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#121
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 21, 6:53�am, NL wrote:
Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't something we chose to do, it was something that happened. I can't think of a reason why choosing *responsibly* to be a single mother would be a problem either (not that I think that's what you meant). I know one woman who adopted a child as a single woman, one who has twice had babies by artificial insemination, etc. And that's just in real life -- on the internet I know far more examples. --Helen |
#122
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Apr 20, 3:45*pm, agsf_57 wrote:
It's the same concept. Women want to marry rich men so they can spend their days watching Oprah and go shopping. You are trolling. There do exist lazy women and lazy men, but that is an insulting generalization. |
#123
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article , NL says...
Jamie Clark schrieb: "NL" wrote in message ... agsf_57 schrieb: On Apr 19, 5:38 am, Banty wrote: snip And you don't even realize you just said this to an unwed single mother in America huh. Banty Then you should have first hand experience of what I am saying. It's you and your child. No one to help you in life. No one to put their life on the line for you and your child. You were some guy's temporary toilet. Your level of respect and value is the same as of that toilet. You go girl! Regards... Have you ever heard the term widow? Not agreeing with the troll, but technically speaking, you are not an unwed single mother. You're a widow. I'm sorry for your loss. Eh no. I'm not a widow. I was just trying to say that jumping down single mothers throats, calling them temporary toilet might not be such a smart thing to do because generally single moms didn't turn into single moms by waking up one day and deciding "hey, raising children on my own, that's what I want to do with my life." for lots of us it wasn't something we chose to do, it was something that happened. It's just that somehow in most peoples minds single mothers are the root of all evil and we must be... weeded out. And also, something must be really wrong with us because we didn't manage to hang on to the father of our child(ren). And we're really the ones to blame for the children not growing up in a happy family. Well, I left because I was beaten, kicked and verbally abused. I don't think that's a healthy relationship/family to grow up in. I think being a single parent family is much more healthy than a family where abuse happens regularly. But of course I'm cheating my child out of a wonderful relationship with his other parent... sure. Or, that *most* by far, people do not demonize single mothers, any more than they demonize divorced people anymore, being as just about everyone knows people who are single mothers by many various paths (which include things, like - adoption as a single person) amongst their sisters, daughters, coworkers, neighbors. We have politicians pointing to their upbringing by single mothers, by golly. I think their polsters would have alerted them to this pervasive revulsion against single moms! And can we now please stop feeding the troll? cu nicole Yes, please. I blocked him ages ago, so only see the troll feeding posts, not the original. I wish everyone would. I did, too. But this just really struck me as something to speak up about.. Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with. He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with. Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D Banty |
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
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#125
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
Banty schrieb:
Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with. He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with. See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****. Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D see above :-P (Sorry, I could so not resist that one...) cu nicole |
#126
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
"NL" wrote in message
... Banty schrieb: Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with. He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with. See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****. I agree. That's why I consider him a troll -- he's trolling the groups looking to stir things up. It would be like if I went out and hung around on Alt.Support.Childfree and talked on an on about my kids, and how everyone should have kids and those who don't are immature, selfish and self-centered. Even though I do wonder what he uses his toilet for.... ;-D see above :-P (Sorry, I could so not resist that one...) cu nicole -- Jamie Clark |
#127
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article , Jamie Clark says...
"NL" wrote in message ... Banty schrieb: Agsf is not a troll. A troll isn't just anybody a lot of people disagree with. He's out in left (um, right) field on his ideas, and way out of the ballpark on some of his facts. But that a troll doesn't make. He *has* had good ideas to contribute, (he's a person, and a caring father, not a hairy beast), and does represent a certain turn of mind that we all need to deal with. See, personally, I think he just likes stirring ****. I agree. That's why I consider him a troll -- he's trolling the groups looking to stir things up. It would be like if I went out and hung around on Alt.Support.Childfree and talked on an on about my kids, and how everyone should have kids and those who don't are immature, selfish and self-centered. I understand your point - it's just that that's a bad example. Just about everyone aside from the believers in the canon of groupthink aren't welcome there anymore (lest they hear about being a 'breeder-pleaser'). Thats not who we are. Thank your local diety. If he stirs **** (and whatever else he likes to do in the toilet to think single mothers have been toilet-ized LOL) - whatever. He is actually contributing, too. Banty |
#128
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:28:16 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote: To lounge around the house while our wives work is not something we would cater to. I personally couldn't do it. This view of what women do when they are at home with young children is part of the problem. Anyone at home with young children has a lot to do and mostly not housework. After the children are in school, btw, it still is not lounging about that is happening. Besides that it sounds like you are very limited in your own creative activities. Work doesn't have to be compensated to be meaningful. I might be artistic enough to paint or sculpt. I could be inventing machines even if they never get marketed. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#129
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57
wrote: On Apr 19, 7:00 pm, toto wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:45:07 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57 wrote: That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers than to sit down with the child and help her grow. For most of human history, children were raised by the *tribe* rather than by their individual mothers alone. Human families were extended families and grandmothers, grandfathers, aunts, uncles and other relatives helped to rear the children. It is really only in recent times in the West that the nuclear family has become the *ideal.* In the Kibbutzim in Isreal, communal child rearing is not seen as inimical to strong family ties. Underlying these child rearing practices is a different view of children and childhood. In tribal and communal societies, the child is views as a full participant in the life of the community from birth. -- Dorothy That's nice and all, but you have to acknowledge that the two societies are different. In these tribes, the entire tribes were working together to survive and prosper. Each member had a role to play in order to better the tribe. Also, I am sure that even in those tribes, the mother of the child would prefer to be with their offspring than to relinquish the parental duties and joys onto other tribal members. Regards... You have obviously never asked a tribal woman what they might or might not prefer. You think that Western civilization's view of parenting is the only view and that others *must* prefer this emotionally when it is simply not true. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#130
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Preparing sibling for birth process?
In article , toto says...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57 wrote: On Apr 19, 7:00 pm, toto wrote: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:45:07 -0700 (PDT), agsf_57 wrote: That she rather have her child be raised and in company of strangers than to sit down with the child and help her grow. For most of human history, children were raised by the *tribe* rather than by their individual mothers alone. Human families were extended families and grandmothers, grandfathers, aunts, uncles and other relatives helped to rear the children. It is really only in recent times in the West that the nuclear family has become the *ideal.* In the Kibbutzim in Isreal, communal child rearing is not seen as inimical to strong family ties. Underlying these child rearing practices is a different view of children and childhood. In tribal and communal societies, the child is views as a full participant in the life of the community from birth. -- Dorothy That's nice and all, but you have to acknowledge that the two societies are different. In these tribes, the entire tribes were working together to survive and prosper. Each member had a role to play in order to better the tribe. Also, I am sure that even in those tribes, the mother of the child would prefer to be with their offspring than to relinquish the parental duties and joys onto other tribal members. Regards... You have obviously never asked a tribal woman what they might or might not prefer. You think that Western civilization's view of parenting is the only view and that others *must* prefer this emotionally when it is simply not true. For one thing - looking at this from what he thinks women should want POV, said tribal woman gets to play with the babies after hers are older. I don't know where folks get these ideas. It's the USian isolated nuclear family thing. And the over-worn unthought cliche's about it. Like this thing about childcare providers being strangers. Banty |
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