LaVonne

LaVonne,
In a prior post you recently chastized someone for mentioning "unamed
individuals". I have some names for you:

Grace Nalepa (Former CPS worker - chalk one up for the good guys)
Ruth Barrese (CPS Supervisor - Retired)
John Livense (CPS Line Manager)
Ed Michaels (Foster Care Manager)
Jennifer Rosen-Gordon (AAG)
Sheila Little-Fletcher (AAG)
Sheila Gibson-Manning (Judge)

And last, but certainly not least (and the most evil of them all), a U of
M grad who you should know if you really are involved in the Child
Protection Industry:

William Ladd (LGAL)

You want to get into specifics? Try me, I can outdo you at every turn.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:02:17 -0400, "Tulkas"
wrote:

LaVonne,
In a prior post you recently chastized someone for mentioning "unamed
individuals". I have some names for you:

Grace Nalepa (Former CPS worker - chalk one up for the good guys)
Ruth Barrese (CPS Supervisor - Retired)
John Livense (CPS Line Manager)
Ed Michaels (Foster Care Manager)
Jennifer Rosen-Gordon (AAG)
Sheila Little-Fletcher (AAG)
Sheila Gibson-Manning (Judge)

And last, but certainly not least (and the most evil of them all), a
U of
M grad who you should know if you really are involved in the Child
Protection Industry:

William Ladd (LGAL)

You want to get into specifics? Try me, I can outdo you at every
turn.

Outdo? As in who murders children most often? Who abuses most? Who
neglects most? And, just for the humor, who lies the most in these
newsgroups on child welfare?

Start he

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...oogle+Searc h

End, never.

I think you are going to be a little while catching up, but we'll be
happy to watch.

Besides, the problem isn't who is named, but that Fern has a habit of,
like a little smart assed, but insecure jr high school girl, throwing
out silly statements pretending she knows something others don't.

She's an arrested child.

But thanks for the names. Some have done yoeman work against the like
of child abusers who occasionally visit here, apparently....or are you
too a teener that claims you know something, your special 'secret,'
and just dare the others to guess what it is you know that makes you
so superior and COOOOOOOOL?

So, I've given you a chance to show off. Go ahead. Tell us about the
nefarious you have named.

Kane

pohakuyakokane,

I'll sum it up for you.

We faced a false allegation of child abuse (btw my wife and I DO NOT
believe in spanking).

We thought it was a joke, and that it would all go away when a
state-trained CPS worker investigated and would clearly see that it was
false.

Enter Naelpa, a 48-year-old rookie. She never made any collateral contact
except for our pediatrician, who asked her to leave his office after
arguing with her about my family.

She took one son. Enter Ladd, Little-Fletcher, Rosen-Gordon, and
Gibson-Manning. They took the rest with absolutely no testimony and TPR
was filed. Want proof, I have the transcripts.

Barrese was Nalepa's supervisor, and Lievense was Barrese's. Their
complete disregard for process, policy, and law allowed Nalepa to run
through my family unchecked.

Then there's Michael's, the foster care manager who tried to have evidence
of our absolute innocence removed from our file. Michaels was having an
affair with Nalepa.

We won when the Ombudsman intervened, along with several elected officials
and the head Judge of Family Court.

But the damage was done. Our family was torn apart for three months while
our children languished in foster care with my wife and I allowed only
limited visitation.

Since that time I have helped to pass bills into law, I am currently
working with representatives to draft amendments to current laws and
introduce entirely new ones, and have seen Nalepa hit the unemployment
line.

Now, you can claim I'm lying or putting my spin on it or tactfully
ommiting key facts. Most people do, and that doesn't bother me a bit.
The reason that these kind of stories don't get out are twofold. First,
innocent parents who have been through the system are so frightened when
(if) they win that they don't want to draw any more retribution down on
them. Secondly, the news has an unwritten policy of "if it bleeds it
leads". A news rep told my wife "if none of your children died, it's not
news."

So, call me a liar, I expect it. You want facts, I have all the
documentation to prove everything I claim. Some key documents are up on
the internet already (http://www.family-bond.net). This site is under
development and there is MUCH left to put up there.

If you really think you know your stuff, let's talk process and law. Ladd
won't even debate me. I can run circles around anyone who claims the
system works.

I'll refrain from inferring anything about yourself (as you've done me),
and I will give you a chance to present some type of an argument if you
can keep from making it sound like a temper-tantrum.

http://www.google.com/search?q=foste...n&lr=&ie=UTF-8

http://www.abolishadoption.com/KillerAdopters.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...+child&spell=1

Nice website Mark. I can't wait until you put up the rest of your
documents.

Eventually, I will have a site such as yours, of my own. And boy will
some jaws hit the floor. lol.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:27:52 -0400, "Tulkas"
wrote:

....Some thought provoking information and claims. ....

And I respond...why the heck is this in alt parenting spanking only
and NOT also in alt.support.child-protective-services, where it
belongs?

I'll cross post it now.

pohakuyakokane,

I'll sum it up for you.

We faced a false allegation of child abuse (btw my wife and I DO NOT
believe in spanking).

That's nice. I don't believe in abuse...and I don't believe in
spanking. As far as I know, and I DO know, spanking is not illegal as
a crime, or a civil matter in any state in this country. Surely you
weren't charged with "spanking" were you?

Not important, don't answer unless you have something important to you
you wish to share.

We thought it was a joke, and that it would all go away when a
state-trained CPS worker investigated and would clearly see that it
was
false.

Enter Naelpa, a 48-year-old rookie. She never made any collateral
contact
except for our pediatrician, who asked her to leave his office after
arguing with her about my family.

She took one son. Enter Ladd, Little-Fletcher, Rosen-Gordon, and
Gibson-Manning. They took the rest with absolutely no testimony and
TPR
was filed. Want proof, I have the transcripts.

I'd like to see them. I presume you are out of the woods, or I must
insist you withhold this information from public view. This is NOT a
secure site, and I have strong reason to believe one of the anti CPS
crowd here (yes, really) reported a family that came here for help, to
their state's CPS office. I don't think you have any idea what you are
dealing with in this forum.

But I must ask: TPR filing without offering services, without a show
cause hearing? Strange place you live, if that is so. Michigan I think
you say somewhere in this piece. I'll have to do some research.

Are you up on their policy manual(s) by now?

Barrese was Nalepa's supervisor, and Lievense was Barrese's. Their
complete disregard for process, policy, and law allowed Nalepa to run
through my family unchecked.

You are probably speculating more than having proof they did that. Not
saying they didn't, but I'm more interested your EXPERIENCE, than what
you think someone did, or even what a third party told you happened.

There is no such thing as any formal, separate "process." That IS in
policy. Even "practice" is not codified, except in policy..something
I've been chipping away at CPS about for many years...since 1991 or
so, as I recall. I want the major graduate schools of social work to
come up with a grand manual of standard practice in child welfare.
It's too fractured, with too many opinions by too many separate
sources. Some good, some total crackpots who happen to get into
positions of power.

Then there's Michael's, the foster care manager who tried to have
evidence
of our absolute innocence removed from our file.

No! Really?

(An aside, if you don't mind. There isn't any such thing as separate
workers that do specialties foster supervision and management to the
exclusion of client casecarrying. I have that on good authority when I
claimed the same thing that I don't know CPS field practice.

Seems you and I have been seeing the same up to date movie, and my
opponent here, a jackass that thinks he an expert, is watching old
reruns.)

Sorry..couldn't resist...back to your story.

Hokay...so this Michaels tried to illegally alter a case record. If
you got proof boy is that ass in a sling. Check your state statutes.
It won't likely be in policy. I hope it's a felony and you charge him,
if you have sufficient proof to convince a DA.

Michaels was having an
affair with Nalepa.

Conspiracy? Sounds like you ran into criminals. That isn't the rule.

But remember, an "affair" is not a criminal offense, and is NOT
indicative of criminal intent. It's an aside.

His messing about with your file IS however. Ask an attorny in your
state if this is not true, or look it up as I suggested.

Not that telling me matters, but as a courtesy, how did you find out
that he tried to alter your case record? That is a very very dangerous
thing for anyone to do. Traces, if it was on computer, are there in
backup files, and archives...often paper that is stored. Kinda a dumb
one I suppose.

We won when the Ombudsman intervened, along with several elected
officials
and the head Judge of Family Court.

Excellent..despite the skullduggery of two or more you prevailed by
the system doing its work. Good for them. Good for you.

And when you get around to telling me CPS DOESN'T WORK, kindly recall
what you just said...assuming you meant, as you have said, "the
system" doesn't work.

It does. It just hurts like hell some times. But without
it....ooooeeee would we be in trouble...back to the jungle and the
strong eating the weak.

But the damage was done.

Yes, and you have two wonderful opportunities. One of for financial
recompense. And the other to work toward tuning the system...that is
REFORM as it's meant to be done. Unless of course you adhere to the
nonsense that it must be destroyed. Then you are talking with the
wrong person.

I don't LIKE CPS. NEVER HAVE...but I do NOT have a replacement
solution that I know isn't full of holes a mile wide...like let's turn
it all over to the police. You might have faired far worse in an LEO
based system.

Our family was torn apart for three months while
our children languished in foster care with my wife and I allowed
only
limited visitation.

Then you may well have a case for extreme harm and more. I'd look at
it if I were you.

How are you treating the three month event now though? Making much of
it with your kids and each other to keep your ire up for action...or
have you gotten any sense of humor about it all, for the sanity of
your family?

The use of "torn apart" and "languished" reflects your pain, but not
your objectivity...that may come in time. If you are going to Reform
them, you need a lot steadier hand that you show using those loaded
words.

It makes you ready prey for the people that would use you, and even
are willing to endanger you again to further their various sick
agendas. Steady on, steady on. Don't give in to anger when you plan
and excute that plan. It's a sure fire loser if you do.

Course you might feel better weilding battle axe and taking off a few
heards. And set yourself up for making a serious mistake that THEY
COULD GET YOU FOR.

Don't let yourself fall into that, as other visitors here, or some
that have followed the advocates of murderous vengance have done.

A couple of them are in jail.

Since that time I have helped to pass bills into law,

Yeeehaooo...a real reformer. May we see them?

I am currently
working with representatives to draft amendments to current laws and
introduce entirely new ones, and have seen Nalepa hit the
unemployment
line.

Excellent. What you don't know about me, by following me for only a
short time here as I battle the phonies and loose cannons, is that I
am an advocate of exactly the kind of actions you have taken when the
system proved malfunctioning...as SO often caused not by "CPS," amd
"the System" but by the actions of some maverick nitwits such as you
described.

YOU, sir, are a TRUE reformer. I applaud you and any who helped you.
That IS how it is done.

Now, you can claim I'm lying

Can't think why I would do that without proofs. So far you haven't
said a single thing that you have stumbled over, as these twitterers
here do. Constitent, factual to my own personal knowledge of the
system, and only a little emotional..as I certainly would be in your
place.

or putting my spin on it or tactfully
ommiting key facts.

Oh, I expect you are human and you will, even unconsciously, manage to
be "putting" your "spin on it or tactfully ommitting key facts" but I
have no reason whatsoever to fault you for simply being human. You
have behaved admirably, as far as I can see.

The ONLY question I have is, do you think ALL OF CPS is wrong and
should be destroyed because of YOUR experience? That's what the yahoos
here will try to sell you.

Years ago I decided after a human being of color held me up and robbed
me that I would not kill all people of that color. Kinda dumb of me,
huh?

Most people do, and that doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm not most people.

My strong advocacy for a working CPS makes the yahoos here nervous and
react by making up vile lies about what I know of real in-office CPS
LIVE FIRE practice (rather than what's in the books they get their
info from....and from the interpretations of folks harmed by bad
folks, such as you ran into....which cannot help but have you
experiencing some bias faults for a time).

The reason that these kind of stories don't get out are twofold.

For you, but not for all. There are more than two reasons, but you
have the floor and I'd like to read on, rather than comment on a minor
point....UNLIKE MY OPPONENTS WHO CANNOT RESIST DIVING OUT THE WEASEL
BOLT HOLE RATHER THAN ADMIT I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

First,
innocent parents who have been through the system are so frightened
when
(if) they win that they don't want to draw any more retribution down
on
them.

I'll buy that.

Some do feel that way. Can I blame them?

Nope, but when they do speak up...and act as you have I certainly
celebrate their courage and commitment, because they are REAL
reformers, not whiners like we have here that have actually been
guilty and gotten away with it for the most part and can't stand their
own diaper stink. So they poop out their piehole as a facade.

Secondly, the news has an unwritten policy of "if it bleeds it
leads". A news rep told my wife "if none of your children died, it's
not
news."

Oh, that's not "unwritten." It's spoken of much in journalism classes,
and you can find it here and there.

If you google you'll get a return something like this "about 6,840 for
"if it bleeds it leads."

Which of course I did...but never mind, I just like to remind folks
that when making a claim be sure and have some ground to stand on.
This was small potatoes and of little matter.

It's the big claims that you might find me comin' back at yah on. Like
claiming CPS is the Evil Empire Child Abuse Industry, and other bits
and pieces of nonsense crapola that interfers with recoverying
families and children from them.

The "none of your children died, it's not news," wouldn't hold some
folks back a bit. I suspect it didn't in your case. 0:-

So, call me a liar, I expect it.

Can't think why I would unless I had evidence.

I DO NOT call people liars in this ng without the explicite evidence
they have lied, and it's often supplied by them, as well as by myself,
when they insist on being fools.

I apply reality to their fantasy, ask them to explain, and if they do
not, I assume stupidity, mental incapacity, or plain old devious
lying...I expect I get a bit of a mix from some of these folks.

You want facts, I have all the
documentation to prove everything I claim.

You'll never see me turn down a free meal, or a fact.

Some key documents are up on
the internet already (http://www.family-bond.net). This site is
under
development and there is MUCH left to put up there.

Byembye, I'll visit.

I'll wait for your announcement here, and I admire your coming back at
me waht with my undeserved nasty reputation here.

However, I am an angel with parents, even those that HAVE ABUSED OR
NEGLECTED, if they are getting their acts together and are not here
playing at games of avoidance and denial...and those that appear to be
innocent have nothing to fear from me...in fact I'll help when I can.

Ask around.

If you really think you know your stuff, let's talk process and law.

Mmmmmm, well, ah, I'm a fair hand, as they say..what with comin' up on
30 years in the saddle or under CPS's as a nasty burr.

Ladd
won't even debate me.

I missed something. I don't get the name connection. Are we
crossposted and it didn't take in this ng?

I can run circles around anyone who claims the
system works.

Of course you can.

I can fault pigs, but I damn sure won't turn down bacon.

No "system" works for everyone all the time. Someone ALWAYS is going
to get shat upon.

That IS the nature of systems, but systems is what we got, as a
society. Cause it's just the name for our institutions of government,
or governance.

I'll refrain from inferring anything about yourself (as you've done
me),

Aw, did I press too hard? Are you too tender? Should I apologize?

R R R R R

and I will give you a chance to present some type of an argument if
you
can keep from making it sound like a temper-tantrum.

Naw, I llike to rant sometimes. I never rant without cause though.

Your appearance of being involved with Fern, suggest you too are a
nitwit. We'll see, won't we? smile

If you wished, but I do not require, you may look at a few of my posts
over time...you'll see I am targeting behaviors (as in claims) that
are easily refuted, or the babbling of some abusive nitwit that is
trying to build a facade of innocence.

Take your time. I'll be here.

And let's pick a spot to work on from the following, or you add to the
list.

1. Number of sex abuse cases, then and now.
(they've gone down on CPS watch)

2. Advances in technology, plus and minus. I know what works and
doesn't and where the successes and failures are.

3. Better, that is, more current medical information that helps to
lower the indences of abuse allegation substantiations.

People here keep crowing about the past errors of CPS, while right in
front of them in their very own citations it says CHILD WELFARE HAS
IMPROVED IN THIS AREA...right out of federal information sources.

4. Give us a system that will work better....with some rational
reasons, not the nonsense I get here, that I simply have to watch the
news or the latest research to see it get knocked down in a few weeks
or months.

Believe me, I've been watching and interacting with CPS for a very
long time. I know the weaknesses and strengths, and what works with
abusive and neglectful parents and what doesn't.

And since you asked me to defend the position that "CPS works," I'm
obliged to respond, or be seen for one of the pueling little weasel
twits I battle here daily.

I'll confine myself, when appropriate, to pointing out that your
claim, if I see one that qualifies, is exactly as the propogandists
peddle, and I'll show how it is nonsense. Often by their own evidence.

Between us, given that you are one kind of activist, a former victim,
and I another, an advocate for relatives of children in state custody,
and on occasion their client relative, we have a unique combination,
that if we use it well could further real reform.

And show these ****ants once again they are barking up the wrong
little red wagon...0;-

You'll get over your mad, I presume, and cut closer to the bone as
time passes. Having emotion free facts are vital to other families
that might come in contact with CPS.

Having emotion laden ones can send them off the mountain head first.
Very dangerous to buy into "KILL CPS KILL CPS" rhetoric.

One family we know of and use to discuss on this ng, lost out big time
by getting on that loser path, instead of using their heads. Too
young, and too vulnerable to the most evil of peoples; those who DO
abuse their children and deny deny deny amd cover up their guilt by
bringing others to ruin so they can gloat...and claim "see, CPS is
evil evil evil."

Be very careful of your facts and what they mean. It's vital to other
families.

The one person in this ng that has had repeated success defending
himself and dozens of other families is a bear for facts...and a major
tactician in using them. And HE IS THE ONLY ONE HERE.

The twits generally hate him, with good reason. They know he sees
right through them.

Not a single other person here has ever prevailed agaist CPS and
won...most won't even try, really. Just make things worse, for their
own needs, or shortcomings. My self being the exception. My winning
takes a very different form. I train and coach people how to
win...from another persective. I'm much sneakier than Dan...R R R R...

And then there are the occasional foster parents, rel and non-rel
you'll run into here. Some are gold, and have major information to
share, when they can find their way out from under all the **** the
propagandists spread. It's a hazard.

They'll drop a fine well thought out precious gem on this ng, and sure
enough, the twits will come back with claims they are "in it for the
money" or defending the indefensible CPS...and newbies might just
believe that latter nonsense, and miss the value of the former
information.

But hell, I guess we'll always have humans that have to **** in the
punch bowl, and cackle all the while like drunken freshman, crashing
the party.

The latter are blatherers or propagandists, as you'll find out in
time. Some have more elegant facades, but you seem intelligent and
thoughtful. That's really all it takes to beat CPS, and a little guts.
And to see through the phonies here.

Hell, even the guilty can do it...the innocent are bound to.

You'll be courted by them. Count on patronizing sweetness. Then
remember, con men don't rough you up and ask you hard questions. They
ease you into a bent over position without you even noticing, and even
liking it....for the present.

I WILL rough you up if I think you are babbling and twittering and
mistaken.

Here's to a productive exchange on CPS reform. And MORE saving of
children and families when CPS staff are mistaken.

Good day,
Kane

Kane,
First off I'd like to mention that I feel rather silly. I didn't
realize this was a newsgroup because the way someone directed me here (and
the website I'm accessing it through) it looks like a message board. I
agree, this doesn't belong here.
Secondly, how dare you! I wanted to fight, not engage in intelligent
conversation!!! No, actually I appreciate yor response very much and I
will answer in the proper NG later, but I am running late for work at the
moment.
But let me respond to the show cause hearing. There was none. There
was a preliminary hearing, and my wife and I thought we'd have them that
day... but... and to thee astonishment of all, no one presented a single
piece of evidence (either proving guilt ot innocence).
There's many, many more things like that. Now, I've read the manuals
and the laws and know them inside and out, and things like what happened
to us have safeguards to keep them from happening, both in policy and in
law. BUT, many people involoved in the case were only going through the
motions, not doing their jobs, and ealmost every single check and balance
failed.
Afterward, with my repeated appeals to the state, the Attorney
Grievance Commission, the Supreme Court, and management types all over the
place, the only one to face any kind of punishment was the rookie
caseworker (who, even though I could not stand her, was guilty only of
being stupid and mean). The AG's and LGAL's and Judges and FIA management
escaped wthout so much as a handslap, even with an Ombudsman report being
published on our case.
Kane, Thank you and I will respond to each of your points later today.
I do appreciate the discussion.

kane" WOWOWOWOWO...EEEE....!!! 866,000 HITS...GOOD GOSH AMIGHTY."

What does hits have to do with the way a child dies?

Kane-"Gosh, only measily 1,930,000 hits from the above search
criteria..just
one word different than yours. And twice the return. Wonder if it
means anything."

See above. Maybe if CPS was weeding out the real abuse instead of
removing children who never warranted removal, then some of these children
would still be alive DUH!


Kane-"Yeah, now that's going to be an objective unbiased source. No
thanks,
think I'll avoid the vampires tonight. No doubt a website that will
harvest the surfer who clicks in. That kind of folks are dangerous, if
exerience is any teacher."

From the "Vampires"

o N.J. STARVING BOYS CASE PROMPTS FIRINGS
by John P. McAlpin, Associated Press Writer (10-27-03)
TRENTON, N.J. - The body of a 7-year-old boy found in a box in a Newark
basement nearly a year ago prompted a shake-up at New Jersey's child
welfare agency. The agency reviewed all open cases, hired 366 more
employees and received $30 million in emergency aid.

Despite those changes, four adopted boys — one of them 19 — were found
earlier this month malnourished and weighing less than 50 pounds each.
Their adoptive parents [Raymond and Vanessa Jackson] were charged last
week with starving them, and on Monday, nine child welfare employees were
fired and the state announced another review of recently compiled safety
assessments of children in state care.

o TWO CHARGED WITH ABUSING ADOPTED KIDS
by Lise Fisher, Gainesville Sun (4-11-03)
"Two Gainesville women, including one who has been adopting abused and
neglected children for about 20 years, are accused of abusing many of
those children - beating them with pipes and forcing them to fight with
each other at their home, police said.

Nellie Jasper Johnson, 60, was at the Alachua County jail Thursday where
she was being held in lieu of a $1 million bond on 38 charges including
aggravated child abuse, child neglect and tampering with a witness, victim
or informant.

Also charged is her adopted daughter, Colony Latrisa Johnson, 29, who was
at the jail in lieu of a $500,000 bond. She faces prosecution on six
counts of child abuse and four counts of aggravated child abuse.

Police forwarded the names of 19 possible victims to prosecutors,
Gainesville Police Detective Patti Nixon said. They were ages 7 to 17 when
the alleged abuse occurred, she said.

Nixon said this is one of the worst cases of child abuse she has seen.

...All of the victims were adopted through a Broward County agency called
Shepherd's Care Ministries, police and an official with the Florida
Department of Children & Families said. The group is licensed by DCF to
recruit adults to adopt children and to make adoptive placements, local
DCF spokesman Tom Barnes said. The group, Barnes said, would have been
responsible for conducting a home study prior to the children being
adopted by Nellie Johnson.

....The last adoption occurred in about 1996, Barnes said. The adopted
children came from South Florida, including Palm Beach and Broward
counties. Nixon said there may have been more victims.

'There are more children out there who are grown and we haven't been able
to reach,' she said."

o "MAN IN MIDST OF DIVORCE KILLS FAMILY"
from Wire Service Reports, in Salina Journal, 1-28-03
Horner, West Virginia: "A man in the middle of a divorce shot two of his
children and a foster child child to death in the woods and killed
himself....Gayle Sams estranged wife and their 14-year-old daughter
escaped unharmed and ran to a neighbor's house to call 911...Two 4-year
olds and a 17 year old boy were killed when Sams who was living elsewhere
went to the family home...The sheriff said the family was adopting one of
the 4 year olds."

"SLAIN BOY'S BIOLOGICAL RELATIVES QUESTION ADOPTION PROCESS"
by Grace Hobson, The Kansas City Star (1-10-03):
"Patricia Jones could not have known a fleeting visit with her 2-year-old
grandson, Brian Clark, would be her last. She had not seen the toddler
since he was placed in foster care at the age of about 7 months old. But
his foster parents arrived late to the meeting, so the visit with the boy
she had helped raise was brief. "It was like a flash of light," recalled
Jones, of Kansas City. "A hug. A kiss. I haven't seen him since then --
until the news. All I heard was the name Brian, and I knew that was my
grandchild. "My heart just dropped," Jones said, tears welling.

This week a social services official confirmed that Brian Edgar, the
9-year-old boy who died Dec. 29 of asphyxiation after being gagged, was
her biological grandson. ..... How, they wonder, could Kansas social
services officials allow Brian to be adopted by people who later would be
charged in his death? Neil and Christy Edgar, and their baby sitter,
Chasity Boyd, are charged with first-degree murder of Brian, who died
after he was bound and gagged and his mouth was taped shut. Police allege
in court records filed this week that Brian and three other children the
Edgars had adopted were routinely bound at night and gagged.

Brian was a happy, well-adjusted baby, Patricia Jones said. His only
medical problem was sleep apnea, for which he used a sleep monitor, she
said. .... Shadden said she did not know why Brian was not placed with
anyone in his biological family, and said that under Kansas law she could
not discuss any particular case.


o "A DEATH IN WHITE BEAR LAKE"
-- Ballantine Books, 11/28/00, by Barry Siegel, (ISBN 0345432991)

The true story of how a 3-1/2 year old child was brutally abused and
ultimatly murdered by his adopter, Lois Jurgens. You Will learn how her
husband, family and friends were very aware of the abuse and did absolutly
nothing to help this poor child. You will also read how the justice system
and adoption agency failed to save Dennis. And the painful events for the
natural mother, Jerry Sherwood and her family to get justice for her dead
son. Very well written book that goes into the background of Lois and
Harold Jurgens and how this evil women was able to adopt a total of 6
children (all whom ran away and were removed from her home due to abuse).
The book also gives a compelling account of the trial and finally the
conviction of murder for Lois Jurgens, who for 22 years almost got away
with it.

There's a few vampire stories. I hardly have time to post them all.


Kane-"Let's see now, 40,200 hits on your search URL. and.....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...+child&spell=1

With only two words changed from your URL, we get, aw shucks, a
measely 13,100. You win, parents don't abuse their children."

What kind of ****ing moron are you? I don't win anything. Let's not
close down CPS. Let's make them parents of ALL children. Sounds silly
doesn't it? Of course CPS needs to exsist. It's just needs to be
drastically changed.


Kane--"Waddah yah say, huh? Let's keep CPS, and the cops around for a
little
longer...given sex abuse reports have done down on their watch.

You have a great one, nineball girl, over there behind the eight ball.

Scratch again for us.

Kane"

Did you actually go to school to be a stupid ****? or were you born with
that wonderful ability?

(Kane) wrote in message
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:27:52 -0400, "Tulkas"
wrote:

...Some thought provoking information and claims. ....

And I respond...why the heck is this in alt parenting spanking only
and NOT also in alt.support.child-protective-services, where it
belongs?

I'll cross post it now.

pohakuyakokane,

That's nice. I don't believe in abuse...and I don't believe in
spanking. As far as I know, and I DO know, spanking is not illegal as
a crime, or a civil matter in any state in this country. Surely you
weren't charged with "spanking" were you?

No. My youngest son had 2 broken bones at different times in his life
(one a rib when he crawled up behind a vacuum cleaner and hit the foot
release, and the other when he was playing on a bed and his foot
became wedged in between the frame and mattress, resulting in a
hairline tibia fracture.

BTW, the Family Independence Agency (Michigan's DSS) believes physical
punishment is acceptable as long as no mark is left, standards lower
than that of my own family.


Not important, don't answer unless you have something important to you
you wish to share.

We thought it was a joke, and that it would all go away when a
state-trained CPS worker investigated and would clearly see that it
was
false.

Enter Naelpa, a 48-year-old rookie. She never made any collateral
contact
except for our pediatrician, who asked her to leave his office after
arguing with her about my family.

She took one son. Enter Ladd, Little-Fletcher, Rosen-Gordon, and
Gibson-Manning. They took the rest with absolutely no testimony and
TPR
was filed. Want proof, I have the transcripts.

I'd like to see them. I presume you are out of the woods, or I must
insist you withhold this information from public view. This is NOT a
secure site, and I have strong reason to believe one of the anti CPS
crowd here (yes, really) reported a family that came here for help, to
their state's CPS office. I don't think you have any idea what you are
dealing with in this forum.

But I must ask: TPR filing without offering services, without a show
cause hearing? Strange place you live, if that is so. Michigan I think
you say somewhere in this piece. I'll have to do some research.

Are you up on their policy manual(s) by now?


It will take some time to scan in the transcripts, but I do have the
petitions online at the moment. As for not attempting services...

In Michigan the CPS worker has quite a bit of authority. Families are
categorized in Categories 1 through 5, 1 being instantly closed case,
5 being life-threatening abuse/neglectful. We were labeled a 5. The
decision is made solely by the CPS worker. The supervisor reviews the
file, but never does any of their own investigation and tends to take
the word of the CPS worker (failsafe #1 down the drain). Category 5
mandates immediate TPR filing.

Now, the peition for TPR needs to be authorized in a court of law
after a hearing. To our astonishment we weren't even allowed to
speak! And worse yet, the FIA never had to present any evidence, they
didn't even need to lie. The court simply validated the petition
(failsafe #2 down the drain). The burden of proof is on the
petitioner, but in this case, the accusation was prrof enough
apparently. My grievances to the FIA, the Attorney Greivance
Commission, and the Judicial Tenure Commission were dismissed
(failsafe #3 down the drain).

Now the LGAL (Ladd) was required by law to conduct his own
investigation, meet with our children, and meet with us. None of that
ever happened (failsafe #4 down the drain). My greivance with the AGC
regarding this was dismissed (failsafe #5 down the drain).

Barrese was Nalepa's supervisor, and Lievense was Barrese's. Their
complete disregard for process, policy, and law allowed Nalepa to run
through my family unchecked.

You are probably speculating more than having proof they did that. Not
saying they didn't, but I'm more interested your EXPERIENCE, than what
you think someone did, or even what a third party told you happened.

There is no such thing as any formal, separate "process." That IS in
policy. Even "practice" is not codified, except in policy..something
I've been chipping away at CPS about for many years...since 1991 or
so, as I recall. I want the major graduate schools of social work to
come up with a grand manual of standard practice in child welfare.
It's too fractured, with too many opinions by too many separate
sources. Some good, some total crackpots who happen to get into
positions of power.

That was a finding in the Ombudsman's report, which they also included
in their annual FIA review.


Then there's Michael's, the foster care manager who tried to have
evidence
of our absolute innocence removed from our file.

No! Really?

He didn't actually get to go through with it, the person he ordered to
removce the info was the foster care worker assigned to us, and
instead she filed a grievance with the union (the results of which we
are not priivy to).


(An aside, if you don't mind. There isn't any such thing as separate
workers that do specialties foster supervision and management to the
exclusion of client casecarrying. I have that on good authority when I
claimed the same thing that I don't know CPS field practice.

Seems you and I have been seeing the same up to date movie, and my
opponent here, a jackass that thinks he an expert, is watching old
reruns.)

Sorry..couldn't resist...back to your story.


In Michigan children are assigned a CPS worker, then, if brought intot
the system, a foster care worker (in this case it is the ONLY failsafe
that didn't fail).

Hokay...so this Michaels tried to illegally alter a case record. If
you got proof boy is that ass in a sling. Check your state statutes.
It won't likely be in policy. I hope it's a felony and you charge him,
if you have sufficient proof to convince a DA.

Michaels was having an
affair with Nalepa.

Conspiracy? Sounds like you ran into criminals. That isn't the rule.

But remember, an "affair" is not a criminal offense, and is NOT
indicative of criminal intent. It's an aside.

His messing about with your file IS however. Ask an attorny in your
state if this is not true, or look it up as I suggested.

Not that telling me matters, but as a courtesy, how did you find out
that he tried to alter your case record? That is a very very dangerous
thing for anyone to do. Traces, if it was on computer, are there in
backup files, and archives...often paper that is stored. Kinda a dumb
one I suppose.

As for how I know all of this... I won't say in a public forum. The
FIA may very well be listening, and they know of 2 people in the
office that were on our side... but not all of them.

I did however get an attorney who was supposed to be suing the FIA.
She finally backed out after realizing that to get past the
governmental immunity issues she would have to do quite a bit of work.
She initially took us on a contingency basis, but after realizing
what would be involved and the chances of winning, agreed to continue
on an hourly basis. Well, we're $10,000 in the hole still from hiring
competent representation and could not afford her fees.


We won when the Ombudsman intervened, along with several elected
officials
and the head Judge of Family Court.

Excellent..despite the skullduggery of two or more you prevailed by
the system doing its work. Good for them. Good for you.


Not entirely. The head Judge intervened only because of "divine
intervention" if you will. We had an acquaintance with a connection
to him that most parents couldn't possibly hope to have.

And when you get around to telling me CPS DOESN'T WORK, kindly recall
what you just said...assuming you meant, as you have said, "the
system" doesn't work.

It does. It just hurts like hell some times. But without
it....ooooeeee would we be in trouble...back to the jungle and the
strong eating the weak.


I am not naive enough to believe that a good majority of the cases
aren't warranted, but in my county I have seen time and time again
abused children never even removed from the home, while our children,
who have it quite good, were in the initial stages of the adoption
process.

My problem with the process is that one person was allowed to make up
her mind and throw my family into chaos. We were fortunate in that we
were assigned a foster care worker that was nothing short of an angel.
I have it on confidence from the inside that that is usually not the
case.

But the damage was done.

Yes, and you have two wonderful opportunities. One of for financial
recompense. And the other to work toward tuning the system...that is
REFORM as it's meant to be done. Unless of course you adhere to the
nonsense that it must be destroyed. Then you are talking with the
wrong person.

I don't LIKE CPS. NEVER HAVE...but I do NOT have a replacement
solution that I know isn't full of holes a mile wide...like let's turn
it all over to the police. You might have faired far worse in an LEO
based system.


I wouldn't even fathom abolishing CPS. BUT... there need to be
consequences when a CPS worker oversteps his/her bounds. Technically
she wasn't fired. To this date she oficially received no reprimand or
punishment of any kind. Oficially she left for medical reasons. We
know it was reccomended she leave quitely, but there is no official
acknoledgement of her behavior other than the Ombudsman's report.

Additionally, laws need to be changes and punishmenets need to be
levied when the other players refuse to do their jobs. AND, I can't
believe I'm saying this.... we need more CPS workers. Their caseloads
are too large to possibly make a fair judgement on each and every
family assigned to them.

Our family was torn apart for three months while
our children languished in foster care with my wife and I allowed
only
limited visitation.

Then you may well have a case for extreme harm and more. I'd look at
it if I were you.


Lawyers won't touch it, again the immunity issue. The only reason the
lawyer we reatined would (after being turned down by 80+ other
lawyers, offices, firms) was because she was good friends with a State
Rep on our side.

How are you treating the three month event now though? Making much of
it with your kids and each other to keep your ire up for action...or
have you gotten any sense of humor about it all, for the sanity of
your family?

The use of "torn apart" and "languished" reflects your pain, but not
your objectivity...that may come in time. If you are going to Reform
them, you need a lot steadier hand that you show using those loaded
words.


Believe it or not, when I am discussing the issues with lawmakers I am
completely objective. It's when I'm asked to recount my own
experience that I get emotional.

Many of the things I am trying to do never became a factor in our
case, such as videotaping all contacts, requiring a reporter to
divulge and verify his/her identity (while keeping that information
from the accused of course), and boosting the number of workers.

It makes you ready prey for the people that would use you, and even
are willing to endanger you again to further their various sick
agendas. Steady on, steady on. Don't give in to anger when you plan
and excute that plan. It's a sure fire loser if you do.

Course you might feel better weilding battle axe and taking off a few
heards. And set yourself up for making a serious mistake that THEY
COULD GET YOU FOR.

Don't let yourself fall into that, as other visitors here, or some
that have followed the advocates of murderous vengance have done.

A couple of them are in jail.


Believe me, if I didn't have restraint, I would be in jail. I've
studied martial arts for 20+ years and recently took 4th in the World
Championships in Folkstyle Wrestling. If I wanted to do damage, it
would be done by now.

No, the best way is to use your head. That is a major problem in the
reform movement I've noticed. Many of the parents are unable to
emotionally detach themselves from the previous events and end up
sounding like rambling morons, even when they are intelligent,
educated, well-meaning people. And of course you also have your
loudmouths and even those who only claim to be innocent (which really
hurts the movement the most).

Since that time I have helped to pass bills into law,

Yeeehaooo...a real reformer. May we see them?


Most recent: HB5589 in the Michagan legislature. It's not much, but
it is something, and part of a larger scheme.

I am currently
working with representatives to draft amendments to current laws and
introduce entirely new ones, and have seen Nalepa hit the
unemployment
line.

Excellent. What you don't know about me, by following me for only a
short time here as I battle the phonies and loose cannons, is that I
am an advocate of exactly the kind of actions you have taken when the
system proved malfunctioning...as SO often caused not by "CPS," amd
"the System" but by the actions of some maverick nitwits such as you
described.


I agree. My real frustration (after winning my children back) was the
lack of accountablity for these said nitwits. That's one major area
the system needs to be changed in.

YOU, sir, are a TRUE reformer. I applaud you and any who helped you.
That IS how it is done.

Now, you can claim I'm lying

Can't think why I would do that without proofs. So far you haven't
said a single thing that you have stumbled over, as these twitterers
here do. Constitent, factual to my own personal knowledge of the
system, and only a little emotional..as I certainly would be in your
place.

or putting my spin on it or tactfully
ommiting key facts.

Oh, I expect you are human and you will, even unconsciously, manage to
be "putting" your "spin on it or tactfully ommitting key facts" but I
have no reason whatsoever to fault you for simply being human. You
have behaved admirably, as far as I can see.

The ONLY question I have is, do you think ALL OF CPS is wrong and
should be destroyed because of YOUR experience? That's what the yahoos
here will try to sell you.

As mentioned above, absolutely not. But I do understand the
sentiment.


Years ago I decided after a human being of color held me up and robbed
me that I would not kill all people of that color. Kinda dumb of me,
huh?

Most people do, and that doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm not most people.

My strong advocacy for a working CPS makes the yahoos here nervous and
react by making up vile lies about what I know of real in-office CPS
LIVE FIRE practice (rather than what's in the books they get their
info from....and from the interpretations of folks harmed by bad
folks, such as you ran into....which cannot help but have you
experiencing some bias faults for a time).


I would venture to say that you and I are on the same side.

The reason that these kind of stories don't get out are twofold.

For you, but not for all. There are more than two reasons, but you
have the floor and I'd like to read on, rather than comment on a minor
point....UNLIKE MY OPPONENTS WHO CANNOT RESIST DIVING OUT THE WEASEL
BOLT HOLE RATHER THAN ADMIT I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

First,
innocent parents who have been through the system are so frightened
when
(if) they win that they don't want to draw any more retribution down
on
them.

I'll buy that.

Some do feel that way. Can I blame them?

Nope, but when they do speak up...and act as you have I certainly
celebrate their courage and commitment, because they are REAL
reformers, not whiners like we have here that have actually been
guilty and gotten away with it for the most part and can't stand their
own diaper stink. So they poop out their piehole as a facade.

Secondly, the news has an unwritten policy of "if it bleeds it
leads". A news rep told my wife "if none of your children died, it's
not
news."

Oh, that's not "unwritten." It's spoken of much in journalism classes,
and you can find it here and there.

If you google you'll get a return something like this "about 6,840 for
"if it bleeds it leads."

Which of course I did...but never mind, I just like to remind folks
that when making a claim be sure and have some ground to stand on.
This was small potatoes and of little matter.

It's the big claims that you might find me comin' back at yah on. Like
claiming CPS is the Evil Empire Child Abuse Industry, and other bits
and pieces of nonsense crapola that interfers with recoverying
families and children from them.

The "none of your children died, it's not news," wouldn't hold some
folks back a bit. I suspect it didn't in your case. 0:-

What are the other reasons? I am genuinely interested to hear what
you have to say.


So, call me a liar, I expect it.

Can't think why I would unless I had evidence.

I DO NOT call people liars in this ng without the explicite evidence
they have lied, and it's often supplied by them, as well as by myself,
when they insist on being fools.

I apply reality to their fantasy, ask them to explain, and if they do
not, I assume stupidity, mental incapacity, or plain old devious
lying...I expect I get a bit of a mix from some of these folks.

You want facts, I have all the
documentation to prove everything I claim.

You'll never see me turn down a free meal, or a fact.

Some key documents are up on
the internet already (http://www.family-bond.net). This site is
under
development and there is MUCH left to put up there.

Byembye, I'll visit.

I'll wait for your announcement here, and I admire your coming back at
me waht with my undeserved nasty reputation here.

However, I am an angel with parents, even those that HAVE ABUSED OR
NEGLECTED, if they are getting their acts together and are not here
playing at games of avoidance and denial...and those that appear to be
innocent have nothing to fear from me...in fact I'll help when I can.

Ask around.

If you really think you know your stuff, let's talk process and law.

Mmmmmm, well, ah, I'm a fair hand, as they say..what with comin' up on
30 years in the saddle or under CPS's as a nasty burr.

Ladd
won't even debate me.

I missed something. I don't get the name connection. Are we
crossposted and it didn't take in this ng?


Ladd was the LGAL that "represneted" my children.

I can run circles around anyone who claims the
system works.

Of course you can.

I can fault pigs, but I damn sure won't turn down bacon.

No "system" works for everyone all the time. Someone ALWAYS is going
to get shat upon.

That IS the nature of systems, but systems is what we got, as a
society. Cause it's just the name for our institutions of government,
or governance.

I'll refrain from inferring anything about yourself (as you've done
me),

Aw, did I press too hard? Are you too tender? Should I apologize?

R R R R R

and I will give you a chance to present some type of an argument if
you
can keep from making it sound like a temper-tantrum.


Sorry for the low blow... Emotions got to me.

Naw, I llike to rant sometimes. I never rant without cause though.

Your appearance of being involved with Fern, suggest you too are a
nitwit. We'll see, won't we? smile

If you wished, but I do not require, you may look at a few of my posts
over time...you'll see I am targeting behaviors (as in claims) that
are easily refuted, or the babbling of some abusive nitwit that is
trying to build a facade of innocence.


I know what you are talking about all too well, and you're preaching
to the choir. It's individuals as such that make my job that much
more difficult.

Take your time. I'll be here.

And let's pick a spot to work on from the following, or you add to the
list.

1. Number of sex abuse cases, then and now.
(they've gone down on CPS watch)

2. Advances in technology, plus and minus. I know what works and
doesn't and where the successes and failures are.

3. Better, that is, more current medical information that helps to
lower the indences of abuse allegation substantiations.

People here keep crowing about the past errors of CPS, while right in
front of them in their very own citations it says CHILD WELFARE HAS
IMPROVED IN THIS AREA...right out of federal information sources.

4. Give us a system that will work better....with some rational
reasons, not the nonsense I get here, that I simply have to watch the
news or the latest research to see it get knocked down in a few weeks
or months.

Believe me, I've been watching and interacting with CPS for a very
long time. I know the weaknesses and strengths, and what works with
abusive and neglectful parents and what doesn't.

And since you asked me to defend the position that "CPS works," I'm
obliged to respond, or be seen for one of the pueling little weasel
twits I battle here daily.

I'll confine myself, when appropriate, to pointing out that your
claim, if I see one that qualifies, is exactly as the propogandists
peddle, and I'll show how it is nonsense. Often by their own evidence.

Between us, given that you are one kind of activist, a former victim,
and I another, an advocate for relatives of children in state custody,
and on occasion their client relative, we have a unique combination,
that if we use it well could further real reform.

And show these ****ants once again they are barking up the wrong
little red wagon...0;-

You'll get over your mad, I presume, and cut closer to the bone as
time passes. Having emotion free facts are vital to other families
that might come in contact with CPS.

Having emotion laden ones can send them off the mountain head first.
Very dangerous to buy into "KILL CPS KILL CPS" rhetoric.

One family we know of and use to discuss on this ng, lost out big time
by getting on that loser path, instead of using their heads. Too
young, and too vulnerable to the most evil of peoples; those who DO
abuse their children and deny deny deny amd cover up their guilt by
bringing others to ruin so they can gloat...and claim "see, CPS is
evil evil evil."

Be very careful of your facts and what they mean. It's vital to other
families.

The one person in this ng that has had repeated success defending
himself and dozens of other families is a bear for facts...and a major
tactician in using them. And HE IS THE ONLY ONE HERE.

The twits generally hate him, with good reason. They know he sees
right through them.

Not a single other person here has ever prevailed agaist CPS and
won...most won't even try, really. Just make things worse, for their
own needs, or shortcomings. My self being the exception. My winning
takes a very different form. I train and coach people how to
win...from another persective. I'm much sneakier than Dan...R R R R...

And then there are the occasional foster parents, rel and non-rel
you'll run into here. Some are gold, and have major information to
share, when they can find their way out from under all the **** the
propagandists spread. It's a hazard.

They'll drop a fine well thought out precious gem on this ng, and sure
enough, the twits will come back with claims they are "in it for the
money" or defending the indefensible CPS...and newbies might just
believe that latter nonsense, and miss the value of the former
information.

But hell, I guess we'll always have humans that have to **** in the
punch bowl, and cackle all the while like drunken freshman, crashing
the party.

The latter are blatherers or propagandists, as you'll find out in
time. Some have more elegant facades, but you seem intelligent and
thoughtful. That's really all it takes to beat CPS, and a little guts.
And to see through the phonies here.

Hell, even the guilty can do it...the innocent are bound to.

You'll be courted by them. Count on patronizing sweetness. Then
remember, con men don't rough you up and ask you hard questions. They
ease you into a bent over position without you even noticing, and even
liking it....for the present.

I WILL rough you up if I think you are babbling and twittering and
mistaken.

Here's to a productive exchange on CPS reform. And MORE saving of
children and families when CPS staff are mistaken.

Good day,
Kane

Whatever your reputation here is, you have my respect. I understand
how the emotions start flying when the topic comes up, it is after all
quite a sensitive subject.

As far as being a stickler for that facts... hell, that's what we
need. The lawyer we hired told me point-blank: "Mark, I know you and
your wife are innocent, but unfortunately that doesn't count for much"

We were just screaming for people to look at the facts, which no one
but the FC worker would.

I have run across all types of people. When I started I intially
began working with several other groups, but it only takes one or two
of the group to discredit the entire group. I find I accomplish much
more working by myself, in an inteeligent and solution-oriented
manner. I don't just complain, I also offer valid and viable
solutions. Those that simply whine are a disservice.

The reason this is the frst you're seeing of me on the NG is because
when I came here in the past I didn't see much worth commenting on.
It was simply people on both sides of the issue screaming at each
other with no one actually discussing how to make it better (in a
realistic manner that is).

Yesterday was a wild set of circumstances for me. I was having a "bad
FIA day" with some of the memories coming out of nowhere, and I
somehow came across a message in where it appeared someone called
someone a coward for not naming names. I am afraid of no one any
more, and being in a bad mood... well, a recipe for what could have
been a disaster. But, I'm glad I came by.

I look forward to the discussions.