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Bad news for liars, good news for kids



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 8th 08, 08:23 PM posted to misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health
Debbee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default A Better Mousetrap for the Consumers

On Jan 7, 10:32*pm, Mark wrote:
l).

Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and
thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only
state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere.
Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its
[wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James
Dean, has its Jan.

None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia
have lost all sensible thought. *It just means that these places
tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just
stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at
each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say.

Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have
been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought.


Mark, I still haven't made up my mind on this controversial subject of
vaccines; due to the fact that special ingredient is still contained
in flu shots. However,
what I would like to propose to all of you "scientific minds" (as you
so
like to claim you have), is that consumers know what exactly is in
the vaccine that they are getting so that they can make a responsible
choice with their physician whether to take the vaccine or not. I'd
like
to see a Material Data Safety Sheet on every ingredient in the
vaccine,
and some accountability from doctors such as yourself, so if you
propose
that XXXX vaccine is the the right drug of choice, that you are held
accountable
for your actions if the person were to die or get sick from that
vaccine. Keeping
in the same lines, I'd like to see a doctor have to put his
malpractice insurance
information on a sheet, given to the consumer PRIOR to the doctor or
nurse giving
the vaccine, so there is some kind of documentation that will assume
100% responsibility
that if in the future that this vaccine contains dangerous chemicals
that you, or your employer
will take full responsibility. Along the lines that chemical
manufacturer's must do today, naming
the ingredients of their product. As a consumer advocate, unless you
are willing to "put up," then
instead of making the nasty cracks you have made against individuals
that do not share your
opinion, a great option for you would be to be adult enough and
professional enough not to make
the cracks you have made towards the consumers you have named, as if
you feel you are way
better than they are.

Consumers have the right to question your credentials, your ethics,
and your opinions. You aren't
"all that and a bag of potato chips too." All products that consumers
buy should have some kind
of warranty, and vaccines should be included. What a wonderful
opportunity for a consumer group,
like Quackwatch that openly states that they are to want to protect
the public, and get themselves involved
for making sure that a MSDS sheet is available for the consumer, and
making doctors like yourself have to take
potential risks. When you, and the rest of your scientific minded
individuals are willing to put up this kind of
documentation to the consumer, let me know. Then, only then, will
those with "scientific minds" that claim
that vaccines are the right choice, will be accountable for their
actions.

Would it be possible that there was another magic ingredient in those
vaccines that the public is not aware of?

Kentucky? isn't that where Ken Ham set up camp, after he left
Australia?

By the way, who funded that study? List the company, and those that
supported it.

Thank you.


  #12  
Old January 8th 08, 09:57 PM posted to misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health
The One True Zhen Jue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 180
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

On Jan 8, 9:46*am, "t" wrote:
"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message

... State's autism rises despite vaccine change

No vacs for my kids thank you.



No kids for you; thank you for not breeding!

And there is nothing you can do to change
that.


Yup, some chose a life of celibacy, Tools had celibacy thrust upon
him.

Now this is the part where you get to blather, so please do.


  #13  
Old January 8th 08, 10:00 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Peter Moran[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

"Carole" wrote in message
...

"Peter Moran" wrote in message
...
"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote:
State's autism rises despite vaccine change

snip


And yes, I know that the second story contains the idiotic statement
"thimerosal -- nearly half of which is made of ethylmercury". I can
only assume that the "journalist" studied chemistry at the University
of Kentucky (if at all).

Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and
thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only
state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere.
Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its
[wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James
Dean, has its Jan.

None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia
have lost all sensible thought. It just means that these places
tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just
stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at
each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say.

Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have
been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Let us
pity these souls and take the high road. Surely, they are nincompoops
and aggressive asses...they can't help it. Somewhere along the
evolutionary line they missed the boat, the Good Ship Lolli-Sense.

They can't help what they are. I think the best course is to tolerate
their rants in much the same way an adult will watch a fit-throwing 2-
year-old bang his head on the floor: you aren't going to make me get
you another popsicle, and the sooner your head hurts, the sooner you
will realize it.


Yes, we much-maligned "naysayers" have earned a little triumphalism, I
think.

Most people don't need any depth of knowledge about science or medicine.
We can't blame them for that ---that is why we have scientists and why
we
have doctors, just as we have other kinds of specialists to build our

homes
and fly our planes.


But the problem is the people become disempowered and aren't allowed to
think for themselves. They are taught to defer to "experts" and "reliable
sources" for everything which leaves them vulnerable.


I cannot agree that this is so. Most societies work hard at having a
well-educated population. And the wise person does understand their own
limitations. When I have a urological or orthopoedic problem I defer to
experts in those fields.

People should think for themselves because the experts aren't always right
and often get used by vested interests to push for dubious purposes.


That is true, but it applies equally (at minimum) to those pushing
alternative theories and products (including yourself). Whence the
assumption that they can be trusted ? Any decision still has to be based
upon the available evidence, and if you dismiss the evidence of one side as
always tainted you are simply responding to your own biases. Mostly
alt.med is the leavings of the mainstream, theories that have been well
tried out and found wanting. Do you ever take the pains to try and
understand why they have been dropped?



What we can fault some for is the arrogant assurance that their own
half-baked medical beliefs are undoubtedly correct and their refusal to

even
look at overwhelmingly contrary evidence. The thiomerosal-autism things

is
only the latest of many dearly held alt theories that have been proved
wrong, but that doesn't seem to register either..


I haven't got "arrogant assurance", what I've got is reasoned belief
rather
than taking at face value everything from "experts" and "reliable sources"


But you are taking heaps of matters "at face value" about cell salts.
Science offers you ways of ensuring that making sure you are not fooling
yourself (meaning that the effects you think you observe are placebo-
related). The main difference between the mainstream and alternative
medicine lies therein.

PM



who are, either wittingly or unwittingly, serving the interests of various
cartels, where science is twisted and incomplete with all concept of the
ether being removed.
In a world where knowledge is power, they prefer to keep the people in the
dark -- so much easier to control that way.





Carole
www.cellsalts.net


PM










  #14  
Old January 8th 08, 10:06 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Peter Bowditch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,038
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

Mark wrote:

On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote:
State's autism rises despite vaccine change


snip


And yes, I know that the second story contains the idiotic statement
"thimerosal -- nearly half of which is made of ethylmercury". I can
only assume that the "journalist" studied chemistry at the University
of Kentucky (if at all).


Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and
thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only
state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere.
Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its
[wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James
Dean, has its Jan.


Hey, I wasn't demeaning everyone with a degree from U of K. The
university that awarded me the two certificates hanging on my office
wall was the first real university in the world to introduce the
teaching of chiropractic as if it is some sort of medical science.

http://www.chiro.mq.edu.au/

Now that I have stopped retching I will make one of those popular
culture references which so confuse some of the participants he

Jimmy Dean
Rock on

And seeing that this story is all over the media:

I read the paper and I hear the news.
I search the heavens vainly for clues.


None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia
have lost all sensible thought. It just means that these places
tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just
stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at
each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say.

Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have
been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Let us
pity these souls and take the high road. Surely, they are nincompoops
and aggressive asses...they can't help it. Somewhere along the
evolutionary line they missed the boat, the Good Ship Lolli-Sense.


And where do we go from here?
Which is the way that's clear?

They can't help what they are. I think the best course is to tolerate
their rants in much the same way an adult will watch a fit-throwing 2-
year-old bang his head on the floor: you aren't going to make me get
you another popsicle, and the sooner your head hurts, the sooner you
will realize it.



--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
  #15  
Old January 8th 08, 10:31 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Peter Moran[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids

"Carole" wrote in message
...

"Peter Moran" wrote in message
...
"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote:
State's autism rises despite vaccine change

snip


And yes, I know that the second story contains the idiotic statement
"thimerosal -- nearly half of which is made of ethylmercury". I can
only assume that the "journalist" studied chemistry at the University
of Kentucky (if at all).

Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and
thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only
state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere.
Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its
[wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James
Dean, has its Jan.

None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia
have lost all sensible thought. It just means that these places
tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just
stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering at
each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say.

Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have
been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Let us
pity these souls and take the high road. Surely, they are nincompoops
and aggressive asses...they can't help it. Somewhere along the
evolutionary line they missed the boat, the Good Ship Lolli-Sense.

They can't help what they are. I think the best course is to tolerate
their rants in much the same way an adult will watch a fit-throwing 2-
year-old bang his head on the floor: you aren't going to make me get
you another popsicle, and the sooner your head hurts, the sooner you
will realize it.


Yes, we much-maligned "naysayers" have earned a little triumphalism, I
think.

Most people don't need any depth of knowledge about science or medicine.
We can't blame them for that ---that is why we have scientists and why
we
have doctors, just as we have other kinds of specialists to build our

homes
and fly our planes.


But the problem is the people become disempowered and aren't allowed to
think for themselves. They are taught to defer to "experts" and "reliable
sources" for everything which leaves them vulnerable.


I cannot agree that this is so. Most societies work hard at having a
well-educated population. And the wise person does understand their own
limitations. When I have a urological or orthopoedic problem I defer to
experts in those fields.

People should think for themselves because the experts aren't always right
and often get used by vested interests to push for dubious purposes.


That is true, but it applies equally (at minimum) to those pushing
alternative theories and products (including yourself). Whence the
assumption that they can be trusted ? Any decision still has to be based
upon the available evidence, and if you dismiss the evidence of one side as
always tainted you are simply responding to your own biases.

Alt.med is mostly alt.med is the leavings of the mainstream, theories that
have been well
tried out and found wanting. Do you ever take the pains to try and
understand why they have been dropped?



What we can fault some for is the arrogant assurance that their own
half-baked medical beliefs are undoubtedly correct and their refusal to

even
look at overwhelmingly contrary evidence. The thiomerosal-autism things

is
only the latest of many dearly held alt theories that have been proved
wrong, but that doesn't seem to register either..


I haven't got "arrogant assurance", what I've got is reasoned belief
rather
than taking at face value everything from "experts" and "reliable sources"


But you are taking heaps of matters "at face value" about cell salts.
Science offers you ways of ensuring that making sure you are not fooling
yourself (meaning that the effects you think you observe are actually
placebo- related). In fact that is the main difference between the
mainstream and alt.med --not allowing yourself to be fooled for long.

You are aware that everything and anything has been credited with healing
powers at some time in history? Ever wondered why that should be so, and
why no other field of science behaves this way?

PM



who are, either wittingly or unwittingly, serving the interests of various
cartels, where science is twisted and incomplete with all concept of the
ether being removed.
In a world where knowledge is power, they prefer to keep the people in the
dark -- so much easier to control that way.





Carole
www.cellsalts.net


PM










  #16  
Old January 9th 08, 01:35 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids


"Peter Moran" wrote in message
...
"Carole" wrote in message
...

"Peter Moran" wrote in message
...
"Mark" wrote in message

...
On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote:
State's autism rises despite vaccine change

snip


And yes, I know that the second story contains the idiotic statement
"thimerosal -- nearly half of which is made of ethylmercury". I can
only assume that the "journalist" studied chemistry at the

University
of Kentucky (if at all).

Having earned my medical degree from the University of Kentucky (and
thankfully, never having encountered "Dr." Boyd Hayley), I can only
state the obvious: nutjobs can crawl out of the woodwork anywhere.
Aus has its Carole, Kentucky has its Boyd...even Costa Rica has its
[wipe the slime from my keyboard] Ilena, and Indiana, home of James
Dean, has its Jan.

None of this means that Kentucky, Indiana, Costa Rica or Australia
have lost all sensible thought. It just means that these places
tolerate the cranks and the "problem children" rather than just
stuffing them in a place where they would be relegated to jabbering

at
each other ad nauseum...we're a compassionate bunch, I should say.

Let us celebrate our tolerance of those unfortunate enough to have
been born lacking the gene that codes for rational thought. Let us
pity these souls and take the high road. Surely, they are

nincompoops
and aggressive asses...they can't help it. Somewhere along the
evolutionary line they missed the boat, the Good Ship Lolli-Sense.

They can't help what they are. I think the best course is to

tolerate
their rants in much the same way an adult will watch a fit-throwing

2-
year-old bang his head on the floor: you aren't going to make me get
you another popsicle, and the sooner your head hurts, the sooner you
will realize it.

Yes, we much-maligned "naysayers" have earned a little triumphalism, I
think.

Most people don't need any depth of knowledge about science or

medicine.
We can't blame them for that ---that is why we have scientists and why
we
have doctors, just as we have other kinds of specialists to build our

homes
and fly our planes.


But the problem is the people become disempowered and aren't allowed to
think for themselves. They are taught to defer to "experts" and

"reliable
sources" for everything which leaves them vulnerable.


I cannot agree that this is so. Most societies work hard at having a
well-educated population. And the wise person does understand their own
limitations. When I have a urological or orthopoedic problem I defer to
experts in those fields.


I believe in education, the more the better.
However, what has happened today, in our society, is that education has been
hijacked by vested interests, same with research. All forms of science are
now corrupted. And the problem is that most of the educated ones just go
along with the system.


People should think for themselves because the experts aren't always

right
and often get used by vested interests to push for dubious purposes.


That is true, but it applies equally (at minimum) to those pushing
alternative theories and products (including yourself).


That is true, there are plenty is charlatans and misguided people in
alternative medicine.

Whence the
assumption that they can be trusted ? Any decision still has to be

based
upon the available evidence, and if you dismiss the evidence of one side

as
always tainted you are simply responding to your own biases. Mostly
alt.med is the leavings of the mainstream, theories that have been well
tried out and found wanting. Do you ever take the pains to try and
understand why they have been dropped?


The reason some alternative remedies are dropped isn't because they don't
work, but rather they don't fit the mindset of the ruling elite. Anything
that challenges their supremacy is a threat and put down.
Why would you assume that because therapies are dropped because they don't
work?




What we can fault some for is the arrogant assurance that their own
half-baked medical beliefs are undoubtedly correct and their refusal to

even
look at overwhelmingly contrary evidence. The thiomerosal-autism

things
is
only the latest of many dearly held alt theories that have been proved
wrong, but that doesn't seem to register either..


I haven't got "arrogant assurance", what I've got is reasoned belief
rather
than taking at face value everything from "experts" and "reliable

sources"

But you are taking heaps of matters "at face value" about cell salts.
Science offers you ways of ensuring that making sure you are not fooling
yourself (meaning that the effects you think you observe are placebo-
related). The main difference between the mainstream and alternative
medicine lies therein.


I don't cellsalts at face value. I've tried different alternative remedies,
but cellsalts delivers what it claims.
Also cellsalts are scientific. There are plenty of studies to show that
minerals are needed for vital functions and general wellbeing.
The difference between you and me is that if I feel a bit anxious I will
take calcium supplements, whereas you will take valium. If I get underarm
odour I will take silica tablets, but you will spray on some deodorant, etc.
Do you think that valium is an essential ingredient needed by the body, or
that underarm deodorant is anything but a coverup?

Carole
www.cellsalts.net



PM



who are, either wittingly or unwittingly, serving the interests of

various
cartels, where science is twisted and incomplete with all concept of the
ether being removed.
In a world where knowledge is power, they prefer to keep the people in

the
dark -- so much easier to control that way.





Carole
www.cellsalts.net


PM












  #17  
Old January 9th 08, 01:40 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids


"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:JlKgj.1888$xA6.78@trndny09...



But the problem is the people become disempowered and aren't allowed to
think for themselves.


Bull****. Everyone one of your posts, as stupid as they are, are proof
that you, and everyone else is "allowed" to think for themselves.

If there was any form of "thought control" websites such as Whale.to,
Newstarget, and their ilk, would not exist. By their very presence and
accessibility by anyone with a computer proves that there is no thought
control.


They are taught to defer to "experts" and "reliable
sources" for everything which leaves them vulnerable.


No one is taught that in any school I am familiar with. Listen to
experts, people who have studied and researched subjects, and do your
own research.

If you reject all experts, then the next time you fly in an airplane,
ask the guy sitting next to you to replace the pilot, since pilots are
experts in flying planes.

People should think for themselves because the experts aren't always

right
and often get used by vested interests to push for dubious purposes.


When facts are short, use a conspiracy to fill the void (between the

ears).

Conspiracies do exist and go on regularly in business. Every meeting behind
closed doors, every strategy worked out to beat the opposition, or sell a
product that people don't really need could be called a conspiracy.
Unfortunately, there are many unscrupulous people in this world, and many of
them are very ambitious and will use any means to get ahead, fair or foul.

Don't you believe it?
Explain why do you think business is all above board, and why there aren't
deceptions going on that the public isn't generally aware.


Carole
www.cellsalts.net




  #18  
Old January 9th 08, 01:47 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids


"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:3XKgj.4452$vX6.2095@trndny05...



Hey I resent that ... just watch who you call a nutjob.


Mark was only going by what you post.

There's nothing unscientific about cellsalts, they've been a regular

part of
naturapathy and alternative medicine for 150 years.


Naturapathy and alternative medicine are unscientific.

All you've got is a type of science that forbids innovation and

suppresses
therapies that can't be patented.


Not so. It is called real science.


Sorry mate. "Real science" has undergone a transformation in the last 100
years, and many lines of research have had the chop through reasons of
"national security".
National security is a coverall to wipe out anything that the powers that be
don't want the public to know about, for whatever reason, not necessarily
anything to do with national security, often just inconvenience or a wish to
control information.
Science as we know it is a pale imitation of what it should be and would
have been if the powers that be hadn't got their greasy hands on it and
written out so many concepts. Eg, the oil / fossil fuel crisis is an
engineered situation. Long ago there would have been invented free energy
available to the world, but you can't charge people for that. Tesla had a
plan to provide it to the public but Morgan gave it the chop, saying that he
couldn't make any money out of it.

But people like you can't understand this concept, of a conspiracy so far
reaching that it encompasses every avenue of human endeavour. You compare
this and that and say its crazy. I say, is it and why?

Carole
www.cellsalts.net





  #19  
Old January 9th 08, 02:33 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Jan Drew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,707
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids


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Copyright © 2008 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or
redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior
written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or
delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.


Copyright © 2008 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.



  #20  
Old January 9th 08, 02:38 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Jan Drew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,707
Default Bad news for liars, good news for kids


"Mark" wrote:

snip

On Jan 8, 12:09 am, Peter Bowditch wrote:
State's autism rises despite vaccine change


snip

"Dr." Boyd Hayley"


Who???
 




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