Preparing sibling for birth process?

On Apr 14, 5:36 am, Banty wrote:
In article , toypup says...





wrote in message
...

I mean with the advent of air conditioned offices and careers in which
men and women can produce equal results, such as in computers. The
jobs of the past women did not want to do and they still do not want
to do jobs of physical labor. However, if there ever becomes a day
where a person can construct a building or home with a push of a
button, women will jump on that opportunity.

And why not? If a woman can do It as well as or better than a man and she
wants to do it, why not?

This air conditioned office thing is just plain silly. There are female
soldiers, female firefighters, female ironworkers, female atheletes. Never mind
recent examples, we have Clara Barton working in hot battlefields, Jane Goodall
working and living in jungles.

I guess he imagines it's the women shouldn't swe..., um, perspire.

It's the woman-on-pedestal thing. It's the old expectation that she be an
object of admiration for physical looks, while fulfilling a limited set of
roles. That's long been confused with 'respect'.

Banty

No, not at all. Women, even today, make up the minority of the jobs
you describe. Respect is dying and putting your life on the line for
your wife and children. A married woman covered in a burka in
Afghanistan has more respect and value than an unwed single mother in
America. However, from the American's point of view, she is oppressed.

Regards...

On Apr 14, 8:17 am, cjra wrote:
On Apr 14, 12:05 am, "toypup" wrote:



wrote in message

...

I mean with the advent of air conditioned offices and careers in which
men and women can produce equal results, such as in computers. The
jobs of the past women did not want to do and they still do not want
to do jobs of physical labor. However, if there ever becomes a day
where a person can construct a building or home with a push of a
button, women will jump on that opportunity.

And why not? If a woman can do It as well as or better than a man and she
wants to do it, why not?

We are not living In primitive conditions anymore and so we are not
constrained by them.

but I agree entirely with the rest of
your statement. The point I was making was that the traditional 50s
marriage model was for the woman always to be the one who stayed home.
You may have meant the phrase 'traditional marriage of the 50s' in a
looser sense, in which case we may be talking at cross-purposes.

[...]

I could care less who stays home. However, I also think having
predetermined roles in place can avoid arguments and build and
maintain a healthy relationship. It is also important to note that
each role is equally important to the stability of the family. When my
wife stayed home, she wasn't seen as a maid (even though her friends
told her she was) and I didn't consider myself to be a walking ATM
machine. Both her and my role were equally important.

I do agree that someone should stay home with the child, if possible. I
also agree that both the role of provider and SAHP are equally important.

You know, I used to think this, and still hope that in a few years
when the bills are paid off, I can stay home because I *want* to.
However, after having my child in daycare for some 18 months now, I've
learned the value of it. She's really thriving, and though I am sure I
could teach her a lot, I can't provide 6 other kids of multiple ages
to play with her all day, every day and teach her things of their own,
nor do I have the experience of child-rearing for 25 years, as my
babysitter does, to guide me. DD really loves her daycare, and I
almost feel guilty when we're home alone on weekends because she has
just mom and dad instead of a bunch of kids to play with. Even if we
were to do playgroups, we wouldn't be able to do that 8 hrs/day
everyday.

As a mom - even one who's been around kids and helped rear others kids
all her adult life, I really turn to my babysitter for advice and
suggestions, as she's had so much more, and varied experience.

That is one of the most pathetic and sadist things I ever heard. I
hope you improve.

I personally prefer that I be home rather than DH. It's sort of a selfish
thing, because I want to see my kids grow up. I'm glad I have that choice.
I wonder if men would like the choice to be home sometimes.


Generally speaking, women like to stay home and men like to work
outside the home. It's a proven study.

My DH likes the idea in theory, but realizes he'd have a hard time
doing it in practice.

Probably not for the reasons you think.

Regards...

In article ,
says...

On Apr 14, 5:36 am, Banty wrote:
In article , toypup says...





wrote in message
...

I mean with the advent of air conditioned offices and careers in which
men and women can produce equal results, such as in computers. The
jobs of the past women did not want to do and they still do not want
to do jobs of physical labor. However, if there ever becomes a day
where a person can construct a building or home with a push of a
button, women will jump on that opportunity.

And why not? If a woman can do It as well as or better than a man and she
wants to do it, why not?

This air conditioned office thing is just plain silly. There are female
soldiers, female firefighters, female ironworkers, female atheletes. Never mind
recent examples, we have Clara Barton working in hot battlefields, Jane Goodall
working and living in jungles.

I guess he imagines it's the women shouldn't swe..., um, perspire.

It's the woman-on-pedestal thing. It's the old expectation that she be an
object of admiration for physical looks, while fulfilling a limited set of
roles. That's long been confused with 'respect'.

Banty

No, not at all. Women, even today, make up the minority of the jobs
you describe. Respect is dying and putting your life on the line for
your wife and children. A married woman covered in a burka in
Afghanistan has more respect and value than an unwed single mother in
America. However, from the American's point of view, she is oppressed.


And you don't even realize you just said this to an unwed single mother in
America huh.

Banty

In article ,
says...

On Apr 14, 8:17 am, cjra wrote:
On Apr 14, 12:05 am, "toypup" wrote:



wrote in message

...

I mean with the advent of air conditioned offices and careers in which
men and women can produce equal results, such as in computers. The
jobs of the past women did not want to do and they still do not want
to do jobs of physical labor. However, if there ever becomes a day
where a person can construct a building or home with a push of a
button, women will jump on that opportunity.

And why not? If a woman can do It as well as or better than a man and she
wants to do it, why not?

We are not living In primitive conditions anymore and so we are not
constrained by them.

but I agree entirely with the rest of
your statement. The point I was making was that the traditional 50s
marriage model was for the woman always to be the one who stayed home.
You may have meant the phrase 'traditional marriage of the 50s' in a
looser sense, in which case we may be talking at cross-purposes.

[...]

I could care less who stays home. However, I also think having
predetermined roles in place can avoid arguments and build and
maintain a healthy relationship. It is also important to note that
each role is equally important to the stability of the family. When my
wife stayed home, she wasn't seen as a maid (even though her friends
told her she was) and I didn't consider myself to be a walking ATM
machine. Both her and my role were equally important.

I do agree that someone should stay home with the child, if possible. I
also agree that both the role of provider and SAHP are equally important.

You know, I used to think this, and still hope that in a few years
when the bills are paid off, I can stay home because I *want* to.
However, after having my child in daycare for some 18 months now, I've
learned the value of it. She's really thriving, and though I am sure I
could teach her a lot, I can't provide 6 other kids of multiple ages
to play with her all day, every day and teach her things of their own,
nor do I have the experience of child-rearing for 25 years, as my
babysitter does, to guide me. DD really loves her daycare, and I
almost feel guilty when we're home alone on weekends because she has
just mom and dad instead of a bunch of kids to play with. Even if we
were to do playgroups, we wouldn't be able to do that 8 hrs/day
everyday.

As a mom - even one who's been around kids and helped rear others kids
all her adult life, I really turn to my babysitter for advice and
suggestions, as she's had so much more, and varied experience.

That is one of the most pathetic and sadist things I ever heard. I
hope you improve.

How on earth is that "pathetic" or "sad"??

One person seeks advice from another person who is very experienced in the
matter. Has been happening since people were on the planet.

Your mother never discussed anything with a neighbor over coffee?



I personally prefer that I be home rather than DH. It's sort of a selfish
thing, because I want to see my kids grow up. I'm glad I have that choice.
I wonder if men would like the choice to be home sometimes.


Generally speaking, women like to stay home and men like to work
outside the home. It's a proven study.

Good - then you can give us a cite to that study.

Banty

On Apr 19, 5:38 am, Banty wrote:
In article ,
says...





On Apr 14, 5:36 am, Banty wrote:
In article , toypup says...

wrote in message
...

I mean with the advent of air conditioned offices and careers in which
men and women can produce equal results, such as in computers. The
jobs of the past women did not want to do and they still do not want
to do jobs of physical labor. However, if there ever becomes a day
where a person can construct a building or home with a push of a
button, women will jump on that opportunity.

And why not? If a woman can do It as well as or better than a man and she
wants to do it, why not?

This air conditioned office thing is just plain silly. There are female
soldiers, female firefighters, female ironworkers, female atheletes. Never mind
recent examples, we have Clara Barton working in hot battlefields, Jane Goodall
working and living in jungles.

I guess he imagines it's the women shouldn't swe..., um, perspire.

It's the woman-on-pedestal thing. It's the old expectation that she be an
object of admiration for physical looks, while fulfilling a limited set of
roles. That's long been confused with 'respect'.

Banty

No, not at all. Women, even today, make up the minority of the jobs
you describe. Respect is dying and putting your life on the line for
your wife and children. A married woman covered in a burka in
Afghanistan has more respect and value than an unwed single mother in
America. However, from the American's point of view, she is oppressed.

And you don't even realize you just said this to an unwed single mother in
America huh.

Banty

Then you should have first hand experience of what I am saying. It's
you and your child. No one to help you in life. No one to put their
life on the line for you and your child. You were some guy's temporary
toilet. Your level of respect and value is the same as of that toilet.
You go girl!

Regards...

On Apr 19, 5:40 am, Banty wrote:
In article ,
says...

SNIP

That is one of the most pathetic and sadist things I ever heard. I
hope you improve.

How on earth is that "pathetic" or "sad"??

That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers
than to sit down with the child and help her grow.

One person seeks advice from another person who is very experienced in the
matter. Has been happening since people were on the planet.

Your mother never discussed anything with a neighbor over coffee?


About abandoning her kids to day care and preferring it? No, I don't
think it ever came up.


Generally speaking, women like to stay home and men like to work
outside the home. It's a proven study.

Good - then you can give us a cite to that study.

You must be kidding me.

I'll even be so brave to cite a source in which the feminist attacked:
http://www.brandeis.edu/centers/cfwp/articles/6661.pdf

"New York Times columnist John Tierney looked at the study and a few
weeks ago concluded that women "want their husbands to be providers
who give them financial security and freedom.""

No ****! They needed a study for this???? One just needs to look at
the beauty market to see women enhancing their appearance to attract
rich successful men. (Generally speaking).

Here's another generalization for you: Men prefer their wives to stay
at home and take care of the house and family rather than pursue a
career.

http://www.annistonstar.com/opinion/...-5a13r1753.htm


Banty

Regards...

In article ,
agsf_57 says...

On Apr 19, 5:38 am, Banty wrote:
In article ,
says...





On Apr 14, 5:36 am, Banty wrote:
In article , toypup says...

wrote in message
...

I mean with the advent of air conditioned offices and careers in which
men and women can produce equal results, such as in computers. The
jobs of the past women did not want to do and they still do not want
to do jobs of physical labor. However, if there ever becomes a day
where a person can construct a building or home with a push of a
button, women will jump on that opportunity.

And why not? If a woman can do It as well as or better than a man and she
wants to do it, why not?

This air conditioned office thing is just plain silly. There are female
soldiers, female firefighters, female ironworkers, female atheletes. Never
mind
recent examples, we have Clara Barton working in hot battlefields, Jane
Goodall
working and living in jungles.

I guess he imagines it's the women shouldn't swe..., um, perspire.

It's the woman-on-pedestal thing. It's the old expectation that she be an
object of admiration for physical looks, while fulfilling a limited set of
roles. That's long been confused with 'respect'.

Banty

No, not at all. Women, even today, make up the minority of the jobs
you describe. Respect is dying and putting your life on the line for
your wife and children. A married woman covered in a burka in
Afghanistan has more respect and value than an unwed single mother in
America. However, from the American's point of view, she is oppressed.

And you don't even realize you just said this to an unwed single mother in
America huh.

Banty

Then you should have first hand experience of what I am saying. It's
you and your child. No one to help you in life. No one to put their
life on the line for you and your child. You were some guy's temporary
toilet. Your level of respect and value is the same as of that toilet.
You go girl!

Regards...


Bzzzzt!!

Wrong on all counts. You go to the back of the line.

Banty

In article ,
agsf_57 says...

On Apr 19, 5:40 am, Banty wrote:
In article ,
says...

SNIP

That is one of the most pathetic and sadist things I ever heard. I
hope you improve.

How on earth is that "pathetic" or "sad"??

That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers
than to sit down with the child and help her grow.

She doesn't know her childcare provider?


One person seeks advice from another person who is very experienced in the
matter. Has been happening since people were on the planet.

Your mother never discussed anything with a neighbor over coffee?


About abandoning her kids to day care and preferring it? No, I don't
think it ever came up.


Generally speaking, women like to stay home and men like to work
outside the home. It's a proven study.

Good - then you can give us a cite to that study.

You must be kidding me.

I'll even be so brave to cite a source in which the feminist attacked:
http://www.brandeis.edu/centers/cfwp/articles/6661.pdf

"New York Times columnist John Tierney looked at the study and a few
weeks ago concluded that women "want their husbands to be providers
who give them financial security and freedom.""

That does not prove your statement. It's a different statement.


No ****! They needed a study for this???? One just needs to look at
the beauty market to see women enhancing their appearance to attract
rich successful men. (Generally speaking).


Rogaine off the shelves??

Banty

On Apr 19, 7:40 am, Banty wrote:

Generally speaking, women like to stay home and men like to work
outside the home. It's a proven study.

Good - then you can give us a cite to that study.

A narrower generalization that has some support is that mothers prefer
not to work full time:

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/536/working-women

Fewer Mothers Prefer Full-time Work
From 1997 to 2007
July 12, 2007

In the span of the past decade, full-time work outside the home has
lost some of its appeal to mothers. This trend holds both for mothers
who have such jobs and those who don't.

Among working mothers with minor children (ages 17 and under), just
one-in-five (21%) say full-time work is the ideal situation for them,
down from the 32% who said this back in 1997, according to a new Pew
Research Center survey. Fully six-in-ten (up from 48% in 1997) of
today's working mothers say part-time work would be their ideal, and
another one-in-five (19%) say she would prefer not working at all
outside the home.

rest at site

In article ,
Beliavsky says...

On Apr 19, 7:40 am, Banty wrote:

Generally speaking, women like to stay home and men like to work
outside the home. It's a proven study.

Good - then you can give us a cite to that study.

A narrower generalization that has some support is that mothers prefer
not to work full time:

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/536/working-women

Fewer Mothers Prefer Full-time Work
From 1997 to 2007
July 12, 2007

In the span of the past decade, full-time work outside the home has
lost some of its appeal to mothers. This trend holds both for mothers
who have such jobs and those who don't.

Among working mothers with minor children (ages 17 and under), just
one-in-five (21%) say full-time work is the ideal situation for them,
down from the 32% who said this back in 1997, according to a new Pew
Research Center survey. Fully six-in-ten (up from 48% in 1997) of
today's working mothers say part-time work would be their ideal, and
another one-in-five (19%) say she would prefer not working at all
outside the home.

rest at site


Sure.

That would accord with what I have observed, and it makes sense, too - wanting
fewer employment hours at a time of life when there are other responsibilities
that don't accord with the normal full time employment hours.

OF course, honestly told a lot of people would like to *never* need full time
employment, if the question was asked the right way. Practicality being another
matter.

But as you point out it's very much narrower than what was asserted.

Banty