Bit off more than I can chew, I think :(

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
xkatx wrote:

Yes, I do agree. I have definitely come across far more FAS babies with
major concerns than those born low birth weight due to smoking.

I don't meant to jump on you about smoking, since
you are clearly aware it's a problem and are trying to deal
with it as best you can, but I think the above is inaccurate.

No, it's not inaccurate, as *I* have come across more babies that are
affected by FAS *with* problems than babies with low birth weight due to
smoking.
I never once said that, statistically, there's more babies with FAS than low
birth weight.

First of all, about twice as many women drink during pregnancy
as smoke (near as I can tell from poking around some), so *if*
there are more babies affected by alcohol than by smoking,
that doesn't necessarily say much about the relative risk of
the two behaviors.

I'm not sure about the above statement, so I can't really say much about it.
Again, *I've* seen, personally, more of FASD than low birth weight. I
honestly don't know the numbers for smokers, drinkers, drug users, etc.

Second, if around 12 percent of pregnant women smoke,
and the incidence of low birth weight in th US is 8 percent,
and studies estimate that if all women stopped smoking
immediately once they got pregnant there would be a 35 percent
reduction in low birth weight, then that adds up to a
2.8 percent rate of low birth weight due to smoking.

I would assume the US and Canada are probably around the same numbers as far
as this goes.

The
rate of FAS is about 1/500, or 0.2 percent with about
25 percent of pregnant women surveyed having had some
alcohol during the last month while pregnant.

Again, I would assume here in Canada and there in the US have roughly the
same numbers. The problem with FAS isn't in the last month as much as it is
in the beginning. Come the last month or so, a baby is basically developed
and just gaining weight. Sure, I'm not saying that having a drink during
pregnancy is good, but the last month isn't usually the problem. If a
person has a drink once a week for the first 4 months and a person has a
drink once a week in the last 4 weeks, the effects in the first case *can*
be worse, as the first few months are the biggest development stages.

That still
adds up to smoking being a proportionately riskier
behavior--and that's before adding in *other* risks
associated with prenatal exposure to maternal smoking.

The only issue is, babies with low birth weights almost always catch up.
They *might* have some issues, like asthma, for example, but FASD babies
NEVER catch up. They're affected in a fairly drastic way for life. They
cannot 'catch up' as a low birth weight baby possibly, and often, can and
does.

Now, I wouldn't advocate *either* drinking *or*
smoking during pregnancy, so I'm not saying one should
pick drinking over smoking ;-) Clearly, both behaviors
have risks. I just don't think it's true that there are
more babies with complications due to prenatal alcohol
exposure than due to prenatal exposure to maternal smoking.

....Or smoking over drinking lol
I do agree both have their risks and issues. Neither action is healthy,
pregnant or not. There is a far louder cry about alcohol during pregnancy
than there is for smoking, and it could be because of the long term
problems. 30 years ago, no one really thought twice about smoking or
drinking, really. 30 years from now, or sooner, smoking might have the same
cry that drinking does. At this point, though, FAS babies still do face
higher risks - short term and long term. Babies with low birth weight due
to smoking often have short term problems (again, low birth weight, asthma,
allergies, whatever) but more often in the long run, the effects can't be
compared.

Best wishes,
Ericka

xkatx wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
xkatx wrote:

Yes, I do agree. I have definitely come across far more FAS babies with
major concerns than those born low birth weight due to smoking.
I don't meant to jump on you about smoking, since
you are clearly aware it's a problem and are trying to deal
with it as best you can, but I think the above is inaccurate.

No, it's not inaccurate, as *I* have come across more babies that are
affected by FAS *with* problems than babies with low birth weight due to
smoking.
I never once said that, statistically, there's more babies with FAS than low
birth weight.

Okay, I might buy that (but then again, it would also
seem to me that most people don't know the birth weight of all
the kids they come across).


The
rate of FAS is about 1/500, or 0.2 percent with about
25 percent of pregnant women surveyed having had some
alcohol during the last month while pregnant.

Again, I would assume here in Canada and there in the US have roughly the
same numbers. The problem with FAS isn't in the last month as much as it is
in the beginning. Come the last month or so, a baby is basically developed
and just gaining weight.

Sorry--I wasn't very clear with that. What I should
have said was that when surveyed, about 25 percent of women
said they'd had alcohol in the month prior to when they were
surveyed, not the last month of their pregnancy.

That still
adds up to smoking being a proportionately riskier
behavior--and that's before adding in *other* risks
associated with prenatal exposure to maternal smoking.

The only issue is, babies with low birth weights almost always catch up.
They *might* have some issues, like asthma, for example, but FASD babies
NEVER catch up. They're affected in a fairly drastic way for life. They
cannot 'catch up' as a low birth weight baby possibly, and often, can and
does.

Agreed; however, as you say, low birth weight isn't
the only risk to prenatal exposure to maternal smoking. I
don't want to pile on, since I know you're in a difficult
spot, but there are other serious risks as well, not all of
which are as recoverable. As one example, estimates are that
infant mortality would decrease by 10 percent in the US if
maternal smoking was eliminated.

...Or smoking over drinking lol
I do agree both have their risks and issues. Neither action is healthy,
pregnant or not. There is a far louder cry about alcohol during pregnancy
than there is for smoking, and it could be because of the long term
problems.

Really? That is totally not my perception, and I'm not
sure that the numbers bear it out, either. The perception I've
always received is that smoking is less acceptable than drinking
in pregnancy, and more women drink in pregnancy than smoke, so
it would *seem* that more women buy the idea that some alcohol
consumption is okay than buy then idea that smoking is okay.
Now, that's complicated by the fact that both can be addictive,
so one can't assume that everyone who smokes or drinks while
pregnant thinks it's okay, but having twice as many women
drinking as smoking still seems inconsistent with the idea
that smoking during pregnancy is more acceptable. I will
agree that there is more of an effort lately to go after
maternal drinking, partly because the numbers are still
so high.

30 years ago, no one really thought twice about smoking or
drinking, really. 30 years from now, or sooner, smoking might have the same
cry that drinking does. At this point, though, FAS babies still do face
higher risks - short term and long term.

I think that is debatable. The risk of FAS with moderate
alcohol consumption is lower than the risk of problems due to
smoking with moderate smoking, and in most cases, the exposure
to maternal smoking will continue after birth, adding more
risks. In terms of a numbers game, I don't think it's so
obviously tilted towards the risks of alcohol use, though the
risks of alcohol use may be more apparent to the casual observer.
(And while FAS is very serious, most babies born with FAS will
have IQs in the normal range.)

Babies with low birth weight due
to smoking often have short term problems (again, low birth weight, asthma,
allergies, whatever) but more often in the long run, the effects can't be
compared.

I don't know. There are a number of long term
health effects associated with maternal smoking, not all of
which are recoverable.

Again, the good news is that with both alcohol and
smoking, there is a dose-response pattern, so cutting down
does help if you can't quit entirely.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:


One other factor I didn't see mentioned here (though I only skimmed.)
Most women who are heavy drinkers (the sort of drinking associated with
FAS) ALSO smoke. (Around 90% of alcoholics smoke, and most of them
smoke heavily.) So it's not always possible to determine what FAS
damage is related to the alcohol, and what to the nicotine.

Naomi

wrote:

One other factor I didn't see mentioned here (though I only skimmed.)
Most women who are heavy drinkers (the sort of drinking associated with
FAS) ALSO smoke. (Around 90% of alcoholics smoke, and most of them
smoke heavily.) So it's not always possible to determine what FAS
damage is related to the alcohol, and what to the nicotine.

True, and certainly it's very likely that those
who do one or the other are better off than those who
do both, just as those who smoke or drink less are better
off than those who smoke or drink more ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
xkatx wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
xkatx wrote:

Yes, I do agree. I have definitely come across far more FAS
babies with major concerns than those born low birth weight due to
smoking.
I don't meant to jump on you about smoking, since
you are clearly aware it's a problem and are trying to deal
with it as best you can, but I think the above is inaccurate.

No, it's not inaccurate, as *I* have come across more babies that are
affected by FAS *with* problems than babies with low birth weight
due to smoking.
I never once said that, statistically, there's more babies with FAS
than low birth weight.

Okay, I might buy that (but then again, it would also
seem to me that most people don't know the birth weight of all
the kids they come across).


The
rate of FAS is about 1/500, or 0.2 percent with about
25 percent of pregnant women surveyed having had some
alcohol during the last month while pregnant.

Again, I would assume here in Canada and there in the US have
roughly the same numbers. The problem with FAS isn't in the last
month as much as it is in the beginning. Come the last month or so,
a baby is basically developed and just gaining weight.

Sorry--I wasn't very clear with that. What I should
have said was that when surveyed, about 25 percent of women
said they'd had alcohol in the month prior to when they were
surveyed, not the last month of their pregnancy.

That still
adds up to smoking being a proportionately riskier
behavior--and that's before adding in *other* risks
associated with prenatal exposure to maternal smoking.

The only issue is, babies with low birth weights almost always catch
up. They *might* have some issues, like asthma, for example, but
FASD babies NEVER catch up. They're affected in a fairly drastic
way for life. They cannot 'catch up' as a low birth weight baby
possibly, and often, can and does.

Agreed; however, as you say, low birth weight isn't
the only risk to prenatal exposure to maternal smoking. I
don't want to pile on, since I know you're in a difficult
spot, but there are other serious risks as well, not all of
which are as recoverable. As one example, estimates are that
infant mortality would decrease by 10 percent in the US if
maternal smoking was eliminated.

...Or smoking over drinking lol
I do agree both have their risks and issues. Neither action is
healthy, pregnant or not. There is a far louder cry about alcohol
during pregnancy than there is for smoking, and it could be because
of the long term problems.

Really? That is totally not my perception, and I'm not
sure that the numbers bear it out, either. The perception I've
always received is that smoking is less acceptable than drinking
in pregnancy, and more women drink in pregnancy than smoke, so
it would *seem* that more women buy the idea that some alcohol
consumption is okay than buy then idea that smoking is okay.
Now, that's complicated by the fact that both can be addictive,
so one can't assume that everyone who smokes or drinks while
pregnant thinks it's okay, but having twice as many women
drinking as smoking still seems inconsistent with the idea
that smoking during pregnancy is more acceptable. I will
agree that there is more of an effort lately to go after
maternal drinking, partly because the numbers are still
so high.


I was going to say what Ericka said here. This may be a Canada verses US
thing too. I don't know anyone in my circle who smokes. I can't think of
anyone that I know, casually or not, young or old, in my neighborhood or my
wide list of aquantances in real life who smokes. But Kat says that
everyone in her circle smokes. So that also changes your perception of the
world.
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03
Addison Grace, 9/30/04

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1,
Password: Guest Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up
your own User ID and Password

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
. ..
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
xkatx wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
xkatx wrote:

Yes, I do agree. I have definitely come across far more FAS
babies with major concerns than those born low birth weight due to
smoking.
I don't meant to jump on you about smoking, since
you are clearly aware it's a problem and are trying to deal
with it as best you can, but I think the above is inaccurate.

No, it's not inaccurate, as *I* have come across more babies that are
affected by FAS *with* problems than babies with low birth weight
due to smoking.
I never once said that, statistically, there's more babies with FAS
than low birth weight.

Okay, I might buy that (but then again, it would also
seem to me that most people don't know the birth weight of all
the kids they come across).


The
rate of FAS is about 1/500, or 0.2 percent with about
25 percent of pregnant women surveyed having had some
alcohol during the last month while pregnant.

Again, I would assume here in Canada and there in the US have
roughly the same numbers. The problem with FAS isn't in the last
month as much as it is in the beginning. Come the last month or so,
a baby is basically developed and just gaining weight.

Sorry--I wasn't very clear with that. What I should
have said was that when surveyed, about 25 percent of women
said they'd had alcohol in the month prior to when they were
surveyed, not the last month of their pregnancy.

That still
adds up to smoking being a proportionately riskier
behavior--and that's before adding in *other* risks
associated with prenatal exposure to maternal smoking.

The only issue is, babies with low birth weights almost always catch
up. They *might* have some issues, like asthma, for example, but
FASD babies NEVER catch up. They're affected in a fairly drastic
way for life. They cannot 'catch up' as a low birth weight baby
possibly, and often, can and does.

Agreed; however, as you say, low birth weight isn't
the only risk to prenatal exposure to maternal smoking. I
don't want to pile on, since I know you're in a difficult
spot, but there are other serious risks as well, not all of
which are as recoverable. As one example, estimates are that
infant mortality would decrease by 10 percent in the US if
maternal smoking was eliminated.

...Or smoking over drinking lol
I do agree both have their risks and issues. Neither action is
healthy, pregnant or not. There is a far louder cry about alcohol
during pregnancy than there is for smoking, and it could be because
of the long term problems.

Really? That is totally not my perception, and I'm not
sure that the numbers bear it out, either. The perception I've
always received is that smoking is less acceptable than drinking
in pregnancy, and more women drink in pregnancy than smoke, so
it would *seem* that more women buy the idea that some alcohol
consumption is okay than buy then idea that smoking is okay.
Now, that's complicated by the fact that both can be addictive,
so one can't assume that everyone who smokes or drinks while
pregnant thinks it's okay, but having twice as many women
drinking as smoking still seems inconsistent with the idea
that smoking during pregnancy is more acceptable. I will
agree that there is more of an effort lately to go after
maternal drinking, partly because the numbers are still
so high.


I was going to say what Ericka said here. This may be a Canada verses US
thing too. I don't know anyone in my circle who smokes. I can't think of
anyone that I know, casually or not, young or old, in my neighborhood or
my wide list of aquantances in real life who smokes. But Kat says that
everyone in her circle smokes. So that also changes your perception of
the world.

Well, as I was thinking, when I was pg with DD last year, there was also 7
others I knew who were pg at the same time as well (we were all due within a
couple months from the first one born until the last one)
Of those, 2 were not smokers (weren't smokers while not pg either). 1 was a
'casual' smoker and the rest of us were basically 'smokers' - as in more
than just the odd cigarette on occasion. Not a single one of us drank even
one alcoholic beverage of any sort while pregnant, nor did any of us do any
type of drugs, unless you want to count the odd Tylenol or something. The
smallest baby was from my cousin - her daughter was 6.5ish lbs at birth
(can't remember exactly her weight) and this was one of the non-smokers (and
her first baby, I think she was 6 days late). The biggest baby was a girl
friend, with a boy who was 8lbs 11oz, second baby and I think 5 days late
and she is a smoker. The rest were somewhere in between in weight, but all
the babies were around average for birth weight, smokers or not. Even my
cousin's baby, who was quite a bit smaller than the next smallest, is a
giant now. She's just over a year and is around the same size as my DD, who
had about a pound on her for birth weight.
Again, with everything, it's kind of a hit or miss. You can do everything
'right' and still have some sort of problem. You can do everything 'wrong'
and have no problem (and vice versa, of course) A girl friend's SO's cousin
had a baby a few months ago - this mother did everything 'right' - took
prenatal vitamins, was never a smoker, never a drinker, never used drugs,
had a very healthy diet and lifestyle, just your text book pregnancy, and
her baby was born with a heart defect. I smoked, my friend smoked, we both
had average sized babies with no problems at all. It's never a guarantee
for a perfectly healthy or sick baby no matter what you do or don't do.
Here, definitely, it seems there's more mothers who smoke than drink during
pregnancy.
It seems everywhere you look, you see all kinds of posters, signs, etc.,
that say volumes about drinking and FAS, but not too much - at this point -
about smoking. Not yet, anyways. Everyone in their right mind knows
smoking and drinking isn't healthy either way. If possible, obviously you'd
want to steer clear of all that, especially when pregnant!