Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to ShootingRampage

"marcia" wrote in message
...
On Feb 24, 1:08 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:
"marcia" wrote in message

...



On Feb 23, 3:15 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:25 am, marcia wrote:

On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" wrote in
message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they
become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes
while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people
who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of
a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.

If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.

I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark!

Marcia wrote the below [for starters]

*I have bipolar disorder and am on 5 meds: Abilify, Neurontin, Effexor,
Wellbutrin and Klonopin, but I've been in treatment for about 25 years
and have sampled a lot of others. *

I understand your wanting to go off meds; a lot of us feel that way,
more sometimes than others. I'm better on them, too, and only get in
trouble when I go off (20-22 days until a manic or depressive episode,
just like clockwork), and have been hospitalized in the past, also. It
would be nice to avoid that in the future...

Zoloft did the same for me, but Effexor and Wellbutrin--together with
my mood stabilizer--have worked wonders. None of the SSRIs were
effective for my depression, tho.

Projection and typical sociopathic behavior from the sociopath, Brad.
You don't care about the readers of this ng; you only care about
yourself. Another sociopathic trait. What are we up to, now--six or
seven?

You might have indicated this is a combination of several posts
written at different times over the course of several years.

I might, I might expsose WHY you defend these drugs which you take/have
taken. Cocktails.

You make
it appear as though this is one post, which makes you a deliberate
liar. Shame on you, Jan.

LOL!

marcia"

**Nowhere is my email address munged.**
Btw, you posted that AFTER you indeed were dishonest and were caught.

FYI, I currently take Effexor, Wellbutrin, Abilify, Klonopin and a
small dose of Seroquel for sleep, so the information is also out of
date. Current information was available.

That is exactly why you defend these drugs.

Shame on you, Jan.

This thread is not. about Jan.



Do you mean to suggest that, by taking psych meds, I'm a danger to my
community?

I did not suggest anything.

I have never been violent with anyone; in fact, I'm less
easily angered because of taking the meds for bipolar disorder.
Therefore, I know first-hand whereof I speak.

You need to check with your buddy Mark S Probert about anecdotes and
*personal experience*.

You are simply trying to discredit me.

You do a fine job of that yourself.

Shame on you, Jan.

Maybe you can find a psych med for repeatitis??

"marcia" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 3:15 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:25 am, marcia wrote:



On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" wrote in
message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.

If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.

I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark!

NTAC has NO medical trainning.

"marcia" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 12:20 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:
"marcia" wrote in message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

Restore my points that you did not answer which are most relevant.

Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.


Later that same year, 19-year-old James Wilson went on a shooting rampage
at
the Greenwood, S.C., Elementary School and killed two 8-year-old girls
and
wounded seven others. He'd been on Xanax, Valium and five other drugs.


Again, "had been" implies he was no longer taking the drugs. Xanax and
Valium are both benzodiazapines, minor sedatives with known to
disinhibit people at high doses. I doubt a doctor would have
prescribed this combination; therefore, it suggests the shooter may
have abusing drugs off prescription.



You doubt the facts.


Kip Kinkel, a 15-year-old of Springfield, Ore., in 1998 murdered his
parents
and proceeded to his high school where he went on a rampage killing two
students and wounding 22 others. Kinkel had been prescribed both Prozac
and
Ritalin.


"Had been prescribed" does not mean he was taking the meds. Careful
choice of words designed to imply meds were the cause without
substantiation. Bias showing.



LOL! Who is bias, Marcia?


Patrick Purdy, 25, in 1989 opened fire on a school yard filled with
children
in Stockton, Calif. Five kids were killed and 30 wounded. He been treated
with Thorazine and Amitriptyline.


If he were still taking his thorazine, I can almost guarantee he
wouldn't have had the energy to shoot someone. Suggests a
schizophrenic (who the med is prescribed to) off medication.



Suggest...suggest.


Steve Lieth of Chelsea, Mich., in 1993 walked into a school meeting and
shot
and killed the school superintendent, wounding two others, while on
Prozac.


Does not prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.



It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in
recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications
in America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.

Pharmaceutical-induced violence
Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.



10-year-old Tommy Becton in 1996 grabbed his 3-year-old niece as a shield
and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff's deputy who accompanied a truant
officer
to his Florida home. He'd been put on Prozac.


Was he taking it? Had it had time to take effect? Again, does not
prove Prozac was the cause of his behavior.



Why are you defending Prozac and all other meds mentioned here?


Michael Carneal, 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer
meeting
in Heath High in West Paducah, Ky. Three died and one was paralyzed.
Carneal
reportedly was on Ritalin.


"Reportedly." Unsubstantiated.



http://www.thesaveproject.com/


In 1998, 11-year-old Andrew Golden and 14-year-old Mitchell Johnson
apparently faked a fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro,
Ark.,
and shot at students as they left the building. Four students and a
teacher
were killed. The boys were believed to be on Ritalin.


"believed to be." Again, unsubstantiated.



http://www.thesaveproject.com/


In 1999, Shawn Cooper, 15, of Notus, Idaho, took a shotgun to school and
injured one student. He had been taking Ritalin.


"Had been taking." Again, suggests he was off medication.



Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.


April 20, 1999, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, shot and killed
12
classmates and a teacher and wounded 24 others. Harris had been taking
Luvox.


"had been taking."



Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.


Todd Smith walked into as high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada in 1999
with
a shotgun and killed one and injured a second student. He has been given
a
drug after a five-minute phone consultation with a psychiatrist.


What drug? Was he taking it?



Dexadrine. Very similar to Ritalin with the same type of side effects
occasionally seen.
The only major difference is that Dexadrine can stay in the blood longer
than Ritalin reducing the frequency of the dose.


Steven Abrams drove his car into a preschool playground in 1999 in Costa
Mesa., Calif., killing two. He was on probation with a requirement to
take
Lithium.


Doesn't mean he was taking it. People are known to go off their meds
all the time, especially ones with side-effects as unpleasant as
Lithium's.



Psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain.


In 2000, T.J. Solomon, 15, opened fire at Heritage High School in
Conyers,
Ga., while on a mix of antidepressants. Six were wounded.


Doesn't prove the antidepressants were the cause.



The prosecutor said authorities found the sawed-off barrel and scope from a
..22 rifle hidden in Solomon's bedroom.

Read said the search of Solomon's home turned up three pages of bomb
instructions printed from the Internet along with a note that alludes to the
April 20 school shooting at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.


Solomon's note, which was found under his bed, mentioned his "brothers and
sisters related to the Trench Coat Mafia."


The note also said Solomon had planned the shootings for years but finally
got angry enough to do it.



The same year Seth Trickey of Gibson, Okla., 13, was on a variety of
prescriptions when he opened fire on his middle-school class, injuring
five.


"on a variety of prescriptions" could mean anything. Doesn't say they
were psych drugs.



Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."


Elizabeth Bush, 14, was on Prozac. She shot and wounded another student
at
Bishop Neumann High in Williamsport, Pa.


Doesn't prove Prozac was the cause.



Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."


Jason Hoffman, 18, in 2001 was on Effexor and Celexa, both
antidepressants,
when he wounded two teachers at California's Granite Hills High School.


Doesn't prove Effexor and Celexa were the cause.



Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."


In Wahluke, Wash., Cory Baadsgaard, 16, took a rifle to his high
schooland
held 23 classmates hostage in 2001. He has been taking Paxil and Effexor.


Doesn't prove Paxil and Effexor were the cause.



Virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the
past decade have had one thing in common:
They were perpetrated by people taking Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil or a
related antidepressant drug."


In Tokyo in 2001, Mamoru Takuma, 37, went into a second-grade classroom
and
started stabbing students. He killed eight. He had taken 10 times his
normal
dosage of an antidepressant.


Abuse of drug.



Latest figures showing that antidepressants have become the most commonly
prescribed drugs in the United States


Duane Morrison, 53, shot and killed a girl at Platte Canyon High School
in
Colorado in 2006. Antidepressants later were found in his vehicle.


Doesn't prove he was taking them, or that they were the cause of the
violence.



Yeah, he must have had them to give to his dog............................


In 2005, 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise on the Red Lake Indian
Reservation in Minnesota was under the influence of the antidepressant
Prozac when he shot and killed nine people and wounding five before
committing suicide.


"Under the influence" demonstrates extreme bias against psych meds
without supporting evidence that Prozac "influences" anyone to do
anything.



Prozac is the antidepressant made by Eli Lilly. It is the most profitable
drug in history. The side effects of Prozac include that it makes people
violent. Many of the most sensational killing sprees have been committed by
drug-crazed people who were made that way by Prozac. Click here for a page
with many links to material about Prozac. You can even read about how Lilly
knew that Prozac would cause the side effect of violence, but hid that
truth.

Withdrawal from Prozac is harder than withdrawing from heroin! The
withdrawal symptoms include trembling and tendencies to either suicide or
violence to others.


Here is what Eli Lilly admits to in its official explanation of Prozac side
effects:


Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors--There have been reports of serious, sometimes
fatal, reactions (including hyperthermia, rigidity, myoclonus, with
possible rapid fluctuations of vital signs, and mental status changes that
include extreme agitation progressing to delirium and coma) in patients
receiving fluoxetine in combination with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor
(MAOI), and in patients who have recently discontinued fluoxetine and are
then started on an MAOI. Some cases presented with features resembling
neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Therefore, Prozac should not be used in
combination with an MAOI, or within a minimum of 14 days of discontinuing
therapy with an MAOI. Since fluoxetine and its major metabolite have very
long elimination half-lives, at least 5 weeks (perhaps longer, especially if
fluoxetine has been prescribed chronically and/or at higher doses (See
Accumulation and Slow Elimination Under ACTIONS/CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY))
should be allowed after stopping Prozac before starting an MAOI.


Prozac side effects include murder! Prozac withdrawal symptoms include a
desire to commit violence. Eli Lilly Prozac is soon to be replaced the same
drug with a different name. Prozac antidepressant winds up CAUSING
depression.


The initial effect of Prozac seems to be more calm. But, this is the symptom
of becoming more like a vegetable. After a period of time on this
antidepressant, the Prozac side effects are much more prominent that the
intended main effect. This is the point where it is virtually impossible to
withdraw from use of the drug, and the point where the person is more and
more willing to commit violence, including murder, on others.


Eli Lilly is one of the most evil drug companies on the planet. They knew,
many years ago, about the side effects of Prozac. They deliberately hid the
truth for the sole purpose of making billions of dollars of profit on this
harmful drug.

On Feb 24, 11:46*pm, " wrote:
"marcia" wrote in message

...





On Feb 23, 3:15 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:25 am, marcia wrote:

On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" wrote in
message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.

If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.

I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark!

NTAC has NO medical trainning.-

I'll go with the experts who authoried and led the Safe Schools
Initiative:

Author Brief Bios
Robert A. Fein, Ph.D.
Robert Fein is a forensic psychologist who is a director of the
National Violence
Prevention and Study Center. Dr. Fein has worked with the U.S. Secret
Service for
the last twenty years in the area of threat assessment. Recently, he
has served as codirector
of the Secret Service Safe School Initiative. Together with Br yan
Vossekuill,
Dr. Fein is author of Protective Intelligence and Threat Assessment: A
Guide for State
and Local Law Enforcement Officials and of other publications
concerning targeted
violence. He holds appointments at Harvard Medical School and the
University of
Massachusetts Medical School. Dr. Fein can be reached at
.
Bryan Vossekuil
Bryan Vossekuil is a director of the National Violence Prevention and
Study Center.
He retired as a special agent in the U.S. Secret Service, where he
served as executive
director of the National Threat Assessment Center. He also served as
co-director of
both the Secret Service's Safe School Initiative and Exceptional Case
Study Project.
He has a special interest in the assessment and management of
threatening persons
and situations and has co-authored a number of publications on threat
assessment.
He can be reached at .
William S. Pollack, Ph.D.
Dr. Pollack is Director of the Centers for Men and Young Men at McLean
Hospital
in Belmont, Massachusetts. He is Assistant Clinical Professor in the
Department of
Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and is a Director of the National
Violence
Prevention and Study Center, as well as founder and Director of the
REAL BOYS(R)
Educational Programs. He has served on the U.S. Presidential
Initiative, the
National Campaign Against Youth Violence and is a consultant to the
United States
Secret Service, including its collaborative Safe School Initiative
with the U.S.
Department of Education. The author of three popular books re-framing
the roles of
boys in the family: Real Boys, Real Boys' Voices and the Real Boys
Workbook, his
work has also focused on the roles of violence and depression in
American society,
the impact of emotional cognition/roles within organizations--most
especially in
creating "safe climates" in schools & the workplace, and male-female
relationships.
He may be reached at: .
Randy Borum, Psy.D.
Dr. Randy Borum is Associate Professor in the Department of Mental
Health
Law & Policy at University of South Florida. He is a licensed
psychologist and is
Board-Certified (ABPP) and fellowship-trained in Forensic Psychology.
He has served
THREAT ASSESSMENT IN SCHOOLS GUIDE
a sworn police officer for municipal departments in Maryland and
Florida, and is
currently a consultant to the U.S. Secret Service National Threat
Assessment Center,
where he worked on the Safe School Initiative, and Advisory Board
Member for the
FBI's Behavioral Science Unit.
William Modzeleski
Bill Modzeleski currently serves as the Director of the Safe and Drug-
Free Schools
Program at the U.S. Department of Education. Mr. Modzeleski has over
30 years of
experience working on issues related to the care and well-being of
youth. He has
served in several capacities at the U.S. Department of Justice and at
the local level.
President Bush recently named Mr. Modzeleski as a Meritorious
Executive for his
work in the area of school safety.
Marisa Reddy, Ph.D.
Marisa Reddy is the chief research psychologist and research
coordinator
for the U.S. Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center. Dr.
Reddy oversees
all research conducted by the U.S. Secret Service on targeted violence
and threat
assessment, and serves as co-director of the Safe School Initiative.
Dr. Reddy is coauthor
of "Evaluating Risk for Targeted Violence in Schools: Comparing Risk
Assessment, Threat Assessment, and Other Approaches," as well as
additional
publications on the prevention of various types of targeted violence.
Dr. Reddy can
be reached at .
88

On Feb 24, 9:08*pm, Mark Probert wrote:


I'll go with the experts who authoried and led the Safe Schools
Initiative:


I'll go to a link from today's paper about the problem with
prescription drugs,
and the shootings.

http://www.southtownstar.com/news/br...ehmcol.article

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...dc11f77d1416ad

Feb 20

On Feb 20, 12:56 am, "Frank" wrote:


"Jan Drew" wrote in message

t...


Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
by Mike Adams


85% of Americans ate a corn product within a week before they died.



ROFL!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...d26e897faca33a

Feb 21

On Feb 21, 3:28 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:


"marcia" wrote:
ROFL!

Sad that.



Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence. Remember the
University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.

Therefore, Frank's interpretation is just as good as that of the
journalist--and twice as entertaining.

http://www.naturalnews.com/z022656.html


NaturalNews.com printable article
February 17 2008


Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
by Mike Adams


(NaturalNews) It comes as no surprise to anyone who's been following school
shootings all the way back to the Colombine High massacre in Colorado: Every
young, male shooter that has gone on a killing spree in the United States
also
has a history of treatment with psychotropic drugs -- typically SSRI
antidepressants. These shootings have three things in common: 1) The
shooters
are young males. 2) The shooters exhibit a mind-numbed disconnect with
reality. 3) The shooters have a history of taking psychiatric medications.


This latest shooting by 27-year-old Stephen Kazmierczak shares the same
three
factors. Stephen was considered a "normal, undistressed person," according
to
press reports. He was considered "an outstanding student" and even received
a
Dean's Award for outstanding work in sociology. So what happened to
Stephen's
brain that caused him to snap and open fire on students in a college
classroom?


Psych meds make good people do bad things


Psychiatric medications, of course, are well known to cause extremely
violent
thoughts and behavior in young males. This is actually acknowledged by the
FDA
and is found in the black-box warnings printed on the packaging for such
drugs. In Europe, the prescribing of many such drugs to children and teens
is
actually illegal. But in the United States, where psychiatric medications
have
become the "new medicine" for American youth, nobody seems to pay attention
to
the simple fact that every school shooting we've seen in the last decade has
been committed by a young male with a history of treatment with psychiatric
medications.


The mainstream media, of course, is trying to spin the story by claiming
Stephen snapped because he stopped taking his medications. MSM headlines
proclaim, "Illinois Shooter Stopped Taking His Medications." What these
headlines fail to communicate is the fact that psychiatric drugs cause
long-term disruptions in the brain which lead to a strong dissociation with
reality. These young, male shooters hardly even know they're in the real
world
anymore. They no longer see their fellow classmates as human beings, but
rather as lifeless objects to be used for target practice. For those people
taking psychiatric medications, there's even a strong dissociation with
one's
own life, as evidenced by the repeated willingness of these shooters to
ultimately turn their guns on themselves.


These are precisely the kinds of things acted out by people who take psych
medications: Disconnection with reality, disconnection with self, and
disconnection with others. Modern psychiatric medicine is in the business of
taking people who feel depressed and chemically lobotomizing their brains so
they feel nothing. Once they feel nothing, there's nothing stopping them
from
unloading on fellow human beings with firearms. They no longer feel empathy
or
compassion. Nothing matters anymore. This is strongly characteristic of the
well-documented side effects of psychiatric medications.


There is no doubt in my mind that the Illinois shooter's history of taking
psychiatric medications was the primary cause of his violent behavior. It
doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in recent
memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well
known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious
that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems.
It's
also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications in
America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after
psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering
medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.


Pharmaceutical-induced violence


Until we stop medication young people with mind-altering psychotropic drugs,
we will simply not see an end to this pharmaceutical-induced violence. Even
if
you somehow manage to take away all the guns, similar atrocities can be
carried out with machetes, swords, knives or explosives. The problem here is
not simply the weapon, but rather the mind behind the trigger. When minds
are
disturbed through psychiatric medications and young men are trapped in a
chemically-induced state of sub-consciousness with no connection to reality,
outbursts of mindless violence are exactly what you're going to get.


In fact, I publicly predicted this school shooting in a December 7, 2007
article about the mall shooter in Omaha, where I said:


There will be more. I hate to be accurate about this grisly prediction,
because I grieve for the families of those lost to pharmaceutically-induced
violence, but the truth is that until we stop drugging our children with
psychotropic drugs, the shootings are not going to stop.


And as sad as this tragedy is for all those affected by this
medication-induced violence, the truly sad part is that America still hasn't
learned this lesson. If you drug the children with chemicals that cause
violence, you're going to see more shootings. It's as simple as that. And if
you take away the guns, you'll see bombs, knives or machetes used in these
attacks. When disturbed young boys are doped up on psychotropic drugs that
promote violence -- and they're drugged by the hundreds of thousands -- it's
like playing a national game of Russian roulette (with apologies to Russia).
Sooner or later, another kid whose mind has been altered by Ritalin, Prozac
or
some other drug is going to walk into yet another school or mall and start
killing people. This kind of behavior is a direct product of chemical-based
psychiatric "treatment."


Let me now continue that prediction by stating that the Illinois shooting
won't be the last one, either. As long as the psychiatric industry -- which
is
now run by Big Pharma -- is allowed to run amok and "play doctor" with the
chemicals in children's brains, we're going to continue to see school
shootings, bombings, stabbings and other outbursts of violence. While
ignorant
psych docs will say the population needs more drugs, and while silly voters
will call for bans on guns, nothing will actually prevent this kind of
violence in America until we stop drugging our children with mind-altering
drugs and stop exposing them to extremely violent video games and television
shows. In fact, I believe it is the combination of violent TV programming
and
mind-altering psych meds that ultimately leads to the kind of violence that
took place in Illinois.


Modern psychiatry kills


In Illinois, Omaha, Colombine, Virginia Tech and other places, the real
murderers are not simply the young men who pulled the triggers but rather
the
criminal minds running modern psychiatry -- an industry that preys upon
young
men and boys, enslaving them in a regimen of mind-altering chemicals that
create disturbed behaviors, all while calling it "treatment."


While the MSM will, of course, sensationalize this story and blame the lone
shooter, the real culprits behind this latest massacre are the psychiatric
doctors and drug companies who continue to push these dangerous,
mind-altering
drugs onto young men, knowing full well that a certain percentage of them
will
exhibit extremely violent behavior. Of course, in order to protect its
revenues and power over people, modern psychiatry has selectively decided to
deny the existence of any link between mind-altering drugs and mindless
violence, insisting that these young men actually need more chemical
treatment, not less. The only reason Stephen Kazmierczak went on a shooting
spree, if you ask the psychiatrists, is because he didn't have enough
synthetic chemicals in his brain! America needs more drugs, didn't you know?


Of course, that reasoning is absurd from the outset. What Stephen needed was
mental clarity, not chemical obfuscation. Do mind-altering drugs provide
mental clarity? Of course not. They suppress clarity, causing mental
confusion
and dissociation. In some people, they can cause extremely violent outbursts
of behavior. Mental clarity (and balanced behavior) is only achieved through
a
chemical-free diet and lifestyle... one that's based on fresh produce,
plant-based diets, superfoods and natural, chemical-free products. What
Stephen needed, in summary, was green living. Had he been on a plant-based
diet, he never would have gone on that shooting rampage.


Natural health consumers are far more mentally balanced
Tet me finish this story with yet another prediction: You will never see a
shooting rampage conducted by a raw foods advocate who practices green
living,
who eats no animal products, who uses no drugs and who takes no
pharmaceuticals. Those people are the most emotionally balanced,
compassionate
and healthy individuals you'll ever find. The chances of a green living
person
ever "snapping" and going on a shooting rampage are zero. Search all the
news
archives you want: You'll never find a single case of someone on a
plant-based
diet with no chemicals in their bodies going off and killing people.


It's only people who eat animal products and who take mind-altering
medications that end up committing these violent acts.


Too bad most of the journalists who work for the mainstream media are too
doped up themselves to notice these fairly obvious correlations. Most of
those
folks are on psych meds, too, and you see it in their writing, which
exhibits
an astounding disconnect with reality. The mass medication of people in
America has become so "normal" that journalists no longer think medications
could possibly have any role in aberrant behavior. And so we're left with
the
blind reporting to the blind about events caused by the blind. (In this
case,
"blind" meaning a lack of awareness / consciousness.)


It's a sad, sad state of affairs, and when future historians look back on
why
America failed as a nation, they will probably shake their heads in
disbelief
(or laugh their heads off) over the mass medication of an entire population.
Seriously, our present-day practices of medicating everybody will someday
seem
just as stupid as doctors' use of radiation in the early 20th century to
give
people "more energy." It's true: Doctors often prescribed irradiated pills,
irradiated water and other radioactive substances to their patients,
claiming
they would give them energy. Today, we know the radiation was poisonous and
the practice was stupid, but one thing I've noticed about the history of
medicine is that doctors always manage to find a new scam that keeps them
rich
while poisoning the people. A hundred years ago, it was radiation pills.
Today, it's depression pills. Same scam, different era. Same stupid doctors.
Same gullible population.


There truly is nothing new under the sun.


How Big Pharma recruits mindless soldiers for the Pentagon


Oh, and by the way, on the conspiracy side of things, did you ever wonder
why
it's primarily young boys who are drugged with violence-inducing chemicals?
Notice that violent young men also make highly effective soldiers who can
mindlessly commit violent atrocities against prisoners in secret U.S.
military
bases like, say, Gitmo. The more the U.S. government can drug young men and
cause them to feel nothing, the more easily they can sign them up to go
murder
innocents in whatever country is being targeted next by the imperialist Bush
was machine.


Pharmaceuticals and war go hand in hand, and the more minds that can be
nullified by pharmaceuticals, the more mindless bodies are made available
for
the Pentagon's war machine. And that, of course, is exactly what makes a
good
soldier these days: A mindless body that follows orders, commits violence
and
feels nothing. Funny how Big Pharma just happens to manufacture chemicals
that
accomplish the same thing, huh? You could call it "chemical recruitment" for
the U.S. military. The kid gets put on SSRIs today, and in a few years his
mind will be warped enough to sign up for military service and be told who
to
shoot, torture or kill. And he'll do it without question, because he's been
chemically prepped for the whole experience thanks to modern psychiatry -- a
murderous, evil cabal of Frankenbrain doctors whose arrogance is only
exceeded
by their own lust for power over the minds of the masses.


Care to guess where this is all leading the United States of America? Stay
tuned, and I'll bring you more predictions of the downfall of America in
future articles. Don't be the last to learn what's really coming in this
country. The mass drugging of the population is only a small piece of the
big
picture. For now, stay alert and mindful. Avoid all chemicals. Live green,
and
stay connected with the real world around you (the real world being nature).
Invest in your own education and health, and you'll be better prepared for
the
tidal wave of global changes yet to come -- changes that will shatter the
illusions under which most people live today, and may eventually lead to the
birth of a new civilization no longer based on predatory instincts.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.s...9e543a81342880

Feb 21

Sad, the media's interpretation and reporting of the use of psych meds
relative to the incident. For one thing, the shooter had gone OFF his
meds, which suggests that perhaps had he kept taking them the shooting
might never have occurred. And for another thing, there is no evidence
to suggest psych meds are the cause of violence. Remember the
University of Texas bell tower shooting? There were no medications
involved prior to that incident--just one deranged, mentally ill
student. I think someone is drawing the wrong conclusions.



Well said. This is a fact that the anti-medders ignore.

Both Mark S Probert and Marica are blatant liars.


http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55310

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=56536

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/200..._misdiagnosis/

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter119.htm

Marcia wrote:

Are you saying I "do whatsoever [my] heart desires without following
or respecting normal conventions and protocol?" I say bull****, and
post the facts. You are creating a smear campaign on the order of Carl
Rove. Finally, Jan, have you no shame?


*I* posted. I will post the facts. Period.

Furthermore, you, Mark S Probert, Frank and the *gang* have attacked me.
What's more it has been proven you are a liar.

"Mark Probert" wrote:
On Feb 24, 11:46 pm, " wrote:

Poor, Markey showing his dishonest again and his lying UDP.

UDP/on..


"Jan Drew" wrote in message
et...

"marcia" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 3:15 pm, Mark Probert wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:25 am, marcia wrote:



On Feb 23, 12:20 am, ""marcia" wrote in
message

Restored my points as they are relevant, and you have demonstrated
that you either didn't read them, or didn't understand them.

What you fail to note is that all of these people were apparently
mentally ill. Some mentally ill people, whether treated or not, will
become violent, and some who become violent will commit horrible
crimes. More often, the cause is active psychosis, not a reaction to
the treating medication. Break-through psychosis (meaning they become
sick while on the medication and need an increase or change in their
drugs to become stable again) is fairly common in both schizophrenia
and bipolar disorder. There are at least as many--and likely far
more--
examples that could be cited of people committing violent crimes while
NOT on psychiatric medications.

Further, even if psych meds contributed to violent acts in a few of
the cases cited, the percentage of people committing crimes due to
being medicated is miniscule compared to the percentage of people who
are helped by psych meds. There is no way to tell what percentage of a
completely untreated population would become violent if psych meds
were outlawed, but I suspect it would be far higher than it is now.

You choose to conclude meds are responsible for all the incidents
listed in your previous post, without considering what other factors
come into play. Think about it.

The anti-medders fail to recognize this fact.

If you want some interesting insight into the problem of school
shooting, vist the United StatesSecret Service website and look for
the National Threat Assessment Center link. They studied school
schootings after Columbine as the direction of Bill Clinton. NTAC
knows what it is doing. The anti-medders do not have a clue that they
do not have a clue.

I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark!

NTAC has NO medical trainning.

"Bee" wrote in message
...
On Feb 24, 9:08 pm, Mark Probert wrote:


I'll go with the experts who authoried and led the Safe Schools
Initiative:


I'll go to a link from today's paper about the problem with
prescription drugs,
and the shootings.

http://www.southtownstar.com/news/br...ehmcol.article

Thanks, Bee. So will I.

On Feb 25, 3:20 am, "Jan Drew" wrote:
"Bee" wrote in message

...
On Feb 24, 9:08 pm, Mark Probert wrote:



I'll go with the experts who authoried and led the Safe Schools
Initiative:

I'll go to a link from today's paper about the problem with
prescription drugs,
and the shootings.

http://www.southtownstar.com/news/br...ehmcol.article

Thanks, Bee. So will I.

Right, because some podunk reporter from "Southtown Star" is likely to
be more of an expert than people who actually *are* experts on the
subject.

And FYI to both of you, since my message was completely buried
elsewhere in this thread: I did NOT post personal information about
myself on MHA. Jan did that because it suited her agenda when logic
and reason failed her. Jan drew first blood; my posts prior to that
had been completely ON topic and civil.

Jan: My email address is NOT munged, as anyone who can read a header
will tell you.

I suspect you both watch too much Fox Noise, Bill O'Reilly, Rush
Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and etc., because your behavior mirrors theirs
to a T. You ignore every fact that doesn't fit with your preconceived
beliefs and launch personal attacks against those who hold and express
differing opinions. Remember, Jan, you were the first to sling mud,
whether you and Bee care to remember it that way or not.

And I would like to thank Mark, Frank and Stan for standing up and
championing common decency, despite their messages being lost on the
two of you. Maybe MHA still has a few rational and tolerant readers
who can appreciate their words.

"Frank" blathered

"Jan Drew" wrote in message
t...
Original groups restored.

Liar.

Prove otherwise, spammer.

Done, liar, insulter and harasser.

Groups snipped.

Nota.

Please do not insult dogs.