MANA midwives: 'Hateful' Todd vs. 'Riffraff' Jan (editor of Midwifery Today)

MANA MIDWIVES...

"HATEFUL" TODD VS. "RIFFRAFF" JAN (MIDWIFERY TODAY EDITOR)

WHICH is more HATEFUL?

Jan promoting closing the birth canal up to 30% (on behalf of midwives
everywhere)...

....or Todd "unprofessionally" *protesting* midwives promoting closing of the
birth canal?

Note: It's not just Midwife Jan Tritten who is promoting closing of the
birth canal up to 30%

Yale CNMwifery Prof. Helen Varney does it too - plus - CNMwifery Prof. Helen
promotes KEEPING the birth canal closed when the baby gets stuck!

See Midwifery Today abomination - CHIROPRACTIC censorship too...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2985


NOTE: JAN RESPONDED to my post Midwifery Today abomination...

She called me "hateful."

But she also said something nice....

See below.

I'll cc this to the various MANA midwives (and NZ Midwife Jean Sutton) who
received my post "Midwifery Today abomination"...

Attention MANA: It is time for midwives to speak out - MANA leading the
way - BEFORE Jan's upcoming March 2005 Midwifery Today conference in
Eugene...

It would be good if MANA and ACNM could speak out together and announce at
the March 2005 conference a campaign to wipe out the bizarre obstetric
practice of closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth canals closed
when babies get stuck...


Further comment below...


"Jenrose" wrote in message
news:1102228354.pkcORy2d+3PD5wqhq44A/A@teranews...

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
"Jenrose" wrote in message
Oh, and btw, I have no live bacteria left in my system,

Nonsense.


Oh, so you think the fact that I took 2000 mg of zithromax over the course
of days had no effect? I didn't even have bad *breath* that week--that
stuff
is potent (and specific to B. Pertussis).

so vitamin C killing pertusssis bacteria won't do me a bit of good, just
like further antibiotic treatment would be pointless. It is toxins, not
the bacteria per se that are causing me difficulty now, and those just
don't leave fast.

What toxins? Name names.

Ericka already did, and a dandy job of it. See misc.kids.pregnancy, which
is where I posted my thread in the first place. Or here, I"ll make it easy
for you. Here's what she posted:

"See website below:

"The second or toxemic stage of pertussis follows relatively nonspecific
symptoms of the colonization stage. It begins gradually with prolonged
and paroxysmal coughing that often ends in a characteristic inspiratory
gasp (whoop). During the second stage, B. pertussis can rarely be
recovered, and antimicrobial agents have no effect on the progress of
the disease. This stage is mediated by a variety of soluble toxins."

so vitamin C killing pertusssis bacteria won't do me a bit of good, just
like further antibiotic treatment would be pointless. It is toxins, not
the bacteria per se that are causing me difficulty now, and those just
don't leave fast.


What toxins? Name names.

Ummmm...pertussis toxin, tracheal cytotoxin, invasive adenylate
cyclase, among others. Perhaps you should do some reading up on
pertussis?

http://textbookofbacteriology.net/pertussis.html

Best wishes,
Ericka
"

(aside) Todd, it is *seriously* impolite to crosspost on someone else's
thread. You're letting the riffraff in.


Jennifer,

Sorry for the crossposting but...

EVERY newsgroup has "riffraff"...

Why - some people even consider ME "riffraff" - LOL!

Remember when "Midwifery Today Mother" Jan Tritten cancelled a full-length
article on the birth-canal-closing semisitting position and in her very next
issue PROMOTED semisitting/closing the birth canal?

See Midwifery Today abomination - CHIROPRACTIC censorship too...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2985

Jan PROFESSIONALLY promoted harming babies - and now you complain that it
was "unprofessional" the way I complained about Jan's "professional"
editorial behavior - LOL!


Sheesh - what RIFFRAFF - totally "impolite" to babies - and you DEFEND Jan
the "professional" saying she is on my side!

OBs are closing birth canals up to 30% and KEEPING birth canals closed up to
30% - and Jan is silent - actually promoted semisitting - and **I** am
unprofessional? LOL!

Did you learn that logic at doula school?

Or did you apply it because Jan might ask you to speak at her Midwifery
Today conferences now and then?

It doesn't really matter WHY you made no comment about Jan (still) promoting
closing the birth canal up to 30% as a "Midwifery Trick of the Trade"...

BTW, part of the reason I started a new thread in regard to your Whooping
Cough posts (you sounded bad!) - was because there are some MDs over on
sci.med and misc.health.alternative - who knows - one might have had a good
tip...

You said you were taking Vit C (4 grams - loose bowels too, I think you
said)...

Still, some pretty incredible claims are being made for the stuff - maybe
it's all quackery - but I suspect not - I think Linus Pauling was onto
something...

See again: Megadose Vit C: 'Whooping cough responds quickly'???
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3007

I sincerely hope your Whooping cough gets better soon.

I am confident from what you said that you will be offering your baby the
"extra" up to 30%.

Most women don't even know it is being denied though.

Women should not have to ask OBs or midwives for the "extra" up to 30%.

Closing the birth canal up to 30% should not be promoted by midwives -
prominent or not...

The "extra" up to 30% should just be given automatically.

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


PS "HATEFUL" TODD - "RIFFRAFF" JAN (MIDWIFERY TODAY EDITOR)

Jan is SORT of on my side - privately...

Jan recently wrote of my "very accurate message" (in response to my post
Midwifery Today abomination, URL above)...

BEGIN Jan's message to "hateful" Todd

"It is too bad you are such a hateful person. You might be able to get your,
very accurate message, out to people if you were not such hateful
person...LOVE jan"

END Jan's message to "hateful" Todd

There's that logic again!

Jan cancels a full-length article on birth-canal-closing/semisitting and
PROMOTES closing birth canals up to 30%/semisitting...

....and **I** am "hateful" for protesting (and Jan makes NO offer to publicly
retract her grisly "trick")!!!

At least Jan mentioned my "very accurate message"...

Yep - my message *is* very accurate - OBs and CNMwives (and some homebirth
midwives) are closing birth canals up to 30% and KEEPING birth canals closed
when babies get stuck.

It is a FELONY to knowingly close birth canals up to 30% and keep birth
canals closed when babies get stuck.

OBs and CNMwives simply can't stop their obvious mass felony - it is HATEFUL
to them to admit their mistake - because they could go to prison.

In civil litigation, they could lose MONEY - millions per damaged baby
following all their semisitting and dorsal births...

PARALYZED BABIES...and midwives...

As I noted in Midwifery Today abomination (URL above), one woman told me her
midwife closed her birth canal up to 30% (used semisitting) then told her
that her baby got paralyzed at birth because her pelvis was too small.

What if this woman's midwife was encouraged to use semisitting when Jan
called it a "Midwifery Trick of the Trade"?

This woman with the paralyzed child just sent me something written by Ina
May Gaskin that sounds like Jan's grisly "trick":

[GASKIN] "Turning the woman to hands and knees position is often enough to
dislodge the shoulder. The process of turning over dislodges the stuck
shoulder. This technique should also work in reverse. Try moving from
hands and knees to semi-sit. If neither of these positions work, try to
have her squat."

I replied to the woman's questions:

The quote from Gaskin reads very much like Jan Tritten's "Midwifery Trick of
the Trade"...

There is NO question in my mind that having the woman shift moves the pelvic
bones - but you do NOT - put a woman on her sacrum with the baby's head in
the pelvic outlet - so in answer to your question - semisitting does indeed
close the outlet on the baby - IF the baby's head is in the outlet at the
time.

Hopefully by now you are getting comfortable with the simple biomechanics:
It's as simple as: So, if I squeeze the nutcracker the nut will crack...

Gaskin mentioned the biomechanics in her "All-Fours" article in the medical
literature.

END Gastaldo's response to the woman whose midwife closed her birth
canal up to 30% then told her she had a paralyzed baby because her
pelvis was too small...

Again, Jan's logic:

Jan cancels a full-length article on birth-canal-closing/semisitting and
PROMOTES closing birth canals up to 30%/semisitting...

....and **I** am "hateful" for protesting (and Jan makes NO offer to publicly
retract her grisly "trick")!!!

Attention MANA: It is time for midwives to speak out - MANA leading the
way - BEFORE Jan's upcoming March 2005 Midwifery Today conference in
Eugene...

It would be good if MANA and ACNM could speak out together and announce at
the March 2005 conference a campaign to wipe out (finally) the bizarre
obstetric practice of closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth
canals closed when babies get stuck...

Women should not have to ask for this "extra" room.

It should be offered automatically.

Thanks,

"Hateful" Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


PS I repost this on it's own thread - in part because the original thread is
not showing up in misc.kids.pregnancy on my newsreader.

Also, I wanted to point out the fallacy of Chiro Censor Bob Dubin's
suggestion that the only thing DCs can to stop the closing of birth canals
by OBs is to refer pregnant women to midwives....

CNMwives are PROMOTING closing of the birth canal up to 30% - and some
prominent homebirth midwives are going along with the grisly gag.

See again: Midwifery Today abomination - CHIROPRACTIC censorship too...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2985

Besides Censor Bob is forgetting: OBs attend FAR more births - usually
closing birth canals up to 30% and KEEPING birth canals closed when babies
get stuck - applying GRUESOME (sometimes fatal) spinal manipulation - with
birth canals closed..

It's mass spinal manipulation child abuse by DCs - and DCs who so much as
SUSPECT child abuse are to report it immediately. There is MUCH DCs can
do - i.e. - the minimum required by law if they so much as suspect abuse...

Does anyone NOT suspect child abuse is occurring when an OB pulls on a
child's spine with the birth canal senselessly/negligently closed and rips a
couple of spinal nerves off the spinal cord?

Coped to Chiro Censor Bob Dubin, DC ): Censor Bob: Again,
for your possible Schroeder/SLAPP censorship enjoyment - or - hope, hope,
hope, you will stop your censorship and post this - your choice.

When you demonstrate that you have stopped your Schroeder/SLAPP censorship,
I will reconsider subscribing to you currently censored list.

This post will be archived for global access within 24 hours in the Google
usenet archive. Search http://groups.google.com for "Midwives: 'Hateful'
Todd vs. 'Riffraff' Jan (Midwifery Today editor)

What if this woman's midwife was encouraged to use semisitting when Jan
called it a "Midwifery Trick of the Trade"?

This woman with the paralyzed child just sent me something written by Ina
May Gaskin that sounds like Jan's grisly "trick":

[GASKIN] "Turning the woman to hands and knees position is often enough to
dislodge the shoulder. The process of turning over dislodges the stuck
shoulder. This technique should also work in reverse. Try moving from
hands and knees to semi-sit. If neither of these positions work, try to
have her squat."



You're ranting about the GASKIN maneuver?

Todd, when given a choice between the dangers of shoulder dystocia and the
dangers of a semisit (when the position *you like* was obviously not
working), the semisit is the lesser of two evils. Is it ideal? NO. But the
tip is valid. Sometimes when something is less than ideal in a birth (like a
baby's shoulders getting locked behind the pubic bone) we have to do
something less than ideal to fix it... because "ideal" wasn't working. That
tip is talking about taking a mom who was in hands-and-knees position
*already* and got a STUCK BABY....and turning her over to get the baby
unstuck.

And do you know what shoulder dystocia means?

IT MEANS THE HEAD IS ALREADY OUT AND NOT BEING SQUASHED. It is impossible to
"squash" the baby's head with the sacrum when the head is *past* the
sacrum...and the method is being presented as a method to *avoid* pulling
the baby's head and causing all those problems with the spine you rant
about.

Traditional management of shoulder dystocia is BRUTAL. It usually involves
episiotomy, a whole bunch of pulling, getting the mother into the McRobert's
position, sometimes forceps, sometimes vacuum extractor, breaking the baby's
collarbone and/or arm, and sometimes the truly grotesque zavenelli maneuver,
pushing the baby's head back inside (and how good is THAT for the spine?)
and doing a c-section. Ina May is talking about a method that helps the
mother's body "unlock" the baby from the pelvis gently, so the baby can be
delivered without all the brutal and fancy shenanegins. If you're ranting
about that, you've completely lost sight of "relative risks".

So I think Jan was giving you the benefit of the doubt when she called you
"accurate"...

The tip is not about what to do when the head is inside--it's about what to
do when the head is out. So get off your damn high horse already and quit
bashing Jan. There's an article in the pipeline right now that talks about
your issue very clearly... and very clearly opposes "closing the pelvis"
with bad positioning. She isn't refusing or censoring all articles on the
subject, just those which are not written appropriately for the audience.

Which would you rather? A mother deliver the baby's head on hands and knees
and flips over to unlock the shoulder after head is delivered, if it the
rest of the body doesn't follow, so the practitioner doesn't have to
"pull"--or traditional management? Ina May's "grisly trick" as you put it,
persuaded *many* midwives to avoid the semisit for pushing--because it was
not a huge step from "turn the mother over to fix shoulder dystocia" to
"don't have her push on her back" to prevent shoulder dystocia. But
hands-and-knees does not prevent all shoulder dystocia...thus the technique
given for flipping back. The important concept in this is, "If the baby
won't turn easily to restitute and deliver, turn the mother, don't pull on
the baby."

The Gaskin maneuver was a "revolution" (pun intended) in second stage
techniques for midwives... and because she starts with "what they're used
to" and gives them a darned good reason to get away from
semisitting/back-lying in the first place, it has gotten many, many
practitioners to change their practices. Probably more than your rants, to
be quite honest.

That grisly trick you rant about has saved many, many lives and prevented
much damage to babies. It's also stopped many midwives from using the "pull
and tug" techniques first in shoulder dystocia. I'm surprised you're not
advocating it. Because broken arms and clavicles are more common in birth
than dented heads.
Jenrose