a problem with my 13-year old daughter

Hello. Before you start reading, I warn you it's a bit long, I ended up

writing more than I intended


I'd like some suggestion on how I can handle a problem that=B4s really
getting me down. I=B4m 37 and have 2 kids, a girl age 13 and a boy age
11. My husband passed away 5 years ago.
Until about 6 months I hadn't had any serious problem with my kids.
They were never spanked and until then the severest punishment they had
got was to be grounded for a day, a few times Both alwyas get good
grades, and the girl excellent grades. Two great kids.
But for some reason I could never explain, maybe bad companies, in
August my girl started to behave really bad and to do things she'd
never done before, like being impolite and disrespectful, talking back,
shouting at me, disobeying. Without me knowing, she took to hanging
out with a different group of boys and girls, most of them older than
her. At school, however, she kept behaving and getting excellent
grades. Her teachers couldnt imagine how a nice teen like her could
behave so bad at home.
One Saturday she went out with those guys, came back home late and I
could notice she had drung a bit. I grounded her for some days and
during these days I talked to her a lot, explaining I was really upset
and scared with her behavior. She apologized, cried a lot, said she
didn't know why she had changed so much and promised she would leave
those guys and would get back to her usual behavior. She even thanked
me for not giving her a severe punishment and, actually, for about 2
weeks I had my wonderful girl back.
But suddenly she got to a bad behavior again and things were getting
worse and worse. By the middle of november I had no choice other than
submitting her to a strict grounding. Besides being a punishment for
her bad behavior, the strongest reason for her grounding is I suspected
she was hanging out with those guys again and I was really scared and
afraid she would get in some serious trouble. Except for her school
time, she had to be home all the time and I took away almost everything
she liked. Since it was a punishment for her best and not a torture, I
allowed her friends to come over with some restrictions and some TV
after dinner, with bed time at 10 pm. At that time I was taking a
course and, after her homework, she had to help me typing texts and
doing some researches in books and on the Net. Interesting to point out

that when helping me with this somewhat boring work she showed an
incredible good will, you wouldnt say it was a punishment, she like
enjoyed helping me.
I expeted a rebellion but this didnt happenn. Instead, the girl
apologized and asked to be forgiven, but this time I was really firm,
though I kept treating her with love and even with sweet words like
hun. The girl cried a lot, begged to be set free but I kept her
grounding up to some days before Xmas. It was terible to me, I'm sure I

cried much more than her. I talked to her a lot, showing I was still
her mom who loved her, every night I came at her bedside to kiss her,
but kept her punishment to the end and didnt make it any lighter. I
think this was my big mistake, the girl was sincerely changing and I
should have lightened up.
After her punishment she really stopped her bad behavior, left those
guys and I have nothing to complain about. I January I had to go to the

hospital for a surgery and the way she helped me to handle things
while I was in the hospital took me to Heaven. I'm proud of her.
But after her punishment she has never been the same, she's not happy
any more. She's a sad and depressed girl. I think she won't live this
thing down. The second weekend after her punishment she like grounded
herself and spent most of the time in bed, just staring at the ceiling.

I think now she sees me like a punisher and not like a mom. Somedays
ago she went out with some friends on a Wednesday and I asked her to be

home by 8 pm, of course not a strict curfew. She came home at 8:10 pm
and thought she would be grounded.
Ive told her a lot of times that thing is over, shes forgiven, shes a
wonderful girl, she was never a bad girl, she was just a bit lost. She
just smiles and usually says nothing.
Yesterday I was so upset that I grabbed her and almost shouted Please
tell me, what is going on, yuou like lost the pleasure of living. She
just said "Come on mom, now you have nothing to complain about me ,
I've already been punished and I have the right to be sad, u cant
punish me cause Im sad". My God! She said something inside of her
broke , but couldnt or idnt want to explain what it was exactly .
Somedays ago a friend of mine said to me and my girl something like
"Oh, nothing like a good punishment right? You learned your lesson, now

you=B4re behaving like an angel". My girl said something like "yeah,
I'll always be an example of a bad girl who was punished and became a
good girl. No matter the good things I do, er everyone will always see
me as a criminal that regreted her wrongdoings. No one remembers I've
helped my mom since dad died". This is true, she really helped. And
when I need she still helps me with my work with an extraordinary good
will, this i no punishment for her.
Well, I've written to much, sorry. I think that happy girl I once had
is gone. I'm sure I won't have any seriuos problem with her any more,
but guess she'll leave home a soon as she can. =20


Jane

Personally, if I was in your situation, I'd be happy that she takes
notice of what you say. There are enough stories in these newsgroups of
kids who ignore and walk all over their parents. She may sulk a bit,
but IMHO (not that I know anything) there are many parents in far worse
situations than you, and it sounds to me that you're doing a good job.

For what it's worth, I'd say that if you keep doing what's right,
she'll learn the new boundaries, and things will get better.

Cheers,

Ross-c

jane_mom wrote:

But for some reason I could never explain, maybe bad companies, in
August my girl started to behave really bad and to do things she'd
never done before, like being impolite and disrespectful, talking
back,
shouting at me, disobeying. Without me knowing, she took to hanging
out with a different group of boys and girls, most of them older than
her. At school, however, she kept behaving and getting excellent
grades. Her teachers couldnt imagine how a nice teen like her could
behave so bad at home.

You might be reassured to know that being impolite, disrespectful,
talking back, and disobeying at home with mom are all fairly normal
behaviors for a 13 year old girl. I know it's not any fun when you are
the target, and a once-loving, respectful, well-behaved child has
suddenly seemed to turn into a monster, but it is normal and I might
even call it healthy.

When children hit puberty, they begin to carve out an identity
independent from their parents. This is called the process of
differentiation. Boys and girls both go through it, but the way it is
expressed is different: boys are more apt to simply withdraw, go
monosyllabic with parents, and fly out of the house as often as they
can to disappear for hours with friends. Girls, OTOH, are more apt to
deliberately provoke shouting matches and conflicts with their parents
- and mom, as the same-sex parent, is very, very often the primary
target.

This is because she identifies so very closely with you as the same sex
parent (and perhaps even more closely since you have long been the
*only* parent). In order to become an independent adult, she must carve
out an independent identity from you. She cannot grow up and mature
without doing so.

The trouble is that a kid doesn't really know how to go about this and
usually the first attempt is to disobey, talk back, and be
disrespectful! You know that her behavior with you is more healthy than
a cause for alarm or indication you've got a budding "girl gone bad" on
your hands, because she is showing these behaviors only to you, in your
home, and not at school with her friends and teachers. That is a very
good sign, although I do understand how much it must hurt you very
deeply.


One Saturday she went out with those guys, came back home late and I
could notice she had drung a bit.

This is worrisome, and I do think you handled the situation correctly.
Teens are not only going through differentiation, but are also
spreading their wings and experimenting with the rules. This is also a
part of the maturation process. Unfortunately, they tend to take risks
at this age, are often impulsive, and don't always have the best
judgement. A lot of this has to do with the fact the brain during
puberty is going through rapid, astonishing rewiring and growth - new
research indicates that the brain grows as much if not more during this
period (13 to 18) as it does during early infancy and toddlerhood!!!

In the process of the brain growing and rewiring, the brain may
experience some "glitches" along the way, and this comes out as poor
judgement and unacceptable risks. It is our job, as parents, to
simultaneously encourage the process of differentiation, allowing for
enough freedom that the child can carve out an independent identity and
learn from mistakes, while also setting safe boundaries so our kids
don't make the really serious, life-altering mistakes. It's a fine line
to walk.

Some of the books I've read recommend that a parent try to say yes to
most anything, saving No only for the really serious, potentially
life-altering situations. Drinking at age 13 would qualify, IMO. I know
kids experiment and probably a large percentage drink before they are
21, but (and I've had long conversations with my kids about this) since
their brain is growing so rapidly during puberty, even one glass of
alcohol can have serious and lasting effects, according to recent
research.

I have told my kids, "Look, when your grandparents were your age, the
drinking age was much lower. In some countries, kids are given alcohol
with dinner starting at a young age, and there are no restrictions.
Alcohol is something that you must learn how to use responsibly, I do
agree with that. And yes, your mother had her first taste of alcohol
long before 21. But now the research is showing us that is not a great
idea, and that even a glass of alcohol can affect the developing teen
brain. For that reason, your mom is not telling you what to do, but
your mom is strongly recommending that you hold off until your brain is
done growing, and age 21 seems like a safe and reasonable age to wait."




I grounded her for some days

I would have done the same thing myself.

and
during these days I talked to her a lot, explaining I was really
upset
and scared with her behavior. She apologized, cried a lot, said she
didn't know why she had changed so much and promised she would leave
those guys and would get back to her usual behavior. She even
thanked
me for not giving her a severe punishment and, actually, for about 2
weeks I had my wonderful girl back.
But suddenly she got to a bad behavior again and things were getting
worse and worse. By the middle of november I had no choice other than
submitting her to a strict grounding.

What was the offense this time? Another bout of drinking? Or the back
talking? I would not ground a child for back-talking. Instead, I would
encourage and model for the teen to learn more respectful ways to carve
out her budding new independent identity. Let's say, for example, an
argument breaks out because DD doesn't want to get out of bed Sunday
morning and go to church. Doors are slamming and she's calling you
names, etc. You might calmly say, "You don't have to share my own
religious beliefs, and I get it that you really don't want to attend
church with the family today. Okay, stay home. *However,* in the
future, I would ask that you express your preference to stay at home in
a respectful tone to me."


Besides being a punishment for
her bad behavior, the strongest reason for her grounding is I
suspected
she was hanging out with those guys again and I was really scared and
afraid she would get in some serious trouble.

This is something to be concerned about, hanging out with the wrong
crowd. Unfortunately, dictating who she can be friends with is very
likely to backfire, because if they aren't the friends you'd choose,
then that is a very good reason for her to choose them! It gets back to
the fact she is trying to differentiate from you.

Instead of punishing, I might try to redirect her time into something
more positive. For example, perhaps you encourage her to take up a
sport that will fill her spare time. Or, get a job such as babysitting,
in which she can learn the thrill of making her own money. Or volunteer
with a charity that interests her. All those ideas get her out of the
house where she can stretch her independent wings away from home and
you, yet in a more structured environment.


Except for her school
time, she had to be home all the time and I took away almost
everything
she liked. Since it was a punishment for her best and not a torture,
I
allowed her friends to come over with some restrictions and some TV
after dinner, with bed time at 10 pm. At that time I was taking a
course and, after her homework, she had to help me typing texts and
doing some researches in books and on the Net. Interesting to point
out

that when helping me with this somewhat boring work she showed an
incredible good will, you wouldnt say it was a punishment, she like
enjoyed helping me.

Yep... teen girls often seem like Jekyll and Hyde to their mom's. This
is very good sign, as I said above, that this is just a normal phase
for your daughter. I think she's going to come out of it just fine.
Underneath all the bad behavior is a really good, excellent kid!

I expeted a rebellion but this didnt happenn. Instead, the girl
apologized and asked to be forgiven, but this time I was really firm,
though I kept treating her with love and even with sweet words like
hun. The girl cried a lot, begged to be set free but I kept her
grounding up to some days before Xmas. It was terible to me, I'm sure
I
cried much more than her. I talked to her a lot, showing I was still
her mom who loved her, every night I came at her bedside to kiss her,
but kept her punishment to the end and didnt make it any lighter. I
think this was my big mistake, the girl was sincerely changing and I
should have lightened up.


Okay, this might have been a little mistake here. It is okay to be
flexible with your punishment, and end it early, if you feel the teen
has honestly learned her lesson. But, hey, mom, nobody's perfect. Don't
beat yourself over this.

After her punishment she really stopped her bad behavior, left those
guys and I have nothing to complain about. I January I had to go to
the

hospital for a surgery and the way she helped me to handle things
while I was in the hospital took me to Heaven. I'm proud of her.
But after her punishment she has never been the same, she's not happy
any more. She's a sad and depressed girl.

What sort of surgery? Could it be she is sad because she fretted you
might pass away, as her father did? Perhaps her sadness is the result
of something else going on, and not the punishment issue. Just a
thought.


I think she won't live this
thing down. The second weekend after her punishment she like grounded
herself and spent most of the time in bed, just staring at the
ceiling.

Hormones? :-)

Moodiness is not abnormal, either. I would keep an eye on it, however,
because protracted moodiness could indicate depression. Doesn't sound
like you're quite there, but if this new phase lasts for months, get
her some help.


I think now she sees me like a punisher and not like a mom. Somedays
ago she went out with some friends on a Wednesday and I asked her to
be

home by 8 pm, of course not a strict curfew. She came home at 8:10 pm
and thought she would be grounded.

I read some advice in a book that said that enforcing curfews is
fruitless. I can't remember why now, or the reasoning. I just remember
that the book recommended no punishments for curfews - just continue to
express disappointment when they are not met. I could have that all
wrong... I may go dig up the book again, because I remember it made
sense to me at the time (just can't remember what it said).

Ive told her a lot of times that thing is over, shes forgiven, shes a
wonderful girl, she was never a bad girl, she was just a bit lost.
She
just smiles and usually says nothing.
Yesterday I was so upset that I grabbed her and almost shouted Please
tell me, what is going on, yuou like lost the pleasure of living. She
just said "Come on mom, now you have nothing to complain about me ,
I've already been punished and I have the right to be sad, u cant
punish me cause Im sad". My God! She said something inside of her
broke , but couldnt or idnt want to explain what it was exactly .
Somedays ago a friend of mine said to me and my girl something like
"Oh, nothing like a good punishment right? You learned your lesson,
now

you=B4re behaving like an angel". My girl said something like "yeah,
I'll always be an example of a bad girl who was punished and became a
good girl. No matter the good things I do, er everyone will always
see
me as a criminal that regreted her wrongdoings. No one remembers I've
helped my mom since dad died". This is true, she really helped. And
when I need she still helps me with my work with an extraordinary
good
will, this i no punishment for her.
Well, I've written to much, sorry. I think that happy girl I once had
is gone. I'm sure I won't have any seriuos problem with her any more,
but guess she'll leave home a soon as she can.

I think what is going on here is that "good girl" to her is meaning
"exactly like my mom wants." And she has this overwhelming, entirely
natural and healthy, need to differentiate from you.

The trick is to find healthy ways she can become indepedent, and carve
out an identity from you, without having to rebell, run with the wrong
crowd, and drink to do it.

You are a good mom. You sound loving, reasonable, capable. If you are
all those things, well, what is left for her, if she wants to be
different than you?

Work with your daughter to show to her that she is different than you
in many and myriad ways. Point out and encourage the good qualities
that are different. And, definetly consider encouraging her to pursue a
sport, extracurricular, or job that is outside of the home and gives
her a safe environment to practice independence.

Take care - she sounds like a wonderful kid.=20

jen

jane_mom wrote:

But for some reason I could never explain, maybe bad companies, in
August my girl started to behave really bad and to do things she'd
never done before, like being impolite and disrespectful, talking
back,
shouting at me, disobeying. Without me knowing, she took to hanging
out with a different group of boys and girls, most of them older than
her. At school, however, she kept behaving and getting excellent
grades. Her teachers couldnt imagine how a nice teen like her could
behave so bad at home.

Sounds like youre average thirteen year old to me......cheer up she'll
hit high school and you'll live through it.

When my sweet adorable darling twenty four year old was thirteen, I
was ready to ship her off to grandmas until she was sixteen.