Does "no presents" really mean that?

I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents, but
a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?

Kat

"D&K Condron" wrote in message
...
I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents,
but
a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a
gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?



It means no presents, but some people just can't believe that people mean
that. We just attended a big big 50th wedding anniversary party. The
honorees had specified "no presents". I overheard one complain to the other
as someone left a gift on a table for them that now they knew which of their
friends couldn't read. They really meant it. Any other event I've been to
where the invitation had specified "no presents" also meant it. Maybe Miss
Manners has a suggestion on how to gift someone even if they said that on an
invitation, but I haven't read that particular column.

-Aula


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Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude. I would also presume that making disparaging
remarks about guests who could not contain their joy about their
dear friends' occasion without bringing them a token would also
be considered rude.

However, it you really want to get out of getting presents, I've found
throwing a "summer pool party" or having a few friends over for a
sleep over, without mentioning the words "birthday", "graduation",
"anniversary", or "wedding" often will do the trick.

"just me" wrote in message
m...

"D&K Condron" wrote in message
...
I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents,
but
a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a
gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to
be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?



It means no presents, but some people just can't believe that people mean
that. We just attended a big big 50th wedding anniversary party. The
honorees had specified "no presents". I overheard one complain to the
other
as someone left a gift on a table for them that now they knew which of
their
friends couldn't read. They really meant it. Any other event I've been
to
where the invitation had specified "no presents" also meant it. Maybe
Miss
Manners has a suggestion on how to gift someone even if they said that on
an
invitation, but I haven't read that particular column.

-Aula


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Cathy Kearns wrote:
Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude.

Really? Seems to me that whatever "should" be expected, presents ARE
expected. It's certainly NOT going to work for those persons who want
to avoid presents to just not mention anything and assume that people
won't bring gifts. I'm curious what you think the polite way would be
to handle this situation.

I'm assuming that it's already been decided that the child should not
receive gifts from everyone. There are very good reasons for such a
decision. The "just let people bring gifts and be polite about it"
approach may work for adults who are celebrating a wedding anniversary,
but it does NOT work for young children who learn very questionable
values when their special days are all marked with blatant consumerism,
materialism, and piles of flashy toys -- half of which they will then
forget about the very next day.

I can only say that I would *never* feel offended in any way to receive
an invitation that specified "no presents".

However, it you really want to get out of getting presents, I've found
throwing a "summer pool party" or having a few friends over for a
sleep over, without mentioning the words "birthday", "graduation",
"anniversary", or "wedding" often will do the trick.

Then it's not really a birthday party, is it? It's just any old normal
playdate.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

Chris Smith writes, regarding how one can politely (a
la Miss Manners) request no presents at a party:
I'm curious what you think the polite way would be to handle this
situation.

I'd be tempted to write a small essay myself, but I tend to be wierd.

Dear Shmoo,

I would be very pleased if you and your mugwump, parent of choice
would attend my birthday party. It will be held on date at some
place. We'll be touring the Antarctic ice sheet, so be sure to dress
warmly. Afterwards we'll be having hot chocolate and crumpets.

Since I just want all my friends to relax, play, and have a good time,
please don't worry about bringing a present. I have enough trouble
keeping the dust bunnies in my room under control without more stuff.
I know Miss Manners says this is a rude thing to say, since it implies
that a present would otherwise be expected, but really, how many
birthday parties have we been to where bringing a present hasn't been
the normal thing to do? I have no idea what world she was living in.

I look forward to seeing you at some place on date. Please let my
heffalump, parent of choice know if you can't make it.

Your friend, Shmoo.

Brian.

In article , Chris says...

Cathy Kearns wrote:
Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude.

Really? Seems to me that whatever "should" be expected, presents ARE
expected. It's certainly NOT going to work for those persons who want
to avoid presents to just not mention anything and assume that people
won't bring gifts. I'm curious what you think the polite way would be
to handle this situation.

The problem is that a lot of manners have broken down as far as how much they're
understood or followed. Officially, one does not have any obigation whatsoever
to bring a present to a birthday party, and the party giver should have no
expectation whatsoever that any present arrive with the guests. If any presents
should arrive, therefore the party giver is surprised and honored and tickled
that someone would go through such an effort, and to discourage that kind of
good effort and intention in any way would be rude and work against what is good
in people in general.

Officially.

Of course, IRL most b-day party givers *do* expect presents (or at least make
provision for their reception), and party goers feel obligated to bring presents
as some kind of payment for the party, or the idea that it was always that way,
like wedding showers. And, even if they *knew* better, and weren't moved to
give a gift, they know full well that this misunderstanding is so ubiquitous
that they feel they'd *better* bring a gift else be the only ones who didn't.



I'm assuming that it's already been decided that the child should not
receive gifts from everyone. There are very good reasons for such a
decision. The "just let people bring gifts and be polite about it"
approach may work for adults who are celebrating a wedding anniversary,
but it does NOT work for young children who learn very questionable
values when their special days are all marked with blatant consumerism,
materialism, and piles of flashy toys -- half of which they will then
forget about the very next day.

I feel your pain. Once I got around it in on way by saying on the invite that
my son likes books, and got presents that are more worthwhile or at least more
stackable :-)
But I've since learned that *that* is rude, given the official scenario - sort
of like saying "let's go to the movies I like Chinese food", putting it on my
companion to buy me some dinner.

This sort of thing, and some of the (when my son was younger) silliness about
who is invited and who isn't, and how "all the kids" are supposed to be invited,
etc., etc., led me to establish a family birthday tradition of doing a birthday
*trip* to somewhere my son wanted to go, since his birthday usually lands in a
long weekend for our school district.


I can only say that I would *never* feel offended in any way to receive
an invitation that specified "no presents".

However, it you really want to get out of getting presents, I've found
throwing a "summer pool party" or having a few friends over for a
sleep over, without mentioning the words "birthday", "graduation",
"anniversary", or "wedding" often will do the trick.

Then it's not really a birthday party, is it? It's just any old normal
playdate.

... that only a few intimates need know is a birthday celebration. This does
work fairly well. Also, one can hold really small birthday celebrations
including a movie or some other outing, and hold the Stuff Extravaganza down to
an acceptable level that way.

Banty

In article , Chris says...
Cathy Kearns wrote:
Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude.

Really? Seems to me that whatever "should" be expected, presents ARE
expected. It's certainly NOT going to work for those persons who want
to avoid presents to just not mention anything and assume that people
won't bring gifts. I'm curious what you think the polite way would be
to handle this situation.

There are a number of things I've done.

1 - My kids know not to expect an annual birthday party. On the years
that we don't throw one, we still have a family birthday dinner. They
are allowed to invite a friend or two -- but by inviting their friends
to dinner on their birthday rather than a birthday party, their friends
don't feel obligated to bring a present. In fact, it has been my
experience that gifts under those circumstances are rare. Sometimes
parents have called to clarify, and I emphasize that it is NOT a
birthday party, just a birthday dinner, and that while my children might
get some gifts from family members, they are NOT expecting their dinner
guests to bring anything. Rather, their friend's presence is the only
"gift" they are expecting.

2 - Sometimes, we give the kids the gift of a birthday outing (movies,
skating, bowling, swimming, whatever) to which they are allowed to
invite friends. However, again, since we don't call it a "birthday
party" it seems to get around the gift expectation. The invitations
are less formal -- nothing is mailed out. Depending on how old the kids
have been, either they or I make phone calls to the parents or the kids,
and the verbal invitation is worded fairly carefully. "For my birthday,
my mom is letting me take some friends skating on Saturday; would you
like to come with us?" We carefully avoid the word "party". Again,
sometimes a few friends have turned up with gifts, but we are careful to
avoid making a Big Deal of opening them, and to reassure the ones who
DON'T bring anything that we are delighted they are there and we were
not expecting anything.

3 - I have, on occassion, invited people over without mentioning that it
was someone's birthday, and hauled out a birthday cake at the end of a
meal. Some people get offended: "If I'd known, I'd have brought a
gift!" We point out that that is exactly WHY they didn't know in
advance. It seems to work out most of the time, but does seem to annoy
some people.

4 - While I've never done it, I've seen some invitations that ask for
something specific, but not costly. For example, an invitation for a
going away party might ask us each to bring a collage or a letter or
something for a scrapbook that will be a joint gift; on one occassion,
I actually got two sheets of paper that had been specifically set up for
my child's name and address and picture; I don't remember what the
second sheet was for -- maybe just a collage or something. Sometimes,
some people still bring other gifts, but by explaining that we will be
collectively making something that will be particularly meaningful, it
seems to get around the "obligatory" gift expectation.

I hate how Big and Expensive and Obligatory kids' birthday parties have
become -- both to throw and to attend. I'd love to find a way to cut
that back, but not at the expense of tossing out generally accepted
manners -- and that means NOT saying "no gifts" on the invitations.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

x-no-archive:yes "Cathy Kearns" wrote:

Miss Manners would point out that presents should never be expected,
and telling guests that normally they are expected, but not this time
by writing "no presents" on an invitation, no matter how well
intentioned, is rude. I would also presume that making disparaging
remarks about guests who could not contain their joy about their
dear friends' occasion without bringing them a token would also
be considered rude.

However, it you really want to get out of getting presents, I've found
throwing a "summer pool party" or having a few friends over for a
sleep over, without mentioning the words "birthday", "graduation",
"anniversary", or "wedding" often will do the trick.

I have been thinking about this and my initial thought was that the
party giver should suggest that the gifts be brought unwrapped and
given to the local hospital. But that still gets into the expectation
that there will be presents brought.

Then I thought - well maybe the gifts could be labeled as to age or
sex of the child they were for and there could be a gift exchange
instead of the birthday child getting all of them. Kind of like a
gift exchange that is done in some offices. I suspect there might be
problems in the execution of this idea, as I haven't worked out the
details.

I agree with Banty that manners are not so common now (I think it is
incredibly rude to bring wedding gifts TO a wedding as it results in
all kinds of chaos no matter how well it is handled).

So just as one must put reply cards in wedding invitations because
otherwise (and even so) people will not tell you if they are coming or
not, one must also specify about presents on an invitation. And that
is absolutely against etiquette to do.

So in the first instance, instead of 'no gifts', one would say
something to the effect of 'Birthday child will not be receiving
gifts. Any gifts will be donated to the oncology ward of Children's
Hospital' or something of that sort. It certainly is rude, but if you
are going to be rude you might as well be definite.

Party-excursions and combo parties are also a good idea. My dd#2 gave
a combo party for her dh's graduation from law school and her ds's
bday. It was a pool party and BBQ, and the kids had pizza and cake,
and I don't think a lot of them knew that it was a bday party,
especially as it wasn't really on his birthday, but was on the nearest
Saturday.




"just me" wrote in message
om...

"D&K Condron" wrote in message
...
I recently went to a child's birthday party that requested no presents,
but
a dish of something yummy to share instead.

Well, out of 8 moms invited, I was the *only* one who did not bring a
gift.
Did I miss something? I admit that I am new at the mommy thing, but to
be
the only one who did as instructed? I am very confused.

What do the rest of you think "no presents" means? What would you have
done?



It means no presents, but some people just can't believe that people mean
that. We just attended a big big 50th wedding anniversary party. The
honorees had specified "no presents". I overheard one complain to the
other
as someone left a gift on a table for them that now they knew which of
their
friends couldn't read. They really meant it. Any other event I've been
to
where the invitation had specified "no presents" also meant it. Maybe
Miss
Manners has a suggestion on how to gift someone even if they said that on
an
invitation, but I haven't read that particular column.

-Aula


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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grandma Rosalie

Rosalie B. wrote in :
[snip]
I agree with Banty that manners are not so common now (I think it is
incredibly rude to bring wedding gifts TO a wedding as it results in
all kinds of chaos no matter how well it is handled).

So just as one must put reply cards in wedding invitations because
otherwise (and even so) people will not tell you if they are coming or
not, one must also specify about presents on an invitation. And that
is absolutely against etiquette to do.
[snip]

I don't think it is that there are *no* manners, just that they
are *different* manners.

So just like UK wedding invites don't have lots of different envelopes
(the invitees names are on the invitation itself), most UK weddings
have arrangements for receiving presents. Postage in the UK is
sufficiently expensive that if you don't live near the bride and groom
it would be too expensive to mail it.

When you read older books, the manners then are quite different to now.
At times manners have been very formal, with strict details on such
things as when and how long to visit people (afternoons only, leave
after 15 minutes), other times they are informal and apparently
left to the individual to decide.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

x-no-archive:yes Penny Gaines wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote in :
[snip]
I agree with Banty that manners are not so common now (I think it is
incredibly rude to bring wedding gifts TO a wedding as it results in
all kinds of chaos no matter how well it is handled).

So just as one must put reply cards in wedding invitations because
otherwise (and even so) people will not tell you if they are coming or
not, one must also specify about presents on an invitation. And that
is absolutely against etiquette to do.
[snip]

I don't think it is that there are *no* manners, just that they
are *different* manners.

So just like UK wedding invites don't have lots of different envelopes
(the invitees names are on the invitation itself), most UK weddings
have arrangements for receiving presents. Postage in the UK is
sufficiently expensive that if you don't live near the bride and groom
it would be too expensive to mail it.

Can the postage expense not be figured into the cost of the gift?
When I shop I mostly shop by catalog, and the shipping charge is part
of the cost.

The problems here are that presents are commonly put on a table, but
the giver may (often does) forget to put a card in them under the
impression that he or she will give the gift directly to the bridal
couple and that the couple will REMEMBER who it was that handed them
that specific present. This latter assumption is especially
unrealistic.

Or the card is outside the package and gets separated. So no one
(except the giver) knows who the present is from. If the bride and
groom actually open the presents at the reception, the separation of
the card and gift becomes even more of a problem.

Plus someone must be delegated to log the gifts in and take the
presents somewhere after the reception, without getting them broken or
damaged.

And there is the not insignificant problem of theft. From the
reception, from the car of the person doing the transporting, or from
the house or apartment of the honeymooning couple.

When you read older books, the manners then are quite different to now.
At times manners have been very formal, with strict details on such
things as when and how long to visit people (afternoons only, leave
after 15 minutes), other times they are informal and apparently
left to the individual to decide.

Yes I've got an etiquette book from the 1800s which is quite amusing
to read. But while formal calls are not made anymore, there's a basic
underlying appropriateness of behavior. Such as that it's rude to
overstay your welcome, and the people in the neighborhood should
welcome a newcomer.

grandma Rosalie