If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
| Ray attempts Biblical justification: was U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:23:05 GMT, "Dennis Hancock"
wrote: "Byron Canfield" wrote in message news:bu4jb.780770$uu5.136098@sccrnsc04... "Ray Drouillard" wrote in message ... "Byron Canfield" wrote in message news:acOib.768006$uu5.134118@sccrnsc04... "Doan" wrote in message ... On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, LaVonne Carlson wrote: Ray Drouillard wrote: "LaVonne Carlson" wrote in message ... What you have done is pick and choose portions of the Old Testament to justify your behavior, and ignore those portions that you do not like or agree with. Actually, it looks like that is what you have done. You are trying to justify your practice of not disciplining your children, I disciplined my children without resorting to hitting them. Good for you. But that is not the issue. The issue here is how is it better? I have been challenging you for years to show me one "peer-reviewed" study in which, under the same condition, your non-cp alternatives are any better. So far, all you could do is avoid the issue, launch personal attacks against me. How about it, Dr. LaVonne? Doan The burden of proof is on you, Doan, to prove that committing acts of physical violence on other people accomplishes the ostensible goal when it is already apparent to so many that it is not necessary and is so obviously harmful.. Since you are proposing an alternative to system that is time-honored and proven successful, the burden of proof is upon you. "Time-honored" and "proven successful"? How do you figure? So, let's see, the fact that we have a massively disproportionate increase in the number of people in prison for violent offenses to the increase in population makes committing acts of violence upon impressionable youth "time-honored" and "proven successful" -- is that the proof you mean? Byron, and the increase in crime has skyrocketed in recent years, especially since we've been bombarded with psychobabble about how bad it is to spank a child. Many are growing up as spoiled brats, without any form of discipline in their lives and grow to adulthood and add to the problem. This is a myth proven by the ancient's declarations of the same just because teens going through their angst and separation preparation are so silly and weird. I engage them all the time, the more dangerous looking the better. They invariably turn out to be little sweetie pies trying to look mature...r r r r. Those that cast them in the role of evil teen would do well to remember that people will respond as we protray them. You need to check out the crime rate for teens...it's been going down for years, along with teen pregnancies. The media leads a lot of folks astray. Did you see CBS lead everyone in the country astray about home schoolers by broadcasting a story of four families (one of which never WAS a homeschool family) that had the tragedy of murders happen to them? It was a complete crock. One family wasn't known to two states child protective services with drug convictions for the father, and failure to protect and abuse as well. The state was after them to clean up their act just before the alleged murder suicide. Two other cases were clearly mental illness, and the failure was with other systems, not homeschooling. We know, if we homeschool and follow it, that children are safer in those homes than anywhere else. Just in incidence of child sexual abuse with school teacher and other child caregivers as the perps shows that....but no story on that. There has always been a situation of 'abuse' and 'spanking', two completely different terms which most of those 'enlightened' among us try to combine. We don't "combine" them. You apologists and spankers make that claim about us when we have carefully explained that even YOU folks can't define the two as separate and in the end horrible beatings get portrayed as just justifiable corporal punishment. Please don't try this old line on us. Anyone who does not spank a very young child to teach them discipline and not do somethin dangerous is putting their child's life at risk. Since the child cannot determine what is dangerous from one incident to the next unless conditions and the enviroment are exactly the same you folks completely miss the point. They aren't afraid of the danger...they are afraid of YOU, the more present and unpredictible danger. So they behave when you are around. They don't when you aren't because they don't know what you want. You take luck as success. Or the barrier you put up between them and the danger you discount. No, the burdon of proof is on those who come up with the new theories. Really? Who made that rule? I recall similar claims about slavery and chattel holding, as in women and children as property. For all of those who were simply 'spanked' as young children and went bad, there are millions of others who went on to become great leaders and members of the community, a great deal of them do NOT abuse their children, but are intelligent enough to understand the difference between disciplining them for their own safety and abusing them. Well, that's a beautiful declaration, but based on nonsense. Those who suffered spankings of a low enough order and frequency had a much better chance of surviving it so that the effects weren't all that apparent, but they are there, nontheless. Their native capacity to survive helped them out. But many that got no more than that really didn't do too well. Look around the world. Tell me you like the way we treat each other. Now just how low in spanking intensity and frequency must we go to improve things? I'd say give a shot to looking at non-punitive parenting...developmental support and enhancement, with appropriate redirection. I've posted recently on this. And we that don't punish are a bit annoyed that you'd assume because we don't spank we aren't teaching our children and helping them survive. Care to explain the Embry study? It has applications in other areas as well. There is nothing about the unwanted behavior of street entry that wouldn't cross over to the unwanted behavior of touching hot stoves, or not handling our cutlery, or leaving daddy's sharp tools alone. All without punishing. I have to assume, though you may wish to deny it, and of course I could be wrong, after 45 years or so of observation and analysis, that you believe as you do as a result of being spanked and the certain effect on your thinking....as in thinking errors. It's so apparent in that "spanking is not abuse" claim that I can't respond any other way but to chuckle. chuckle Kane |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
"Parenting Without Punishing" | Chris | General | 328 | July 1st 04 05:59 AM |
Debate on spanking | Doan | General | 0 | June 12th 04 08:30 PM |
| | Kids should work... | Kane | General | 13 | December 10th 03 02:30 AM |
Kids should work. | LaVonne Carlson | General | 22 | December 7th 03 04:27 AM |
|| U.N. rules Canada should ban spanking | Kane | Spanking | 0 | October 9th 03 08:35 PM |