When did daycares become "schools"?

In article _ABgb.705094$uu5.115301@sccrnsc04, Ruth Baltopoulos says...

"Banty" wrote:

, Nevermind says...
: sniiip We need better and more easily available info
: on what kind of stranger care is best for most kids at 3
months, 12
: months, 2 years, etc. You hear that kids do just fine in
daycare if
: it's "high quality"--what does that mean specifically?
:
: Stranger care is an intersting concept. How is it
organized? Is there a number
: of people lined up as a relay race, such that, as soon as
the children and their
: parents get acquainted with them, a new person comes in?
Do the children go to
: a new place every month, or do the new unaquainted people
come in? Or does it
: differ by stranger-care facility?

Stranger care; now there is a new and totally tasteless term
for child care
--
Ruth B -- Remove the blinders to send email

Oh, it's been out there for some time from anti-daycare people. "Little Johhhny
should be cared for by a looooving muh-uh-ahem *parent* instead of
laaanguishing in STRANGER-care."

Banty

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:29:35 GMT, Ruth Baltopoulos wrote:
"user" wrote:

: We have a few friends who use daycare, and most usually
refer
: to them as "school", even when there's absolutely no
structured
: activities beyond snack and nap time. I know that in at
least
: one case, the parents do so because of their guilt at not
being
: home with their kids - the mother told me outright that it
makes
: her feel better. I can't speak for the others.

I assume that you are referring to a daycare center? Is it
really possible to entertain a group of children with
absolutely no structure other than snack and naptime? Could
it be possible that the program has a child driven day, with
an underlying structure that is not curriculum based?
Possibly flexible enough that it isn't overtly noticeable?
It would seem to me that any group setting with children and
'absolutely no structured activities' would be an exercise
in chaos


I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "child driven day",
but if it refers to children wandering around the rooms,
randomly playing with toys, until called to order for
snacks, stories, or naps, then I guess that would cover
it. ;-)

I went to college whose primary purpose was the
education of teachers. As such, there were a half
dozen or so day care, nursery school, and pre-school
groups all in the building where I worked. Personally,
I could never tell the difference between the day care
and nursery schools, other than the length of time the
kids stayed. The preschool kids came into my
computer lab once a week, with worksheets that
described the actions they were to perform with some
of the educational software. I always thought it was
a bit silly to have the kids use a computer program to
help them learn that the same volume of water, for example,
poured into a fat container and a skinny container
would rise to different levels, instead of just
giving them a bucket and a tumbler, and letting them
try it themselves. ;-) But, if nothing else,
the preschool had some level of academic orientation.

I do agree that working parents make certain choices based
on guilt. I am not sure the use of the word school is one
of them My feeling is that this usage is based more on
parental peer pressure, and children seeing other young
children going to 'school' and wanting their experience to
feel special. It is also an easier and quicker term than
'family child care' or 'daycare center'.

: One thing I've noticed around here is that nobody seems
to use
: the term "Nursery School" anymore. ;-) For me, the usual
scheme of
: things was Nursery School for the 2+ to 4 year old set,
then
: Preschool at 4+. But with the understanding that Nursery
School
: is almost strictly a socialization experience, with no
academic
: overtones. Preschool, on the other hand, would start work

Nursery School seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur.
Everyone that I know refers to 'preschool', and the
experience starts at 2.9 hereabouts.

Maybe it's a regional thing. When we were looking
for a place for my almost 3 yr old this year, most of
the groups for his age range advertised themselves as
nursery schools. "Preschools" were invariably
for 4 or 5 year olds.

P. Tierney wrote in message
newstsgb.510823$Oz4.369466@rwcrnsc54...
Is it just my area, or are more and more parents who send their 1-3
year olds to daycares refer to them as "schools"? If so, why?

Daycare is merely caring for your child, often times with no structured
activities to learn different skills (playing is learning though). School
otoh, has a structured day, often times have "lessons" that they focus on
and some of them start teaching numbers and ABC's and calendar. Most have
craft projects that they do during the day. Some parents switch over at
around 1-2 years old to start preparing them for real preschool or
kindergarten. I don't think of preschool starting at age four though.
Preschool here can start at 2 years of age. Often times preschool is only
2-3 days a week with only a 2-3 hours at a time. Daycare is more providing
care to those that work and will often times have after 5 o'clock care. And
finally, sometimes kids want to feel big and think that the daycare they go
to is school, so parents call it that. No biggie, imo.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

"Donna Metler" wrote:

A child
with only the half-day, three day a week preschool I had as a child would
be
seen as being "under-prepared".

Gawd, that's scary.


P.
Tierney

"toypup" wrote in message
newsHsgb.696498$Ho3.153580@sccrnsc03...

"P. Tierney" wrote in message
newstsgb.510823$Oz4.369466@rwcrnsc54...
Is it just my area, or are more and more parents who send their 1-3
year olds to daycares refer to them as "schools"? If so, why? Are
the parents trying to make themselves feel better about where their
kids are, or are the daycares trying to pump themselves up in some way?

I don't get it. I've never heard a parent with a similar aged child
at home saying that she/he was "homeschooling" their kid, so I'm
wondering why daycares, or the parents who send them there, do
the same. Or, maybe they don't where you live. But in my mind,
"school" begins at preschool, which is around age four. LMK what
it's like to others. Thx.

Because there is a difference in focus between the two and they do have
preschool for very young kids. My friend took her child out of daycare
and
placed her in preschool at 18 months. I think the difference was the
emphasis on academics and learning. The child would come home with
finished
art projects and such, but she didn't do the projects herself, obviously.
Mostly, they cut out a shape for her and she scribbled over it or
decorated
it with stickers. My friend's reason for doing it was because she wanted
her daughter to be stimulated academically. At the daycare, she was just
playing. There was no attempt at teaching her anything like they would in
preschool. I happen to think kids get a lot out of playing at that age.
Needless to say, DS (2yo) is still in daycare.

Interesting. Though I have to wonder, at that age, if how large the
difference is between "teaching" and "playing". When my child does
the type of "art projects" (scribbling, mostly), that's "playing" to me,
even though learning is going on (as it always is).

It would be interesting, to me, to record the actions of the
kids and adults in a two year old "daycare" versus a "school"
and see just how different their days really are.


P.
Tierney

"Naomi Pardue" wrote in message
...
Is it just my area, or are more and more parents who send their 1-3
year olds to daycares refer to them as "schools"?

At that age, I think it's more for the kids. Little kids like to think
themselves 'grown-up' and 'going to school.'

For the slightely older preschool kids (and would include the 3 years
olds, and
probably the older 2's as well), any decent daycare is going to include
some
preschool-type curriculum anyway, so the line between a 'daycare' and a
'preschool' once you get past the infant stage is pretty vague.

That was my assumption about daycares as well. I have no first
hand knowledge, but I always assumed that even an average one
would have developmental toys and adults who interaction with
the kids in a way that isn't all that different, at this age, from
that of a teacher and a student.



P. Tierney

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
In article Dtsgb.510823$Oz4.369466@rwcrnsc54,
"P. Tierney" wrote:

Is it just my area, or are more and more parents who send their 1-3
year olds to daycares refer to them as "schools"?

Are you in the US?

Yes.

I ask because it took years to wean our (American)
minister away from calling University "school". Presumably it's a word
that
in American English is increasing in scope to cover any place where you
send
your child for education and enrichment.

Sorry about that! ;-)


P.
Tierney

Ruth Baltopoulos wrote in message
I have pondered upon what factors might have precipitated
the push toward schooling at a younger and younger age, and
the above explanation sounds reasonable. There are children
in my town beginning a half-day Kindergarten program with
*three years* of full-day preschool under their belts! It
seems excessive and makes me wonder exactly what might be
new for them in Kindergarten.

It's the parents. Today's parents have to have the smartest, gifted, avid
readers, and know how to read by age two, best kid on the block. Parent's
today can't seem to understand that play is learning. Most parent's push
their kids at an early age to learn and know everything before they even
enter school. Most parents today overschedule their kids, they have to have
piano lessons, soccer, swimming lessons at such an early age to prove that
they have the best kid. It's evidenced even in this newsgroup. The post on
what books to buy my four month old should clue you in that parents today
are pushing their kids. Lots of children are just not ready for it and are
losing out on their childhood because parents have to have the smartest kid.
It's pretty sad, imo.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

"user" wrote

Nursery School seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur.
Everyone that I know refers to 'preschool', and the
experience starts at 2.9 hereabouts.

Maybe it's a regional thing. When we were looking
for a place for my almost 3 yr old this year, most of
the groups for his age range advertised themselves as
nursery schools. "Preschools" were invariably
for 4 or 5 year olds.

I've not heard it used in my region in some time either.


P. Tierney

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:11:46 GMT, P. Tierney wrote:

"user" wrote

Nursery School seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur.
Everyone that I know refers to 'preschool', and the
experience starts at 2.9 hereabouts.

Maybe it's a regional thing. When we were looking
for a place for my almost 3 yr old this year, most of
the groups for his age range advertised themselves as
nursery schools. "Preschools" were invariably
for 4 or 5 year olds.

I've not heard it used in my region in some time either.

I've always suspected that upstate NY was in a time
warp, and I guess this confirms it. ;-)