calm before the storm?

Subject: calm before the storm?
From: "xkatx" .
Date: 4/20/2004 12:33 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: bhchc.188373$Ig.33895@pd7tw2no

snip
Joelle, it's called ignorance, and if someone has very little information
and facts about something, they are ignorant. It's not always a bad thing,
really, because I don't believe that ignorance is always intentional. I'll
also agree with what you said and I think you said it well enough that I
don't need to add anything.

I am not ignorant, I am entitled to believe my blood doesn't get adopted, we
take care of our own.My belief my choice I never said adoption was not a good
thing for others if they so choose. I also think some people choose iot cause
they are selfish. My opinion and I am entitled to it as you are yours but I am
not ignorant honey.

Again, and often as always, I have to agree with Joelle. I don't think such
instability is good for any child at any age. Having a completely
neglectful mother isn't a good thing ever, and all this stress on you does
not really help anything at all. You're going to burn yourself out even
faster and then you'll be hurting yourself and your loved ones even more if
that happens.

If somewhere I gave the immpression my daughter is being completely neglectful
then I am sorry . My daughter has been pulling away and getting out of the care
of the baby as often as possible even sleeping much more than normal. She had
the depo shot 3 months ago for birth control and has been bleeding for 3 months
and they say this is normal for some to do this for up to a year. Maybe she is
almost dead. **** has happened and **** will be dealt with if anyone thinks for
one moment so little of me as a person that I would allow any harm to come to
the baby you just don't know me . That is not me o.k. oh and did I say I am not
ignorant.


Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

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Subject: calm before the storm?
From: "'Kate
Date: 4/18/2004 2:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
snip

but do I want to teach her it is o.k. to do this to her own child? That she
can
throw away a child like a toy that she has lost interest in ? You may be
right, but I am holding this kid to her choices, I never turned my back on
her
and she will learn to stand up to her own responsibility. Wake up baby !
this
was your decision, reality has a name... Jaime-Gayle........



That's not the issue. The issue is that the mother has already made the
decision that the child is unimportant. You can't change that... she's
overwhelmed and she's reaching out in harmful ways. You're going to have
to make her understand that giving the baby up, whether it is
temporarily or permanently, is the only good choice.


I don't know Kate I read you and I don't........since when is it so wonderful
to quit so easy . To give up on *family" first sign of trouble? I am confused
cause so many people keep saying what is best is to give up the baby? It is not
best to immediately pack up baby and be gone with her at the first sign of a
glitch in the going. The going has been tougher in the past and giving up on
keeping this family together seems unfair . They are children yes but there is
a baby involved that by chance these kids could be great parents to and if I
and Mari are willing to help them through the ups and downs and climbing outta
the barrel bottom struggles that even adult parents have to do sometimes then
why is it so wrong ? Why can't this baby be o.k. right where she is. She is
loved beyond the deepest ocean. When I was struggling with Gayles death and
began drinking and closing down there were many people involved in our family
people that could have decided Sara should be removed and ya know what that
never happened and These people understood it was a fixable condition I had.
Well I think this is as well a fixable condition Sara is going through and to
jump to removing this baby from our lives just makes no sense to me. Where is
anyone that understands the dynamics of the fact that families struggle and
kids survive? We were all babies once how much of your first few years do you
remember?I don't think the answer is removing the baby.


I know you mean well by suggesting adoption.......I know it is
there........We
considered it.......it is too late now , I am hooked, I love my
granddaughter
and if my daughter can not do this I can and I will. I thought about this as
well "what if" and talked it over with my partner...we discussed abortion,
adoption ,and the end result was to take care of my daughters child should
my
daughter not be able to at this time. My daughter and her boyfriend were
the
main part of this decision, they were determined to have this baby and I
certainly did not want them to run away feeling unsupported. She got
pregnant
for all the wrong reasons I am sure , she was replacing an emptiness , and
she
is struggling but there are many reasons for the struggle, I don't think she
does not want the baby, I need to get her back into counsiling and have the
"why" looked at.Yes I am willing to care for my granddaughter, Untill my
daughter is ready or not .

Ok.. but y our first responsibility is to YOUR daughter and you can't do
that while taking care of your granddaughter. It will be putting one
person's needs before the other's and the baby will come first. That's
not in the best interest of your daughter. You don't have a choice but
to take care of your daughter first.. she needs you more than the baby
needs you.

Now Now Kate , What have mothers of multiple children done all these years? Yes
my daughter has issues to be taken care of first and foremost, but how will my
(having help ) caring for my granddaughter as well not work? As any household
with multiple children to care for at the same time , I mean hello knocking on
the door to your inteligence jokingI know you raised more than one at a
time?
Bev

'Kate

Whats that Joelle? Using a wonderful program
such as adoption as an escape from being responsible to your children ? I

Okay fine. Use your grandchild to teach your daughter a lesson. That's right.
I'm done with you.

Just one word of advice. When you want to teach your grandaughter about
responsibity...I suggest a puppy.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

"Joelle" wrote in message
...
Whats that Joelle? Using a wonderful program
such as adoption as an escape from being responsible to your children ? I

Okay fine. Use your grandchild to teach your daughter a lesson. That's
right.
I'm done with you.

Just one word of advice. When you want to teach your grandaughter about
responsibity...I suggest a puppy.

I have a hunch that it is not only her grandchild that she 'uses'


Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
...
Subject: calm before the storm?
From: "Tiffany"
Date: 4/18/2004 11:32 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"Paul Fritz" wrote in message
...

"Purchgdss" wrote in message
...
You don't mention how old the baby is......

My best suggestion, If the baby is less than 2, put her up for
adoption.
Your
daughter has shown that the fantasy has disappated and the reality
is
too much
for her. If she were to go to JD (Jail) the child would be
floating
between
caregivers the whole time. THE CHILD NEEDS Stability. you or the
father or
HIS MOM will wind up taking on the parenting.... If you aren't
willing
to do
that, then the child needs to go to someone who is....



Just my 2 cents.........
Christine


It is not her or the mother's sole choice. With the father involved
he
would have to agree as well, or could sue for full custody, with the
mother
than responsible for paying CS. With the paternal grandparent(s)
involved,
that may be the best scenario for the child




Well, lets hope that no decision that major would be made with out
consulting the father. As young as he is, he seems to be taking way more
responsibility then the mother. I just think if an adoption would have
taken
place, it would have been far easier at birth. But you are correct, it
seems
better for the baby to be with paternal grandparents, if they are able.

T



Ya know T get outta Pauls ass O.K. its showing. Seems you don't even know
me
and assume My ability to take care of my granddaughter is any less than
the
PATERNAL grandparents who I might add have done nothing so far to help
these
kids. You don't even know them and think this baby would be better off
with
them please stop making an ass outta yourself.
Repeat after me "I do not need a man to be someone"


I don't need a women either Bev. Did you miss the part about consulting the
father of the baby? Ignoring that part eh? I don't know if the paternal
grandparents are better or not but I can see from all your posts that your
WHOLE family needs help. I personally stick to my original posts, if you
recall them.

Throwing insults and telling me I don't need a man is just childish. Yep...
childish.

T

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
...
Subject: calm before the storm?
From: "Tiffany"
Date: 4/18/2004 11:32 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"Paul Fritz" wrote in message
...

"Purchgdss" wrote in message
...
You don't mention how old the baby is......

My best suggestion, If the baby is less than 2, put her up for
adoption.
Your
daughter has shown that the fantasy has disappated and the
reality
is
too much
for her. If she were to go to JD (Jail) the child would be
floating
between
caregivers the whole time. THE CHILD NEEDS Stability. you or
the
father or
HIS MOM will wind up taking on the parenting.... If you aren't
willing
to do
that, then the child needs to go to someone who is....



Just my 2 cents.........
Christine


It is not her or the mother's sole choice. With the father
involved
he
would have to agree as well, or could sue for full custody, with the
mother
than responsible for paying CS. With the paternal grandparent(s)
involved,
that may be the best scenario for the child




Well, lets hope that no decision that major would be made with out
consulting the father. As young as he is, he seems to be taking way
more
responsibility then the mother. I just think if an adoption would have
taken
place, it would have been far easier at birth. But you are correct, it
seems
better for the baby to be with paternal grandparents, if they are able.

T



Ya know T get outta Pauls ass O.K. its showing. Seems you don't even
know
me
and assume My ability to take care of my granddaughter is any less than
the
PATERNAL grandparents who I might add have done nothing so far to help
these
kids. You don't even know them and think this baby would be better off
with
them please stop making an ass outta yourself.
Repeat after me "I do not need a man to be someone"


I don't need a women either Bev. Did you miss the part about consulting
the
father of the baby? Ignoring that part eh? I don't know if the paternal
grandparents are better or not but I can see from all your posts that your
WHOLE family needs help. I personally stick to my original posts, if you
recall them.

Throwing insults and telling me I don't need a man is just childish.
Yep...
childish.

T

Dysfuntional breeds dysfunctional breeds dysfunctional

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
...
Subject: calm before the storm?
From: "'Kate
Date: 4/18/2004 2:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
snip

but do I want to teach her it is o.k. to do this to her own child? That
she
can
throw away a child like a toy that she has lost interest in ? You may
be
right, but I am holding this kid to her choices, I never turned my back
on
her
and she will learn to stand up to her own responsibility. Wake up baby !
this
was your decision, reality has a name... Jaime-Gayle........



That's not the issue. The issue is that the mother has already made the
decision that the child is unimportant. You can't change that... she's
overwhelmed and she's reaching out in harmful ways. You're going to have
to make her understand that giving the baby up, whether it is
temporarily or permanently, is the only good choice.


I don't know Kate I read you and I don't........since when is it so
wonderful
to quit so easy . To give up on *family" first sign of trouble? I am
confused
cause so many people keep saying what is best is to give up the baby?

Best for the BABY....................NOT YOU

It is not
best to immediately pack up baby and be gone with her at the first sign of
a
glitch in the going. The going has been tougher in the past and giving up
on
keeping this family together seems unfair . They are children yes but
there is
a baby involved that by chance these kids could be great parents to and if
I
and Mari are willing to help them through the ups and downs and climbing
outta
the barrel bottom struggles that even adult parents have to do sometimes
then
why is it so wrong ? Why can't this baby be o.k. right where she is.

Dysfuntional breeding dysfunctional, breeding dyfunctional.....got a clue
yet.

She is
loved beyond the deepest ocean. When I was struggling with Gayles death
and
began drinking and closing down

Nice to see you put your kids ahead of yourself........NOT........just more
proof how selfish you are.

there were many people involved in our family
people that could have decided Sara should be removed and ya know what
that
never happened and These people understood it was a fixable condition I
had.
Well I think this is as well a fixable condition Sara is going through and
to
jump to removing this baby from our lives just makes no sense to me. Where
is
anyone that understands the dynamics of the fact that families struggle
and
kids survive? We were all babies once how much of your first few years do
you
remember?

Dysfuntional breeding dysfunctional, breeding dyfunctional.....got a clue
yet..

Kids survive to repeat the same dismal pattern you set for them.

I don't think the answer is removing the baby.

just more proof how selfish you are



I know you mean well by suggesting adoption.......I know it is
there........We
considered it.......it is too late now , I am hooked, I love my
granddaughter
and if my daughter can not do this I can and I will. I thought about
this as
well "what if" and talked it over with my partner...we discussed
abortion,
adoption ,and the end result was to take care of my daughters child
should
my
daughter not be able to at this time. My daughter and her boyfriend
were
the
main part of this decision, they were determined to have this baby and I
certainly did not want them to run away feeling unsupported. She got
pregnant
for all the wrong reasons I am sure , she was replacing an emptiness ,
and
she
is struggling but there are many reasons for the struggle, I don't think
she
does not want the baby, I need to get her back into counsiling and have
the
"why" looked at.Yes I am willing to care for my granddaughter, Untill my
daughter is ready or not .

Ok.. but y our first responsibility is to YOUR daughter and you can't do
that while taking care of your granddaughter. It will be putting one
person's needs before the other's and the baby will come first. That's
not in the best interest of your daughter. You don't have a choice but
to take care of your daughter first.. she needs you more than the baby
needs you.

Now Now Kate , What have mothers of multiple children done all these
years? Yes
my daughter has issues to be taken care of first and foremost,

but you put yourself first anyway.

but how will my
(having help ) caring for my granddaughter as well not work?

because you put yourself first just like the selfish person you are.

As any household
with multiple children to care for at the same time , I mean hello
knocking on
the door to your inteligence jokingI know you raised more than one at a
time?

You screwed up your own kids lifes, now you want to screw up the grand kids
as well.....how selfish

Bev

'Kate

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message ...
Subject: calm before the storm?
From: "xkatx"
Date: 4/20/2004 12:33 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:
snip
Joelle, it's called ignorance, and if someone has very little information
and facts about something, they are ignorant. It's not always a bad
thing,
really, because I don't believe that ignorance is always intentional.
I'll
also agree with what you said and I think you said it well enough that I
don't need to add anything.

I am not ignorant, I am entitled to believe my blood doesn't get adopted,
we
take care of our own.My belief my choice I never said adoption was not a
good
thing for others if they so choose. I also think some people choose iot
cause
they are selfish. My opinion and I am entitled to it as you are yours but
I am
not ignorant honey.

It doesn't really matter. Your attitude and choice of words has shown
little but ignorance, and I'm not sure if you know the meaning of ignorance.
If you really believe that some people choose adoption as a way to go
because they are selfish, that is just one more ignorant line you've come up
with.

Again, and often as always, I have to agree with Joelle. I don't think
such
instability is good for any child at any age. Having a completely
neglectful mother isn't a good thing ever, and all this stress on you
does
not really help anything at all. You're going to burn yourself out even
faster and then you'll be hurting yourself and your loved ones even more
if
that happens.

If somewhere I gave the immpression my daughter is being completely
neglectful
then I am sorry . My daughter has been pulling away and getting out of the
care
of the baby as often as possible even sleeping much more than normal. She
had
the depo shot 3 months ago for birth control and has been bleeding for 3
months
and they say this is normal for some to do this for up to a year. Maybe
she is
almost dead. **** has happened and **** will be dealt with if anyone
thinks for
one moment so little of me as a person that I would allow any harm to come
to
the baby you just don't know me . That is not me o.k. oh and did I say I
am not
ignorant.

Again, you've just pointed out that your daughter has been neglectful when
you said, "My daughter has been pulling away and getting out of the care of
the baby as often as possible even sleeping much more than normal". You are
Grandma, she is Mom. She is the one who decided to have sex, have a baby
and now it's long past her due date to grow up and realize that she is now
responsible for a baby. You are not this infant's mother, and by your
daughter pulling away and getting out of the care of the baby as often as
possible, you've expressed that you've basically been the one who feeds the
baby and all that comes with being a parent. You have a beautiful
granddaughter that, I'm sure, needs and loves you very much, but not seeing
that your daughter, the baby's mother, is being neglectful shows more
ignorance.
Being neglectful does not always mean ignoring a baby. You can neglect your
child in so many ways, including pulling away from it or avoiding your
parental responsibilities. If you sleep all day, or even more than normal,
and let your parental responsibilities slide onto the lap of the next
person, that is neglectful on the part of the parent.
I'm not trying to be mean or start some type of fight or anger, but really,
your little girl, still just a child herself, had made the choice to play
grown-ups and now that little game has become a cold and hard reality that
needs some serious thought and consideration put into it. Put your own
thoughts and feelings aside for just a moment, if possible.


Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message ...
Subject: calm before the storm?
From: (Joelle)
Date: 4/18/2004 1:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

but do I want to teach her it is o.k. to do this to her own child? That
she
can
throw away a child like a toy that she has lost interest in

do you realize how many people you have just insulted with that
understanding
of adoption. Giving the baby up for adoption is the most unselfish,
responsible, loving thing your daughter and her boyfriend can do for that
baby.

I am sorry you misunderstood what I am saying here Joelle, Yes adoption is
an
unselfish choice for some . I made a commitment a promise to my daughter
and
her boyfriend to help them if they chose to have this baby and they chose
to. I
have kept my word and I expect them to as well 4 months later is not the
time
to decide to abandon this responsibility. If they do I will climb
mountains of
burning trees to adopt this child myself she is my blood and at that point
I
will raise her.

Adoption is the most unselfish thing for ALL who have gone through that
experience. Adoption is NOT about abandoning responsibility. It's TAKING
ON the responsibility to provide a loving and STABLE home for another human
being when that isn't available otherwise.
For arguments sake, if the above were to happen and you then you became the
legal guardian of Jaime, what happens if and when your daughter finally
smartens up, after your granddaughter is being raised by you? Would you be
then willing to hand her over to your daughter to take on her original
parental responsibilities or will it cause even more problems? Will this be
one year from now? Ten years from now? Who knows?

You don't make her take care of her baby to punish her or teach her a
lesson.
She's a child. She's not capable of raising a child. Admitting that and
letting an adult give that child a future is not a bad thing.

I am not punishing her , I am expecting her to stand up to her
responsibility
there is a difference. If she can not be the parent and her boyfriend can
not
be the parent I can care for this baby and that is what I am saying NO
Adopting
out my flesh and blood granddaughter . Now I am intitled to what i morally
believe.

As you are definitely welcome to your own beliefs, so am I. Pure ignorance.

.We
considered it.......it is too late now , I am hooked, I love my
granddaughter

It's not too late. Stop thinking of yourself and how much you will miss
the
baby. Look at what a mess that baby is in. You cannot take care of that
baby
yourself, because your daughter, her mother and her messed up life is
always
going to be interfering and screwing with the child.

Whose messed up life are you refering to ?
How do you know I can not give this baby a healthy loving home? I admit to
issues in my home because I am honest and that makes my ability as a
parent
**** Joelle? I got a boulder for your glass house, how does that sound ?
There
are no perfect homes , no perfect people , and I sure know you have made
mistakes in your own life and you are certainly far from perfect .
Jaime is a very happy baby and she has more love surrounding her than many
children who end up in foster care or adoption..........who are starved ,
beaten sexually assualted and murdered there in those scenarios as well in
those homes as well preacher.

Maybe you can give this baby a healthy and loving home. EVERY household and
family has their issues, and you're right - NO family is perfect in every
way. If you really do want a healthy and loving home that provides for this
child, then why wait? Why pass this infant around from home to home to
home? I really wouldn't want to grow up wondering where my home really is.
I wouldn't want to grow up wondering how long it will be before Home #2 gets
tired of me and ships me off to Home #1. Then when I wear out my welcome in
Home #1, I wouldn't want to wonder if Home #3 will take me or if I'll have
to go back to Home #2. This baby deserves more than what it seems she's
getting. She deserves a loving, safe, stable, welcome, warm and familiar
ground to grow in.
How happy will Jaime be when she's old enough to wonder why her Mama has
been distancing herself from her? I just don't believe that to be fair, and
I'm sure you have your own beliefs as well.
Here, there is no way that an adoptive family would even be considered a
spot on the waiting lists if they were so dysfunctional and sick that they
would be starving or beating children. No idea where you are from, but out
here families nearly go through hell and back to be able to have a child to
love and raise and care for. Babies aren't just handed out like candies in
a dish at the restaurant you ate at last week. Same goes with foster
families. If you really look into it, you'll find out amazing things about
it all, and really, I'm sure, a lot of things would surprise you. There are
less children abused in the foster system and in families brought together
by adoption than there are in your "natural" family households.

I don't sense that you have thought about this in terms of the baby at
all.
All you've thought about is your daughter, teaching your daughter a
lesson,
supporting your daughter, yourself, your partner, what you want, what you
love,
how you feel.

Step back from all that and think of what is best for that baby.

Yep that is exactly everything I have thought of and *we* are whats best
for
Jaime, her family her not so perfect family.
Bev

Again, your family is NOT perfect, nor is mine, or anyone else around here,
for that matter. We ALL have our faults, we ALL have our issues, problems
and dirty laundry. It really does take more than just your own flesh and
blood to make a family.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

"Bebelestrnge0721" wrote in message
...
Subject: calm before the storm?
From: "'Kate
Date: 4/18/2004 2:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
snip

but do I want to teach her it is o.k. to do this to her own child? That
she
can
throw away a child like a toy that she has lost interest in ? You may
be
right, but I am holding this kid to her choices, I never turned my back
on
her
and she will learn to stand up to her own responsibility. Wake up baby !
this
was your decision, reality has a name... Jaime-Gayle........



That's not the issue. The issue is that the mother has already made the
decision that the child is unimportant. You can't change that... she's
overwhelmed and she's reaching out in harmful ways. You're going to have
to make her understand that giving the baby up, whether it is
temporarily or permanently, is the only good choice.


I don't know Kate I read you and I don't........since when is it so
wonderful
to quit so easy . To give up on *family" first sign of trouble? I am
confused
cause so many people keep saying what is best is to give up the baby? It
is not
best to immediately pack up baby and be gone with her at the first sign of
a
glitch in the going.

Two words: Open Adoption.

The going has been tougher in the past and giving up on
keeping this family together seems unfair . They are children yes but
there is
a baby involved that by chance these kids could be great parents to and if
I
and Mari are willing to help them through the ups and downs and climbing
outta
the barrel bottom struggles that even adult parents have to do sometimes
then
why is it so wrong ?

These 'children' are no longer children because of their own decisions and
choices and actions. Really, their childhood is now gone for good, and it's
something they probably won't ever get back, and if they do, it will be when
that baby comes of age. They are, physically, children, but children in
that way only. They now need to be big people, grown ups, but that doesn't
really seem to be happening.

Why can't this baby be o.k. right where she is. She is
loved beyond the deepest ocean. When I was struggling with Gayles death
and
began drinking and closing down there were many people involved in our
family
people that could have decided Sara should be removed and ya know what
that
never happened and These people understood it was a fixable condition I
had.
Well I think this is as well a fixable condition Sara is going through and
to
jump to removing this baby from our lives just makes no sense to me. Where
is
anyone that understands the dynamics of the fact that families struggle
and
kids survive? We were all babies once how much of your first few years do
you
remember?I don't think the answer is removing the baby.

I don't see how what a person actually remembers in their first couple years
of life is relevant. I have memories of the day my brother was born, and I
was a month shy of my third birthday, yet I can remember, clearly, getting
into the elevator at the hospital thinking my dad was right behind me to
turn around and find out he wasn't and that I was on my way down the
elevator alone. I remember exactly how I felt then, and that's something
that no one really could have put into my head to remember. In a couple
years, this baby will be making memories of her own and will things be any
different in a couple years? Maybe it is the right time to put your
intentions into motion before it really is too late.



I know you mean well by suggesting adoption.......I know it is
there........We
considered it.......it is too late now , I am hooked, I love my
granddaughter
and if my daughter can not do this I can and I will. I thought about
this as
well "what if" and talked it over with my partner...we discussed
abortion,
adoption ,and the end result was to take care of my daughters child
should
my
daughter not be able to at this time. My daughter and her boyfriend
were
the
main part of this decision, they were determined to have this baby and I
certainly did not want them to run away feeling unsupported. She got
pregnant
for all the wrong reasons I am sure , she was replacing an emptiness ,
and
she
is struggling but there are many reasons for the struggle, I don't think
she
does not want the baby, I need to get her back into counsiling and have
the
"why" looked at.Yes I am willing to care for my granddaughter, Untill my
daughter is ready or not .

Ok.. but y our first responsibility is to YOUR daughter and you can't do
that while taking care of your granddaughter. It will be putting one
person's needs before the other's and the baby will come first. That's
not in the best interest of your daughter. You don't have a choice but
to take care of your daughter first.. she needs you more than the baby
needs you.

Now Now Kate , What have mothers of multiple children done all these
years? Yes
my daughter has issues to be taken care of first and foremost, but how
will my
(having help ) caring for my granddaughter as well not work? As any
household
with multiple children to care for at the same time , I mean hello
knocking on
the door to your inteligence jokingI know you raised more than one at a
time?
Bev

Ugh. This is just too much for one night. I'm not going to go on.
Hopefully everything works out for Jaime FIRST, then for you. Best of luck.
I have nothing else to say tonight.


'Kate







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