required state "sister laws." The state child protection agencies bear responsibility for their malpractice. No question about it. Now show "malpractice" in relation to law and standard child welfare practice. You may find such information in law books and in the texts of well known schools of social work. The Nazi defense, "I was ordered to do it" won't work for personnel of these agencies. And that is not the defense, but that is not a valid claim. Those that break the law are NOT allowed to use it validly. You have seen reports in this ng of such going to jail, losing jobs, being demoted and other penalties. And the agencies are NOT breaking any laws, and you know it. Not state, not federal. So who is going to be on this world court to try CPS personnel for their gestapo like behavior, eh? You and your cronies are so full of ****. This hyperbolic ranting is right out of the overheated steamy rhetoric of the websites and pronouncement of little crazy ass anti CPS anti Government nutsos I can't believe and educated man would fall for that ****...though I've seen ego empaired crackpost with good educations go down to it before. The workers within these agencies are accountable for their own actions. As I said, you run this crap constantly. I know they are. I've been a party to them having to be accountable...and they were. Some fired, some demoted, some fired and barred for state employment for life. So don't give me that bull****. They ARE NOT resonsible for the machinations of the Feds or the State. If so, and you are telling the truth, then YOU ARE HEADED FOR A FALL. You work for the state, do you not? Guilt by association. I should have expected that from you. You are obfuscating yet again. which now has failed in every state to meet even minimum standards of efficacy and performance. Set by the feds, while dangling money? Sure, dummy. Sure. Why have experts started asking the same questions I do and have for some time now, that you and your Bud, Douggie the Magnificent have ignored? Many of those experts have been asking the same questions for many years. Child and family advocates have said for years that the foster care system was broken and that the federal funding through Title IV-E should be used for purposes other than foster care. And you certainly haven't seen ME disagree. My bitch is with the constant hammering at CPS WITHOUT BLAMING THE FEDS FOR THE DEBACLE. If you steal a man's wallet (taxes), then force him to dance to get it back, he's likely to dance to your tune. If he dances to the tune in violation of his ethics and moral convictions, just to get at the money, he alone must face the music. You, skuzzball, are talking about the public. Who do you think I was referring to? He is responsible. Yes, the public is. So YOU want the public to hang the workers they paid and directed by the laws passed. What a lowlife you are. It is simply inhumane to remove children from their parents, inflicting tremendous emotional damage, for a buck. That is not why they are removed. That's the big lie tactic, and you make yourself known as a liar by spouting it. Nearly everyone believes it...nearly that is, unless they have held CPS under the kind of careful scrutiny I have for many years. This may not be the best way to run CPS but it is the way that evolved. The ONLY way the feds offerred to fund child protection. Now you want the feds to fix it? R R R R ....and you think they'll do better this time around. The states should be suing the feds for misrepresentation and taking back those billions in tax dollars. That's the only way it can happen ethically. MORE of CAPTA followed by ASFA followed now by Plan C, is not going to fix it and if you had a ****ing brain in your stupid little pointy head you'd know it. Did you manage to take even ONE quarter of policital sciense? Get your text out, dust it off and study. The feds are responsible to providing the temptation, "TEMPTATION?" For **** sakes man, it was A THREAT...IT WAS THE GUN TO THE HEAD. If you want this money you WILL dance to our tune was what it was. I sat through hour after hour of conferences where, in essence, that WAS the bottom line when the states were asking for MORE support for reunification and upfront family support money. YOU ****ING LIAR. Or weren't you around for those times? but the state workers are solely responsible for yeilding to the temptation by irreparably injuring the very children they were mandated to protect. If that was what they were doing in numbers that reflected anything more than the expected statistical human error in systems I'd agree with you. But I know it's not so. The children coming into the system ARE NOT universally or even in the majority, unharmed by parents. Many that return home are injured for life by PARENTS, but the state has to return them because of legal and policy limitations. For the damage they have done to children, the agencies are fully responsible. Yep, you just lie about the numbers. And lots of suckers here eat it up. NOW the feds are going to move the funding to thugs of their own choosing and it will be worse, not better...you know damn well that there is going to be NO CAPPED FUNDING the states can use at their discretion. Thugs are thugs, whoever pays them. In this thread, we have been talking about holding the current thugs accountable for the damage they have already done to children. You argue that we should worry about different thugs paid by the feds without considering the damage already done by the state thugs. No such argument has been made by me. I'm perfectly willing to have ANY AND ALL thugs worried about and stopped. The problem is that you are lying. It's the old "three times and eight time more likely" crappola. You are comparing populations with extremely different variables and making claims that are not supportable. And everybody wants a ride. The political ambition slavering hyenas are running rampant....you aren't winning on truth, you are winning on lies because of the stupidity, ignorance, and cupidity of such as those. There will be a MORE tightly controlled federal dispensation of money and favors and power. Public education is going through this just as child protection is. It's the same pattern, and it's cronyism, and the states HAVE NOT, as you lie, simply paid off local vendors....they can't FIND ENOUGH OF THEM TO TREAT THE DAMAGE DONE TO CHILDREN BY THEIR OWN PARENTS NOW, YOU ****ING LIAR. The state child protection agencies currently pay thousands of local vendors -- therapists, consultants, advisors, GAL's, group home operators, caseworkers, parenting teachers, counselors, lawyers, As required by law. By the feds in fact. And when one sees what children have suffered that come into the system, it's no surprise these are needed. assorted species of jacklegs, partridges and the pear trees in which they roost. Same old ****, Douggie the Magnificent. Personally if there are going to be vendors, and there will always be considering the damage to children from their parental units, I want them controlled locally.........not remotely by the feds using their asskissing thugs in suits. Have a wonderful day, sir! You are an adult, so you can be relatively confident that you can spend it at home with those you love. If I were a child and my parents were abusing and neglecting me would YOU show up at my door in time, to get me out, give me some medical and psychological therapy, get my parents squared away so I could come home one day, or would you wait for it to get serious enough the cops had to be called.....when I was badly injured and disabled for life or dead? You are creep. Doug Kane |
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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
Kane writes:
How can anyone miss that they have for years been under threats by the feds all over the US? Some have even been taken over by the courts and I'M NOT HEARING OF GREAT FEATS OF IMPROVEMENT. Hi, Kane! Yes, increasingly, federal courts are taking over foster care systems throughout the country because of the agency's consistent refusal to consider reforming on their own. The results have been mixed. The Feds set up a carrot and concealed the stick, then waved it around, now they are applying it....and the fix was in from the start for CPS to fail. What sort of fix? What was the carrot? What is the stick? the 90' marked one of he bleakest periods in the drug scene, where everyone and their brother was setting up meth labs in their kitchen or basement. Drug use increased hugely in those years. And children's parents were drug users and makers. Perhaps one of the problems during that period was that state workers may have actually assumed that "everybody and their brother" was manufactoring methamphetamine. Such a generalization and contempt prior to investigation could have made it very tough for the children of everyone and their brother. The Department has conducted 24 pilot tests of an outcomes-based monitoring system and has published proposed regulations that draw substantially on the lessons from those pilots. We currently are reviewing public comments on the regulations and intend to publish a final rule before the end of this year. As a result of federal financial assistance, technical support, and clear accountability that includes phased-in penalties, states are now collecting and able to report much more timely and accurate data on foster care and adoptions. Reporting on child abuse and neglect also has improved considerably, as a result of both financial and technical assistance. " What do you think "consultation with the field" means? They had coffee together once in 14 years? What you cut and pasted is a discussion about how the feds sought out state input in designing the criteria for the audits that were conducted the past three years. It took that long from theory to practice. The process, as your cut and paste explains, was to go to the states for input and then print proposed quidelines in the Federal Register. States further commented on the published criteria, and the feds then went back to draft revisions, which were again published in the Federal Register. Let folks read a few things like the following and you and they will see why CPS is "failing," and in many instances only by a hair's breadth on a few of the 7 criteria...ignoring of course all the OTHER measures, like the their holding the line as abuse and they horrendousness of the KINDS of abuse when up...even bringing some of it down over the years. Responding to abuse reports and keeping children safe is among the components in one of the 7 groupings of criteria. YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT? LOL! No beef? You want me to cite all the lying **** filled destroy CPS posts on this very newsgroup and then ALL OF YOURS showing you pat these ****s on the head and congratulate them for posting biased media reports, and ignoring all the good CPS does do? Go **** yourself. A biophysical impossibility, I am told. Linepeople following current policy and enmeshed in systemic dysfunction are making grave errors that injure the very children they are mandated to protect. Propaganda. There is no world in which mistakes are not made, and people injured. This is the infamous strawman. How could anyone disagree with you. Line people following ANY policy are ENMESHED in systematic dysfunction because NO system is perfect or even much better than stumbling along. Especially CPS with the crippling they have always worked under. A dysfunctional system is in far worse shape than simply being imperfect. Child abuse and neglect are ugly nasty horrible things to witness...and the public wants it fixed without having to witness it. They want it done fast and they want it done cheap and they don't want to to see it or pay for it. I disagree. The public is paying billions for it. Citizens have a right to expect their employees to do their jobs in a way that does not injure children. At the very least, they should, "at first, do no harm." Lela Costin, Leroy Pelton, Duncan Lindsey, Phillip Schwartz, Howard Karger, Richard Gelles, Susan Orr, and others. Each of these authors have written reform packages that call for police to assume the role of investigating child abuse and neglect. Dr. Pelton, in an exhaustive work in 1989; Dr. Lindsey in an equally lengthy book in 1993; Dr. Costin, et al in 1996, Susan Orr in 1998, Richard Gelles in 2000 and Dr. Swartz in 2001." If all that is left, smartass, is CPS doing social work with volunary clients, they will be doing nothing as all the parents will be in jail. Do you really think the levels of abuse are going to diminish? There are other tasks left to do after police do investigation...like social work. What sort of "powerful inhibitors" are you talking about? What specific actions do you put in that category? Without knowing what you are addressing, I have no way of knowing if I advocated for taking them away or not. The threat of loss of their children would qualify. Don't you think? And that threat goes away, under what you advocate and I just posted, UNTIL THE CHILD IS DEAD OR SO INJURED THEY MIGHT AS WELL BE. The trouble is that when the state threatens parents with removal of their children, it becomes necessary to use the "hammer" and remove children when parents don't jump through hoops in the right way. This is precisely what leads to an overcrowded and abusive foster care system. Children should not be removed from their homes -- or threatened to be removed -- to force parents to accept a government "service" (sanction). Children with liberty interests in living peacefully with their families are being forcibly removed from their homes under the color of law and forcibly confined in state custody. Under color of law MEANS BY LEGAL MEANS...you little evil twit. Precisely. "forcibly confined" R R R R .... They are FORCIBLY CONFINED then with their parents. Anyone that is their caregiver is FORCIBLY confining them, even the day care centers and public schools. What an evil ******* you are. Incorrect. Children generally want to live in their homes with their parents and their siblings. Have you ever asked them? More than 74% of them are confined with strangers in various types of structures. Gee, what happend to "incarcerated?" IN some states as many as 50% are with relatives, some of whom themselves kill or injure them. Stop the ****ing lies by misleading and misdirection. The average is 24% nationwide. What states have 50%? Basically you are the same kind of mindless twit that bobb is. You just are better educated hence better able to conceal your sickness and bigotry. bobb is not a "mindless twit." To the contrary, he is a thoughtful member of this group who makes it a habit to write posts that encourage us to think about the issues. He does disagree with you on occassion, which is why you call him names. Nonetheless, you have a great day, sir! Doug |
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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
"Doug" wrote in message ... Kane writes: And that YOU assholes can't have it both ways.......claiming a failure of CPS but claiming a decrease in sex abuse as a defense for crippling CPS further for lack of work to do. Hi, Kane! Who wrote all of that? Certainly not me or anyone else on this forum other than you. Either CPS did or didn't have an effect on the percentage drop...now which is it you liar? As research posted to this newsgroup has reported, there are many possible reasons for the decrease. Among them, a sizable blacklash from the 20 year history of false allegations in this area. Citizens and mandated reporters are discovering that the phamplets handed out by the agencies regarding "indicators" of sexual abuse are wrong. You have your seats mixed up. Unless you think the experts are the copilots. I have the seats right. The pilot sits in the left seat. With their EB-6 and Far's manual... :-) Stop blaming CPS for what was forced on them. Nothing was forced on CPS. They lobbied congress, they lobbied states, and they contributed mightly to legislators who were hood-winked. Private agencies were often out front as well. It's unfortunate that so many kids were exploited for nefarious gain yet so many people wrongly listened to these 'experts'. CPS malpractice was carried out at the agencies' direction and not anyone elses. No one else is to blame. With all the crippling, that you barnyard hens take as a license for YOU to peck at them, CPS has managed to do this, and save children lives. Who on earth do you claim has crippled CPS?? Reform measures now in front of Congress and state legislatures across the country may change CPS practice if they are passed, but CPS malfunction during the last three decades was the product of out-of-control agencies will almost no accountability to anyone. That is a bald faced lie. They struggled the entire time to be accountable to the feds, and were under constant scrutiny by their own legislatures. How do you stand yourself? CPS agencies were not under the scrutiny of state legislatures nor accountable to the feds. The recent audits were a federal attempt to BEGIN to hold the agencies accountable. And your idea of reform is to point only at their faults and inability to make FEDERAL GUILDELINES work. No, the idea of the reforms I have posted and those now suggested by the Pew Commission is to change federal guidelines and mandates. Have you ever seen my suggest otherwise? Have you ever SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE ANTI CPS KANT IN THESE NGS? EVER? The consisted of things like "Kill CPS" and you let it go on. And you encouraged and patted on the head those that indulged in it. YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT? LOL! No beef? If you have some substantial information that addresses the issue we are discussing, I would be glad to see it. The silly name calling suggests you lack that information. He does that when backed into a corner... Most especially, as many of us have written in this forum for years, changing Title IV-E funding to a capped entitlement that can be used by the states in a manner they see fit. ... and will ultimately take credit for other's suggestion. Which "Many" is that? List them and site their instances of having "written" what you claim. I have. Many times. The others may or may not choose to respond regarding their participation. "used by the states in a manner they see fit" eh? Show me where even YOU have ever said that before. Go ahead. When you have cited YOU from the archives, show me who else has EVER SAID SUCH A THING...except possibly myself in other wording. Ooops.. talk about taking credit! Many times. I am sure the premise was made using a wide array of wording and phrasing at different times. I've often said CPS does not avail itself of other state and private services relating to home-care... particularly housing and services to the poor. Under the guise of neglect, their only recouse has been to remove the child and make unreasonable demands on the parent(s) to acheive conformity. Those, like Doug, with a more technical understanding and view of funding use a different approach to acheive the same end. You just haven't noticed, Kane. Come on Douggie. Show us the citations. We have constantly advocated for taking the foster care, poor kids strings off this funding. Appeals to emotion are just another of your gimmicky ploys, Douggie. The point is you and I agreed long ago that the people on the line had a better grasp of what was needed and would work, but YOU encouraged your lying pack of hyenas here in this ng to ignore this. Linepeople following current policy and enmeshed in systemic dysfunction are making grave errors that injure the very children they are mandated to protect. And no, you, as in the pack of you, have done NO SUCH THING. Some of you have advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS, or stripping them of some of their most powerful inhibitors of child abuse...and the Pew commission spotlighted this very nicely in just a few words. I have not advocated for the complete abolishment of CPS. What sort of "powerful inhibitors" are you talking about? What specific actions do you put in that category? Without knowing what you are addressing, I have no way of knowing if I advocated for taking them away or not. And they were simply attempting to bring MY TAX DOLLARS BACK TO MY STATE FOR SERVICES I DEMAND OF THE STATE. I don't think that is the intention of the Pew report. In simply attempting to bring back tax dollars to their state, CPS agency's incarcerated thousands of innocent children in foster care. They did NOT incarcerated. They placed them in out of home care. No jails involved at all, you liar. Ok, Kane... I'll disagree with, Doug. (absent the profanity) The kids weren't incarcerated... they were kid-napped. Children with liberty interests in living peacefully with their families are being forcibly removed from their homes under the color of law and forcibly confined in state custody. More than 74% of them are confined with strangers in various types of structures. Since those precious tax dollars were in the form of Title IV-E foster care funding, the agencies removed children from innocent parents out of greed. Bull****. You are a clearly identified liar in other matters, and this as well. The did so out of ORDERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. BY LAW. You are absolutely and categorically incorrect. These children were removed by state child protective agencies on their own initiative with the motivation to collect federal funding. The federal government did NOT order these agencies to do it. The feds set the criteria for their money. Since that criteria provides an incentive to incarcerate poor children, they are accountable. But that state agencies chose to remove children to get access to that money is appalling. .. The Feds said... you take those children away from their parents.. and we'll give you money. If you can get them adopted.. we'll give you even more money. Why should families trust the expertise of CPS Because they have proven by the numbers posted by you and even the biggest disemmbler here, The Douggie, to have done a terrific job under nearly impossible odds. The Pew Commission has found that the foster care system is "unquestionably broken" and that CPS has done far less than a "terrific" job. Under federally mandated policy guidelines set by LAW, both federal and the required state "sister laws." The state child protection agencies bear responsibility for their malpractice. The Nazi defense, "I was ordered to do it" won't work for personnel of these agencies. The workers within these agencies are accountable for their own actions. You are obfuscating yet again. which now has failed in every state to meet even minimum standards of efficacy and performance. Set by the feds, while dangling money? Sure, dummy. Sure. An unintended consequence of well intended people, I'm sure. With money out there for the asking... CPS set the stage and grabbed the brass ring, which to their delight, was far more lucrative then even they probably expected. CPS broke the origianl intent of foster care system... tried to correct their mistakes a number of times... and in frustration lobbbied for, and got the federal governemnt to legalize morally unfair adoption practices.... with subsidies and monetary reward. Why have experts started asking the same questions I do and have for some time now, that you and your Bud, Douggie the Magnificent have ignored? Many of those experts have been asking the same questions for many years. Child and family advocates have said for years that the foster care system was broken and that the federal funding through Title IV-E should be used for purposes other than foster care. I'm afraid the questions you allude to... were not of the same nature others asked. I note that you finally admit the foster care system is broken. Many months I ago, I suggested when change came.. you'd be right there taking credit for your participation and contributions. You see things quite clearly in black and white... which are often the extremes. The larger grey areas often prove the most difficult to visulize, understand and resolve. To deny the affiliation beween the feds and cps "obfuscates" (your favorite big word) the true issues. And you certainly haven't seen ME disagree. My bitch is with the constant hammering at CPS WITHOUT BLAMING THE FEDS FOR THE DEBACLE. How is it possible to disassociate CPS from federal mandates and subsidy. Except for the few wise citizen groups, and occassioally the courts, the only ones actively called for changes.. and the only ones who got attention.... was CPS. Those same changes, by the way, is what more and more people are seeing as wrong and unjust. It's unfortuate that the few wise people among us were not listened to... even as the courts were being stripped of their powers. If you steal a man's wallet (taxes), then force him to dance to get it back, he's likely to dance to your tune. If he dances to the tune in violation of his ethics and moral convictions, just to get at the money, he alone must face the music. He is responsible. It is simply inhumane to remove children from their parents, inflicting tremendous emotional damage, for a buck. The feds are responsible to providing the temptation, but the state workers are solely responsible for yeilding to the temptation by irreparably injuring the very children they were mandated to protect. For the damage they have done to children, the agencies are fully responsible. NOW the feds are going to move the funding to thugs of their own choosing and it will be worse, not better...you know damn well that there is going to be NO CAPPED FUNDING the states can use at their discretion. Thugs are thugs, whoever pays them. In this thread, we have been talking about holding the current thugs accountable for the damage they have already done to children. You argue that we should worry about different thugs paid by the feds without considering the damage already done by the state thugs. I can't really discount that reapportionment, and capped funds, will have some affect on CPS ... I'm still skepical about the extent.. as well as the consequences. Doug is certainly more optimistic than I. Hmmm.... guess I should resort to a few profanities and insults, huh? bobb There will be a MORE tightly controlled federal dispensation of money and favors and power. Public education is going through this just as child protection is. It's the same pattern, and it's cronyism, and the states HAVE NOT, as you lie, simply paid off local vendors....they can't FIND ENOUGH OF THEM TO TREAT THE DAMAGE DONE TO CHILDREN BY THEIR OWN PARENTS NOW, YOU ****ING LIAR. The state child protection agencies currently pay thousands of local vendors -- therapists, consultants, advisors, GAL's, group home operators, caseworkers, parenting teachers, counselors, lawyers, assorted species of jacklegs, partridges and the pear trees in which they roost. Have a wonderful day, sir! You are an adult, so you can be relatively confident that you can spend it at home with those you love. Doug |
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Plant Prattlings....was....Would you trust CPS which has FAILED EVERY STATE
On Sat, 22 May 2004 07:01:19 -0400, "Doug" wrote:
Kane writes: How can anyone miss that they have for years been under threats by the feds all over the US? Some have even been taken over by the courts and I'M NOT HEARING OF GREAT FEATS OF IMPROVEMENT. Hi, Kane! Yes, increasingly, federal courts are taking over foster care systems throughout the country because of the agency's consistent refusal to consider reforming on their own. Unable to "reform" on their own and do what they do not have the funding to do. The results have been mixed. R R R R....to say the least. The Feds set up a carrot and concealed the stick, then waved it around, now they are applying it....and the fix was in from the start for CPS to fail. What sort of fix? To fail. I've stated this repeatedly. Do you ever stop playing games? What was the carrot? Money to get children out of the cycle of custody and return. Are you stupid? What is the stick? Concealed. That the feds would NOT stick to the law as it read. There was, for instance, NOTHING in the law that said the states had to recruit relatives...only that they make the effort...and it did NOT say how much effort. the 90' marked one of he bleakest periods in the drug scene, where everyone and their brother was setting up meth labs in their kitchen or basement. Drug use increased hugely in those years. And children's parents were drug users and makers. Perhaps one of the problems during that period was that state workers may have actually assumed that "everybody and their brother" was manufactoring methamphetamine. No such thing. They had two things telling them the truth about it. The LE stats, and the sorry experience of having childen handed to them from the arms of hazmat clothed technicians that just had to do a decontamination on the child's body. http://www.ag.state.az.us/DEC/HowEndangesChildren.html Such a generalization and contempt prior to investigation Yer lying yet again. They had first hand experience. Who would other than them? I personally watched the wave of this drug and it's effects hit and kill with my first witnessed death from meth in 1968. Man in a tent in Southern Oregon where I had gone to do a survey. He was bleeding from every body opening. Young, had everything going for him. Very sad. Died before the EMT's arrived. And that was the beginning. Five times I've had homes very near my own residences (and my neighborhoods tended to be upscale) declared uninhabitable because of meth manufacturing. That is way to many for coincidence. This is a major problem. could have made it very tough for the children of everyone and their brother. Not as tough as meth and its manufacture has been. http://www.mapinc.org/ccnews/v04/n627/a04.html?201 I don't recommend the following, except usually to those tempted to use...so go with caution: http://www.crystalrecovery.com/index.html Yah know, Doug, sometimes I'm kinda rough on you with the name calling, but I haven't thought up one to match the moral degeneracy this recent claim of yours amounts to. This scourge is and has been sweeping this country for decades, to the point it's such old news the media hardly mentions it anymore in any significant way. Haven't read any real good and helpful stories on it for some time now. .. but this, as low rated as this rag probably is, circulation wise, well have to do for now. http://www.stateline.org/stateline/?...Info&id=323046 So I guess I'm stuck, despite you, a claimed social worker that has to know better, with calling you the usual. You are a ****ing scum sucking liar you freekin' sick ****. If anything has taken children from families more than meth I'd like to know what it could be. And the problem is growing. To minimize this problem proves to me just how dispicable you are....just to take another undeserved swipe at CPS and child protective workers. How sick can you get? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ve+for+%2Bmeth And considering this isn't just a meth problem as children present to CPS and "meth" isn't the issue really to be considered...just one more symptom of parental abuse and neglect...... http://www.futureofchildren.org/usr_doc/vol6no2ART8.pdf The Department has conducted 24 pilot tests of an outcomes-based monitoring system and has published proposed regulations that draw substantially on the lessons from those pilots. We currently are reviewing public comments on the regulations and intend to publish a final rule before the end of this year. As a result of federal financial assistance, technical support, and clear accountability that includes phased-in penalties, states are now collecting and able to report much more timely and accurate data on foster care and adoptions. Reporting on child abuse and neglect also has improved considerably, as a result of both financial and technical assistance. " What do you think "consultation with the field" means? They had coffee together once in 14 years? What you cut and pasted is a discussion about how the feds sought out state input in designing the criteria for the audits that were conducted the past three years. It took that long from theory to practice. The process, as your cut and paste explains, was to go to the states for input and then print proposed quidelines in the Federal Register. States further commented on the published criteria, and the feds then went back to draft revisions, which were again published in the Federal Register. Yep. And anyone that has ever worked with the feds little minions knows how they complicate and reinterpret things. The fix was in years ago. The states were set up to fail and the mechanism where carefully wired into place by the methods you just commented on. Let folks read a few things like the following and you and they will see why CPS is "failing," and in many instances only by a hair's breadth on a few of the 7 criteria...ignoring of course all the OTHER measures, like the their holding the line as abuse and they horrendousness of the KINDS of abuse when up...even bringing some of it down over the years. Responding to abuse reports and keeping children safe is among the components in one of the 7 groupings of criteria. Yep. And can you tell us how badly they missed the mark? YOU ARE A ****ING LOW LIFE SCUM SUCKING LIAR...GOT THAT? LOL! No beef? You want me to cite all the lying **** filled destroy CPS posts on this very newsgroup and then ALL OF YOURS showing you pat these ****s on the head and congratulate them for posting biased media reports, and ignoring all the good CPS does do? Go **** yourself. A biophysical impossibility, I am told. Not in your case. You manage yourself while doing a few others here. Linepeople following current policy and enmeshed in systemic dysfunction are making grave errors that injure the very children they are mandated to protect. Propaganda. There is no world in which mistakes are not made, and people injured. This is the infamous strawman. How could anyone disagree with you. Line people following ANY policy are ENMESHED in systematic dysfunction because NO system is perfect or even much better than stumbling along. Especially CPS with the crippling they have always worked under. A dysfunctional system is in far worse shape than simply being imperfect. Hair splitting. Use of the word "dysfunction" without a measure being set allows for near misses to be judged as equal to total misses. Child abuse and neglect are ugly nasty horrible things to witness...and the public wants it fixed without having to witness it. They want it done fast and they want it done cheap and they don't want to to see it or pay for it. I disagree. The public is paying billions for it. Inflation makes the term "billions" no longer the impactful emotion laden claim it used to be. The size of the problem is immense. Citizens have a right to expect their employees to do their jobs in a way that does not injure children. At the very least, they should, "at first, do no harm." Yep. They sure do. And yes, they sure shouldn't. Your claims of both being failures are highly exaggerated as you 3 time and 8 time as many comparision against an unsupervised demographic. Nonsense as usual. And I want and expect my police departments to "at first, do no harm" but I recognize they will never be perfect, nor will they even approach it...and it is becoming increasingly obvious that even when they do exactly as they are ordered to do, and they are NOT breaking the law, they still get the same kind of criticism....they are damned if they do......(they are labled overzealous) ...and damned if the don't (they are accused of sitting around eating donuts and drinking coffee on the job). Same crap comes down about CPS workers. And it's no more valid. A few cases are held up and the pretense is that this is typical of CPS workers. You and yours are liars Doug, and would NEVER allow anyone to hold you to the same standards. Tell us you never make mistakes. Go ahead. I want to see just how big a lie you can tell. Lela Costin, Leroy Pelton, Duncan Lindsey, Phillip Schwartz, Howard Karger, Richard Gelles, Susan Orr, and others. Each of these authors have written reform packages that call for police to assume the role of investigating child abuse and neglect. Dr. Pelton, in an exhaustive work in 1989; Dr. Lindsey in an equally lengthy book in 1993; Dr. Costin, et al in 1996, Susan Orr in 1998, Richard Gelles in 2000 and Dr. Swartz in 2001." If all that is left, smartass, is CPS doing social work with volunary clients, they will be doing nothing as all the parents will be in jail. Do you really think the levels of abuse are going to diminish? There are other tasks left to do after police do investigation...like social work. Not in your world, Douggie. Remember. You voted for (in coversations with me right here) for there to be NO intervention unless there was a criminal investigation with all the limits inherent in that. And I haven't seen you get after the little suck butts here for claiming that cops have no business stopping someone and asking what is going on. When you get your act together with this crew of sickos you've cultivated you might be a bit more credible. So clean up your act, scumsucker. What sort of "powerful inhibitors" are you talking about? What specific actions do you put in that category? Without knowing what you are addressing, I have no way of knowing if I advocated for taking them away or not. The threat of loss of their children would qualify. Don't you think? And that threat goes away, under what you advocate and I just posted, UNTIL THE CHILD IS DEAD OR SO INJURED THEY MIGHT AS WELL BE. The trouble is that when the state threatens parents with removal of their children, it becomes necessary to use the "hammer" and remove children when parents don't jump through hoops in the right way. That does NOT answer my claim or charge. That is yet another excuse to propagandize. YOU are still advocating a way of performing that will doom many children to more severe injury and death. For instance, one of the first things to go away will be involuntary testing of babies and mothers for drugs and mandatory reporting to CPS...well, in your world, the Police. NO warrant...not call. And the police can't ask without probable cause. Where are they going to get it? Schools will not be able to report suspicion of abuse and neglect until a child is dire straights and near death..not just by condition, but by emergency room standards...with maybe minutes to spare. Children will die. This is precisely what leads to an overcrowded and abusive foster care system. Crock o' **** only your hangers on here believe. Children should not be removed from their homes -- or threatened to be removed -- to force parents to accept a government "service" (sanction). Nope. You are right. Just leave the child there until they service is no longer needed. Dead children lose their parents the hard way. Severyly injured get to live the rest of their lives with the attendant disability. And visit their parents in jail, maybe. Children with liberty interests in living peacefully with their families are being forcibly removed from their homes under the color of law and forcibly confined in state custody. Under color of law MEANS BY LEGAL MEANS...you little evil twit. Precisely. Yep, you and I agree then: you are an evil little twit. "forcibly confined" R R R R .... They are FORCIBLY CONFINED then with their parents. Anyone that is their caregiver is FORCIBLY confining them, even the day care centers and public schools. What an evil ******* you are. Incorrect. Children generally want to live in their homes with their parents and their siblings. Have you ever asked them? Not only have I I have so stated more than once in this ng. You are using the commonly known, to workers and mental health professionals, phenomena of the victim's attachment to the tormentor, coupled with the inevitable fear of loss of the familiar, and the fact that each of us gets' on one of each parent...and we do not want to lose them, to pretend that CPS is doing a child disservice to remove them from possibly dangerous circumstances for an investigation. You are proposing the child can know and assess the relative safety of their circumstances. You are sick. More than 74% of them are confined with strangers in various types of structures. Gee, what happend to "incarcerated?" IN some states as many as 50% are with relatives, some of whom themselves kill or injure them. Stop the ****ing lies by misleading and misdirection. The average is 24% nationwide. What states have 50%? Callifornia. The Plant posted it here in an article and I've varified it in two sources. Basically you are the same kind of mindless twit that bobb is. You just are better educated hence better able to conceal your sickness and bigotry. bobb is not a "mindless twit." To the contrary, he is a thoughtful member of this group who makes it a habit to write posts that encourage us to think about the issues. He does disagree with you on occassion, which is why you call him names. I call him names because he is a fear mongering bigot, a mysoginist, and misanthrope, an anti mental health twit, and a science hating fool. And he lies about CPS, as well as perpetuating his ignorance. That he means well is not a question...and I consider well meaning fools among the most dangerous. Give me a true knowledgable evil person everytime to combat, as they can be stopped. The idiot and ignorant are very very dangerous because they do not KNOW how evil they are being. You cultivate his biases and fears like the truly dispicable thug you are. He's your dupe, just as The Plant. Nonetheless, you have a great day, sir! Nonetheless, enjoy your pretentious posturing. Doug Kane |
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