Similarities between the zealots in child protection and phrenology.

"Dan Sullivan" wrote
in message et...

http://pages.britishlibrary.net/phrenology/overview.htm

...like so many popular sciences, Gall and the phrenologists sought only
confirmations for their hypotheses and did not apply the same standard to
contradictory evidence. Any evidence or anecdote which seemed to confirm the
science was readily and vociferously accepted as "proof" of the "truth" of
phrenology. At the same time, contradictory findings, such as a not very
benevolent and disagreeable person having a well-developed organ of
Benevolence were always explained away.

And,

From its beginnings as a social activity in Britain, phrenology attracted
the enthusiastic and the arrogant. Such persons found "one of the most
valuable discoveries that ever graced the annals of philosophy" to be just
the thing for them to enter the burgeoning world of scientific societies.
Furthermore, one could enter that world at the head. Many of these early
phrenologists were political and social reformers and a few were ultra
radicals- and many of the histories of phrenology describe phrenology as a
reformist or radical science.

And

Phrenologists also spent considerable time and effort in defending
themselves and their science from criticism- always ready to portray
themselves as Galileo-like defenders of natural truth, condemned by bigoted
religious and close-minded scientific critics. Identical arguments are used
today by charlatans of all descriptions who claim to have special knowledge
or abilities. Those too rational or cautious to believe without evidence are
dismissed as "close-minded".

Is Dan waffling again? Or is he just trying
to fool somebody into believing that he is
against CPS?

Just so he can urge the naive to do services
that are baseless and inappropriate witch hunt?

I notice he didn't post this in answer to LaVonne's
recent post attempting to logically compare
prohibition of spanking to prohibition of slavery.

LaVonne, by the way, teaches early childhood
education at the University of Minnesota.

"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...

Is Dan waffling again?

Again?

You have proof I waffled at all?

Or are you blowin smoke like yer buddies do.

Or is he just trying
to fool somebody into believing that he is
against CPS?

I'm against CPS when they do things wrong.

Just so he can urge the naive to do services
that are baseless and inappropriate witch hunt?

Never have I recommended baseless or inappropriate services.

You have proof that I did?

I notice he didn't post this in answer to LaVonne's
recent post attempting to logically compare
prohibition of spanking to prohibition of slavery.

And that means?

LaVonne, by the way, teaches early childhood
education at the University of Minnesota.

Good.

Dan

G: Is Dan waffling again?
D: Again?
You have proof I waffled at all?
Or are you blowin smoke like yer buddies do.

G: You just did it again! You posted a perfect
retort to LaVonne, but you didn't post it
in the thread where it would have appropriately
answered her. You can't seem to decide
what you believe. You are flip flopping.
(Didn't your ""bipolar ex"" do this?)

G: For a minute there I thought you were
pointing out that "again" was not appropriate
since you have waffled all along.

G: Or is he just trying to fool somebody into
believing that he is against CPS?

D: I'm against CPS when they do things wrong.

G: Which is 97% of the time and you DO know it.
In fact, you say it yourself, just not to me.
It seems your beliefs change depending on
who you are talking to. One could easily
argue that your beliefs are a sham.

Are you in politics? You have all the skills
to lie out of both sides of your mouth
at the same time.

G: Just so he can urge the naive to do services
that are baseless and inappropriate witch hunt?

D: Never have I recommended baseless
or inappropriate services.

G: When have you acknowledged ANY
as baseless or inappropriate?
Also convenient that you don't
consider a Psych Eval to be a "service"
even if it's on a "service plan".
You have also mocked the requirement
that service plans should be formed
with Active Participation in the Formation
of the Service Plan, and mocked my
feelings about the badly RIGGED one
we had illegally rammed down our throats.

D: You have proof that I did?
G: Wasn't that enough? Why would I need more?
G: I notice he didn't post this in answer to
LaVonne's recent post attempting to logically
compare prohibition of spanking to prohibition
of slavery. Was a perfect answer to her.

D: And that means?
G: You posted something which seemed startlingly
appropriate in answer to the zealots. It was
a perfect answer to LaVonne's comparison
betweeen slavery and spanking.
So WHY did you NOT post it in that thread?
It seems that you are displaying personal
loyalty to LaVonne or her alleged expertise.

G: LaVonne, by the way, teaches early childhood
education at the University of Minnesota.

D: Good.
G: Please explain.

G: (to Fern)
I noticed that any questions about
LaVonne's PhD were ignored. And the
U of M web sites disclaim all opinions
as not those of the University.

Greg Hanson wrote:

D: I'm against CPS when they do things wrong.

G: Which is 97% of the time and you DO know it.
In fact, you say it yourself, just not to me.
It seems your beliefs change depending on
who you are talking to. One could easily
argue that your beliefs are a sham.

Goodness Greg. I just answered a long post to me about my emotional
pleas without scientific evidence. Here you claim CPS is wrong 97% of
the time. How did you arrive at 97%? Do you have scientific data that
shows CPS to be wrong 97% of the time? Did you post this reference and
I missed it? Or is this simply an emotional statement of fact with no
evidence to back up your percentage claim?

Have you ever heard of projection?

G: (to Fern)
I noticed that any questions about
LaVonne's PhD were ignored. And the
U of M web sites disclaim all opinions
as not those of the University.

Actually, these questions were not ignored. You may have missed the
posts. I have an undergraduate degree in Child Development/Early
Childhood Education from the U of M. I have a Master's degree in Early
Childhood Special Education from the U of M. I have a Ph.D. in Early
Childhood Education with a minor in Early Childhood Special Education
from the U of M. I coordinate the Early Childhood Special Education
Teacher Licensure Program, teach classes in Early Childhood Education
and Early Childhood Special Education at the U of M.

Of course the U of M's web site disclaims all opinions as not those of
the University. This is a blanket clause. I am not on this ng
representing the U of M. This is true for all academic institutions and
even a major newspaper indicates that editorials, regardless of the
content, does not necessarily represent the optinions held by the paper.

This is pretty elementary stuff, Greg. What is your point?

LaVonne

D: I'm against CPS when they do things wrong.

G: Which is 97% of the time and you DO know it.
In fact, you say it yourself, just not to me.
It seems your beliefs change depending on
who you are talking to. One could easily
argue that your beliefs are a sham.

LaVonne wrote
Goodness Greg. I just answered a long post to me about my emotional
pleas without scientific evidence. Here you claim CPS is wrong 97% of
the time. How did you arrive at 97%? Do you have scientific data that
shows CPS to be wrong 97% of the time? Did you post this reference and
I missed it? Or is this simply an emotional statement of fact with no
evidence to back up your percentage claim?

AFCARS

Do you know what that is, LaVonne?
Or might a mere student need to educate you?

Perhaps, since you didn't even know that every state
CPS in the US FAILED their Federal Audits!
How could an expert such as you NOT KNOW THAT???
Wasn't that important enough for you to know?

Have you ever heard of projection?

Orthogonal, Psychological or TV?
Careful, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Call me Groucho.

Actually, these questions were not ignored.
You may have missed the posts.

If you don't answer a question in the same
thread it was IN, that does tend to happen LaVonne.
Like this little gem.

I wasn't explicitly going into the
alt.parenting.spanking newsgroup to see where you
might have pidgeon holed some answer.
Not very straight forward to do that LaVonne.

Maybe I'll have to hang out more in alt.parenting.spanking

You'll like that.

(Greg Hanson) wrote in message . com...
D: I'm against CPS when they do things wrong.

G: Which is 97% of the time and you DO know it.
In fact, you say it yourself, just not to me.
It seems your beliefs change depending on
who you are talking to. One could easily
argue that your beliefs are a sham.

LaVonne wrote
Goodness Greg. I just answered a long post to me about my emotional
pleas without scientific evidence. Here you claim CPS is wrong 97% of
the time. How did you arrive at 97%? Do you have scientific data that
shows CPS to be wrong 97% of the time? Did you post this reference and
I missed it? Or is this simply an emotional statement of fact with no
evidence to back up your percentage claim?

AFCARS

Show us where AFCARS says that CPS is wrong 97% of the time. Which
little tiny data set did you have to isolate to come up with that far
fetched number?

Been Dungrolling?

Do you know what that is, LaVonne?
Or might a mere student need to educate you?

LaVonne's degree got your goat eh?

Personally I could stump a rocket scientist on some things, but not
rocket science.

Now AFCARS, that's another story. Care to discuss reporting methods
with me?

Perhaps, since you didn't even know that every state
CPS in the US FAILED their Federal Audits!

Perhaps you didn't know there are separate sections to the audit and
many states passed most sections easily.

This is the same kind of Dung heap data information spouting you silly
twits do all the time. You get a partial piece of information and
don't bother to research.

Please provide, if you are going to make a claim, the details on what
sections of the audit they failed.


How could an expert such as you NOT KNOW THAT???
Wasn't that important enough for you to know?

I notice you threatened to become the teacher on the subject of
AFCARS. How is it you then collapsed and offered no information?

If one is to understand the significance of the federal assessments
(by the way, "audit" is a term applied by the media and other half
wits) one should understand the assessment process. It is highly
complex and as are the outcomes.

The scoring is highly subjective in some areas.

I suggest you start with understanding the instruments and methods.

http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/cb/.../im0205a1e.htm

As good a place as any to start, but you'll find page after page of
requirements just for the mechanics, let alone the actual data.

So tell us, Bright boy, just what areas did what states fail in their
"audit"?


Have you ever heard of projection?

Orthogonal, Psychological or TV?

Psychological. It's common with those with severe neurosis.

Careful, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Call me Groucho.

And sometimes it's not. But that isn't the question.


Actually, these questions were not ignored.
You may have missed the posts.

If you don't answer a question in the same
thread it was IN, that does tend to happen LaVonne.
Like this little gem.

I wasn't explicitly going into the
alt.parenting.spanking newsgroup to see where you
might have pidgeon holed some answer.
Not very straight forward to do that LaVonne.

Compared to YOU? R R R R

Maybe I'll have to hang out more in alt.parenting.spanking

Do. We'll point the posters here to your illustrious past.


You'll like that.

Absolutely. In fact we'd love it. The more ngs you make a fool of
yourself in the better.

Kane