When did daycares become "schools"?

"Robyn Kozierok" wrote:

: I can understand parents thinking, before they ever put
their child in
: a child care program, that it wouldn't provide the same
: structure/curriculum as a "preschool" program, but I don't
understand
: how parents with children *in* the program can continue to
have this
: misconception. Don't the see what goes on in the program?

They do see what goes on in the program, but it sometimes
does not make a difference. For example, I have one family
who had all three of their children in my program over the
years. The oldest child was with me until he went to
Kindergarten (with a few mornings of preschool to get him
used to a larger group), the next was with me until 4 years
of age (with a few mornings of preschool, and then a full
year of full day preschool), and the third was with me until
3 and will be having two full years of full day preschool
prior to Kindergarten. The Mom, who is a fairly good
friend, kept saying with child number 2 that she did not
know why she switched him, because the bigger school was
just a 'glorified Ruthie's'. With child number 3 she was
very sad and apologetic, but said that once you are in the
preschool systems and hang out with the Mommies, she felt
like she had to get them into the bigger programs earlier
basically because of peer pressure. There really isn't much
I could say as the program she went to is excellent, and the
children are very sociable and handle change well

: I had my children in a family/home daycare program for
many
: years. My children learned as much if not more than they
would
: have in a formal preschool program. It would never have
: occurred to me to remove my children from this wonderful
program
: to attend a more formal "school" program. (When she moved
out
: of state when my children were 1 and 4yo, I did move the
older
: child to a preschool, the younger to another family
daycare. At
: that point I did want the 4yo to have a transition to a
larger
: group prior to kindergarten.)
:
: When we moved out of state the next year, I didn't need
childcare
: and didn't sign the 2yo up for preschool, but did take him
: to gymnastics and music classes to have time with other
kids.
: The next 2 years he attended a "developmental" preschool
in which
: the children learned all kinds of things that they were
interested
: in but there wasn't any empahsis on traditional academics
(alphabet,
: numbers, etc.)
:
: To me, the line between daycare and preschool is thin. I
think almost
: any childcare program will offer a more structured/formal
program for
: children as they get to "preschool age" regardless of
whether or not
: they bill the program as "school". A lot of daycares have
a more
: formal school-like program for preschoolers in the
morning, and then
: less structured activities in the afternoon. Then again,
a lot of
: preschools offer extended care outside of their core
program. So, like
: I said, the line is pretty thin.

It was great to read your post! I know this to be the case,
but enjoy hearing it from a parental unit

mixed age group activities
: Another option is letting the older children do some of
the
: more complex projects while the younger children nap.
This
: worked well in the first program my children attended.

Believe it or not, all of the children in my care either nap
or have quiet time. Invariably the elder children sleep as
hard and long as the little ones. What I do if we have a
really intense activity planned is let the younger children
work on something else in another area.

Ruth B

In article ,
Ruth Baltopoulos wrote:

mixed age group activities
: Another option is letting the older children do some of
the
: more complex projects while the younger children nap.
This
: worked well in the first program my children attended.

Believe it or not, all of the children in my care either nap
or have quiet time. Invariably the elder children sleep as
hard and long as the little ones. What I do if we have a
really intense activity planned is let the younger children
work on something else in another area.


Most of the infants napped twice, and the older kids only once, so
the big ones could do activities that might have been dangerous or
inappropriate for infants during the morning nap time. My oldest
did nap all afternoon (4 hours!) when he was in childcare until
he turned 4 (when our daycare provider moved and he moved into a
"preschool" program with before-and-after childcare that had naptime
built in, but wasn't really conducive to napping... 4 hours to no
nap cold turkey! eeeek!)

--Robyn

I am a Toddler 1 teacher in MO. That is funny to me. A toddler 1 teacher.
Someone who is actually trying to teacher a toddler. Read to a toddler. Do
art projects with a toddler. Am I crazy or what? I teach the younger
one-year-olds in our daycare. We are trying to become accredidated so that
means we have to teach them things. We have to have a "creative
curriculum". Yes this means that they do more learning through play. But
we still have to do art projects with them as well as large and small
motor skills, read to them, fingerplays, music time, and sensory projects.
When I took this job I thought it would be just playing with little kids
all day long and changing a few diapers. Seriously have you ever tried to
sit a 1 year old down and do an art project with them? I am not talking
about letting them play with crayons or markers but making an actual art
project. It is nearly impossible but it has to be done. What happen to a
daycare being a daycare and not a "school"? Shouldn't little children be
able to play and have fun vs. going to school before their preschool
years. I completely agree with 2.5 and up following a curriculum. But
before that age we are worrying about changing diapers, feeding, making
sure nobody is getting bit,nobody is falling, nobody is putting something
in their mouth, potty training, and all the other joys that come along
with a infants/toddlers. Then we have to try and find things that they can
do. That is nearly impossible as well. They want us to "teach" them but we
have limited resources to do this!

Samijo wrote:

I am a Toddler 1 teacher in MO. That is funny to me. A toddler 1 teacher.
Someone who is actually trying to teacher a toddler. Read to a toddler. Do
art projects with a toddler. Am I crazy or what? I teach the younger
one-year-olds in our daycare. We are trying to become accredidated so that
means we have to teach them things. We have to have a "creative
curriculum". Yes this means that they do more learning through play. But
we still have to do art projects with them as well as large and small
motor skills, read to them, fingerplays, music time, and sensory projects.
When I took this job I thought it would be just playing with little kids
all day long and changing a few diapers. Seriously have you ever tried to
sit a 1 year old down and do an art project with them? I am not talking
about letting them play with crayons or markers but making an actual art
project. It is nearly impossible but it has to be done. What happen to a
daycare being a daycare and not a "school"? Shouldn't little children be
able to play and have fun vs. going to school before their preschool
years. I completely agree with 2.5 and up following a curriculum. But
before that age we are worrying about changing diapers, feeding, making
sure nobody is getting bit,nobody is falling, nobody is putting something
in their mouth, potty training, and all the other joys that come along
with a infants/toddlers. Then we have to try and find things that they can
do. That is nearly impossible as well. They want us to "teach" them but we
have limited resources to do this!

I am not familiar with any reasonable accreditation program
that requires that you do developmentally inappropriate things with
the kids. Our preschool does not have a 1yo program, but it does
have a 2yo program and is on the route to accreditation (our 3- and
4yo program is accredited, but we recently merged in another program
with 2yos, so that part of the program is not yet accredited but will
be). While there is a curriculum and projects and such in place
at all levels, that is completely transparent to the kids (as it
should be). They think they're just playing and having a grand
time. I don't see why the same couldn't be done for 1yos with a
reasonable accreditation standard. If the standard is that
developmentally inappropriate, that why seek accreditation to it?

Best wishes,
Ericka

Samijo wrote:
I teach the younger one-year-olds in our daycare.

My daughter is 17 months, so probably about the same age you're teaching.

we still have to do art projects with
them as well as large and small motor skills, read to them,
fingerplays, music time, and sensory projects.

Those are all things that IMHO could be done in an age-appropriate manner
with 12-24 month olds, assuming you had a sufficient number of caregivers
for the number of kids.

When I took this job I
thought it would be just playing with little kids all day long and
changing a few diapers.

Maybe you'd prefer a different job?

Seriously have you ever tried to sit a 1 year
old down and do an art project with them? I am not talking about
letting them play with crayons or markers but making an actual art
project. It is nearly impossible but it has to be done.

I don't see what's impossible about it. "Outside all of the leaves are
changing colors and falling off the trees. Today we're going to draw the
pretty leaves falling down." hand over crayons in autumn colors "Oh, look
what a pretty RED leaf you drew! It fell all the way down from here" point
to one end of squiggle and trace to the other end "to here!" From their
point of view, it *is* playing with crayons and markers, but in your
curriculum, it's learning to identify colors and learning about
nature/science. If you want something more elaborate, let them pick up
leaves outside (or from a pile of clean dry leaves you provide) and stick
them to contact paper, while you talk about the colors and shapes the
different leaves have.

But before that age we are worrying about changing
diapers, feeding, making sure nobody is getting bit,nobody is
falling, nobody is putting something in their mouth, potty training,
and all the other joys that come along with a infants/toddlers. Then
we have to try and find things that they can do.

I should hope you aren't wasting time trying to potty train your under-twos.
Seriously, though, kids that age can do a bunch of things. Caterpillar can
identify a dozen body parts in two languages (by pointing when you name
them), sit through a full reading of "Pickles the Fire Cat" (which is more
than I can say for me, and is IMHO not particularly age-appropriate), dance
to music, build with regular blocks or disassemble Duplo blocks (fine motor
skills), climb a slide ladder (gross motor skills), cooperate as you move
her hands through a fingerplay, and dig in sand (sensory).

Phoebe
--
yahoo address is unread; substitute gmail

"Samijo" wrote in message alkaboutparenting.com...
I am a Toddler 1 teacher in MO. That is funny to me. A toddler 1 teacher.
Someone who is actually trying to teacher a toddler. Read to a toddler. Do
art projects with a toddler. Am I crazy or what? I teach the younger
one-year-olds in our daycare. We are trying to become accredidated so that
means we have to teach them things. We have to have a "creative
curriculum". Yes this means that they do more learning through play. But
we still have to do art projects with them as well as large and small
motor skills, read to them, fingerplays, music time, and sensory projects.
When I took this job I thought it would be just playing with little kids
all day long and changing a few diapers. Seriously have you ever tried to
sit a 1 year old down and do an art project with them? I am not talking
about letting them play with crayons or markers but making an actual art
project. It is nearly impossible but it has to be done. What happen to a
daycare being a daycare and not a "school"? Shouldn't little children be
able to play and have fun vs. going to school before their preschool
years. I completely agree with 2.5 and up following a curriculum. But
before that age we are worrying about changing diapers, feeding, making
sure nobody is getting bit,nobody is falling, nobody is putting something
in their mouth, potty training, and all the other joys that come along
with a infants/toddlers. Then we have to try and find things that they can
do. That is nearly impossible as well. They want us to "teach" them but we
have limited resources to do this!

My son's day care does this, and I honestly don't see the big
deal. I think it's taken as read that when a thirteen-month-old
does a 'make a turkey' project, it just means scribbling on a
turkey-shaped piece of paper. It's just as much playing and
having fun as scribbling on rectangular paper, but with a little
more stimulation and connection to the world outside. Stuff that's
connected to the day or the season breaks up the day-to-day
routine a bit and gives the teachers and toddlers both something
more to talk about.

I never felt like the toddler curriculum was out of his grasp
or trying to teach him inappropriate skills - no one was trying
to get him to grasp arithmetic or decline verbs in Spanish.
He did leave that room knowing most of the standard colors in
Spanish, which I don't think was on the curriculum, it was
just something one of the teachers taught them for fun. I
think you may be seriously underestimating how much a toddler
can learn, or the day care you work for is taking the
'curriculum' word a little too seriously and is trying to make
them sit at desks and do homework or something.

Also, as a final note, of *course* you should be reading to them,
even in the absence of a curriculum. My son was actually much
more book oriented as a thirteen month old than he is right now
as a two year old, because he's more active now and has more
other options for amusement. Many young toddlers love books,
although obviously not all.

Beth

In article
outparenting.com,
"Samijo" wrote:

I am a Toddler 1 teacher in MO. That is funny to me. A toddler 1 teacher.
Someone who is actually trying to teacher a toddler. Read to a toddler. Do
art projects with a toddler. Am I crazy or what? I teach the younger
one-year-olds in our daycare. We are trying to become accredidated so that
means we have to teach them things.
snip
When I took this job I thought it would be just playing with little kids
all day long and changing a few diapers.

Er, are you telling us that you have no qualifications in child care? Because
it certainly sounds like it.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

Haven't you had any training in developmentally appropriate practice
whatsoever? I'm used to a lead teacher being required to have at least 2
years of child development coursework (usually an AA in child development or
childcare), and an assistant teacher having at least 100 hours a year of
training in the area.

There are TONS of books on amazon of age-appropriate activities for toddlers
(and even for infants) in a group care setting. Or, if you have a local
college which has any sort of human sciences department, their library will
have many. There is also a Toddler edition of Mailbox Magazine, which I
strongly recommend. www.teachers.net/chatboards/mentors has an early
childhood chatboard, which, while many of the teachers are pre-K level, also
has some younger age group teachers, and there are many preK websites out
there, some of which go down to the toddler and two's level.

Teaching very young children IS playing, feeding, and changing diapers-but,
in a good care setting (including a home) these are done in ways which will
help develop the young brain. In a poor one, they're done in a fashion which
hopefully meets a child's physical needs, but not necessarily their
intellectual and developmental ones.

I now teach in an inner city public school. Our average 5 year old enters
with a 2 yr old's skill level on language development and significant lags
in many areas. No disability, just poor care. The children who have had
parents at home who tried to stimulate them (and took advantage of the
resources available) or who had good childcare providers are ready for
kindergarten, eager to learn, and are more successful throughout at least
the next few years (usually, with a lot of work, we can get the ones who
have had poor early childhood backgrounds caught up by the time they
complete 6th).