| Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine

Oh, and one more thing which hasn't been pointed out yet. Inhalers require
mouth contact, which means that by using another child's inhaler, the child
is possibly being exposed to various infectious diseases. While in this case
the two children had almost certainly had mouth-to-mouth contact, this is
another reason to restrict use of an inhaler to the person for which it was
intended. I can't imagine passing an inhaler around is sanitary.

Bottom line-if your child needs medication, MAKE SURE they have the
medication. Period.

On 13 Oct 2003 04:37:48 -0700, (Kane)
wrote:



It sure isn't if the nurse or others call for an EMT wagon, and
administer any first aid available to choking victims. I'm not going
to list any here for asthma, but nurses know them, or better.

The only cure for an asthma attack is pretty much an inhaler, or an
injection of something like ephinephrine. The chances, in a sever
case, of a child making it until the EMT wagon came with the shot is
pretty slim. The chances of the school nurse having the drug is even
slimmer.

And bottled gaseous O2 if pretty common in such settings.
In a sever asthma attack it is generally to late for this alternative.
AGain, the school probably doesnt have it, and will the EMT arrive in
time?

Barb

LaVonne wrote
Not only are schools not required to provide
prescription medication, schools cannot legally
administer prescription medication without a note
from a physician and the child's medication
in original packaging.

Greg wrote (Sarcasm about bureaucratic mindset)
(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."

Donna Metler wrote
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better
believe that I'm going to make sure she has an inhaler
on her person, that there's one stored at the school
in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level
where she's with one teacher most of the time, that
there's one in the teacher's desk, labeled for her.

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.

No it's not.

What makes you think it's LEGAL to keep prescription
medication in the teachers desk in a school?

I can give my prescription medication to anyone to hold for me. It is
illegal from them to use it for ANY PURPOSE other than to adminster to
me. It is illegal for me to let them with my knowledge and permission.

But it's not illegal for the teacher to hold. She has the legal status
as my representative, in loco parentis, do act on my behalf pertaining
to my child.

Teach better lock the drawer though or place it in her locked little
pin money box.... all teacher had that capacity when I was a kid and I
assume still get a lockable desk or container these days.


LaVonne wrote
I would do the same thing!

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.

What an overripe pile of bull****.

When you get really happy about "letter of the law"
I just love to see you hoisted by your own petard.

It is not illegal to assign parental rights over to another for
specific instances such as child safety concerns regarding
medications. Teachers administer them as a matter of course unless
they are of a kind that could have adverse reactions, then the duty
devolves to the school nurse.

It just goes to show that the pitfall traps of
zero-tolerance can even trip up an ""expert"".

Just goes to show you been burning horse**** in the hookah far to much
these days. Time to gather up the can harvest and purchase some "good
****" don't yah think?

Donna Metler wrote
I'm not going to assume there is a child in the
next desk who uses the same prescription-nor would
I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

Not even when somebody's choking?

No, note even when somebody is in dire distress.

Do you know HOW to do an emergency tracheotomy
or CPR or is it much too "icky"?

Yes, and yes, and no. I've even done mouth to mouth on valuable
livestock and pets. I notice my wife avoided kissing me for a few days
afterward, well, when it wasn't her cat...then she kissed right after
I brought the nasty little critter back from certain death.

Both mothers, both kids, nurse and probably the teacher
all knew that their medications were identical.

Aha, now how would they "know" that? The knew the prescriptions were
the same, they did not know if they had been recently changed, they
did not know if the inhalers were intact during the many days the
children had them, and unfilled with anything else. They did not know
the children had not let them out of their possession.

Tragedies do happen when things are taken on trust instead of proof.
Go ask a nurse how she deals with drug delivery, and what happens to
drugs that get out of her personal direct control for a time....

People, including kid people, do strange things with drugs and
dispensers. I want to know where that girls inhaler was and why.

The facts should always trump "what if"'s.

And you threw in speculation unsupported by the known facts. Inhalers
floating around with kids are not secure devices.

Thinking should always trump blind obedience to
one-size-fits-all Orwellian application of law.
(Reckless disregard for "the spirit of the law")

Then you should try it.


LaVonne said
How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions
are different. I wonder how Greg would have
responded if the child had died from a reaction
to an inhaler that was not prescribed for the child.

That would involve thinking and fact checking.
Try thinking OUTSIDE the bureaucracy, LaVonne.

You cannot do an analysis on an inhaler content in seconds or even
minutes. Anything could have been in that inhaler. Kids play with such
things, even drop them into unlikely places and in a panic pull them
out and dry them off for fear of catching hell for wasting valuable
meds. Kids have to be careful taugt by their docs and their nurses how
to treat prescription and you can bet they tell them NEVER give our
drugs to another person under any circumstances.

In regard to the "letter of the law" I again ask you
to read up on Judge Roland Friesler. His history
is all about impeccable legal logic.

He wouldn't for a moment argue the point here that someone should have
taken an inhaler from one person and given it to another, not unless
the druggist just handed it over and declared it was an exact
duplicate in compound and doseage to the other persons...and even then
you'd probably have to chance being charged.

I know you have real problem with rules there, towelboy, but rules are
our little friends.

They keep that damn honking monster pickup from smashing our little
Honda Civic at the cross streets...even if there is an emergency...by
the way, that's MY monster truck that just smashed your little beater
into tin foil.

Tah. Kane

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:18:34 +0200, Barbara Bomberger
wrote:

snipping all the bushwah from Greegor the Whore............


On 13 Oct 2003 04:37:48 -0700, (Kane)
wrote:



It sure isn't if the nurse or others call for an EMT wagon, and
administer any first aid available to choking victims. I'm not going
to list any here for asthma, but nurses know them, or better.

The only cure for an asthma attack is pretty much an inhaler, or an
injection of something like ephinephrine. The chances, in a sever
case, of a child making it until the EMT wagon came with the shot is
pretty slim. The chances of the school nurse having the drug is even
slimmer.

My adult step daughter is an asthma victim. When she was young I
certainly did check if they epi sticks available for emergency use.
They do and registered nurses (which I believe all school nurses were
at time) and trained PNs (my mother) could administer.

Allergic reactions can kill in minutes, just like asthma..that's why
epi kits are much more common than you think.

Where did you get the idea a school nurse wouldn't have emergency med
supplies? What would be the point of having a school nurse without
them?


And bottled gaseous O2 if pretty common in such settings.
In a sever asthma attack it is generally to late for this
alternative.
AGain, the school probably doesnt have it, and will the EMT arrive in
time?

Okay, finally wore me down. I'm dialing up my local schools right
now...

Okay, just back...flash, the school nurse told me not to worry about
my child (like I would at 25 years old) that she has both in a quite
fully stocked EM kit and the proper EM proceedure training.

She is a semiretired NP, who as I recall in our state can legally
dispense prescription drugs, and as I recall can even prescribe. I'm
not sure and didn't ask if that included the psychotropics...but
that's an ot aside.

Where do folks get these ideas that professionals just sit around
manicuring their nails.

We had quite a talk. She does almost 100 hours a year of professional
development training. As a district school nurse covering 2
elementary, two middle schools and a hs, she is one busy lady
apparently but she can't hold her license in this state without that
training and her supplies are rotated and upgraded by the local EMT
county unit every quarter.

School nurses are serious health practitioners, not cooing, asprin
dispensing temperature takers. This one I spoke could do a trach and
has the supplies to, and is legally sanctioned to.

Put my mind at rest, how about yours?

Why not call your local school district and ask if you are concerned.
I know funding is a big problem and many schools that have EMT
companies nearby use them and spread school nurses out over a wider
area than in the past.

The nurse I talked to gave me quite an earfull on school district and
state politics vis a vis her job.

Kane



Barb

"Barbara Bomberger" wrote in message
...
On 13 Oct 2003 04:37:48 -0700, (Kane)
wrote:



It sure isn't if the nurse or others call for an EMT wagon, and
administer any first aid available to choking victims. I'm not going
to list any here for asthma, but nurses know them, or better.

The only cure for an asthma attack is pretty much an inhaler, or an
injection of something like ephinephrine. The chances, in a sever
case, of a child making it until the EMT wagon came with the shot is
pretty slim. The chances of the school nurse having the drug is even
slimmer.

And bottled gaseous O2 if pretty common in such settings.
In a sever asthma attack it is generally to late for this alternative.
AGain, the school probably doesnt have it, and will the EMT arrive in
time?

Actually, every school I've taught in has had O2 on hand. If a child in a
class is known to have severe athsma (which, from news reports, this
WASN'T), it will often also be kept in the classrooms. O2 is one of the
things which can abort my severe migraines, and I have been able to get it
when I needed it in the past-which has avoided the worst reactions (my
migraines can lead to seizures), for long enough for my rescue medication to
take effect.


Barb

LaVonne wrote
Not only are schools not required to provide
prescription medication, schools cannot legally
administer prescription medication without a note
from a physician and the child's medication
in original packaging.

Greg wrote (Sarcasm about bureaucratic mindset)
(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."

Donna Metler wrote
If my child has life threatening athsma, you'd better
believe that I'm going to make sure she has an inhaler
on her person, that there's one stored at the school
in the nurse's office, and, if she's in a grade level
where she's with one teacher most of the time, that
there's one in the teacher's desk, labeled for her.

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.

No it's not.

What makes you think it's LEGAL to keep prescription
medication in the teachers desk in a school?

I can give my prescription medication to anyone to hold for me. It is
illegal from them to use it for ANY PURPOSE other than to adminster to
me. It is illegal for me to let them with my knowledge and permission.

But it's not illegal for the teacher to hold. She has the legal status
as my representative, in loco parentis, do act on my behalf pertaining
to my child.

Teach better lock the drawer though or place it in her locked little
pin money box.... all teacher had that capacity when I was a kid and I
assume still get a lockable desk or container these days.


LaVonne wrote
I would do the same thing!

Greg wrote
ILLEGAL.

What an overripe pile of bull****.

When you get really happy about "letter of the law"
I just love to see you hoisted by your own petard.

It is not illegal to assign parental rights over to another for
specific instances such as child safety concerns regarding
medications. Teachers administer them as a matter of course unless
they are of a kind that could have adverse reactions, then the duty
devolves to the school nurse.

It just goes to show that the pitfall traps of
zero-tolerance can even trip up an ""expert"".

Just goes to show you been burning horse**** in the hookah far to much
these days. Time to gather up the can harvest and purchase some "good
****" don't yah think?

Donna Metler wrote
I'm not going to assume there is a child in the
next desk who uses the same prescription-nor would
I expect the teacher to whip out my daughters inhaler
and give it to another child.

Not even when somebody's choking?

No, note even when somebody is in dire distress.

Do you know HOW to do an emergency tracheotomy
or CPR or is it much too "icky"?

Yes, and yes, and no. I've even done mouth to mouth on valuable
livestock and pets. I notice my wife avoided kissing me for a few days
afterward, well, when it wasn't her cat...then she kissed right after
I brought the nasty little critter back from certain death.

Both mothers, both kids, nurse and probably the teacher
all knew that their medications were identical.

Aha, now how would they "know" that? The knew the prescriptions were
the same, they did not know if they had been recently changed, they
did not know if the inhalers were intact during the many days the
children had them, and unfilled with anything else. They did not know
the children had not let them out of their possession.

Tragedies do happen when things are taken on trust instead of proof.
Go ask a nurse how she deals with drug delivery, and what happens to
drugs that get out of her personal direct control for a time....

People, including kid people, do strange things with drugs and
dispensers. I want to know where that girls inhaler was and why.

The facts should always trump "what if"'s.

And you threw in speculation unsupported by the known facts. Inhalers
floating around with kids are not secure devices.

Thinking should always trump blind obedience to
one-size-fits-all Orwellian application of law.
(Reckless disregard for "the spirit of the law")

Then you should try it.


LaVonne said
How ridiculous this is. Inhaler prescriptions
are different. I wonder how Greg would have
responded if the child had died from a reaction
to an inhaler that was not prescribed for the child.

That would involve thinking and fact checking.
Try thinking OUTSIDE the bureaucracy, LaVonne.

You cannot do an analysis on an inhaler content in seconds or even
minutes. Anything could have been in that inhaler. Kids play with such
things, even drop them into unlikely places and in a panic pull them
out and dry them off for fear of catching hell for wasting valuable
meds. Kids have to be careful taugt by their docs and their nurses how
to treat prescription and you can bet they tell them NEVER give our
drugs to another person under any circumstances.

In regard to the "letter of the law" I again ask you
to read up on Judge Roland Friesler. His history
is all about impeccable legal logic.

He wouldn't for a moment argue the point here that someone should have
taken an inhaler from one person and given it to another, not unless
the druggist just handed it over and declared it was an exact
duplicate in compound and doseage to the other persons...and even then
you'd probably have to chance being charged.

I know you have real problem with rules there, towelboy, but rules are
our little friends.

They keep that damn honking monster pickup from smashing our little
Honda Civic at the cross streets...even if there is an emergency...by
the way, that's MY monster truck that just smashed your little beater
into tin foil.

Tah. Kane

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
...
Oh, and one more thing which hasn't been pointed out yet. Inhalers require
mouth contact, which means that by using another child's inhaler, the
child
is possibly being exposed to various infectious diseases.

What happened to the time when it was common and popular to share a soft
drink bottle or can? Fact is, I saw two boys sharing a soda at the 7-11.

Hmm... I once read that kissing spread disease, too. A jokster added.. he
merely stopped reading, instead.

I'm also told many people use their lips and tongues on other various parts
of the body, too. So much for disease, huh?

bobb



While in this case
the two children had almost certainly had mouth-to-mouth contact, this is
another reason to restrict use of an inhaler to the person for which it
was
intended. I can't imagine passing an inhaler around is sanitary.

Bottom line-if your child needs medication, MAKE SURE they have the
medication. Period.

On 13 Oct 2003, Kane wrote:

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:18:34 +0200, Barbara Bomberger
wrote:

snipping all the bushwah from Greegor the Whore............

A perfect example of how a "never-spanked" boy turned out.
I wonder how LaVonne feel if her children started calling
other women "smelly ****" and "Whore"?

Doan

"bobb" wrote in message
k.net...

"Donna Metler" wrote in message
...
Oh, and one more thing which hasn't been pointed out yet. Inhalers
require
mouth contact, which means that by using another child's inhaler, the
child
is possibly being exposed to various infectious diseases.

What happened to the time when it was common and popular to share a soft
drink bottle or can? Fact is, I saw two boys sharing a soda at the 7-11.

Hmm... I once read that kissing spread disease, too. A jokster added..
he
merely stopped reading, instead.

I'm also told many people use their lips and tongues on other various
parts
of the body, too. So much for disease, huh?

Nevertheless, schools cannot officially sanction or encourage actions which
are unsanitary-which is why we have to buy new mouthpieces for school
instruments every year, get each group of kids new recorders, etc. All it
takes is one school with an outbreak of a serious disease (like Hepatitis)
to make this happen nationwide-and believe me, it has.

bobb



While in this case
the two children had almost certainly had mouth-to-mouth contact, this
is
another reason to restrict use of an inhaler to the person for which it
was
intended. I can't imagine passing an inhaler around is sanitary.

Bottom line-if your child needs medication, MAKE SURE they have the
medication. Period.

In article ,
Kane wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:18:34 +0200, Barbara Bomberger
wrote:

snipping all the bushwah from Greegor the Whore............


On 13 Oct 2003 04:37:48 -0700, (Kane)
wrote:



It sure isn't if the nurse or others call for an EMT wagon, and
administer any first aid available to choking victims. I'm not going
to list any here for asthma, but nurses know them, or better.

The only cure for an asthma attack is pretty much an inhaler, or an
injection of something like ephinephrine. The chances, in a sever
case, of a child making it until the EMT wagon came with the shot is
pretty slim. The chances of the school nurse having the drug is even
slimmer.

My adult step daughter is an asthma victim. When she was young I
certainly did check if they epi sticks available for emergency use.
They do and registered nurses (which I believe all school nurses were
at time) and trained PNs (my mother) could administer.

Allergic reactions can kill in minutes, just like asthma..that's why
epi kits are much more common than you think.

Where did you get the idea a school nurse wouldn't have emergency med
supplies? What would be the point of having a school nurse without
them?

I've never known of a school that kept epi on hand for general use.
Children who were known to need it could have their own epi kept at
school for their use, of course (on their person, in the classroom,
or in the nurse's office according to need and policy).

--Robyn

In article , Robyn Kozierok says...

In article ,
Kane wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:18:34 +0200, Barbara Bomberger
wrote:

snipping all the bushwah from Greegor the Whore............


On 13 Oct 2003 04:37:48 -0700, (Kane)
wrote:



It sure isn't if the nurse or others call for an EMT wagon, and
administer any first aid available to choking victims. I'm not going
to list any here for asthma, but nurses know them, or better.

The only cure for an asthma attack is pretty much an inhaler, or an
injection of something like ephinephrine. The chances, in a sever
case, of a child making it until the EMT wagon came with the shot is
pretty slim. The chances of the school nurse having the drug is even
slimmer.

My adult step daughter is an asthma victim. When she was young I
certainly did check if they epi sticks available for emergency use.
They do and registered nurses (which I believe all school nurses were
at time) and trained PNs (my mother) could administer.

Allergic reactions can kill in minutes, just like asthma..that's why
epi kits are much more common than you think.

Where did you get the idea a school nurse wouldn't have emergency med
supplies? What would be the point of having a school nurse without
them?

I've never known of a school that kept epi on hand for general use.
Children who were known to need it could have their own epi kept at
school for their use, of course (on their person, in the classroom,
or in the nurse's office according to need and policy).

--Robyn

Right.

Nurses do not prescribe medicines. So they cannot keep epi 'on hand' for any
random student. They may keep non-prescription benedryl on hand. They also
will call paramedics, who can use certain medicines. They can keep medicines
prescribed by a physician *for an individual student* for that student, with
appropirate written authorization.

These folks who think students can or even should trade pescription medicines on
each others' recognizance, and that nurses keep an in-house ER stock, clearly
haven't come into contact with the medical profession in any cognizant manner.

Banty

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Robyn Kozierok
says...

In article ,
Kane wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:18:34 +0200, Barbara Bomberger
wrote:

snipping all the bushwah from Greegor the Whore............


On 13 Oct 2003 04:37:48 -0700, (Kane)
wrote:



It sure isn't if the nurse or others call for an EMT wagon, and
administer any first aid available to choking victims. I'm not going
to list any here for asthma, but nurses know them, or better.

The only cure for an asthma attack is pretty much an inhaler, or an
injection of something like ephinephrine. The chances, in a sever
case, of a child making it until the EMT wagon came with the shot is
pretty slim. The chances of the school nurse having the drug is even
slimmer.

My adult step daughter is an asthma victim. When she was young I
certainly did check if they epi sticks available for emergency use.
They do and registered nurses (which I believe all school nurses were
at time) and trained PNs (my mother) could administer.

Allergic reactions can kill in minutes, just like asthma..that's why
epi kits are much more common than you think.

Where did you get the idea a school nurse wouldn't have emergency med
supplies? What would be the point of having a school nurse without
them?

I've never known of a school that kept epi on hand for general use.
Children who were known to need it could have their own epi kept at
school for their use, of course (on their person, in the classroom,
or in the nurse's office according to need and policy).

--Robyn

Right.

Nurses do not prescribe medicines. So they cannot keep epi 'on hand' for
any
random student. They may keep non-prescription benedryl on hand. They
also
will call paramedics, who can use certain medicines. They can keep
medicines
prescribed by a physician *for an individual student* for that student,
with
appropirate written authorization.

These folks who think students can or even should trade pescription
medicines on
each others' recognizance, and that nurses keep an in-house ER stock,
clearly
haven't come into contact with the medical profession in any cognizant
manner.
My school does keep O2 on hand, though-precisely because we have several
students with very severe athsma, and if the rescue meds don't work O2 won't
hurt and can help them breathe until the paramedics arrive.

Banty