Sorta stood up to MIL

Megan --

Sorry. Yes, I misunderstood.

Julie



Megan Byrne wrote:

My kids are TWO people, not ONE.

~Megan~
Aidan Matthew & Alexis Valerie
Born September 28, 2002

www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aidannalexis

Rhiann1048 wrote:

And *I* simply cannot believe that a parent would sit quietly by and smile when
their children are deliberately slighted in this way. If you do not nip this is
the bud *now*, it will not change.

What happens when they are 10 and they are talking to their cousins about the
great DVD Aunt whatever bought them and they find that their cousins each got
one and they had to share. You don't think that will hurt their feelings?
This isn't about being rude but about protecting your kids from being hurt by
thoughtless relatives. They will be hurt plenty by others in their lives. It
isn't too much to expect some courtesy from *family*.

I want to be clear about one thing. I am not saying that it is never
appropriate to give a joint gift. Not at all. My girls have been given
several joint gifts from various relatives and friends -- things like blocks,
videos, a Little People house, and sidewalk chalk. But these are all things
they can play with alone or *together*. And those kinds of gifts are
wonderful.

What makes Megan's situation different is the choice of gift and the way she
shortchanged her kids compared to other cousins -- IMO that warrants something
more than merely being grateful.


As for the issue of treating twins as one, these are ONE-YEAR-OLDS!!!!
They have no clue!!! They are not offended!!!

Not yet anyway. So you would rather just sit by quietly and not say anything
until they *do* understand? How about nipping this in the bud *now* so
feelings aren't hurt later on.

Lori

Lori --

Okay, call me a lousy mother, but I have actually never paid attention
to who gives what to whom on holidays, so I have no clue whether my
siblings and my siblings-in-law and my parents (my parents-in-law have
both passed away) give more or less to my kids in comparison to other
cousins. We don't measure how much our relatives love our kids by what
they give them on holidays, nor would I want to imply to my kids to
think that Grandma and Grandpa love them less because they were given a
toy to share, when their cousin got one of his very own. Honestly, it
wouldn't ever occur to them to think that way, so why should I introduce
the concept? Gifts are NOT a barometer of love.

NOW -- if a relative were being outwardly rude to our kids -- e.g.
inviting other nieces/nephews onto their lap but not allowing ours to
cuddle; or ignoring them or being unnecessarily short or rude while
being warm with other children; or otherwise treating them in a way that
would make them feel less loved than their cousins, then surely I would
say something, because that is simply unacceptable. But compare gifts?
Never. And my kids don't do it either. It's pretty clear from what
Megan describes that her relationship with her in-laws is, for whatever
reason, dysfunctional enough that she shouldn't touch the subject with a
ten foot pole. They would likely hold it against her. Her dh
definitely needs to go to bat for her. If he doesn't see it, bring the
video camera to the next family event and document it for him. Then
tell him that he either needs to deal with it, or avoid family
get-togethers where the other cousins are there and the kids might feel
inferior.

Like Nik said, it is not likely that the in-laws are going to change.
And as someone else suggested, I'm not entirely sure that it was a
deliberate slight. It is entirely possible that this was simply someone
incorrectly thinking that two would be overkill. Believe it or not,
when our kids turned one, they got a ride-on toy for their birthday.
Just one. From my SIL! (no, I'm really not making that up). We loved
the one she gave us, and got another one to make an even pair.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97

Rhiann1048 wrote:

And *I* simply cannot believe that a parent would sit quietly by and smile when
their children are deliberately slighted in this way. If you do not nip this is
the bud *now*, it will not change.

What happens when they are 10 and they are talking to their cousins about the
great DVD Aunt whatever bought them and they find that their cousins each got
one and they had to share. You don't think that will hurt their feelings?
This isn't about being rude but about protecting your kids from being hurt by
thoughtless relatives. They will be hurt plenty by others in their lives. It
isn't too much to expect some courtesy from *family*.

I want to be clear about one thing. I am not saying that it is never
appropriate to give a joint gift. Not at all. My girls have been given
several joint gifts from various relatives and friends -- things like blocks,
videos, a Little People house, and sidewalk chalk. But these are all things
they can play with alone or *together*. And those kinds of gifts are
wonderful.

What makes Megan's situation different is the choice of gift and the way she
shortchanged her kids compared to other cousins -- IMO that warrants something
more than merely being grateful.


As for the issue of treating twins as one, these are ONE-YEAR-OLDS!!!!
They have no clue!!! They are not offended!!!

Not yet anyway. So you would rather just sit by quietly and not say anything
until they *do* understand? How about nipping this in the bud *now* so
feelings aren't hurt later on.

Lori

Lori --

Okay, call me a lousy mother, but I have actually never paid attention
to who gives what to whom on holidays, so I have no clue whether my
siblings and my siblings-in-law and my parents (my parents-in-law have
both passed away) give more or less to my kids in comparison to other
cousins. We don't measure how much our relatives love our kids by what
they give them on holidays, nor would I want to imply to my kids to
think that Grandma and Grandpa love them less because they were given a
toy to share, when their cousin got one of his very own. Honestly, it
wouldn't ever occur to them to think that way, so why should I introduce
the concept? Gifts are NOT a barometer of love.

NOW -- if a relative were being outwardly rude to our kids -- e.g.
inviting other nieces/nephews onto their lap but not allowing ours to
cuddle; or ignoring them or being unnecessarily short or rude while
being warm with other children; or otherwise treating them in a way that
would make them feel less loved than their cousins, then surely I would
say something, because that is simply unacceptable. But compare gifts?
Never. And my kids don't do it either. It's pretty clear from what
Megan describes that her relationship with her in-laws is, for whatever
reason, dysfunctional enough that she shouldn't touch the subject with a
ten foot pole. They would likely hold it against her. Her dh
definitely needs to go to bat for her. If he doesn't see it, bring the
video camera to the next family event and document it for him. Then
tell him that he either needs to deal with it, or avoid family
get-togethers where the other cousins are there and the kids might feel
inferior.

Like Nik said, it is not likely that the in-laws are going to change.
And as someone else suggested, I'm not entirely sure that it was a
deliberate slight. It is entirely possible that this was simply someone
incorrectly thinking that two would be overkill. Believe it or not,
when our kids turned one, they got a ride-on toy for their birthday.
Just one. From my SIL! (no, I'm really not making that up). We loved
the one she gave us, and got another one to make an even pair.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97

Julie,
Every scenario you mentioned, pluse some, has happened! It's not that I
won't 'touch it with a 10 foot pole', it's just something I can't sit
here and type about. It's more something that would be easier telling in
person. Do you understand? My IL's have not been nice and welcoming
since the moment they found out about me. It is fine that they don't
like me, but now that I have innocent children, it's different.
Hopefully, DH will see it now with the kids. I hate the thought of the
holidays coming up. Yuck!


~Megan~
Aidan Matthew & Alexis Valerie
Born September 28, 2002

www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aidannalexis

Julie,
Every scenario you mentioned, pluse some, has happened! It's not that I
won't 'touch it with a 10 foot pole', it's just something I can't sit
here and type about. It's more something that would be easier telling in
person. Do you understand? My IL's have not been nice and welcoming
since the moment they found out about me. It is fine that they don't
like me, but now that I have innocent children, it's different.
Hopefully, DH will see it now with the kids. I hate the thought of the
holidays coming up. Yuck!


~Megan~
Aidan Matthew & Alexis Valerie
Born September 28, 2002

www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aidannalexis

Subject: Sorta stood up to MIL
From: Julie Seely ess
Date: Fri, Oct 24, 2003 5:50 PM
Message-id:

snip

Okay, call me a lousy mother, but I have actually never paid attention
to who gives what to whom on holidays, so I have no clue whether my
siblings and my siblings-in-law and my parents (my parents-in-law have
both passed away) give more or less to my kids in comparison to other
cousins.

Honestly, neither do I. My childrens' cousins are scattered all over the
country and we have only spent Christmas once with two of them since they've
been born. And I certainly wasn't there with a pen keeping track of the gifts
my nephews got vs. my kids. I should also add that I don't have any inlaw
'issues'. I'm lucky that I have great inlaws and I get along with them just
fine.

But if it were traditional and for one person in the family to give all
children a particular gift at a particular milstone birthday and I saw my kids
get one when everyone else got their own? I'd be upset. As others have pointed
out this isn't something that is relevent to all gift giving situations. But
in *this* one it was a slight and the animonsity between Megan and her inlaws
proves that.


We don't measure how much our relatives love our kids by what
they give them on holidays, nor would I want to imply to my kids to
think that Grandma and Grandpa love them less because they were given a
toy to share, when their cousin got one of his very own. Honestly, it
wouldn't ever occur to them to think that way, so why should I introduce
the concept? Gifts are NOT a barometer of love.

Hmmm. So you put as much thought and money into gifts for your mother and
children as you do the mail carrier or a neighbor? If giving a gift says
nothing about your feelings towards the recipient, then I guess you must.

Would you ever *dream* of giving Chris a PS2, a new skateboard, and his own TV
in his room for his birthday and giving Erica some underwear and socks for the
same occasion?? Of *course* you wouldn't. You love them the same so you
threat them with equal respect on their birthday. Why should it be any
different with a grandparent and their grandkids or an aunt and her
neices/nephews?

Lori

Subject: Sorta stood up to MIL
From: Julie Seely ess
Date: Fri, Oct 24, 2003 5:50 PM
Message-id:

snip

Okay, call me a lousy mother, but I have actually never paid attention
to who gives what to whom on holidays, so I have no clue whether my
siblings and my siblings-in-law and my parents (my parents-in-law have
both passed away) give more or less to my kids in comparison to other
cousins.

Honestly, neither do I. My childrens' cousins are scattered all over the
country and we have only spent Christmas once with two of them since they've
been born. And I certainly wasn't there with a pen keeping track of the gifts
my nephews got vs. my kids. I should also add that I don't have any inlaw
'issues'. I'm lucky that I have great inlaws and I get along with them just
fine.

But if it were traditional and for one person in the family to give all
children a particular gift at a particular milstone birthday and I saw my kids
get one when everyone else got their own? I'd be upset. As others have pointed
out this isn't something that is relevent to all gift giving situations. But
in *this* one it was a slight and the animonsity between Megan and her inlaws
proves that.


We don't measure how much our relatives love our kids by what
they give them on holidays, nor would I want to imply to my kids to
think that Grandma and Grandpa love them less because they were given a
toy to share, when their cousin got one of his very own. Honestly, it
wouldn't ever occur to them to think that way, so why should I introduce
the concept? Gifts are NOT a barometer of love.

Hmmm. So you put as much thought and money into gifts for your mother and
children as you do the mail carrier or a neighbor? If giving a gift says
nothing about your feelings towards the recipient, then I guess you must.

Would you ever *dream* of giving Chris a PS2, a new skateboard, and his own TV
in his room for his birthday and giving Erica some underwear and socks for the
same occasion?? Of *course* you wouldn't. You love them the same so you
threat them with equal respect on their birthday. Why should it be any
different with a grandparent and their grandkids or an aunt and her
neices/nephews?

Lori

Sorry, this is LONG!

Rhiann1048 wrote:

Honestly, neither do I. My childrens' cousins are scattered all over the
country and we have only spent Christmas once with two of them since they've
been born. And I certainly wasn't there with a pen keeping track of the gifts
my nephews got vs. my kids. I should also add that I don't have any inlaw
'issues'. I'm lucky that I have great inlaws and I get along with them just
fine.

But if it were traditional and for one person in the family to give all
children a particular gift at a particular milstone birthday and I saw my kids
get one when everyone else got their own? I'd be upset. As others have pointed
out this isn't something that is relevent to all gift giving situations. But
in *this* one it was a slight and the animonsity between Megan and her inlaws
proves that.


I will confess that I didn't get as strong a sense of "tradition" from
Megan's description as you did. I surely didn't picture the red carpet
rolling out and the SIL descending with the gift. :-) Even so, though,
I can honestly say that if she walked down the red carpet toward my
one-year-olds with one box with one ride on toy in it, no, it would not
bother me at all. Not one bit. Like Helen, we got one of pretty much
everything and got a second later if it proved to be a must-have item
(two swings, two bouncy seats, one johnnie-jump-up, one exersaucer).
One car seat would be a very strange gift for one-year-olds to share,
but I still don't see it as being rude or strange for a relative to give
them one ride on toy. BTDT and it never struck me as odd.

But my point here, and I guess I'm not expressing it very well, is that
it seemed to me from Megan's earliest posts -- and does seem different
from subsequent posts -- that Megan was most upset about the shared gift
aspect of her kids' treatment, instead of the general "second class
citizen" treatment -- i.e. less affection from the in-laws, etc. I
can't help but wonder whether, if, all other things were hunky dory --
A&A were treated lovingly and respectfully and affectionately by the
IL's, with the one annoyance that they were given a shared gift --
whether this would be such a big issue. If not, then maybe, especially
given the friction between the families, it might be best to deal with
the issue of how A&A are being treated without delving into the gift
issue. As I said before, at this age, and probably for another
year-and-a-half or even two, they are unaware and thus completely
unaffected by the gift-giving imbalance. But the lack of
affection/respect/warmth is affecting them here and now, and *that* is
what I would nip in the bud. If the family is confronted about "not
giving A&A enough gifts", ESPECIALLY if Megan chooses to deal with it
instead of DH, then it will probably seem to them just as it seemed to
me at the outset: materialistic and grabby and ungrateful. BUT, if the
family is asked to treat A&A as warmly and lovingly as they treat the
other children in the family, without making any mention of gifts, there
should be no way for the family to hold that against Megan or her DH.
As I said before, given the apparent hostility between Megan and the IL
family, I don't personally think that this is something that Megan
*should* deal with, as it is likely that anything that comes from her
mouth is discounted, ignored, and even mocked. It needs to come from
DH. And if that requires Megan to become the official family
videographer for a while (and maybe the family's behavior will improve
if they're always on camera!), then so be it. Like it or not, I think
Megan's role at this juncture has to be observing the inequities,
drawing her dh's attention to them, and getting him to deal with them.
All while maintaining and oh-so-gracious demeanor and being charming.
Yeah, easier said than done, but anything else is a lose-lose situation
for her.

Hmmm. So you put as much thought and money into gifts for your mother and
children as you do the mail carrier or a neighbor? If giving a gift says
nothing about your feelings towards the recipient, then I guess you must.

Would you ever *dream* of giving Chris a PS2, a new skateboard, and his own TV
in his room for his birthday and giving Erica some underwear and socks for the
same occasion?? Of *course* you wouldn't. You love them the same so you
threat them with equal respect on their birthday. Why should it be any
different with a grandparent and their grandkids or an aunt and her
neices/nephews?


Okay, easy question first: we do very little holiday gift-giving. We
have a P.O. Box, so no mail carrier. We do not have a cleaning lady or
anyone else we give gifts to. The ONLY people we buy holiday gifts for
are C&E, 3 nephews and a niece; we draw names among the adults, and dh
and I exchange gifts (usually). We do not exchange gifts among the
adults in John's family, only the kids. I put a lot of thought into
every gift I buy. Doesn't matter who it's for. Our kids exchange gifts
with a few of their closest friends. They choose, I pay.

In my own dealings with my kids, I do my best to treat them equally in
everything -- whether it be "you can each choose two books and we'll
read stories on the couch", "you can each choose a flavor of cereal",
general affection, or in gift-giving. I don't let one choose three
books and the other choose one, if we already have nearly enough cereal
I tell them to agree on one box, not let just one child choose, and I do
my best to buy them each at least a few things from their respective
wish lists on gift-giving occasions. NOT that who I allow to choose the
cereal -- or what gifts we give them -- is any indicator of who is a
favorite, but more for my *own* comfort level, I treat them equally. If
Erica's wish list contained only underwear and socks, and I knew that
was all she wanted? I'd probably take her to have her head examined.

Megan mentions two previous nephews, not brothers, who have been given
ride-on toys. I don't know whether there are any other cousins, but if
not, there may be a bit of an attitude from the ILs of treating each
*family* equally. In my own family, I have two older sisters. One has
a son who is two years older than C&E; his mom, my sister, is a single
mom and on a tighter budget than we are on. My other sister is a
childless MD. If I had 10 kids and my other sister had one, what would
my oldest sister do about gifts, if she gives it any thought? Would she
buy us 10 ride on toys? Would she feel right spending 10 times as much
on my family as she spent on her other sister's family? Maybe she might
buy my other sister's son a bit more. As I said, we're not a family
that keeps track of who gets what, but if we were, I wouldn't think that
inappropriate at all. So why is it inapproppriate if there are two
children vs. one child? Can she spend a bit more on my other sister's
son, especially since C&E get the benefit of sharing many of their
toys? Whatever she does is fine by me. I'm just grateful that she's
crazy about all three kids, loves to spend time with them, and they're
all crazy about her. That's all that matters.

Julie

Sorry, this is LONG!

Rhiann1048 wrote:

Honestly, neither do I. My childrens' cousins are scattered all over the
country and we have only spent Christmas once with two of them since they've
been born. And I certainly wasn't there with a pen keeping track of the gifts
my nephews got vs. my kids. I should also add that I don't have any inlaw
'issues'. I'm lucky that I have great inlaws and I get along with them just
fine.

But if it were traditional and for one person in the family to give all
children a particular gift at a particular milstone birthday and I saw my kids
get one when everyone else got their own? I'd be upset. As others have pointed
out this isn't something that is relevent to all gift giving situations. But
in *this* one it was a slight and the animonsity between Megan and her inlaws
proves that.


I will confess that I didn't get as strong a sense of "tradition" from
Megan's description as you did. I surely didn't picture the red carpet
rolling out and the SIL descending with the gift. :-) Even so, though,
I can honestly say that if she walked down the red carpet toward my
one-year-olds with one box with one ride on toy in it, no, it would not
bother me at all. Not one bit. Like Helen, we got one of pretty much
everything and got a second later if it proved to be a must-have item
(two swings, two bouncy seats, one johnnie-jump-up, one exersaucer).
One car seat would be a very strange gift for one-year-olds to share,
but I still don't see it as being rude or strange for a relative to give
them one ride on toy. BTDT and it never struck me as odd.

But my point here, and I guess I'm not expressing it very well, is that
it seemed to me from Megan's earliest posts -- and does seem different
from subsequent posts -- that Megan was most upset about the shared gift
aspect of her kids' treatment, instead of the general "second class
citizen" treatment -- i.e. less affection from the in-laws, etc. I
can't help but wonder whether, if, all other things were hunky dory --
A&A were treated lovingly and respectfully and affectionately by the
IL's, with the one annoyance that they were given a shared gift --
whether this would be such a big issue. If not, then maybe, especially
given the friction between the families, it might be best to deal with
the issue of how A&A are being treated without delving into the gift
issue. As I said before, at this age, and probably for another
year-and-a-half or even two, they are unaware and thus completely
unaffected by the gift-giving imbalance. But the lack of
affection/respect/warmth is affecting them here and now, and *that* is
what I would nip in the bud. If the family is confronted about "not
giving A&A enough gifts", ESPECIALLY if Megan chooses to deal with it
instead of DH, then it will probably seem to them just as it seemed to
me at the outset: materialistic and grabby and ungrateful. BUT, if the
family is asked to treat A&A as warmly and lovingly as they treat the
other children in the family, without making any mention of gifts, there
should be no way for the family to hold that against Megan or her DH.
As I said before, given the apparent hostility between Megan and the IL
family, I don't personally think that this is something that Megan
*should* deal with, as it is likely that anything that comes from her
mouth is discounted, ignored, and even mocked. It needs to come from
DH. And if that requires Megan to become the official family
videographer for a while (and maybe the family's behavior will improve
if they're always on camera!), then so be it. Like it or not, I think
Megan's role at this juncture has to be observing the inequities,
drawing her dh's attention to them, and getting him to deal with them.
All while maintaining and oh-so-gracious demeanor and being charming.
Yeah, easier said than done, but anything else is a lose-lose situation
for her.

Hmmm. So you put as much thought and money into gifts for your mother and
children as you do the mail carrier or a neighbor? If giving a gift says
nothing about your feelings towards the recipient, then I guess you must.

Would you ever *dream* of giving Chris a PS2, a new skateboard, and his own TV
in his room for his birthday and giving Erica some underwear and socks for the
same occasion?? Of *course* you wouldn't. You love them the same so you
threat them with equal respect on their birthday. Why should it be any
different with a grandparent and their grandkids or an aunt and her
neices/nephews?


Okay, easy question first: we do very little holiday gift-giving. We
have a P.O. Box, so no mail carrier. We do not have a cleaning lady or
anyone else we give gifts to. The ONLY people we buy holiday gifts for
are C&E, 3 nephews and a niece; we draw names among the adults, and dh
and I exchange gifts (usually). We do not exchange gifts among the
adults in John's family, only the kids. I put a lot of thought into
every gift I buy. Doesn't matter who it's for. Our kids exchange gifts
with a few of their closest friends. They choose, I pay.

In my own dealings with my kids, I do my best to treat them equally in
everything -- whether it be "you can each choose two books and we'll
read stories on the couch", "you can each choose a flavor of cereal",
general affection, or in gift-giving. I don't let one choose three
books and the other choose one, if we already have nearly enough cereal
I tell them to agree on one box, not let just one child choose, and I do
my best to buy them each at least a few things from their respective
wish lists on gift-giving occasions. NOT that who I allow to choose the
cereal -- or what gifts we give them -- is any indicator of who is a
favorite, but more for my *own* comfort level, I treat them equally. If
Erica's wish list contained only underwear and socks, and I knew that
was all she wanted? I'd probably take her to have her head examined.

Megan mentions two previous nephews, not brothers, who have been given
ride-on toys. I don't know whether there are any other cousins, but if
not, there may be a bit of an attitude from the ILs of treating each
*family* equally. In my own family, I have two older sisters. One has
a son who is two years older than C&E; his mom, my sister, is a single
mom and on a tighter budget than we are on. My other sister is a
childless MD. If I had 10 kids and my other sister had one, what would
my oldest sister do about gifts, if she gives it any thought? Would she
buy us 10 ride on toys? Would she feel right spending 10 times as much
on my family as she spent on her other sister's family? Maybe she might
buy my other sister's son a bit more. As I said, we're not a family
that keeps track of who gets what, but if we were, I wouldn't think that
inappropriate at all. So why is it inapproppriate if there are two
children vs. one child? Can she spend a bit more on my other sister's
son, especially since C&E get the benefit of sharing many of their
toys? Whatever she does is fine by me. I'm just grateful that she's
crazy about all three kids, loves to spend time with them, and they're
all crazy about her. That's all that matters.

Julie

Funnily enough, I'm one of 4 kids, and I don't remember having *anything*
like the pile o' toys currently 'crapping' up my house.

Me neither!! But then again, kid's meals weren't available back then...

I think my parents
just didn't give us many, in part because dad hates clutter, and because we
could play with each other.

Mine are just "frugal".

I'm trying to get rid of some of the current
crop of toys. (Free to good homes!)

I got some to get rid of too!!

Stephanie
Jake and Ryan 9/3/99