Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to ShootingRampage

"marcia" wrote in message
...
On Feb 22, 12:47 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:
"marcia" wrote in message

...

On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:
"marcia" wrote:
ROFL!

Sad that.

Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence.

Wrong again

Among the specifically school-related attacks the site documents a

In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann, who had been taking Anafranil and
Lithium,
walked into a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, Ill., and began
shooting.
One child was killed and six wounded.

"had been taking" implies she had gone OFF her meds and may have been
actively psychotic because her mood wasn't being controlled by the
Lithium.

Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.


Later that same year, 19-year-old James Wilson went on a shooting rampage
at
the Greenwood, S.C., Elementary School and killed two 8-year-old girls
and
wounded seven others. He'd been on Xanax, Valium and five other drugs.

Again, "had been" implies he was no longer taking the drugs. Xanax and
Valium are both benzodiazapines, minor sedatives with known to
disinhibit people at high doses. I doubt a doctor would have
prescribed this combination; therefore, it suggests the shooter may
have abusing drugs off prescription.

You doubt the facts.


Kip Kinkel, a 15-year-old of Springfield, Ore., in 1998 murdered his
parents
and proceeded to his high school where he went on a rampage killing two
students and wounding 22 others. Kinkel had been prescribed both Prozac
and
Ritalin.

"Had been prescribed" does not mean he was taking the meds. Careful
choice of words designed to imply meds were the cause without
substantiation. Bias showing.

LOL! Who is bias, Marcia?


Patrick Purdy, 25, in 1989 opened fire on a school yard filled with
children
in Stockton, Calif. Five kids were killed and 30 wounded. He been treated
with Thorazine and Amitriptyline.

If he were still taking his thorazine, I can almost guarantee he
wouldn't have had the energy to shoot someone. Suggests a
schizophrenic (who the med is prescribed to) off medication.

Suggest...suggest.


Steve Lieth of Chelsea, Mich., in 1993 walked into a school meeting and
shot
and killed the school superintendent, wounding two others, while on
Prozac.

Does not prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in
recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications
in America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.

Pharmaceutical-induced violence
Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.




10-year-old Tommy Becton in 1996 grabbed his 3-year-old niece as a shield
and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff's deputy who accompanied a truant
officer
to his Florida home. He'd been put on Prozac.

Was he taking it? Had it had time to take effect? Again, does not
prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.

Why are you defending Prozac and all other meds mentioned here?


Michael Carneal, 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer
meeting
in Heath High in West Paducah, Ky. Three died and one was paralyzed.
Carneal
reportedly was on Ritalin.

"Reportedly." Unsubstantiated.

http://www.thesaveproject.com/



In 1998, 11-year-old Andrew Golden and 14-year-old Mitchell Johnson
apparently faked a fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro,
Ark.,
and shot at students as they left the building. Four students and a
teacher
were killed. The boys were believed to be on Ritalin.

"believed to be." Again, unsubstantiated.

http://www.thesaveproject.com/


In 1999, Shawn Cooper, 15, of Notus, Idaho, took a shotgun to school and
injured one student. He had been taking Ritalin.

"Had been taking." Again, suggests he was off medication.

Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.



April 20, 1999, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, shot and killed
12
classmates and a teacher and wounded 24 others. Harris had been taking
Luvox.

"had been taking."

Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.


Todd Smith walked into as high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada in 1999
with
a shotgun and killed one and injured a second student. He has been given
a
drug after a five-minute phone consultation with a psychiatrist.

What drug? Was he taking it?

Dexadrine. Very similar to Ritalin with the same type of side effects
occasionally seen.
The only major difference is that Dexadrine can stay in the blood longer
than Ritalin reducing the frequency of the dose.


Steven Abrams drove his car into a preschool playground in 1999 in Costa
Mesa., Calif., killing two. He was on probation with a requirement to
take
Lithium.

Doesn't mean he was taking it. People are known to go off their meds
all the time, especially ones with side-effects as unpleasant as
Lithium's.

Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.


In 2000, T.J. Solomon, 15, opened fire at Heritage High School in
Conyers,
Ga., while on a mix of antidepressants. Six were wounded.

Doesn't prove the antidepressants were the cause.

The prosecutor said authorities found the sawed-off barrel and scope from a
..22 rifle hidden in Solomon's bedroom.

Read said the search of Solomon's home turned up three pages of bomb
instructions printed from the Internet along with a note that alludes to the
April 20 school shooting at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.

Solomon's note, which was found under his bed, mentioned his "brothers and
sisters related to the Trench Coat Mafia."

The note also said Solomon had planned the shootings for years but finally
got angry enough to do it.


The same year Seth Trickey of Gibson, Okla., 13, was on a variety of
prescriptions when he opened fire on his middle-school class, injuring
five.

"on a variety of prescriptions" could mean anything. Doesn't say they
were psych drugs.

Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."

Elizabeth Bush, 14, was on Prozac. She shot and wounded another student
at
Bishop Neumann High in Williamsport, Pa.

Doesn't prove Prozac was the cause.

Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."


Jason Hoffman, 18, in 2001 was on Effexor and Celexa, both
antidepressants,
when he wounded two teachers at California's Granite Hills High School.

Doesn't prove Effexor and Celexa were the cause.

Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."



In Wahluke, Wash., Cory Baadsgaard, 16, took a rifle to his high
schooland
held 23 classmates hostage in 2001. He has been taking Paxil and Effexor.

Doesn't prove Paxil and Effexor were the cause.

Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."


In Tokyo in 2001, Mamoru Takuma, 37, went into a second-grade classroom
and
started stabbing students. He killed eight. He had taken 10 times his
normal
dosage of an antidepressant.

Abuse of drug.

Latest figures showing that antidepressants have become the most commonly
prescribed drugs in the United States



Duane Morrison, 53, shot and killed a girl at Platte Canyon High School
in
Colorado in 2006. Antidepressants later were found in his vehicle.

Doesn't prove he was taking them, or that they were the cause of the
violence.

Yeah, he must have had them to give to his dog............................


In 2005, 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise on the Red Lake Indian
Reservation in Minnesota was under the influence of the antidepressant
Prozac when he shot and killed nine people and wounding five before
committing suicide.

"Under the influence" demonstrates extreme bias against psych meds
without supporting evidence that Prozac "influences" anyone to do
anything.

Prozac is the antidepressant made by Eli Lilly. It is the most profitable
drug in history. The side effects of Prozac include that it makes people
violent. Many of the most sensational killing sprees have been committed by
drug-crazed people who were made that way by Prozac. Click here for a page
with many links to material about Prozac. You can even read about how Lilly
knew that Prozac would cause the side effect of violence, but hid that
truth.

Withdrawal from Prozac is harder than withdrawing from heroin! The
withdrawal symptoms include trembling and tendencies to either suicide or
violence to others.

Here is what Eli Lilly admits to in its official explanation of Prozac side
effects:

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors--There have been reports of serious, sometimes
fatal, reactions (including hyperthermia, rigidity, myoclonus, with
possible rapid fluctuations of vital signs, and mental status changes that
include extreme agitation progressing to delirium and coma) in patients
receiving fluoxetine in combination with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor
(MAOI), and in patients who have recently discontinued fluoxetine and are
then started on an MAOI. Some cases presented with features resembling
neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Therefore, Prozac should not be used in
combination with an MAOI, or within a minimum of 14 days of discontinuing
therapy with an MAOI. Since fluoxetine and its major metabolite have very
long elimination half-lives, at least 5 weeks (perhaps longer, especially if
fluoxetine has been prescribed chronically and/or at higher doses (See
Accumulation and Slow Elimination Under ACTIONS/CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY))
should be allowed after stopping Prozac before starting an MAOI.

Prozac side effects include murder! Prozac withdrawal symptoms include a
desire to commit violence. Eli Lilly Prozac is soon to be replaced the same
drug with a different name. Prozac antidepressant winds up CAUSING
depression.

The initial effect of Prozac seems to be more calm. But, this is the symptom
of becoming more like a vegetable. After a period of time on this
antidepressant, the Prozac side effects are much more prominent that the
intended main effect. This is the point where it is virtually impossible to
withdraw from use of the drug, and the point where the person is more and
more willing to commit violence, including murder, on others.

Eli Lilly is one of the most evil drug companies on the planet. They knew,
many years ago, about the side effects of Prozac. They deliberately hid the
truth for the sole purpose of making billions of dollars of profit on this
harmful drug.

snip more denial and defending of these drugs from Marica

On Feb 23, 12:20 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:
"marcia" wrote in message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

On Feb 23, 10:25*am, marcia wrote:
On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" wrote in message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.

If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.

On Feb 22, 3:34*pm, Coleah wrote:
On Feb 22, 2:05*pm, Mark Probert wrote:





On Feb 22, 11:59*am, Coleah wrote:

On Feb 22, 9:26*am, marcia wrote:

On Feb 21, 11:49 pm, Mark Probert wrote:

On Feb 21, 12:59 pm, marcia wrote:

On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:

"marcia" wrote:
ROFL!

Sad that.

Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence. Remember the
University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.

Well said. This is a fact that the anti-medders ignore.

Thanks, Mark. There is little logic in their reasoning.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What fascinates me in this debate is that most of the
people doing such horrendous crimes had some prior
'history' of unstable mental disorder; which had gotten
the attention of concerned (loved ones, friends, family ???)
that prompted putting them on medication in the first place.

Blame the medication?-

Examine the laws of the states where these shootings happened. They
are the ones where buying a gun is easy, and their is a "gun
culture".- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I doubt that making it harder to buy a gun would deter those kinds of
shootings,

It may have prevented Virginia Tech.

unless there was a tight method of screening the character
of gun buyers for mental stability, adherence to taking their
medications and their likelihood of doing evil to others. *That would
mess with privacy issues

But living people would appreciate it.

On Feb 23, 3:15 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:25 am, marcia wrote:



On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" wrote in message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.

If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.

I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark!

"marcia" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 12:20 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:
"marcia" wrote in message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

I choose the face the facts.
You choose to defend psych meds, make excuses, and cannot see the truth.

http://www.naturalnews.com/z022656.html

NaturalNews.com printable article
Originally published February 17 2008
Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
by Mike Adams


(NaturalNews) It comes as no surprise to anyone who's been following school
shootings all the way back to the Colombine High massacre in Colorado: Every
young, male shooter that has gone on a killing spree in the United States
also has a history of treatment with psychotropic drugs -- typically SSRI
antidepressants. These shootings have three things in common: 1) The
shooters are young males. 2) The shooters exhibit a mind-numbed disconnect
with reality. 3) The shooters have a history of taking psychiatric
medications.


This latest shooting by 27-year-old Stephen Kazmierczak shares the same
three factors. Stephen was considered a "normal, undistressed person,"
according to press reports. He was considered "an outstanding student" and
even received a Dean's Award for outstanding work in sociology. So what
happened to Stephen's brain that caused him to snap and open fire on
students in a college classroom?


Psych meds make good people do bad things
Psychiatric medications, of course, are well known to cause extremely
violent thoughts and behavior in young males. This is actually acknowledged
by the FDA and is found in the black-box warnings printed on the packaging
for such drugs. In Europe, the prescribing of many such drugs to children
and teens is actually illegal. But in the United States, where psychiatric
medications have become the "new medicine" for American youth, nobody seems
to pay attention to the simple fact that every school shooting we've seen in
the last decade has been committed by a young male with a history of
treatment with psychiatric medications.


The mainstream media, of course, is trying to spin the story by claiming
Stephen snapped because he stopped taking his medications. MSM headlines
proclaim, "Illinois Shooter Stopped Taking His Medications." What these
headlines fail to communicate is the fact that psychiatric drugs cause
long-term disruptions in the brain which lead to a strong dissociation with
reality. These young, male shooters hardly even know they're in the real
world anymore. They no longer see their fellow classmates as human beings,
but rather as lifeless objects to be used for target practice. For those
people taking psychiatric medications, there's even a strong dissociation
with one's own life, as evidenced by the repeated willingness of these
shooters to ultimately turn their guns on themselves.


These are precisely the kinds of things acted out by people who take psych
medications: Disconnection with reality, disconnection with self, and
disconnection with others. Modern psychiatric medicine is in the business of
taking people who feel depressed and chemically lobotomizing their brains so
they feel nothing. Once they feel nothing, there's nothing stopping them
from unloading on fellow human beings with firearms. They no longer feel
empathy or compassion. Nothing matters anymore. This is strongly
characteristic of the well-documented side effects of psychiatric
medications.


There is no doubt in my mind that the Illinois shooter's history of taking
psychiatric medications was the primary cause of his violent behavior. It
doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications
in America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.


Pharmaceutical-induced violence
Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.


In fact, I publicly predicted this school shooting in a December 7, 2007
article about the mall shooter in Omaha, where I said:


There will be more. I hate to be accurate about this grisly prediction,
because I grieve for the families of those lost to pharmaceutically-induced
violence, but the truth is that until we stop drugging our children with
psychotropic drugs, the shootings are not going to stop.


And as sad as this tragedy is for all those affected by this
medication-induced violence, the truly sad part is that America still hasn't
learned this lesson. If you drug the children with chemicals that cause
violence, you're going to see more shootings. It's as simple as that. And if
you take away the guns, you'll see bombs, knives or machetes used in these
attacks. When disturbed young boys are doped up on psychotropic drugs that
promote violence -- and they're drugged by the hundreds of thousands -- it's
like playing a national game of Russian roulette (with apologies to Russia).
Sooner or later, another kid whose mind has been altered by Ritalin, Prozac
or some other drug is going to walk into yet another school or mall and
start killing people. This kind of behavior is a direct product of
chemical-based psychiatric "treatment."


Let me now continue that prediction by stating that the Illinois shooting
won't be the last one, either. As long as the psychiatric industry -- which
is now run by Big Pharma -- is allowed to run amok and "play doctor" with
the chemicals in children's brains, we're going to continue to see school
shootings, bombings, stabbings and other outbursts of violence. While
ignorant psych docs will say the population needs more drugs, and while
silly voters will call for bans on guns, nothing will actually prevent this
kind of violence in America until we stop drugging our children with
mind-altering drugs and stop exposing them to extremely violent video games
and television shows. In fact, I believe it is the combination of violent TV
programming and mind-altering psych meds that ultimately leads to the kind
of violence that took place in Illinois.


Modern psychiatry kills
In Illinois, Omaha, Colombine, Virginia Tech and other places, the real
murderers are not simply the young men who pulled the triggers but rather
the criminal minds running modern psychiatry -- an industry that preys upon
young men and boys, enslaving them in a regimen of mind-altering chemicals
that create disturbed behaviors, all while calling it "treatment."


While the MSM will, of course, sensationalize this story and blame the lone
shooter, the real culprits behind this latest massacre are the psychiatric
doctors and drug companies who continue to push these dangerous,
mind-altering drugs onto young men, knowing full well that a certain
percentage of them will exhibit extremely violent behavior. Of course, in
order to protect its revenues and power over people, modern psychiatry has
selectively decided to deny the existence of any link between mind-altering
drugs and mindless violence, insisting that these young men actually need
more chemical treatment, not less. The only reason Stephen Kazmierczak went
on a shooting spree, if you ask the psychiatrists, is because he didn't have
enough synthetic chemicals in his brain! America needs more drugs, didn't
you know?


Of course, that reasoning is absurd from the outset. What Stephen needed was
mental clarity, not chemical obfuscation. Do mind-altering drugs provide
mental clarity? Of course not. They suppress clarity, causing mental
confusion and dissociation. In some people, they can cause extremely violent
outbursts of behavior. Mental clarity (and balanced behavior) is only
achieved through a chemical-free diet and lifestyle... one that's based on
fresh produce, plant-based diets, superfoods and natural, chemical-free
products. What Stephen needed, in summary, was green living. Had he been on
a plant-based diet, he never would have gone on that shooting rampage.


Natural health consumers are far more mentally balanced
Tet me finish this story with yet another prediction: You will never see a
shooting rampage conducted by a raw foods advocate who practices green
living, who eats no animal products, who uses no drugs and who takes no
pharmaceuticals. Those people are the most emotionally balanced,
compassionate and healthy individuals you'll ever find. The chances of a
green living person ever "snapping" and going on a shooting rampage are
zero. Search all the news archives you want: You'll never find a single case
of someone on a plant-based diet with no chemicals in their bodies going off
and killing people.


It's only people who eat animal products and who take mind-altering
medications that end up committing these violent acts.


Too bad most of the journalists who work for the mainstream media are too
doped up themselves to notice these fairly obvious correlations. Most of
those folks are on psych meds, too, and you see it in their writing, which
exhibits an astounding disconnect with reality. The mass medication of
people in America has become so "normal" that journalists no longer think
medications could possibly have any role in aberrant behavior. And so we're
left with the blind reporting to the blind about events caused by the blind.
(In this case, "blind" meaning a lack of awareness / consciousness.)


It's a sad, sad state of affairs, and when future historians look back on
why America failed as a nation, they will probably shake their heads in
disbelief (or laugh their heads off) over the mass medication of an entire
population. Seriously, our present-day practices of medicating everybody
will someday seem just as stupid as doctors' use of radiation in the early
20th century to give people "more energy." It's true: Doctors often
prescribed irradiated pills, irradiated water and other radioactive
substances to their patients, claiming they would give them energy. Today,
we know the radiation was poisonous and the practice was stupid, but one
thing I've noticed about the history of medicine is that doctors always
manage to find a new scam that keeps them rich while poisoning the people. A
hundred years ago, it was radiation pills. Today, it's depression pills.
Same scam, different era. Same stupid doctors. Same gullible population.


There truly is nothing new under the sun.


How Big Pharma recruits mindless soldiers for the Pentagon
Oh, and by the way, on the conspiracy side of things, did you ever wonder
why it's primarily young boys who are drugged with violence-inducing
chemicals? Notice that violent young men also make highly effective soldiers
who can mindlessly commit violent atrocities against prisoners in secret
U.S. military bases like, say, Gitmo. The more the U.S. government can drug
young men and cause them to feel nothing, the more easily they can sign them
up to go murder innocents in whatever country is being targeted next by the
imperialist Bush was machine.


Pharmaceuticals and war go hand in hand, and the more minds that can be
nullified by pharmaceuticals, the more mindless bodies are made available
for the Pentagon's war machine. And that, of course, is exactly what makes a
good soldier these days: A mindless body that follows orders, commits
violence and feels nothing. Funny how Big Pharma just happens to manufacture
chemicals that accomplish the same thing, huh? You could call it "chemical
recruitment" for the U.S. military. The kid gets put on SSRIs today, and in
a few years his mind will be warped enough to sign up for military service
and be told who to shoot, torture or kill. And he'll do it without question,
because he's been chemically prepped for the whole experience thanks to
modern psychiatry -- a murderous, evil cabal of Frankenbrain doctors whose
arrogance is only exceeded by their own lust for power over the minds of the
masses.


Care to guess where this is all leading the United States of America? Stay
tuned, and I'll bring you more predictions of the downfall of America in
future articles. Don't be the last to learn what's really coming in this
country. The mass drugging of the population is only a small piece of the
big picture. For now, stay alert and mindful. Avoid all chemicals. Live
green, and stay connected with the real world around you (the real world
being nature). Invest in your own education and health, and you'll be better
prepared for the tidal wave of global changes yet to come -- changes that
will shatter the illusions under which most people live today, and may
eventually lead to the birth of a new civilization no longer based on
predatory instincts.

"Mark Probert" wrote:

anti-medders

Is not the subject.

"marcia" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 3:15 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:25 am, marcia wrote:



On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" wrote in
message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.

If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.

I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark!

Marcia wrote the below [for starters]

*I have bipolar disorder and am on 5 meds: Abilify, Neurontin, Effexor,
Wellbutrin and Klonopin, but I've been in treatment for about 25 years
and have sampled a lot of others. *


I understand your wanting to go off meds; a lot of us feel that way,
more sometimes than others. I'm better on them, too, and only get in
trouble when I go off (20-22 days until a manic or depressive episode,
just like clockwork), and have been hospitalized in the past, also. It
would be nice to avoid that in the future...


Zoloft did the same for me, but Effexor and Wellbutrin--together with
my mood stabilizer--have worked wonders. None of the SSRIs were
effective for my depression, tho.


Projection and typical sociopathic behavior from the sociopath, Brad.
You don't care about the readers of this ng; you only care about
yourself. Another sociopathic trait. What are we up to, now--six or
seven?

Original groups restored.

"Frank" wrote in message ...

"Jan Drew" wrote in message
...

"Frank" wrote in message
...


None of the cases you cited backed up the original report, in fact
"had been" most likely would be construed as "not on it now"

Every one of those people you cited in this post drank water within a
few hours of doing the murders and everyone or most intelligent
people know that water is poisonous if drunk to excess.

Has anyone done any studies at all on this? Nope. There are numerous
reports of death by overdose of water, and who is to say that the
poison water didn't create delusions which caused them to go off the
deep end like you did in this post. Please cut back on your water
intake.

First it's corn, now it is water.what completely nonsense.

I left your lengthy repost in originally so you could go back and check
the facts, you didn't, nor did you address my first line.

My "nonsense" was a shortened version of the BS that you posted. Water
can be deadly and that is a fact.

Water is a diversion. This thread is not about water.

However what you posted was mostly
conjecture, based on HS.


Liar.

On Feb 24, 1:08 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:
"marcia" wrote in message

...



On Feb 23, 3:15 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:25 am, marcia wrote:

On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" wrote in
message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.

If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.

I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark!

Marcia wrote the below [for starters]

*I have bipolar disorder and am on 5 meds: Abilify, Neurontin, Effexor,
Wellbutrin and Klonopin, but I've been in treatment for about 25 years
and have sampled a lot of others. *

I understand your wanting to go off meds; a lot of us feel that way,
more sometimes than others. I'm better on them, too, and only get in
trouble when I go off (20-22 days until a manic or depressive episode,
just like clockwork), and have been hospitalized in the past, also. It
would be nice to avoid that in the future...

Zoloft did the same for me, but Effexor and Wellbutrin--together with
my mood stabilizer--have worked wonders. None of the SSRIs were
effective for my depression, tho.

Projection and typical sociopathic behavior from the sociopath, Brad.
You don't care about the readers of this ng; you only care about
yourself. Another sociopathic trait. What are we up to, now--six or
seven?

You might have indicated this is a combination of several posts
written at different times over the course of several years. You make
it appear as though this is one post, which makes you a deliberate
liar. Shame on you, Jan.

FYI, I currently take Effexor, Wellbutrin, Abilify, Klonopin and a
small dose of Seroquel for sleep, so the information is also out of
date. Current information was available. Shame on you, Jan.

Do you mean to suggest that, by taking psych meds, I'm a danger to my
community? I have never been violent with anyone; in fact, I'm less
easily angered because of taking the meds for bipolar disorder.
Therefore, I know first-hand whereof I speak. You are simply trying to
discredit me. Shame on you, Jan.