how long does it take for your milk to dry up?

NL wrote:


I'm glad you're such a mature person, and able to deal with criticism.

I'm glad you're such a mature person, and able to admit to a mistake and
apologise.


Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

But how do we _know_ that no-one ever said on their deathbed that they
wished they'd spent more time at the office?

Sarah Vaughan wrote:
NL wrote:


I'm glad you're such a mature person, and able to deal with criticism.


I'm glad you're such a mature person, and able to admit to a mistake and
apologise.

Please read my post and tell me what exactly I should apologize for. I
wans't the one using the f-word.

cu
nicole

NL wrote:
Sarah Vaughan wrote:
NL wrote:


I'm glad you're such a mature person, and able to deal with criticism.


I'm glad you're such a mature person, and able to admit to a mistake and
apologise.

Please read my post and tell me what exactly I should apologize for.

For misreading her post and hence claiming she was neglecting the needs
of her child when, in fact, she wasn't doing anything of the sort.

I
wans't the one using the f-word.

I think Betsy owes you an apology as well, for that, and I thought she
was well out of line even given that she'd been provoked. But, at the
same time, I couldn't help feeling some sympathy for her - she's been
dealing with PPD and on top of it she has people accusing her of being
a bad mother, doing it wrong, and neglecting her child (and I know the
first claim wasn't from you, but the thread's been a little heated)
when in fact they just haven't bothered to read her posts properly and
find out what's actually going on. I can understand her losing her
temper.

I don't think that _excuses_ the way she spoke to you, and IMNSHO she
owes you an apology too, as I said. But the post of yours I quoted
bugged me because there was something so... subtly unpleasant about the
way you were trying to score points rather than just say "Sorry, read
your post wrong before, my bad".


Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

But how do we _know_ that no-one ever said on their deathbed that they
wished they'd spent more time at the office?

wrote:
NL wrote:

Sarah Vaughan wrote:

snip

But the post of yours I quoted
bugged me because there was something so... subtly unpleasant about the
way you were trying to score points

I don't know if you realize this, but english is not my native language.
I'm pretty good, but I didn't grow up speaking english, so sometimes I
might use the wrong words to express myself and come across as being
harsher than I actually am, I guess it'd be the same if you were writing
in german. So please don't asume that everyone on usenet is from the US
or the UK, some of us don't have english as their first language.

I don't know where I was "trying to score points" because I'm not
playing a game here. There are no points to be scored. I was explaining
why I feel the way I feel, if that came across as "scoring points" I
guess you're misunderstanding me.

I would like to also point out that I was never an orphan. My biological
parents didn't die, I was adopted. It's part of where I come from, but
nothing I can change, and I don't have regrets about it.

take care
nicole

"NL" wrote in message
I don't know if you realize this, but english is not my native language.
I'm pretty good, but I didn't grow up speaking english, so sometimes I
might use the wrong words to express myself and come across as being
harsher than I actually am, I guess it'd be the same if you were writing
in german. So please don't asume that everyone on usenet is from the US
or the UK, some of us don't have english as their first language.

No excuse for being judgemental and rude and dissing another mother when you
don't have all the facts.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Good God, people, can we please let this thread die?

I know childrearing is a hot issue, but, really, don't we have enough
trolls around here already?

(That circumcision thing is really getting on my nerves.)
--
Cheri Stryker

Mom to DS1 - 6 yrs old
preg w/ DS2 - due Feb 19

Sue wrote:
"NL" wrote in message

I don't know if you realize this, but english is not my native language.
I'm pretty good, but I didn't grow up speaking english, so sometimes I
might use the wrong words to express myself and come across as being
harsher than I actually am, I guess it'd be the same if you were writing
in german. So please don't asume that everyone on usenet is from the US
or the UK, some of us don't have english as their first language.


No excuse for being judgemental and rude and dissing another mother when you
don't have all the facts.

Ok, versuchen wir's auf deutsch. Vielleicht komme ich dabei ja besser
weg als auf englisch.

Ich habe nicht versucht orgenonchick runter zu putzen. Aber ich finde
nunmal das sie keine phantastische Mutter ist. Sie ist sicherlich ganz
ok, aber wenn ich mir durchlese was sie schreibt, dann geht's ihr
verdammt gut, sie geht skifahren, sie macht ihre Turnuebungen, sie hat
jemanden der ihr die Kinder abnimmt, aber alles ist nicht genug.
Sie hat keinen Bock alle 5 minuten nach der kleinen zu schauen weil sie
ja schliesslich auch noch ein Leben hat und weil sie auch wichtig ist.
Klar. Wir haben alle auch ein Leben. Aber sie hat fuer sich entschieden
noch ein Kind zu haben. Das ist ihr neuer job. Und ich finde sie macht
ihn nicht besonders gut. Ein Kind ist kein 20 Stunden die Woche job, ein
Saeugling ist nicht mal ein 40 Stunden die Woche job. Man kann ein Kind
nicht abstellen wenn es einem auf den Geist geht, und wenn sie schon
eine achtjaehrige Tochter hat sollte sie das wirklich wissen.

Trotzdem hat sie sich fuer ein zweites Kind entschieden, und dafuer bei
diesem Kind zu Hause zu bleiben. Also sollte sie sich auch darueber im
klaren gewesen sein was das fuer Konsequenzen beinhaltet. Man hat mit
einem Baby eben kein eigenes Leben. Nicht in den ersten Wochen. Das
kommt mit der Zeit wieder, aber zu erwarten das ein 6 wochen alter
Saeugling 30 minuten still ist waehrend man selbst irgendwelche
gymnastik macht...

MfG
Nicole

NL writes:
: wrote:
: NL wrote:
:
:Sarah Vaughan wrote:

: snip

: But the post of yours I quoted
: bugged me because there was something so... subtly unpleasant about the
: way you were trying to score points

: I don't know if you realize this, but english is not my native language.

Dann, veilleicht sollen sie auf Deutch schreiben! :-) Meine frau ist
Deutcher, und sie spricht besser English als ich!!! (Und auch besser
Deutsch).

: I'm pretty good, but I didn't grow up speaking english, so sometimes I
: might use the wrong words to express myself and come across as being
: harsher than I actually am, I guess it'd be the same if you were writing
: in german. So please don't asume that everyone on usenet is from the US
: or the UK, some of us don't have english as their first language.

I think it was not just that, you write pretty good English. However
you tone came across as pretty critical.

: I don't know where I was "trying to score points" because I'm not
: playing a game here. There are no points to be scored. I was explaining
: why I feel the way I feel, if that came across as "scoring points" I
: guess you're misunderstanding me.

Think of it as local sensitivity training. :-)

: I would like to also point out that I was never an orphan. My biological
: parents didn't die, I was adopted. It's part of where I come from, but
: nothing I can change, and I don't have regrets about it.

: take care
: nicole

Larrty

Anybody want a translation. I could probably use the practice.
I'm not great, but I'm sure I'd be better than babelfish!

Larry

NL writes:
: Sue wrote:
: "NL" wrote in message
:
:I don't know if you realize this, but english is not my native language.
:I'm pretty good, but I didn't grow up speaking english, so sometimes I
:might use the wrong words to express myself and come across as being
:harsher than I actually am, I guess it'd be the same if you were writing
:in german. So please don't asume that everyone on usenet is from the US
:or the UK, some of us don't have english as their first language.
:
:
: No excuse for being judgemental and rude and dissing another mother when you
: don't have all the facts.

: Ok, versuchen wir's auf deutsch. Vielleicht komme ich dabei ja besser
: weg als auf englisch.

: Ich habe nicht versucht orgenonchick runter zu putzen. Aber ich finde
: nunmal das sie keine phantastische Mutter ist. Sie ist sicherlich ganz
: ok, aber wenn ich mir durchlese was sie schreibt, dann geht's ihr
: verdammt gut, sie geht skifahren, sie macht ihre Turnuebungen, sie hat
: jemanden der ihr die Kinder abnimmt, aber alles ist nicht genug.
: Sie hat keinen Bock alle 5 minuten nach der kleinen zu schauen weil sie
: ja schliesslich auch noch ein Leben hat und weil sie auch wichtig ist.
: Klar. Wir haben alle auch ein Leben. Aber sie hat fuer sich entschieden
: noch ein Kind zu haben. Das ist ihr neuer job. Und ich finde sie macht
: ihn nicht besonders gut. Ein Kind ist kein 20 Stunden die Woche job, ein
: Saeugling ist nicht mal ein 40 Stunden die Woche job. Man kann ein Kind
: nicht abstellen wenn es einem auf den Geist geht, und wenn sie schon
: eine achtjaehrige Tochter hat sollte sie das wirklich wissen.

: Trotzdem hat sie sich fuer ein zweites Kind entschieden, und dafuer bei
: diesem Kind zu Hause zu bleiben. Also sollte sie sich auch darueber im
: klaren gewesen sein was das fuer Konsequenzen beinhaltet. Man hat mit
: einem Baby eben kein eigenes Leben. Nicht in den ersten Wochen. Das
: kommt mit der Zeit wieder, aber zu erwarten das ein 6 wochen alter
: Saeugling 30 minuten still ist waehrend man selbst irgendwelche
: gymnastik macht...

: MfG
: Nicole

Well we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I agree that once you
have children, that it's your job to raise them. But, this idea that a mom
cannot do anything else but take care of the child is something that I am
never going to agree with. Mom can have a little bit of a life besides baby.
Taking care of yourself is also a responsibility to the child and exercising
and being happy is also important. And you don't seem to understand that
this mom is taking care of her child. Just because she does it different
than you doesn't mean she is a bad mother. And I am done. Case closed.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)