Refuse CPS Services?

On Jun 8, 10:39 pm, "0:-]" wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:03:04 -0700, wrote:
My wife & I just had a new child. We formerly had a child in 2001 in
Arizona in which our parental rights were terminated. This was in
2003.

Now, in early 2007, we've had another child, in Texas, and an
investigation was opened based on this. They have been in our home
twice (I was not aware you could refuse to let them in). They have met
my wife and child and me. They are wanting to start "services," but we
have not signed anything admitting that we need this. I did sign a
form earlier that read:

Family Task:
"[Me] agrees that he will continue to seek our help from his pastor
other church members. He agrees that he will contact someone when he
is overwhelmed or needing help in caring for [his child].

Beginning and Ending Dates (and/or Frequency)
5-27-07--6-25-07

Method of Evaluation:
CPS will monitor/follow-up.

At the bottom:
If the above plan is not followed CPS will legally intervene including
possible removal of the child.

Nothing was signed today regarding the "services," although my wife
had said she wouldn't mind having them.

Is it too late to get out of the "services" aspect so that the 30-day
thing I signed can just expire on the 25th? Also, my lawyer from
before said that any new children could be taken away within 2 years
(which would've been Oct 2005) but only in the same state, but that by
it now having been 4½ years and we're in another state, that one thing
itself isn't enough for them to initiate proceedings.

Do I have the right to refuse services at this point?

Probably.

As you haven't signed. The question is, what will their next step be,
and how can you best prepare for that.

But you need the services of a skilled consultant, possibly a lawyer.

I'm curious. How did they come to find out you were in the state and
had a child?

Normally it takes an allegation of some kind for CPS to show up at a
family's door.

Kane is a liar and a system suck.
Agencies figure if they got you on one that you're
an easy mark for them to take your next child.

They will try to use the old TPR's .
Heck, they might just plain tell LIES in order to make a case.

When you go into court, if your lawyer and you don't ask
for the Clear and Convincing standard they will use the
lame Preponderance standard for the burden of proof.
Santosky v. Kramer ask your lawyer to raise the bar.

You are entitled to Clear and Convincing, because
a LIBERTY INTEREST is at stake.
The Bill of Rights portion of the US Constitution
entitles you to this protection.
State laws specify the lower standard which
is what the entire dependancy court normally uses
because the whole thing is rigged to the advantage
of the state and the agencies.
If you don't speak up for this higher standard
early on in the process and object to hearsay
as evidence/testimony dependancy court is a meatgrinder.

Even parents who had bad abuse
and TPR must be able to reform, redeem themselves
and be able to try again some years later.

Get the higher standard
Object to hearsay galore
Cross examine the hell out of the caseworkers.
Subpoena 15 witnesses and demand 4 days for this big hearing.
Ask if any report was called in, who did it, etc.
In cases like yours it's common that nobody called in any report,
just that a supervisor told the caseworker to make a case.

The state has all of the information on births
from the hospitals and birth certificate filings of course.

Hospital social workers help out CPS a lot.

The "service" item you described was for you
to get help as needed. If you had no need,
how can they say you didn't comply?

The fact you let them into yourt home would
give them a huge base to create half truths or lies.

Did you know that the agencies have NO STANDARD
for such home inspections?

They actually don't want to have uniform published
standards for home inspections so that they can
make it up as they go along. Did you ever see how
a drill sergeant in a boot camp does the
"white glove test" on a barracks?
Basically nobody normal would pass the white glove test.
With NO STANDARDS for a home inspection the caseworkers
could come up with any criticism of your home.
When you let them in you allowed them to do
what the 4th amendment would call an unreasonable search.
These are even more rediculous where the court
orders a ""home inspection"" (search warrant) after
somebody asks over and over IN COURT what the
standards are for a home inspection.

In our case, 6 years along, they finally admitted
there are no standards for a home inspection.
The agency actually said they don't even want
any such standards spelled out for fear of
setting a precident they don't want to live with.

No, when a caseworker shows up at your door
you DO NOT have to let them in without a search warrant
signed by a judge. That is the primary defense.
They take advantage of people's naive good will
when people let them into the home without a warrant.

Beware of the assertion they have one without seeing
the actual paper first. Some cops have even been
duped by them on this, and in one case when the cops
found out they had been lied to they escorted the
caseworker out quickly, apologized and loudly
cussed out the caseworker in the driveway.

Usually the caseworker can not get a warrant based
on some anonymous idiots report, and it ends there.

Beware though that if some harasser keeps calling
in reports on you that CPS has actually made cases
from nothing more than a ""number of reports"".
It's a rotten system.

Take a parenting class but refuse them entry.
Don't agree to squat.

"Stipulation" is basically like a GUILTY PLEA.
Your own "public pretender" will likely try to
con you into stipulation.

Demand a long talk weeks before the hearing
in order to discuss the truth/con behind what
I call the "stipulation scam" attorneys pull on
their own clients. Discuss the true meaning and
implications of a stipulation. Make him tell
you if he ever revoked a stipulation. If you
stipulate the state basically OWNS your butt.
Any agreement should be revokeable.

I can attest that they bargained in bad faith.
Promises of easy services plan were lies, effort to defraud to get
stipulation.

Lots of services can be corrupted to basically
be stacked against you from the start.

Ask your lawyer if he intends to con you into stipulation
or provide you with a vigorous representation.

I am not a lawyer.

Good luck facing the meatgrinder.

Actual guilt or abuse of course can change outcome dramatically.