alternatives to 100% breastfeeding

Cheryl S. wrote:

Round-the-clock nursing during growth
spurts is admittedly pretty much routine, but they generally last for
only a couple days at a time.

This is nice to know. No one ever says this. Heck, the books I've read
don't even mention this. (maybe I've got really crumby books)

Serenity wrote:

Just check your skin condition can't be treated with breastfeeding friendly
drugs, most can.

The only one I know of is the skin cream I'm currently using. I can't
have skin cream there if the baby is going to be sucking there. Life
sucks, no pun intended. The only oral drugs are definitely bad for babies.

In ,
Vicky Bilaniuk wrote:

*I want to be able to give breastmilk at first because I really do
*believe that it will probably help build up the child's immune system,
*and possibly other things too. I don't know how long would be useful,
*though. Daye did 6 weeks. Is that a good period of time? I realize
*that people all have differing opinions on this, though. I also realize
*that the very political organization called the WHO advocates 2 years.
*I don't believe anything the WHO says, though (I find them to be very
*untrustworthy).

The AAP says one year. A friend of mine, who is a pediatric intensivist
(specialist in pediatric patients in the ICU), tells me he believes that
but for the existence of 3rd world countries and problems with water
supplies and so on, the WHO recommendation would also be one year. For me,
one year is plenty (and I am wishing my 17 month old would WEAN already
but she's still nursing...sigh). But I figure, no breastfeeding at all is
the worst. One day is better. Two days is better than that. Three days is
better than that. And so forth. You know? so you can just go as long as
you feel able, IMO.

*It keeps the baby away from the skin problem. That said, though, I
*don't even know if pumping would be safe. I guess I'll have to wait and

You mean, because of trauma to the skin? Well, obviously I don't know
what the skin condition is, and I certainly don't expect you to say. But
if you're worried about mechanical trauma from a pump, there really isn't
much to the skin beyond the areola in my experience with an Avent Isis and
a Medela PIS. Also, for what it's worth, while it might be a bit tricky at
first, I see no reason why you couldn't use a cotton receiving blanket or
t-shirt over the breast, between the skin of the breast and the baby's
face/hands. Only the areola and nipple need to actually be exposed. I've
done this before.

*My other issue is time. I'm simply not heroic enough to breastfeed for
*45 minutes out of every hour. How can one stay awake for that
*long???!!! Do people go to bed? When someone says "every 1 to 2 hours"
*I immediately wonder where sleeping time enters in. I would die of

Well, not everyone has a kid like that. My MIL says her youngest nursed 5
minutes every 3 hours (after the first few weeks). FWIW. Also, a neighbor
of mine who formula fed after having breastfed told me it was more time
consuming than she'd thought it would be. Even using premixed formula and
bottles, she said she had to get out of bed, get the baby (one minute),
get the bottle from the fridge and warm it (two to three minutes), feed
the baby (ten to fifteen minutes), rinse the bottle and nipple (one
minute), change a diaper (two to five minutes) put the baby back to bed
(twenty to thirty minutes), only to have to do it all again two to three
hours later. Whereas with my first, I could at least just roll over and
shove a boob in his mouth and doze, once he grew out of the crying all
night phase.

*exhaustion if I couldn't go to sleep. Everyone would. I cannot pull
*all-nighters. I realize that some people deal with this problem by

You do what you have to do. I never thought I could do it either, but my
son cried all night for the first couple of weeks, and what was I going to
do - return him? I had no choice. I paced the halls with him. My husband
took turns, but there was no sleeping through that noise. I'm sure there
are formula fed babies who keep their parents up all night as well.

*There is one final thing that I will add, and only to help make it more
*obvious to people why I refuse to let the baby come into contact with
*the affected areas. It's contagious. It only seems to affect people
*with weaker than normal immune systems, though (so DH has no problems
*with it and has no qualms about touching me, and the "weaker than normal
*immune system" thing definitely describes me perfectly). I imagine that
*a newborn would be at greater risk than, say, my DH, though. I will not
*allow my baby to get this, and I don't care what other people think (I'm
*thinking particularly of those who *know* about the problem and who
*still expect me to breastfeed).

Well, have you discussed it with your pediatrician? What does he/she
think? How contagious is it? Can it spread via fomites? Is there any
possibility your milk will have protective antibodies against it?

Good luck!

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

Vicky Bilaniuk wrote:

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Second, I'm a little confused as to your goal.
It sounds like you want to feed *some* breastmilk? What,
specifically, do you want to accomplish? Do you just want


I don't know! I'm so confused! People keep pulling me in different
directions, but no one ever seems to really care about what *I* want.

Ahhh, then I think that's the root of the issue ;-)
When you know what you want to do, then it will be easier
to figure out *how* to accomplish it ;-)


I want to be able to give breastmilk at first because I really do
believe that it will probably help build up the child's immune system,
and possibly other things too. I don't know how long would be useful,
though. Daye did 6 weeks. Is that a good period of time?

Hmmm...If your goal is to give the baby's immune system
a good head start, then my recommendation would be to
exclusively breastfeed in the beginning. Not only will
your baby get the antibodies and such from your milk, but
delaying the introduction of formula will help as well.
You will also preserve your options best this way (e.g.,
if you change your mind, you will be able to continue
breastfeeding). Don't worry about pumping or all that
stuff right away, which will help because it can be
really difficult to pump in the beginning. Just give
yourself the luxury of worrying about just one thing
for the first couple of weeks. (And if you hate it, or
it exacerbates your skin condition, or whatever, then
you just switch to bottle feeding.)
Then, within about four weeks, you should have
your supply established and you should be feeling a bit
more like life is settling down, and you'll still be
within the window that the baby will very likely accept
a bottle. Now is the time to start pumping and see how
that works for you. If you decide you like breastfeeding
and it's not aggravating your skin condition, great, just
keep doing it. If you try pumping and that works for you,
great, use whatever balance of breastfeeding and bottle
feeding EBM works for you. If none of that works, you
can switch over to supplementing with formula or exclusive
use of formula, whichever seems to work.
I think something like this will preserve the most
options for you so that you can decide what you want to do
based on how things are going. If you start out exclusively
pumping, you may have real trouble establishing your supply
(or not), which could eliminate your option to provide EBM
even for a short period of time. If you start out supplementing
right away, you also might compromise your supply. If you
just go with breastfeeding for the first few weeks, though,
all your options will remain open and you can decide what
you think will work best for you and your baby at 3-4 weeks.
Does that make any sense?

Anyway, I guess I don't understand how pumping
and feeding EBM in a bottle helps you out? Pumping just

It keeps the baby away from the skin problem. That said, though, I
don't even know if pumping would be safe. I guess I'll have to wait and
see. I'm on a pregnancy-safe drug at the moment that seems to at least
be keeping the problem with the breasts under control (having no effect
elsewhere, though, and unfortunately the problem elsewhere is getting
worse), but it's not *gone*, so I'm just going to have to play the wait
and see game. I don't want the baby to come into contact with the
affected areas (I have my reasons).

Since I have utterly no idea about this situation,
I can't offer any advice. If it's not good for the baby
to come in contact with the skin condition, then you
just have to do whatever you have to do at the time.

My other issue is time. I'm simply not heroic enough to breastfeed for
45 minutes out of every hour. How can one stay awake for that
long???!!! Do people go to bed? When someone says "every 1 to 2 hours"
I immediately wonder where sleeping time enters in. I would die of
exhaustion if I couldn't go to sleep. Everyone would. I cannot pull
all-nighters. I realize that some people deal with this problem by
co-sleeping, but even if I did that, I know I would stay awake - that's
just *me*. This is the type of stuff that turns me off of 100%
breastfeeding (but not off of breastfeeding completely, mind you - I
think I failed to make that distinction before - sorry). Wouldn't
supplementing with formula make everyone's life a little easier during
those periods where the baby wants to eat constantly?

Honestly, while I know that happens to some people,
it doesn't happen to everyone. I've never had that happen
to me. My babes have all nursed quickly. I've almost never
had a feeding last for more than ten minutes! And that's
with nursing three babies for, hmmm, a total of about 40
months so far. Also, while my babes started out nursing
about every 2-3 hours (generally with one longer stretch
of 4ish hours sometime during the day/night), it wasn't
long before they generally did somewhat longer stretches
at night. In the early months, our usual routine was
a bunch of feedings in the evening, put the baby to
bed around 9pm or so, feed the baby again before I
went to bed, baby wakes at about 2am and 5am for middle-
of-the-night feedings, then up at about 7am for the day.
That's not an *easy* schedule, but it's very doable, and
it's not too long before one of those feedings gets dropped.
We had a couple of growth spurts with more nursing, but
those only lasted a couple of days, so they weren't much
more than a blip on the radar. All in all, I suspect that
I, personally, spent less time feeding my babies than
even formula feeders do. Obviously, not everyone has
that same experience, but I think it's more common than
you might realize, just because people like me tend not
to post asking for help because things are going just
fine ;-) So, *if* it is safe for you to breastfeed, I
wouldn't go in assuming that it will be hellish for you.
It might be, but if it is, you can react if and when that
happens. You might, however, luck out ;-)

Anyway, I'm not making any firm decisions right now. I just need more
info to help me later, although I think I'll need to at least decide
what pump to get. If I want a PIS, for e.g., I will have to either
order it or go hunting around in Toronto, since I've never seen anything
other than the Isis pumps in the stores in my city.

Before you do that, I would talk to the experts and
find out precisely what you're dealing with. If you can't
safely pump, I wouldn't go out and spend a lot of money on
a pump! If you want to do some breastfeeding at least, be
sure to push the experts on the safety issue, because there
certainly are people who will just say not to breastfeed
when they really don't know whether it's safe or not (because
it's easier for *them*). Make 'em work for their fee--
they owe you the best information available on the real
risks involved, and should be able to provide you with
actual study results, if any are available.

There is one final thing that I will add, and only to help make it more
obvious to people why I refuse to let the baby come into contact with
the affected areas. It's contagious. It only seems to affect people
with weaker than normal immune systems, though (so DH has no problems
with it and has no qualms about touching me, and the "weaker than normal
immune system" thing definitely describes me perfectly). I imagine that
a newborn would be at greater risk than, say, my DH, though. I will not
allow my baby to get this, and I don't care what other people think (I'm
thinking particularly of those who *know* about the problem and who
still expect me to breastfeed).

That part, you just have to make your own judgement
call on, and everyone else will have to cope. I think you
need to get to the specialists and find out what the real
issues are here. Obviously, the safety issue has to come
first. If there is a risk to the baby, then you have your
answer and you need to stop fussing over it. If it is
safe to breastfeed, then you can make a plan to do whatever
you think will preserve the most options for you. Until
you have more information, though, I think you'll just be
spinning your wheels.

Good luck working things out,
Ericka

In ,
Vicky Bilaniuk wrote:

*Serenity wrote:
*
* Just check your skin condition can't be treated with breastfeeding friendly
* drugs, most can.
*
*The only one I know of is the skin cream I'm currently using. I can't
*have skin cream there if the baby is going to be sucking there. Life

I'm still not 100% convinced that won't work. Obviously it depends on
where the lesions are and how bad cream-baby contact would be. But if the
lesions aren't on the areola, it may not be an issue. Of course, it's
going to depend on your anatomy as well.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

"Vicky Bilaniuk" wrote

My other issue is time. I'm simply not heroic enough to
breastfeed for
45 minutes out of every hour. How can one stay awake for that
long???!!! Do people go to bed? When someone says "every 1 to
2 hours" I immediately wonder where sleeping time enters in. I
would die of exhaustion if I couldn't go to sleep.

Well, not to be the bearer of bad news, but some babies do take a
long time to eat, whether from breast or bottle. If you decide to
pump and bottle-feed EBM, don't be surprised if it does take 45
minutes per session, what with giving baby the bottle and then
pumping, storing, washing pump paraphernalia etc.

As far as sleeping, there's a reason why we say "sleep when the
baby sleeps" : ) You will be exhausted for the first few weeks, I
won't lie to you, but you won't die.


If I want a PIS, for e.g., I will have to either order it or go
hunting around in Toronto, since I've never seen anything other
than the Isis pumps in the stores in my city.

Can I ask what city you live in? I live near Toronto and might be
able to give you some suggestions as to where to find a PIS.


Christina
mom to DS, 29 months old tomorrow

"Vicky Bilaniuk" wrote in message
.. .
ModernMiko wrote:

"Plissken" wrote in message
news:kqZbc.23494$oR5.22717@pd7tw3no...

"ModernMiko" wrote in message
. ..

| I hope I don't get jumped on for this since it's out of the norm but

I'll

| tell you what I did with DS. I was going through a rough time with
some
post
| partum depression and DS was in the hospital for a week after he was

born

(I
| was sent home after 2 day). What worked and worked very well for me
was
| pumping and then feeding him that milk with a bottle. It allowed my
husband
| to get up and feed him some times so I could get some rest and it

allowed

my
| dad to feed him while I was at school. All the while he got the
benefits
of
| breastmilk. We also made sure that he had plenty of cuddling and skin
| contact. I pumped for 18 months altogether. First six months, he was
fed
| exclusively the EBM, and little by little the EBM was cut out from

months

| 15-18. I used a Medela Pump In Style. As a grad research asst, I was

lucky

| to have my own office (with a lock) so I pumped a couple of times a
day
when
| I was at school and had an insulated pack with a few cold packs that

kept

| the milk fresh until I got home. It worked very well for me. I'll

probably

| try breastfeeding with this baby but its nice to know that I have what
I
| think is a perfectly reasonable alternative as a back up. Pumping that
much
| that long took effort sometimes but I'm happy I did it. I wanted to
give
him
| BM if I could. My SIL tried to make me feel bad about not being
"pure"
| breastfeeder but she tends to be holier-than-thou on a lot of things.
|

Wow! Good for you for pumping for so long Jenn! I am truly impressed. I

had

to pump for DD for 4 weeks before she learned to latch on and I know
it's
not an easy thing to do especially in those early months.

Nadene



Thanks Nadene. Once I got a system in place, it wasn't too bad although
I
was ready to give it up by the time I did.


Thank you for sharing your story. I need to hear more about what other
people have done.

You're very welcome. I just wanted to let people know that long-term
exclusive pumping can be done if needed.

--
Jenn
DS 06/26/98
1 tiny angel 11/03
EDD Early December 2004
--
Leader of the Cult of Worshippers of BiPolar Long-Haired Sexy Anime Guys
with Swords

Vicky Bilaniuk wrote:

My other issue is time. I'm simply not heroic enough to breastfeed for
45 minutes out of every hour. How can one stay awake for that
long???!!! Do people go to bed? When someone says "every 1 to 2 hours"
I immediately wonder where sleeping time enters in. I would die of
exhaustion if I couldn't go to sleep. Everyone would.

I know how it is to be a very light sleeper. I have had many rules about
my sleep. I cannot get to sleep for at least a half hour. I cannot sleep
for less than 90 minutes. If I wake up 2hrs before my intended wakeup
time I may as well stay up. Etc... DH has heard every rule a thousand
times because it has been so hard adjusting to having him sleep with me,
because his rules are simple: do anything, he'll keep sleeping until
he's done.

But I've found that it may be hard but your sleep habits *can* change.
During college for example I found that I actually *could* sleep in
other positions than laid out in bed. (I slept leaning on my desk many
times.) Being with DH and fighting various illnesses I found that I
could actually sleep for only a half hour and feel somewhat refreshed...
and I could indeed sleep through him tromping into bed once I got used
to it.

I cannot pull
all-nighters. I realize that some people deal with this problem by
co-sleeping, but even if I did that, I know I would stay awake - that's
just *me*. This is the type of stuff that turns me off of 100%

Well it strikes me that you're underestimating the power of formula to
get baby to sleep through the night. As a matter of fact I've heard that
formula feeding is even more bothersome at night than breastfeeding
because you have to get up and prepare the formula first and then go
feed baby. So it's actually more disruptive. The baby isn't guaranteed
to sleep for more than a couple of hours at a time until (s)he is at
least 3 months old, anyway. It varies per child. So get used to it -
it's having a baby that disrupts your sleep schedule, not your method of
feeding!

"Serenity" serenity@nospamserenitynyespam off.fslife.co.uk wrote in
message ...
Vicky,
You must of course make the decision that's right for you.
I found the early weeks of breastfeeding very hard, but was so glad I'd
persisted later on.

Just check your skin condition can't be treated with breastfeeding
friendly
drugs, most can.

I have to echo this post ... I found bf difficult for, maybe 3 days and then
it was plain sailing. I got more sleep b/c I would just lift DD into bed
with me and we'd both fall asleep. DD only weaned just over a month ago
when my milk supply dwindled as a result of this pg. In the end, she could
unbutton my nightie and help herself at night and hardly wake me at all ...
I'd just notice b/c she never managed to do the buttons up again lol!

I have a skin condition (acne rosacea) that I need to use a cream for that
is not wonderfully compatible with bf (no alternatives to the cream), but
was able to use it after feeds so long as I waited an hour. It was / is on
my face mind you, and I only had to use the cream twice a day, but the issue
was the active ingredient is known to get into bm. I have also found that
acupressure has helped me (which absolutely blew my socks off as normally I
need strong antibiotics plus the cream to clear it up completely). I've
also found (shock of shocks) that breastmilk actually reduced the number of
blisters that I would get and help to clear up some of the redness. It has
flared up again with this pg (stress related) and I'm just coping with the
bouts of blisters on my face, but the acupressure keeps the affected area
fairly small.
I'm sure you have heaps of info on your condition already (as I had before I
got pg the 1st time) but I do hope that your Dr or midwife (or pharmacist)
may be able to give you some alternatives / ways of coping. (It was
actually a pharmacist that worked out the way I could continue to bf and use
the cream).

I hope you are able to work out a happy medium that suits you. Don't be
frightened of the breastfeeding horror stories (much like labour horror
stories) and maybe just give it a try as you might be like me and find it
really easy.
Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
EDD 19th August 2004

Vicky Bilaniuk wrote:

Personal reasons, as well as a skin
condition that has been haunting me for a long time (was going to see
specialists about it and how to deal with it during BFing - will have to
go on nasty drugs after baby and breastfeeding are all done), are the
driving factors, here.

Have you checked out the medication at this site:

http://neonatal.ama.ttuhsc.edu/cgi-b...s&access=guest

--
Brigitte aa #2145
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/i/isabellazora/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau