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#1
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I love dogs....I love children
I have adopted many dogs in my lifetime (as well as a menagerie of other
animals). I have learned through experience and through education that the least effective way to train, guide, and discipline a dog is through hitting and intimidation. Until August 2nd, I had two dogs, a German Shepherd/Lab mix that I adopted and trained since he was a puppy, and a Springer Spaniel that I adopted at 8 months of age. My youngest child moved back home after graduation from college because she couldn't find a job. With her she brought back a 2 year old Rottweiler/Shepard mix. I also have a cat that the Rottie wants to kill. Through diligence, training, and kindness the situation is correcting itself. We don't hit the Rottie nor do we discipline through fear. We discipline through diligence and kindness, knowing that the Rottie has strong prey instincts but also a strong desire to please his humans. I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. LaVonne |
#2
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I love dogs....I love children
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:
I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog??? Doan |
#3
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I love dogs....I love children
Doan,
I assume you are a literate person with reading comprehension skills. Where in my email did I say anything about my parents? As you so often do, you totally missed the point of the posing. I skimmed your posting history, and it appears that you actually may experience difficulties with reading comprehension. So often your responses have nothing to do with the posts to which you attempt to be responding. Your posts regarding research are so far from the actual research results that I again question your ability to comprehend written language. This is nothing cause shame. Many intelligent adults experience similar difficulties. Often these adults were not diagnosed and experienced no intervention when they were children. If you feel you have a learning disability (a reading comprehension difficulty falls in this category) there are places to go for help. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog??? Doan |
#4
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I love dogs....I love children
First, so much for the claim that I am on your killfile! ;-) Second, my reading comprehension is fine. You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not? If that is the case, then you can certainly response if you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog. For that it what your post seem to imply about spanking parents. Third, as for the reseach, you claimed to have posted "numerous times" research where the non-cp alternatives are better than spanking under the same circumstances. Here is your chance to prove that you are not a liar. I posted citations from Gershoff, Baumrind & Larzelere where they said they can't find such thing. Either you put up or shut up! Doan On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan, I assume you are a literate person with reading comprehension skills. Where in my email did I say anything about my parents? As you so often do, you totally missed the point of the posing. I skimmed your posting history, and it appears that you actually may experience difficulties with reading comprehension. So often your responses have nothing to do with the posts to which you attempt to be responding. Your posts regarding research are so far from the actual research results that I again question your ability to comprehend written language. This is nothing cause shame. Many intelligent adults experience similar difficulties. Often these adults were not diagnosed and experienced no intervention when they were children. If you feel you have a learning disability (a reading comprehension difficulty falls in this category) there are places to go for help. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog??? Doan |
#5
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I love dogs....I love children
Doan wrote: First, so much for the claim that I am on your killfile! ;-) You may not understand how a killfile works. One can take an individual off a killfile and put the individual back on a killfile. I temporarily removed yoiur name from my killfile, Second, my reading comprehension is fine. You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not? Where did I say that? If that is the case, then you can certainly response if you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog. For that it what your post seem to imply about spanking parents. I don't know how to "certainly response" to something. Perhaps you understand the phrase better than I. Third, as for the reseach, you claimed to have posted "numerous times" research where the non-cp alternatives are better than spanking under the same circumstances. Here is your chance to prove that you are not a liar. I posted citations from Gershoff, Baumrind & Larzelere where they said they can't find such thing. Either you put up or shut up! I have been on this ng since 1995. If you want the research, go find it. It is in the archives. You have misrepreseated research from the time you arrived here. Back in the kill file you go. LaVonne Doan On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan, I assume you are a literate person with reading comprehension skills. Where in my email did I say anything about my parents? As you so often do, you totally missed the point of the posing. I skimmed your posting history, and it appears that you actually may experience difficulties with reading comprehension. So often your responses have nothing to do with the posts to which you attempt to be responding. Your posts regarding research are so far from the actual research results that I again question your ability to comprehend written language. This is nothing cause shame. Many intelligent adults experience similar difficulties. Often these adults were not diagnosed and experienced no intervention when they were children. If you feel you have a learning disability (a reading comprehension difficulty falls in this category) there are places to go for help. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog??? Doan |
#6
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I love dogs....I love children
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Doan wrote: First, so much for the claim that I am on your killfile! ;-) You may not understand how a killfile works. One can take an individual off a killfile and put the individual back on a killfile. I temporarily removed yoiur name from my killfile, LOL! How convenient! Second, my reading comprehension is fine. You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not? Where did I say that? So now you're claiming that you were never spanked??? If that is the case, then you can certainly response if you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog. For that it what your post seem to imply about spanking parents. I don't know how to "certainly response" to something. Perhaps you understand the phrase better than I. Certainly! ;-) Third, as for the reseach, you claimed to have posted "numerous times" research where the non-cp alternatives are better than spanking under the same circumstances. Here is your chance to prove that you are not a liar. I posted citations from Gershoff, Baumrind & Larzelere where they said they can't find such thing. Either you put up or shut up! I have been on this ng since 1995. If you want the research, go find it. It is in the archives. LOL! Once a liar always a liar. You have misrepreseated research from the time you arrived here. Back in the kill file you go. LaVonne What is "misrepreseated"? And is this a permanetn killfile or just "temporary"? ;-) Doan Doan On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan, I assume you are a literate person with reading comprehension skills. Where in my email did I say anything about my parents? As you so often do, you totally missed the point of the posing. I skimmed your posting history, and it appears that you actually may experience difficulties with reading comprehension. So often your responses have nothing to do with the posts to which you attempt to be responding. Your posts regarding research are so far from the actual research results that I again question your ability to comprehend written language. This is nothing cause shame. Many intelligent adults experience similar difficulties. Often these adults were not diagnosed and experienced no intervention when they were children. If you feel you have a learning disability (a reading comprehension difficulty falls in this category) there are places to go for help. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog??? Doan |
#7
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I love dogs....I love children
Doan wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan wrote: First, so much for the claim that I am on your killfile! ;-) You may not understand how a killfile works. One can take an individual off a killfile and put the individual back on a killfile. I temporarily removed yoiur name from my killfile, LOL! How convenient! Yes, it is. It's unfortunate that you didn't understand how a killfile works. Second, my reading comprehension is fine. You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not? Where did I say that? So now you're claiming that you were never spanked??? I didn't claim anything about my childhood. I'm asking you about your claim above that I will quote "You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not?" If that is the case, then you can certainly response if you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog. For that it what your post seem to imply about spanking parents. I don't know how to "certainly response" to something. Perhaps you understand the phrase better than I. Certainly! ;-) If suspect you made a typo here, but I don't know why I would "certainly response" or certainly respond. I made no claim regarding my parents and my childhood that needs a response or a respond. You are the individual that made that claim, and you know nothing of my childhood. Third, as for the reseach, you claimed to have posted "numerous times" research where the non-cp alternatives are better than spanking under the same circumstances. Here is your chance to prove that you are not a liar. I posted citations from Gershoff, Baumrind & Larzelere where they said they can't find such thing. Either you put up or shut up! I have been on this ng since 1995. If you want the research, go find it. It is in the archives. LOL! Once a liar always a liar. Where is the lie? I haven't been on the ng since 1995? I haven't posted research? There is no such thing as an archive? Perhaps you could explain to the rest of us what lie you are accusing me of this time. You have misrepreseated research from the time you arrived here. Back in the kill file you go. LaVonne What is "misrepreseated"? And is this a permanetn killfile or just "temporary"? ;-) Yes, typos happen, don't they? You have misrepresented research from the time you arrived here. And my killfile is temporary. Could you explain a permanent killfile that cannot be changed by the computer owner and administrator? LaVonne Doan Doan On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan, I assume you are a literate person with reading comprehension skills. Where in my email did I say anything about my parents? As you so often do, you totally missed the point of the posing. I skimmed your posting history, and it appears that you actually may experience difficulties with reading comprehension. So often your responses have nothing to do with the posts to which you attempt to be responding. Your posts regarding research are so far from the actual research results that I again question your ability to comprehend written language. This is nothing cause shame. Many intelligent adults experience similar difficulties. Often these adults were not diagnosed and experienced no intervention when they were children. If you feel you have a learning disability (a reading comprehension difficulty falls in this category) there are places to go for help. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog??? Doan |
#8
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I love dogs....I love children
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:
Doan wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan wrote: First, so much for the claim that I am on your killfile! ;-) You may not understand how a killfile works. One can take an individual off a killfile and put the individual back on a killfile. I temporarily removed yoiur name from my killfile, LOL! How convenient! Yes, it is. It's unfortunate that you didn't understand how a killfile works. If I am on your killfile, you wouldn't have seen my post! Second, my reading comprehension is fine. You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not? Where did I say that? So now you're claiming that you were never spanked??? I didn't claim anything about my childhood. I'm asking you about your claim above that I will quote "You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not?" Shall I repost from the archive? ;-) If that is the case, then you can certainly response if you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog. For that it what your post seem to imply about spanking parents. I don't know how to "certainly response" to something. Perhaps you understand the phrase better than I. Certainly! ;-) If suspect you made a typo here, but I don't know why I would "certainly response" or certainly respond. I made no claim regarding my parents and my childhood that needs a response or a respond. You are the individual that made that claim, and you know nothing of my childhood. Only what you posted on this newsgroup. ;-) Third, as for the reseach, you claimed to have posted "numerous times" research where the non-cp alternatives are better than spanking under the same circumstances. Here is your chance to prove that you are not a liar. I posted citations from Gershoff, Baumrind & Larzelere where they said they can't find such thing. Either you put up or shut up! I have been on this ng since 1995. If you want the research, go find it. It is in the archives. LOL! Once a liar always a liar. Where is the lie? I haven't been on the ng since 1995? I haven't posted research? There is no such thing as an archive? Perhaps you could explain to the rest of us what lie you are accusing me of this time. The lie is your claim to have posted "numerous times" studies that showed non-cp alternatives are better than spanking, under the same statistical analysi. THERE IS NONE! Gershoff can't find any: "Baumrind et al. (2002) cited several studies that have found corporal punishment to be less associated with negative outcomes than are other discipline techniques. Although this may be true, just because other techniques are worse than corporal punishment does not make corporal punishment any better. Until positive effects are linked with corporal punishment, it should not be routinely recommended as a method of controlling children. However, it is important to note that their argument does point to the need for similar research on all methods of parental discipline, not just corporal punishment." LIAR! You have misrepreseated research from the time you arrived here. Back in the kill file you go. LaVonne What is "misrepreseated"? And is this a permanetn killfile or just "temporary"? ;-) Yes, typos happen, don't they? You have misrepresented research from the time you arrived here. And my killfile is temporary. Could you explain a permanent killfile that cannot be changed by the computer owner and administrator? LaVonne I thought I am back in your killfile? DO YOU KNOW WHAT A KILLFILE IS? ;-) Doan Doan Doan On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan, I assume you are a literate person with reading comprehension skills. Where in my email did I say anything about my parents? As you so often do, you totally missed the point of the posing. I skimmed your posting history, and it appears that you actually may experience difficulties with reading comprehension. So often your responses have nothing to do with the posts to which you attempt to be responding. Your posts regarding research are so far from the actual research results that I again question your ability to comprehend written language. This is nothing cause shame. Many intelligent adults experience similar difficulties. Often these adults were not diagnosed and experienced no intervention when they were children. If you feel you have a learning disability (a reading comprehension difficulty falls in this category) there are places to go for help. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog??? Doan |
#9
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I love dogs....I love children
Tell you what, screaching dancing monkeyboy, I'll both educate LaVonne
to what a 'Bozo Bin' is, so she doesn't have to look you up to see what you are up to here, AND I'll insist she post what you claim she didn't, when YOU answer this little question you have avoided for what, about a year now? 'Where is the line between safe corporal punishment and abusive punishment?" You must answer it honestly, not the evasions you go into by trying to claim someone else has the answer. I am not asking someone else, just you. What is YOUR definition of safe that will insure, 100% the child will not be subjected to injuries, but CP is used right up to the line where if crossed injury would ensue? Nothing to it for a genius, or a dancing monkeyboy, such as you. R R R R RR R 0:- |
#10
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I love dogs....I love children
Doan wrote: On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan wrote: First, so much for the claim that I am on your killfile! ;-) You may not understand how a killfile works. One can take an individual off a killfile and put the individual back on a killfile. I temporarily removed yoiur name from my killfile, LOL! How convenient! Yes, it is. It's unfortunate that you didn't understand how a killfile works. If I am on your killfile, you wouldn't have seen my post! Of course I would have, if I had removed the block. I removed the block. I saw your post. Second, my reading comprehension is fine. You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not? Where did I say that? So now you're claiming that you were never spanked??? I didn't claim anything about my childhood. I'm asking you about your claim above that I will quote "You said that your parents spanked you when you were a child, did you not?" Shall I repost from the archive? ;-) Please do. If that is the case, then you can certainly response if you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog. For that it what your post seem to imply about spanking parents. I don't know how to "certainly response" to something. Perhaps you understand the phrase better than I. Certainly! ;-) If suspect you made a typo here, but I don't know why I would "certainly response" or certainly respond. I made no claim regarding my parents and my childhood that needs a response or a respond. You are the individual that made that claim, and you know nothing of my childhood. Only what you posted on this newsgroup. ;-) Let's see it, doan. Third, as for the reseach, you claimed to have posted "numerous times" research where the non-cp alternatives are better than spanking under the same circumstances. Here is your chance to prove that you are not a liar. I posted citations from Gershoff, Baumrind & Larzelere where they said they can't find such thing. Either you put up or shut up! I have been on this ng since 1995. If you want the research, go find it. It is in the archives. LOL! Once a liar always a liar. Where is the lie? I haven't been on the ng since 1995? I haven't posted research? There is no such thing as an archive? Perhaps you could explain to the rest of us what lie you are accusing me of this time. The lie is your claim to have posted "numerous times" studies that showed non-cp alternatives are better than spanking, under the same statistical analysi. THERE IS NONE! Gershoff can't find any: You apparently consider yourself good with archives. Go dig up my posts. "Baumrind et al. (2002) cited several studies that have found corporal punishment to be less associated with negative outcomes than are other discipline techniques. Although this may be true, just because other techniques are worse than corporal punishment does not make corporal punishment any better. Until positive effects are linked with corporal punishment, it should not be routinely recommended as a method of controlling children. However, it is important to note that their argument does point to the need for similar research on all methods of parental discipline, not just corporal punishment." Yes, Baumrind said this. LIAR! However, this has absolutely nothing to do with my claim to have posted numerous times, studies that showed non-cp alternatives are better than sapnking. I'm not debating Baumrind or Gershoff. I'm debating the statement you are making that I am a liar for stating that I have posted studies showiong non-cp alternatives are better than spanking. You consider your self good with archives. Go to the archives of the past ten years. You have misrepreseated research from the time you arrived here. Back in the kill file you go. LaVonne What is "misrepreseated"? And is this a permanetn killfile or just "temporary"? ;-) Yes, typos happen, don't they? You have misrepresented research from the time you arrived here. And my killfile is temporary. Could you explain a permanent killfile that cannot be changed by the computer owner and administrator? LaVonne I thought I am back in your killfile? DO YOU KNOW WHAT A KILLFILE IS? ;-) Yes, I do. I left your posts open because you were only engaging in misrepresentation and not disrespect. When your posts become disrespectful, I simply put you back in my killfile and block your posts. I don't deal with disrespect and name calling. You are already engaging in name-calling and disrespectful behavior. However, because of your claims regarding archives, I thought I'd wait to put you back in the killfile and see if you can respond with the information -- from the archives -- that you claim you have. Perhaps you were spanked as a child and didn't learn respect because you were not respected in your formative years. LaVonne Doan Doan Doan On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: Doan, I assume you are a literate person with reading comprehension skills. Where in my email did I say anything about my parents? As you so often do, you totally missed the point of the posing. I skimmed your posting history, and it appears that you actually may experience difficulties with reading comprehension. So often your responses have nothing to do with the posts to which you attempt to be responding. Your posts regarding research are so far from the actual research results that I again question your ability to comprehend written language. This is nothing cause shame. Many intelligent adults experience similar difficulties. Often these adults were not diagnosed and experienced no intervention when they were children. If you feel you have a learning disability (a reading comprehension difficulty falls in this category) there are places to go for help. LaVonne Doan wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote: I keep wondering why people insist on hitting, hurting, and shaming children in the name of discipline. Children have so much more cognitive potential that dogs. Yet we provide dogs more protection that children, and it is so much easier for some individuals to raise and train a dog in an effective and humane way that it is for these same individuals to positively parent a human child. So you feel that your parents treated you worse than a dog??? Doan |
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