wDnnSCPS

Once again, Doug outclassed Kane0! Ain't you just tired of the
name-callings from the "never-spanked" Kane? ;-)

Doan

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, Doug wrote:

Kane had written:

Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

To which, I had replied:

Criminal court is where felonies are heard.

To which, Kane replies:

Yes. Is all child abuse then felonious?

Hi, Kane,

No, child abuse of lesser degrees are misdemeanors. They are also heard in
criminal court.

If you recall, you posted a newsstory about a person being charged with a
felony because he was alledged to have abused a child and asked me (see
above) whether it would be tried in civil or criminal court.

I answered (above) criminal court.

And you would be, obviously, allowing a great deal of abuse and neglect
to go unhindered because it just missed the severest levels of injury.
You are sick, sir. Very.

Child abuse and neglect of very minor degree are covered in misdemeanor
criminal statutes in all fifty states. One such criminal violation is
"child endangerment," which often involves the lack of action, or neglect.
These are tried in criminal court.

To say that criminal courts handle only the severest levels of "injury" is
an outright misstatement of fact. Most prosecutions for child maltreatment
are for lessor abuse or neglect are misdemeanors. They are tried in
criminal court.

A great deal of denial goes on until the crimes exceed the civil and
become the felonious.

Nope. An act abusing or endangering children need not rise to the level of
a felony to be investigated by police and tried in criminal court. In fact,
minor abuse and neglect are violations of criminal law and prosecuted as
misdeamenors in criminal court. It is NOT a question of exceeding "civil,"
it is a question of whether the crime of child abuse is at the level of
misdeameanor or felony.

Some are. You ignore that if all child abuse were to go to the police
for investigation the costs would be astronomical. Newbie cops aren't
detectives. Or were you unaware that they are the ones doing
investigations? ALL of them?

I know for a fact, as do most people in the field, that "ALL" criminal child
abuse investigations are decidedly NOT done by "newbie cops." In point of
fact, veteran detectives on most forces specialize in child abuse
investigation. The federal government funds intensive trainings throughout
the country for detectives.

But even "newbie" detective is much better trained in how to gather evidence
and interview collaterals than a social service worker. This is one of the
facts persuading state legislatures to remove the investigative role from
social service bureaucracies and give it to law enforcement, who are trained
in such matters. A "newbie" detective doesn't know anything about "risk
assessments" that dock parents points toward being neglectful if they are
under 30 years old, but that, again, is another reason why they are better
suited to do the investigations.

You are wrong. It, like a great deal of crime, (some criminalogists
claim ALL is disease, social disease) is in fact a social disease. Your
magical thinking, your errors in judgement are fully exposed with such
a statement. Child abuse is most certainly a disease. Sometimes it's
also a crime.

Child abuse decidedly is NOT a disease. It does not meet the criteria of a
disease. Your shoot from the hip argumentation fails to consider the
criteria of a disease. It is a severe thinking error to entertain the
notion that child abuse has the components necessary to be classified as a
disease. Is it diagnoised? Does it have a biophysical element?

A disease is a condition.

A crime is a behavior.

The defination of a disease is exacting. Neither the AMA or the APA
considers the behavior of child abuse to be a disease. In fact, no one to
my knowledge other than yourself has so classified it. Do you have any
references....a single authority that makes such an absurd claim?

Child abuse is a crime.

Of course it is. That it is a disease does not preclude it being also a
crime.

It is not a disease. It is a crime.

Chemical addiction is a disease. It is not a crime.

Wrongful possession of controlled substances is a crime. It is not a
disease.

And that is is a crime does not preclude it being also a disease.

Child abuse is a crime. That it is a crime does not make it a disease.
Child abuse is not a disease because it does not meet the criteria of being
a disease. Child abuse is not a condition. It is a behavior. That it is
not a disease does not preclude the behavior from being a crime. Depending
on its severity, the behavior or lack of behavior is a misdemeanor or a
felony.

Check you thinking, Kane. And, please, if you have any authority charged
with defining disease calling child abuse a disease, please cite it.

More thinking error on your part, or a deliberate attempt again to
manipulate and mislead the reader into the simplistic either/or trap of
error in judgement.

LOL! Not at all. Child abuse does not meet the criteria of being a
disease. It fails to meet two of the components. Do you know which ones?

To come out of the blue and attempt to claim that child abuse is a disease
is manipulative. It is not accurate.

A disease is condition.

A crime is a behavior (or lack of a required one).

I doubt that outside of the two previously mentioned, even the most
ardent opponents of CPS here would miss your little ploy above, and not
appreciate that someone as intelligent as you (hence it would be
deliberate, not an accident) would insult their intelligence so
cavalierly.

LOL! You may want to look up the defination of a disease. Most, if not
all, of the readers here know that child abuse is decidedly not a disease.
I was not telling them something they don't know.

Yes, there is crime that is a disease that when acted out produces
results that are so injurious that they must be prosecuted in criminal
court. That nether removes the fact it's a disease, nor does it stop
the court from sentencing the actors to rehabilitation services, as YOU
yourself once pointed out in one of our usual exchanges on this
subject.

Nope. Child abuse decidedly does not lay limpant as a disease and then
suddenly surface as a criminal behavior. There is no such thing as a latent
child abuse disease.

Child abuse does not exist unless a child is abused. Child abuse is an
illegal behavior that occurs in various levels of severity, and are
prosecuted in criminal court as either misdemeanors or felonies based upon
the level of severity.

Your position that child abuse is a disease whose symptoms are at first
latent is absurd. What are the symptoms of this latent disease before it is
"acted out?"

LOL! Your theory is halarious. But it is not held by those who define
disease or those who draw up criminal statutes.

Child abuse is not a disease.

Child abuse is a crime.

Somewhere, Someone is Wearing a Tube Top in Church.
At a Funeral.

Cell 'phones are ringing in Classrooms, Theatres, and
Libraries. White Sandals are being worn in the Dead of
Winter on the Streets of New York. With Stockings. A
girl is staggering under the weight of an Air
Conditioner, on a 90-degree day, as a nearby boy
watches with interest, idly enjoying a Cold Beverage.
Young people are Swing-Dancing in Khakis. Chocolate is
running around in "Martinis." And everywhere, the
Elderly, the Infirm, and the Pregnant are standing up
on trains.

We are Appalled. Something has to be done.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Doug" wrote in message
...
Kane had written:

Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal
Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

To which, I had replied:

Criminal court is where felonies are heard.

To which, Kane replies:

Yes. Is all child abuse then felonious?

Hi, Kane,

No, child abuse of lesser degrees are misdemeanors.
They are also heard in criminal court.

If you recall, you posted a newsstory about a person
being charged with a felony because he was alledged
to have abused a child and asked me (see above)
whether it would be tried in civil or criminal court.

I answered (above) criminal court.

And you would be, obviously, allowing a great deal
of abuse and neglect
to go unhindered because it just missed the severest
levels of injury.
You are sick, sir. Very.

Child abuse and neglect of very minor degree are
covered in misdemeanor criminal statutes in all fifty
states. One such criminal violation is "child
endangerment," which often involves the lack of
action, or neglect. These are tried in criminal
court.

To say that criminal courts handle only the severest
levels of "injury" is an outright misstatement of
fact. Most prosecutions for child maltreatment are
for lessor abuse or neglect are misdemeanors. They
are tried in criminal court.

A great deal of denial goes on until the crimes
exceed the civil and
become the felonious.

Nope. An act abusing or endangering children need
not rise to the level of a felony to be investigated
by police and tried in criminal court. In fact,
minor abuse and neglect are violations of criminal
law and prosecuted as misdeamenors in criminal court.
It is NOT a question of exceeding "civil," it is a
question of whether the crime of child abuse is at
the level of misdeameanor or felony.

Some are. You ignore that if all child abuse were to
go to the police
for investigation the costs would be astronomical.
Newbie cops aren't
detectives. Or were you unaware that they are the
ones doing
investigations? ALL of them?

I know for a fact, as do most people in the field,
that "ALL" criminal child abuse investigations are
decidedly NOT done by "newbie cops." In point of
fact, veteran detectives on most forces specialize in
child abuse investigation. The federal government
funds intensive trainings throughout the country for
detectives.

But even "newbie" detective is much better trained in
how to gather evidence and interview collaterals than
a social service worker. This is one of the facts
persuading state legislatures to remove the
investigative role from social service bureaucracies
and give it to law enforcement, who are trained in
such matters. A "newbie" detective doesn't know
anything about "risk assessments" that dock parents
points toward being neglectful if they are under 30
years old, but that, again, is another reason why
they are better suited to do the investigations.

You are wrong. It, like a great deal of crime, (some
criminalogists
claim ALL is disease, social disease) is in fact a
social disease. Your
magical thinking, your errors in judgement are fully
exposed with such
a statement. Child abuse is most certainly a
disease. Sometimes it's
also a crime.

Child abuse decidedly is NOT a disease. It does not
meet the criteria of a disease. Your shoot from the
hip argumentation fails to consider the criteria of a
disease. It is a severe thinking error to entertain
the notion that child abuse has the components
necessary to be classified as a disease. Is it
diagnoised? Does it have a biophysical element?

A disease is a condition.

A crime is a behavior.

The defination of a disease is exacting. Neither the
AMA or the APA considers the behavior of child abuse
to be a disease. In fact, no one to my knowledge
other than yourself has so classified it. Do you
have any references....a single authority that makes
such an absurd claim?

Child abuse is a crime.

Of course it is. That it is a disease does not
preclude it being also a
crime.

It is not a disease. It is a crime.

Chemical addiction is a disease. It is not a crime.

Wrongful possession of controlled substances is a
crime. It is not a disease.

And that is is a crime does not preclude it being
also a disease.

Child abuse is a crime. That it is a crime does not
make it a disease. Child abuse is not a disease
because it does not meet the criteria of being a
disease. Child abuse is not a condition. It is a
behavior. That it is not a disease does not preclude
the behavior from being a crime. Depending on its
severity, the behavior or lack of behavior is a
misdemeanor or a felony.

Check you thinking, Kane. And, please, if you have
any authority charged with defining disease calling
child abuse a disease, please cite it.

More thinking error on your part, or a deliberate
attempt again to
manipulate and mislead the reader into the
simplistic either/or trap of
error in judgement.

LOL! Not at all. Child abuse does not meet the
criteria of being a disease. It fails to meet two of
the components. Do you know which ones?

To come out of the blue and attempt to claim that
child abuse is a disease is manipulative. It is not
accurate.

A disease is condition.

A crime is a behavior (or lack of a required one).

I doubt that outside of the two previously
mentioned, even the most
ardent opponents of CPS here would miss your little
ploy above, and not
appreciate that someone as intelligent as you (hence
it would be
deliberate, not an accident) would insult their
intelligence so
cavalierly.

LOL! You may want to look up the defination of a
disease. Most, if not all, of the readers here know
that child abuse is decidedly not a disease. I was
not telling them something they don't know.

Yes, there is crime that is a disease that when
acted out produces
results that are so injurious that they must be
prosecuted in criminal
court. That nether removes the fact it's a disease,
nor does it stop
the court from sentencing the actors to
rehabilitation services, as YOU
yourself once pointed out in one of our usual
exchanges on this
subject.

Nope. Child abuse decidedly does not lay limpant as
a disease and then suddenly surface as a criminal
behavior. There is no such thing as a latent child
abuse disease.

Child abuse does not exist unless a child is abused.
Child abuse is an illegal behavior that occurs in
various levels of severity, and are prosecuted in
criminal court as either misdemeanors or felonies
based upon the level of severity.

Your position that child abuse is a disease whose
symptoms are at first latent is absurd. What are the
symptoms of this latent disease before it is "acted
out?"

LOL! Your theory is halarious. But it is not held
by those who define disease or those who draw up
criminal statutes.

Child abuse is not a disease.

Child abuse is a crime.

What Is An Insult? ::: Definition and Nature of Insults

The power of an insult can be devastating.
Historically, insults have packed a powerful political,
social and cultural punch. They have caused wars, civil
disturbance (such as when an ethnic group is
disparaged) and been central dynamics in great works of
literature and art. Beyond their power on the group
level, they have devastating power on the individual
level. An insult can provoke an extreme reaction in its
recipient such as an act of violence, a resulting feud,
a suicide, a resignation, etc. On a less extreme level,
it can cause anxiety, depression, erode confidence,
etc. Surprising, then, that there is so little
understanding about what an insult actually is.

According to Dictionary.com, the definition of an
insult is "to treat someone with gross insensitivity,
insolence, or contemptuous rudeness." However, this
definition is flawed for three reasons: 1. It implies
that an insult is an action/event, not allowing that an
insult can be an inaction/non-event such as something
not said or done. 2. It implies that action/event is
deliberate, not allowing for the fact that the
'insulting' party can be wholly unaware of the insult.
3. It is simply inadequate in its grasp of the complex
nature of what an insult actually is. I define an
insult as: An action or inaction, which a person
perceives as demeaning to his or her status; usually
intentional.

There are two basic types of insult: pragmatic and
cathartic. The pragmatic insult is usually methodical
and delivered with precision as a means to any one or
more of a multiplicity of premeditated ends: offence,
humiliation, provocation, rebuke, organizational,
distraction, dominance, scapegoating, etc. The
cathartic insult involves an ad hoc release of emotions
(anger, hostility, frustration, etc) and is essentially
'venting one's spleen' at someone.

Insults can be verbal, comprising of invective,
negative stereotyping, and rudeness or swearing, etc.
They can take the form of an action, such as a valued
object damaged, a cheap gift, a door not held open for
you or intentionally slammed in your face, symbols
desecrated, gifts returned or invitations refused, even
foul smells, etc. They can take the form of an
inaction, such as an invitation or get-well card not
sent, a phone call not made, a date or time not kept, a
custom or convention not observed, etc. They can be
visual, such as offensive or indecent gestures e.g.
pulling faces/sticking out one's tongue, "Obscene"
artworks, or any of countless other visual gestures
designed to insult.

An insult is any expressed assessment of a person that
is not in accord with his or her own favorable
self-assessment. It doesn't have to be a deliberate
attempt to insult, but merely the expression of the
assessment. Moreover, the unfavorable assessment can be
a forced self-assessment, such as seeing someone doing
a task better, driving a more expensive car, or dating
a prettier girl. Here, contrasting the success or
superiority of another can perversely be seen as
accentuating a sense of inadequacy, and consequently,
perceived as an insult. For example, a former
girlfriend who engineers her former boyfriend observing
her with a new boyfriend who drives a better car than
he does, where the purpose is clearly to insult her
ex-boyfriend by the technique of forced contrast and
resultant unfavorable self-assessment.

An insult can have an immediate impact, a deferred
impact or no impact at all. A verbal confrontation
involving an exchange of insults intended and perceived
as such by both parties is an obvious example of a
situation where an immediate impact occurs. A deferred
impact is where the insult (intentional or not) is not
perceived as such at the time of its occurrence but
later it 'sinks in' and the insulted party then reacts.
It not a requirement of an insult that the insulted
party perceives or reacts to it; nor is it required
that the insulting party intended the insult. Thus, we
can have an apparently absurd situation whereby the
insulting party intended no insult and the insulted
party perceived none, but an insult still occurred! It
is not required that an insult has two parties to be an
insult. An artist may create a work of art with the
clear intention of expressing something considered
blasphemous or taboo by a particular faith; even though
it may never be seen, his work is still an insult.
Likewise a blasphemy can be expressed, or a taboo
broken, unwittingly; and an insult arise with no
intent.

Insults and jokes are closely related. An insult,
however, is not a joke. Generally, a joke stimulates
positive emotions such as pleasure, laughter, etc,
while an insult stimulates negative emotions such as
anger, humiliation, etc. You might wonder then, what
constructive use humor is to the purpose of an insult.
If the insult is public (has an audience), humor can
further compound the complexity of the insult by
soliciting laughter. The insulted party will see this
as others laughing at him or her and feel negative
emotions - typically humiliation, isolation,
situational impotence, etc - in addition to the
specific impact of the insult. Tactically, therefore,
humor is highly constructive to a public insult. In a
private insult (no audience other than the target),
humor can serve as a display of ingenuity, undermining
the insulted party's ability to retaliate with an
equally witty or cutting retort, thereby compounding
his or her distress by generating additional feelings
of inferiority.

In group dynamics, insults can be inclusive,
ritualistic or exclusionary. They can reinforce shared
group identities and values and enable interpersonal
bonds between members of the group. Insults can,
paradoxically, signal status within the group by being
aimed at those who are robust enough to withstand them
by others of similar elevated status. Ritualistic
insults are often used as a form of initiation into a
group - for example, the "rites of passage" or
humiliation rituals used in armies. Exclusionary
insults are aimed at unpopular members, and both
reinforce the group's identity and elevate its status
by devaluing others who are not members of the group.
Insults are too dynamic in nature to be used as a
formulated group strategy, but their cathartic and ad
hoc nature can be a useful technique in allowing for
the discharge of pent-up emotion or the introduction of
a specific criticism in a 'jocular' or
semi-confrontational manner.

If the kernel of an insult is the belief that one's
status has been diminished, then the art of insult is
in diminishing the status of another. That implies that
an insult is a weapon used to inflict psychological
injury. However, it is healthier to understand an
insult as being a tool, rather than a weapon.
Nevertheless, if insults are to be understood as a
weapon, then they are a weapon that can be used for
good or for bad; for attack or for defense - just as a
knife or any other weapon can.

We've all heard the old schoolyard taunt, "Sticks and
stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt
me." Actually, a word can inflict a more powerful
injury than a stick or stone - especially when written
on a bottle and smashed over someone's skull!

- Insultmonger.com Webmaster




Appendix: Quotations about Insults

The point of quotations is that one can use another's
words to be insulting.
- Amanda Cross

I've always followed my father's advice. He told me,
first to always keep my word and, second, to never
insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you
can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me
not to go around looking for trouble.
- John Wayne

The way to procure insults is to submit to them: a man
meets with no more respect than he exacts.
- William Hazlitt

To add insult to injury.
- Phaedrus

He who allows himself to be insulted, deserves to be.
- Pierre Corneille

I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from
their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened
her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone.
- Edmund Burke

I'm not intending to imply insult or judgment here but
I am curious to know in order to be able to respond to
your posts in an appropriate manner, so please forgive
what appears to be, but in fact is not intended as, an
insulting question: Are you stupid?
- Melinda Shore

The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone
was the founder of civilization.
- Sigmund Freud

Popularity is the one insult I have never suffered.
- Oscar Wilde

A husband should not insult his wife publicly, at
parties. He should insult her in the privacy of the
home.
- James Thurber

A gentleman will not insult me, and no man not a
gentleman can insult me.
- Frederick Douglass

The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore
it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top
it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's
probably deserved.
- Russell Lynes

Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself
disappears.
- Marcus Aurelius

An injury is much sooner forgotten than an insult.
- Lord Chesterfield

A wise man is superior to any insults which can be put
upon him, and the best reply to unseemly behavior is
patience and moderation.
- Molière

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
- Eleanor Roosevelt

It belongs to human nature to hate those you have
injured.
- Agricola Tacitus

I do not waste my time in answering abuse; I thrive
under it like a field that benefits from manure.
- Henry Labouchere

It is often better not to see an insult than to avenge
it.
- Seneca

We like so much to hear people talk of us and of our
motives, that we are charmed even when they abuse us.
- Marie de Sevigne

Men are apt to offend ('tis true) where they find most
goodness to forgive.
- William Congreve

One may be continually abusive without saying any thing
just; but one cannot be always laughing at a man
without now and then stumbling on something witty.
- Jane Austen

Whipping and abuse are like laudanum; you have to
double the dose as the sensibilities decline.
- Harriet Beecher Stowe

Calculated risks of abuse are taken in order to
preserve higher values.
- Warren E. Burger

If a man's character is to be abused, say what you
will, there's nobody like a relation to do the
business.
- William Makepeace Thackery


"Doan" wrote in message
...

Once again, Doug outclassed Kane0! Ain't you just
tired of the
name-callings from the "never-spanked" Kane? ;-)

Doan

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, Doug wrote:

Kane had written:

Kane: So whaddahyahthink douggie boy. Criminal
Court or Civil family
court? How about you greegor?

To which, I had replied:

Criminal court is where felonies are heard.

To which, Kane replies:

Yes. Is all child abuse then felonious?

Hi, Kane,

No, child abuse of lesser degrees are misdemeanors.
They are also heard in
criminal court.

If you recall, you posted a newsstory about a person
being charged with a
felony because he was alledged to have abused a
child and asked me (see
above) whether it would be tried in civil or
criminal court.

I answered (above) criminal court.

And you would be, obviously, allowing a great deal
of abuse and neglect
to go unhindered because it just missed the
severest levels of injury.
You are sick, sir. Very.

Child abuse and neglect of very minor degree are
covered in misdemeanor
criminal statutes in all fifty states. One such
criminal violation is
"child endangerment," which often involves the lack
of action, or neglect.
These are tried in criminal court.

To say that criminal courts handle only the severest
levels of "injury" is
an outright misstatement of fact. Most prosecutions
for child maltreatment
are for lessor abuse or neglect are misdemeanors.
They are tried in
criminal court.

A great deal of denial goes on until the crimes
exceed the civil and
become the felonious.

Nope. An act abusing or endangering children need
not rise to the level of
a felony to be investigated by police and tried in
criminal court. In fact,
minor abuse and neglect are violations of criminal
law and prosecuted as
misdeamenors in criminal court. It is NOT a
question of exceeding "civil,"
it is a question of whether the crime of child abuse
is at the level of
misdeameanor or felony.

Some are. You ignore that if all child abuse were
to go to the police
for investigation the costs would be astronomical.
Newbie cops aren't
detectives. Or were you unaware that they are the
ones doing
investigations? ALL of them?

I know for a fact, as do most people in the field,
that "ALL" criminal child
abuse investigations are decidedly NOT done by
"newbie cops." In point of
fact, veteran detectives on most forces specialize
in child abuse
investigation. The federal government funds
intensive trainings throughout
the country for detectives.

But even "newbie" detective is much better trained
in how to gather evidence
and interview collaterals than a social service
worker. This is one of the
facts persuading state legislatures to remove the
investigative role from
social service bureaucracies and give it to law
enforcement, who are trained
in such matters. A "newbie" detective doesn't know
anything about "risk
assessments" that dock parents points toward being
neglectful if they are
under 30 years old, but that, again, is another
reason why they are better
suited to do the investigations.

You are wrong. It, like a great deal of crime,
(some criminalogists
claim ALL is disease, social disease) is in fact a
social disease. Your
magical thinking, your errors in judgement are
fully exposed with such
a statement. Child abuse is most certainly a
disease. Sometimes it's
also a crime.

Child abuse decidedly is NOT a disease. It does not
meet the criteria of a
disease. Your shoot from the hip argumentation
fails to consider the
criteria of a disease. It is a severe thinking
error to entertain the
notion that child abuse has the components necessary
to be classified as a
disease. Is it diagnoised? Does it have a
biophysical element?

A disease is a condition.

A crime is a behavior.

The defination of a disease is exacting. Neither
the AMA or the APA
considers the behavior of child abuse to be a
disease. In fact, no one to
my knowledge other than yourself has so classified
it. Do you have any
references....a single authority that makes such an
absurd claim?

Child abuse is a crime.

Of course it is. That it is a disease does not
preclude it being also a
crime.

It is not a disease. It is a crime.

Chemical addiction is a disease. It is not a crime.

Wrongful possession of controlled substances is a
crime. It is not a
disease.

And that is is a crime does not preclude it being
also a disease.

Child abuse is a crime. That it is a crime does not
make it a disease.
Child abuse is not a disease because it does not
meet the criteria of being
a disease. Child abuse is not a condition. It is a
behavior. That it is
not a disease does not preclude the behavior from
being a crime. Depending
on its severity, the behavior or lack of behavior is
a misdemeanor or a
felony.

Check you thinking, Kane. And, please, if you have
any authority charged
with defining disease calling child abuse a disease,
please cite it.

More thinking error on your part, or a deliberate
attempt again to
manipulate and mislead the reader into the
simplistic either/or trap of
error in judgement.

LOL! Not at all. Child abuse does not meet the
criteria of being a
disease. It fails to meet two of the components.
Do you know which ones?

To come out of the blue and attempt to claim that
child abuse is a disease
is manipulative. It is not accurate.

A disease is condition.

A crime is a behavior (or lack of a required one).

I doubt that outside of the two previously
mentioned, even the most
ardent opponents of CPS here would miss your
little ploy above, and not
appreciate that someone as intelligent as you
(hence it would be
deliberate, not an accident) would insult their
intelligence so
cavalierly.

LOL! You may want to look up the defination of a
disease. Most, if not
all, of the readers here know that child abuse is
decidedly not a disease.
I was not telling them something they don't know.

Yes, there is crime that is a disease that when
acted out produces
results that are so injurious that they must be
prosecuted in criminal
court. That nether removes the fact it's a
disease, nor does it stop
the court from sentencing the actors to
rehabilitation services, as YOU
yourself once pointed out in one of our usual
exchanges on this
subject.

Nope. Child abuse decidedly does not lay limpant as
a disease and then
suddenly surface as a criminal behavior. There is
no such thing as a latent
child abuse disease.

Child abuse does not exist unless a child is abused.
Child abuse is an
illegal behavior that occurs in various levels of
severity, and are
prosecuted in criminal court as either misdemeanors
or felonies based upon
the level of severity.

Your position that child abuse is a disease whose
symptoms are at first
latent is absurd. What are the symptoms of this
latent disease before it is
"acted out?"

LOL! Your theory is halarious. But it is not held
by those who define
disease or those who draw up criminal statutes.

Child abuse is not a disease.

Child abuse is a crime.

A demitasse would fit his head like a sombrero.

A guy with your IQ should have a low voice too!

A half-wit gave you a piece of his mind, and you held
on to it.

A sharp tongue is no indication of a keen mind.

After meeting you, I've decided I am in favor of
abortion in cases of incest.

All of your ancestors must number in the millions; it's
hard to believe that many people are to blame for
producing you.

All that you are you owe to your parents. Why don't you
send them a penny and square the account?

Alone: In bad company.

And there he was: reigning supreme at number two.

Any friend of yours ... is a friend of yours.

Any similarity between you and a human is purely
coincidental!

Anyone who told you to be yourself couldn't have given
you worse advice.

Are you always so stupid or is today a special
occasion?

Are you brain-dead?

Are your parents siblings?

As an outsider, what do you think of the human race?

As useless as rubber lips on a woodpecker. ~ Earl Pitts
~

As welcome as a rattlesnake at a square dance. ~ Robert
Reinhold ~

At least you are not obnoxious like so many other
people - you are obnoxious in a different and worse
way!

Before you came along we were hungry. Now we are fed
up.

Believe me, I don't want to make a monkey out of you.
Why should I take all the credit?

Better at sex than anyone, now all he needs is a
partner.

Brains aren't everything. In fact, in your case they're
nothing!

Calling you stupid would be an insult to stupid people.

Can I borrow your face for a few days while my ass is
on vacation?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Forums are invitation only groups of like minded
folks that wish to
discuss a specific issue.

Newgroups on Usenet do not have the same protocols
for a very good
reason: unless moderated they are precisely to
encourage the new and
interesting and controversial and disagreeable, even
the stupid and
misinformed.

That's why I LOVE having you here, you old POOPer.

The information doesn't apply. It's from a commercial
source as well.

You planning on doing some "business" on
alt.support.fp?

R R R RR R R

0:-


Pop wrote:
This "netiquette" guide will help you and others
make
the most of the forum.
a.. Please welcome newcomers. Writing a first
topic
on a forum can be daunting, so please be friendly
and
welcoming.


b.. Use proper spelling and grammar. Do not write
entire posts in "netspeak"; it's difficult to read,
and
not everyone knows what the abbreviations mean.


c.. DON'T SHOUT. Typing in all caps is considered
shouting, and is rude and difficult to read.


d.. Please do not post multiple copies of a
message;
pick the most appropriate place and post it once.


e.. When starting a topic, make sure the title is
descriptive and relevant. You should also check to
see
if anybody else has already posted the same
information
or question.


f.. If you are replying to the last post in a long
thread, it is perfectly acceptable to simply answer
it.
However, if you are replying to a post further up in
the thread, you may want to include a quote from, or
a
short recap of the post to which you are replying.


g.. Be original. Don't overquote; copying a long
post
just to add "I agree" or "me too" is considered bad
form. Make sure you have something insightful to
say,
and only quote the text that you are directly
replying
to.


h.. Don't post consecutively. There is no need to
post reply after reply in the same thread. Every
post
can be edited and spelling mistakes should be
corrected
by editing, not by re-posting.


i.. Stay on-topic. Our Lantern forum is for
discussion of Lantern titles and related subjects
(Vegetarianism, Animal Rights, Spirituality, Natural
Health, Environmentalism). Our off-topic forum is
for
all other topics. Be sure to post in the correct
place.


j.. "Flaming" is insulting another user's post,
opinions, subject, grammar or pretty much anything
else
in an attempt to pick an online fight. While debate
and
disagreement are fine, we will not tolerate
rudeness,
insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless
inflammatory posts.


k.. Ignore "trolls." Some people get a thrill from
posting "flames" (really obnoxious messages) just to
get a rise out of others. The best way to make them
go
away is to ignore them; they'll get bored and go
somewhere else.


l.. "Spam" (unsolicited commercial advertisements)
is
forbidden. This includes using the forum email and
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m.. Please do not give away your personal
information, which includes your phone number and
home
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n.. We recommend reading the forum without posting
for a while. This is known as "lurking," and it will
give you the flavor of the forum. It's best to
understand the culture before you jump in.


o.. Lantern reserves the right to remove offensive
posts without notice. Lantern also reserves the
right
to ban anyone who willfully violates the above Forum
Etiquette Guide.


p.. If you have any questions or concerns, you may
post them here or contact a member of the Lantern
staff. (All Lantern staff members are noted when
they
post.)
wrote in message
ups.com...
Gee POOPer, you seem to be lagging behind. It
seems
to take forever for
you to catch up with my "non-support of foster
parents" postings.

I wonder what foster parents themselves would say
about what Wex, for
instance, or Ron, or myself post here?

My guess?

All foster related or linked to issues of
important
to foster parents.

In other words, you are making a perfect, and I
mean
precisely perfect,
pluperfect, fool of yourself.

Come on, what's holdin' you up today, besides your
choker set
suspenders?

R R R R R R R

0:-

It's hard to get the big picture when you have such a
small screen.

I've come across decomposed bodies that are less
offensive than you are.

I've had many cases of love that were just infatuation,
but this hate I feel for you is the real thing.

I've hated your looks from the start they gave me.

I've only got one nerve left, and you're getting on it.

I've seen people like you, but I had to pay admission!

Judging by the old saying, "What you don't know can't
hurt you," he's practically invulnerable.

Keep talking, someday you'll say something intelligent!

Keep talking. I always yawn when I'm interested.

Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control!

Let's play horse. I'll be the front end and you be
yourself.

Let's play house. You be the door and I'll slam you.

Look, don't go to a mind reader; go to a palmist; I
know you've got a palm.

Make a mental note . . . oh, I see you're out of paper!

Make somebody happy. Mind your own business.

Man alive! But I wish you weren't.

Moonlight becomes you - total darkness even more!

Never enter a battle of wits unarmed.

Nice to see you on your feet. Who sent the derrick?

No one will ever know that you've had a lobotomy, if
you wear a wig to hide to the scars and learn to
control the slobbering.

Nobody says that you are dumb. They just say you were
sixteen years old before you learned how to wave
good-bye.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

Of all the people I've met you're certainly one of
them.

Ordinarily people live and learn. You just live.

Pardon me, but you've obviously mistaken me for someone
who gives a damn.

People can't say that you have absolutely nothing!
After all, you have inferiority!

People clap when they see you - their hands over their
eyes or ears.

People say that you are outspoken but not by anyone
that I know of.

People say that you are the perfect idiot. I say that
you are not perfect but you are doing all right.

Perhaps your whole purpose in life is simply to serve
as a warning to others.

Please breathe the other way. You're bleaching my hair.

She could eat a watermelon through a picket fence!

She had a mouth dirtier than a wicker toilet seat.

She has a nice butter face. Everything looks nice, but
her face.

She thinks the rearview mirror is for putting on
make-up.

She was another one of his near Mrs.

She's a lot like train tracks - she's been laid across
the country.

She's got a body that won't quit and a brain that won't
start.

She's got more chins than the Hong Kong telephone book.

She's like Taco Bell. When people see her, they run for
the border.

She's so ugly they used to put a pot roast in her lap
so the dog would play with her.

She's so ugly, she'd make a freight train take a dirt
road!

Sit down and give your mind a rest.

Slit your wrists - it will lower your blood pressure.

So stupid, he moves his lips when watching TV.

So ugly, robbers give him their masks to wear.

So, a thought crossed your mind? Must have been a long
and lonely journey.

Some day you will find yourself - and wish you hadn't.

Some drink from the fountain of knowledge, but he just
gargled.

Some folks are so dumb, they have to be watered twice a
week.

Some people are has-beens. You are a never-was.

Some people don't hesitate to speak their minds because
they have nothing to lose.

Somebody else is doing the driving for that boy!

Someday you'll go far, if you catch the right train.

Someone said you are not fit to sleep with pigs. I
stuck up for the pigs.

Someone said you are not fit to sleep with pigs. I
stuck up for you and said, 'oh yes she is.'

Someone took a photo of you once but it didn't turn
out. You could be seen too clearly.

Take a vacation; go to Club Dead.

Take off that mask! Don't you think it's a little early
for Halloween?

Talk is cheap, but so are you.

That's a very meaty question and I'd like to give it a
very meaty answer -baloney!

The closest she/he'll ever get to a brainstorm is a
slight drizzle.

The cream rises to the top. So does the scum.

The going got weird and he turned pro.

The inbreeding is certainly obvious in your family.

The next time you shave, could you stand a little
closer to the razor?

The only thing he brought to this job was his car.

The overwhelming power of the sex drive was
demonstrated by the fact that someone was willing to
father you.

The thing that terrifies me the most is that someone
might hate me as much as I loathe you.

The twinkle in his eyes is actually the sun shining
between his ears.

The wheel is still spinning but the hamster died.

There are only two things I dislike about her - her
face.

There are several people in this world that I find
obnoxious and you are all of them.

There is no vaccine against stupidity.

They just invented a new coffin just for you that goes
over the head. It's for people who are dead from the
neck up.

They said you were a great asset. I told them they were
off by two letters.

They say opposites attract. I hope you meet someone who
is good-looking, intelligent, and cultured.

They say space is a dangerous place . . . especially if
it's between your ears!

They say that travel broadens one. You must have been
around the world.

They say that two heads are better than one. In your
case, one would have been better than none.

They say truth is stranger than fiction. Look, your
mother gave birth to you.

They shot him through the stupid forest, and he didn't
miss a tree.

Thinking isn't your strong suit, is it? --from "Lost In
Space"

This is no battle of wits between you and me. I never
pick on an unarmed man.

Too bad stupidity isn't painful.

We all spring from apes but you didn't spring far
enough.

We do not complain about your shortcomings but about
your long stayings.

We heard that when you ran away from home your folks
sent you a note saying, "Do not come home and all will
be forgiven."

We know that you would give your life for us. Promises,
promises!

We know that you would go to the end of the world for
us. But would you stay there?

We know you could not live without us. We'll pay for
the funeral.

We'll get along fine as soon as you realize I'm God.

Well, I'll see you in my dreams - if I eat too much.

What color is the sky in your world?

What he lacks in intelligence, he more than makes up
for in stupidity.

Whatever anyone says to you goes in one ear and out the
other because nothing is blocking traffic.

Whatever is eating you - must be suffering horribly.

What's the latest dope - besides you?

When God was throwing intelligence down to the Earth,
you were holding an umbrella.

When I look into your eyes, I see the back of your
head.

When you die, I'd like to go to your funeral but I'll
probably have to go to work that day. I believe in
business before pleasure.

When you die, you should have your brain donated to
science. I hear they're trying to come up with the
perfect vacuum.

When you feel terrific, notify your face.

When you fell out of the ugly tree, you hit every
branch on the way down.

When you get run over by a car it shouldn't be listed
under accidents.

When you pass away and people ask me what the cause of
your death was, I'll say your stupidity.

When you were a child your mother wanted to hire
someone to take care of you but the Mafia wanted too
much.

When you were born, God admitted that even He could
make a mistake!

Whom am I calling "stupid"? I don't know. What's your
name?

Why don't you go to the library and brush up on your
ignorance?

With a mind like yours, who needs a body?

Worst-dressed sentient being in the known universe.

Would you like some cheese and crackers to go with that
whine?

Would you like to replace my business partner who died
this morning? I'll arrange it with the undertaker.

You always have your ear to the ground. So how's life
in the gutter?

You are a man of the world -- and you know what sad
shape the world is in.

You are about as useful as a windshield wiper on a
goat's ass.

You are as strong as an ox and almost as intelligent.

You are down to earth but not quite far down enough.

You are living proof that manure can grow legs and
walk.

You are no longer beneath my contempt.

You are not as bad as people say - you are worse!

You are pretty as a picture and we'd love to hang you.

You are so boring that you can't even entertain a
doubt.

You are so dishonest that I can't even be sure that
what you tell me are lies!

You are so dumb you sit on the TV and watch the sofa.

You are so fat that I hear you were arrested three
times for jaywalking when all the time you were just
standing on the corner waiting for the light to change.

You are so stupid you got hit by a parked car

You are such a smart-ass I bet you could sit on a
carton of ice cream and tell what flavor it is.
(Thanks, Erin and Justin Keller)

You are the kind of person who, when one first meets
you, one doesn't like you. But when one gets to know
you better, one hates you.

You could throw her in the river and skim ugly for two
days.

You don't sweat much, for a fat girl.

You grow on people - like a wart!

You have a face only a mother could love - and she
hates it!

You have a good weapon against muggers - your face!

You have a lot of well-wishers. They would all like to
throw you down one.

You have a speech impediment ... your foot.

You have a striking face. Tell me, how many times were
you struck there?

You have an inferiority complex - and it's fully
justified.

You have no trouble making ends meet. Your foot is
always in your mouth!

You liked your first chin so much, you added two more.

You make me believe in reincarnation. Nobody can be as
stupid as you in one lifetime.

You must have a low opinion of people if you think
they're your equals.

You must have gotten up on the wrong side of the cage
this morning.

You possess a mind not merely twisted, but actually
sprained.

You remind me of the ocean - you make me sick.

You say that you are always bright and early. Well OK,
we know you are early.

You should be the poster child for birth control.

You should do some soul-searching. Maybe you'll find
one.

You should have been born in the Dark Ages; you look
terrible in the light.

You should toss out more of your funny remarks; that's
all they're good for.

You started at the bottom - and it's been downhill ever
since.

You used to be arrogant and obnoxious. Now you are just
the opposite. You are obnoxious and arrogant.

You were born because your mother didn't believe in
abortion; now she believes in infanticide.

You were the answer to a prayer. Your parents prayed
that the world would be made to suffer and here you
came along.

You will never be able to live down to your reputation!

Your conversation is like the waves of the sea. It
makes me sick!

Your dog is so stupid, he chases parked cars.

Your family tree is good but you are the sap.

Your mouth is getting too big for your muzzle.

Your teeth are like stars - they come out at night.

Your verbosity is exceeded only by your stupidity.

You're a habit I'd like to kick; with both feet.

You're acquitting yourself in a way that no jury ever
would.

You're like one of those "idiot savants," except
without the "savant" part.

You're nobody's fool. Let's see if we can get someone
to adopt you.

You're not yourself today. I noticed the improvement
immediately.

You're so dumb you thought Taco Bell was a phone
company.

You're so fat when you jumped up you got stuck.

You're so fat you got baptized at Sea World.

You're so fat you laid down in the ocean and Spain
claimed you as the New World.

You're so fat you saw 90210 on a scale.

You're so fat you use hoola-hoops to keep your socks
up.

You're so fat, when you wear a yellow rain coat people
scream ''taxi''.

You're so low you could milk a pregnant snake!

You're so old you drove a chariot to school.

You're so slow it takes you an hour and a half to watch
"Sixty Minutes."

You're so small, you pose for trophies.

You're so stupid you threw a rock at the ground and
missed.

You're so stupid you trip over the cord of a cellular
phone!

You're so ugly when you went to a haunted house they
offered you a job.

You're so ugly you almost look like your mother.

You're so ugly you have to trick or treat over the
phone.

You're so ugly you make blind kids cry.

You're so ugly your husband goes everywhere alone.

You're so ugly your husband takes you with him
everywhere he goes so he doesn't have to kiss you bye.

You're so ugly, when you walk into taco bell, EVERYONE
runs for the border!

You're very smart. You have brains you never used.

You've got your head so far up your ass you can chew
your food twice.

You've never been outspoken; no one has ever been able
to.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Forums are invitation only groups of like minded
folks that wish to
discuss a specific issue.

Newgroups on Usenet do not have the same protocols
for a very good
reason: unless moderated they are precisely to
encourage the new and
interesting and controversial and disagreeable, even
the stupid and
misinformed.

That's why I LOVE having you here, you old POOPer.

The information doesn't apply. It's from a commercial
source as well.

You planning on doing some "business" on
alt.support.fp?

R R R RR R R

0:-


Pop wrote:
This "netiquette" guide will help you and others
make
the most of the forum.
a.. Please welcome newcomers. Writing a first
topic
on a forum can be daunting, so please be friendly
and
welcoming.


b.. Use proper spelling and grammar. Do not write
entire posts in "netspeak"; it's difficult to read,
and
not everyone knows what the abbreviations mean.


c.. DON'T SHOUT. Typing in all caps is considered
shouting, and is rude and difficult to read.


d.. Please do not post multiple copies of a
message;
pick the most appropriate place and post it once.


e.. When starting a topic, make sure the title is
descriptive and relevant. You should also check to
see
if anybody else has already posted the same
information
or question.


f.. If you are replying to the last post in a long
thread, it is perfectly acceptable to simply answer
it.
However, if you are replying to a post further up in
the thread, you may want to include a quote from, or
a
short recap of the post to which you are replying.


g.. Be original. Don't overquote; copying a long
post
just to add "I agree" or "me too" is considered bad
form. Make sure you have something insightful to
say,
and only quote the text that you are directly
replying
to.


h.. Don't post consecutively. There is no need to
post reply after reply in the same thread. Every
post
can be edited and spelling mistakes should be
corrected
by editing, not by re-posting.


i.. Stay on-topic. Our Lantern forum is for
discussion of Lantern titles and related subjects
(Vegetarianism, Animal Rights, Spirituality, Natural
Health, Environmentalism). Our off-topic forum is
for
all other topics. Be sure to post in the correct
place.


j.. "Flaming" is insulting another user's post,
opinions, subject, grammar or pretty much anything
else
in an attempt to pick an online fight. While debate
and
disagreement are fine, we will not tolerate
rudeness,
insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless
inflammatory posts.


k.. Ignore "trolls." Some people get a thrill from
posting "flames" (really obnoxious messages) just to
get a rise out of others. The best way to make them
go
away is to ignore them; they'll get bored and go
somewhere else.


l.. "Spam" (unsolicited commercial advertisements)
is
forbidden. This includes using the forum email and
private message system to spam other members.


m.. Please do not give away your personal
information, which includes your phone number and
home
address.


n.. We recommend reading the forum without posting
for a while. This is known as "lurking," and it will
give you the flavor of the forum. It's best to
understand the culture before you jump in.


o.. Lantern reserves the right to remove offensive
posts without notice. Lantern also reserves the
right
to ban anyone who willfully violates the above Forum
Etiquette Guide.


p.. If you have any questions or concerns, you may
post them here or contact a member of the Lantern
staff. (All Lantern staff members are noted when
they
post.)
wrote in message
ups.com...
Gee POOPer, you seem to be lagging behind. It
seems
to take forever for
you to catch up with my "non-support of foster
parents" postings.

I wonder what foster parents themselves would say
about what Wex, for
instance, or Ron, or myself post here?

My guess?

All foster related or linked to issues of
important
to foster parents.

In other words, you are making a perfect, and I
mean
precisely perfect,
pluperfect, fool of yourself.

Come on, what's holdin' you up today, besides your
choker set
suspenders?

R R R R R R R

0:-

Kane writes:

Some crime does. Some crime comes under civil law. The police may not
even see it. That is the point of CPS. To keep it from becoming, as you
pointed out in an earlier post, felonious.

Hi, Kane,

Crime comes under criminal statutes. The misdemeanor charge of child
endangerment is not investigated by CPS and does not fall under civil law.
Child endangerment is investigated by police and tried in criminal court.
More severe child abuse is investigated by police and is prosecuted in
criminal court as a felony.

There is nothing false in my statement defining and clarifying what you
are up to.

The falsity is in your statements. You know nothing about what an author of
a post is "up to." My purpose is to discuss the issues, not the motivation
of those who take positions on those issues. If you are so involved in the
witchcraft of guessing at people's motives, you'll have to go it alone.

They are so well trained they even know when to stop and turn a case
over to a police detective for investigation.

The literature abounds with research that disputes your contention. It is a
common complaint among CWLA and other child welfare agencies that CPS
workers are poorly trained.

Not all child abuse is a felony. Not all child abuse rises to the level
of the perp being a felon.

Not all crimes of child abuse are felonies. Most criminal violations of
child abuse statutes are misdemeanors. Child abuse is a crime. Not all
child abuse rises to the level of the perp being a felon, you're right.
That is why states have the lower theshold of "misdemeanor" for the crime of
child abuse.

Yes, that is correct, but in no way negates my statement. When CPS
opens a case, and there is no evidence in the allegation call to
suggest strong likelihood of a felony, CPS will investigate. If such
evidence shows up, they will turn the case over to the police,
sometimes still being part of the investigative team. Please stop this
lying Doug. It's unfair to confuse the reader that might not know your
history.

There need not be evidence to suggest strong likelihood of a felony for the
crime of child abuse to be turned over to police. Most criminal
prosecutions for child abuse are misdemeanors. Most investigations by
police overall are for misdemeanors.

Have a great day!

Doug wrote:

..=2E..yet another epistle ripe with thinking errors, and misinformation.
I'll take just one as an example, as the others, if anyone cares to
read and think, are simply hairsplitting bull**** as usual:

..=2E...snip..........

Child abuse decidedly is NOT a disease. It does not meet the criteria of=
a
disease. Your shoot from the hip argumentation fails to consider the
criteria of a disease. It is a severe thinking error to entertain the
notion that child abuse has the components necessary to be classified as a
disease. Is it diagnoised? Does it have a biophysical element?

A disease is a condition.

A crime is a behavior.

Sorry, one can have both in the same individual.

And sorry also but disease by definition, as you claim below is
anything but....

The defination of a disease is exacting.

No it isn't. Damn near every field has differing definitions of
"disease."

And where do you get the idea that having a "behavior" precludes having
a "disease?" In fact often a "behavior" is a clue to what disease a
person suffers from.

Both the victim and the child can suffer from the disease of child
abuse, as well of the behavior of child abuse. You are full of your
usual bluff, known in some circles as BULL****!

Yer out of yer everlovin' mind, douggieboy, and now you are even lying
to yourself.

# an impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# A disease is any abnormal condition of the body or mind that causes
discomfort, dysfunction, or distress to the person affected or those in
contact with the person. Sometimes the term is used broadly to include
injuries, disabilities, syndromes, symptoms, deviant behaviors, and
atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts
these may be considered distinguishable categories.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease

# Any malfunctioning of host cells and tissues that results from
continuous irritation by a pathogenic agent or environmental factor and
leads to development of symptoms.
www.ento.okstate.edu/Pddl/glossary.htm

# Prevalence
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpb/lcdc/publ...jhs/cjhs4.html

# one of the 'divine messengers' (deva-d=FAta, qv).
www.budsas.org/ebud/bud-dict/dic3_d.htm

# Any condition which is results in a fall in the level of health of an
animal. For a disease condition to exist, there must be three
predisposing factors, 1. A disease agent, 2. A host for the disease
agent, 3. The environmental conditions which make the host susceptible
to the disease agent. Most of the time, animals (the host) live in a
state of equilibrium with the pathogens (the disease agent) in their
environment. A change in environment can stress the fish, and weaken
it's defences against the pathogen, giving it the opportunity to
multiply and result in a disease
www.aquatext.com/list-d.htm

# Process injurious to health and/or longevity
http://www.gastric-bypass-treatment....-glossary.aspx

# An abnormal condition of body structure and function, usually
indicated by symptoms.
http://www.sdnhm.org/exhibits/epidem.../glossary.html

# Formally speaking, a disease is the condition in which the
functioning of the body or a part of the body is interfered with or
damaged. In a person with an infectious disease, the infectious agent
that has entered the body causes it to function abnormally in some way
or ways. The type of abnormal functioning that occurs is the disease.
Usually the body will show some signs and symptoms of the problems it
is having with functioning. Disease should not be confused with
infection.
www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/mnpages/glossary.htm

# A harmful deviation from the normal functioning of physiological and
biochemical processes caused by plant pathogens (fungi, viruses,
bacteria, parasites).
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/inst/rese...ice/Dterms.htm

# Any disturbance of a plant that interferes with its normal structure,
function, or economic value.
www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/glossary.html

# A deleterious change in the body's condition in response to
destabilizing factors, such as nutrition, chemicals, or biological
agents.
highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0070294267/student_view0/glossary_a-d.html

# stress condition produced by the effects of a pathogen on a
susceptible host.
scarab.msu.montana.edu/historybug/glossary.htm

# an abnormal bodily condition of a living plant or animal that
interferes with functioning and can usually be recognized by signs,
symptoms, and illness.
whyfiles.larc.nasa.gov/text/kids/Problem_Board/problems/biosphere/glossary.=
html

# Illness or sickness often characterized by typical patient problems
(symptoms) and physical findings (signs).
www.arabinfo.org/montogomery/Terms.htm

# An abnormal condition of a plant in which its physiology, morphology,
and/or development is altered under the continuous influence of a
pathogen. (3)
ppathw3.cals.cornell.edu/glossary/Defs_D.htm

# A condition of an organism that impairs normal physiological
function. Also see Infectious Disease.
fightaidsathome.scripps.edu/glossary.html

# A combination of lung diseases including emphysema and bronchitis.
Emphysema is a chronic disease in which the small air sacs in the lungs
(the alveoli) become damaged, resulting in difficulty breathing.
Bronchitis is an inflammation of the bronchial tubes (which connect the
trachea to the lungs), characterized by blockage of airflow in and out
of the lungs.
www.ahrq.gov/data/hcup/factbk1/fctbk5.htm

# Any abnormality of bodily structure or function, other than those
arising directly from injury.
http://www.canadapharma.org/Patient_...lossary_Terms/

# Literally, dis-ease, lack of ease; pathological condition that
presents a group of symptoms peculiar to it and which establishes the
condition as an abnormal entity different from other normal or
pathological body states. discontinuous effect: See SN intermittent
effect
www.sis.nlm.nih.gov/Glossary/d.html

# Lack of ease; deviation from normal.
http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/...ctionaryD.html

# Illness, sickness. An interruption, cessation, or disorder of body
functions, systems, or organs. Top of page
http://www.rationaltherapeutics.com/...e/glossary.htm

# A condition of the body in which there is incorrect function due to
heredity, infection, diet, or environment.
http://www.mdk12.org/mspp/vsc/scienc...glossary.shtml

# Disease can be defined in three ways:
http://www.med.uwo.ca/ecosystemhealt...n/glossary.htm

# Periodontal disease is the deterioration of the supporting structures
of the teeth.
www.jasonforddds.com/faqs.html

# a state in which a function or part of the body is no longer in a
healthy condition
lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/allergybegone/glossary.html

# a medically definable process, in terms of pathophysiology and
pathology. Illness is what the patient experiences.
www.therubins.com/geninfo/Definit.htm




Neither the AMA or the APA
considers the behavior of child abuse to be a disease. In fact, no one to
my knowledge other than yourself has so classified it. Do you have any
references....a single authority that makes such an absurd claim?

As usual, trying to blow smoke up the readers ass:

http://www.henryfordhealth.org/12640.cfm

"
Health Encyclopedia Health Encyclopedia Health Encyclopedia
Health Encyclopedia Health Encyclopedia

Health Encyclopedia
Back to main Health Information page
Disease - Battered child syndrome

Fracture types (1)
Fracture types (1)

Definition:

Battered child syndrome refers to children who have undergone physical
abuse that has left them with both physical and psychological trauma.

Alternative Names:

Non-accidental trauma (NAT); Child abuse

Causes And Risk:

Physical abuse of children occurs in every socioeconomic class, though
it is most common amongst the poor due to increased stress and greater
lack of control over stressful circumstances.

Abuse tends to occur at moments of greatest stress, when the
perpetrator strikes out in anger at the child. Many perpetrators were
themselves abused as children and they often don=B4t realize that abuse
is not appropriate discipline. Abusers also frequently have poor
impulse control, which prevents them from thinking through the
consequences of their actions.

Because of the relative size and strength difference between adults and
children, the abused child can be severely injured or killed
unintentionally. Shaking an infant, for example, can cause bleeding
over the brain (subdural hematoma) which can cause permanent brain
damage or death (shaken baby syndrome).

The incidence of child abuse is remarkably high. The total abuse rate
is 25.2 per 1,000 children with physical abuse counting for 5.7 per
1000, sexual abuse 2.5 per 1,000, emotional abuse 3.4 per 1000 and
neglect accounting for the vast majority, 15.9 per 1,000 children. Of
course, these categories often overlap, with sexual and physical abuse
often occurring together and with sexual abuse, physical abuse or
neglect seldom occurring without emotional abuse.

These numbers may also be underestimates due to failure to diagnose or
report this problem. Risk factors include poverty, lack of education,
single parenthood, alcoholism or other drug addictions and a host of
other factors.

Prevention:

Recognition of pending abuse can help prevent actual abuse. Warning
signs include the following:

* Abuse history (such as previous abuse of the child or the
child=B4s siblings)
* Lack of apparent parental love or concern
* Failure to maintain the child=B4s proper hygiene or care
* Parental alcohol or drug problems
* Parental emotional problems or mental illness
* History of abuse in the parent=B4s childhood
* High stress factors in the family life

Intervention with counseling may prevent abuse when any of these
factors are present. Watchful guidance and support from the extended
family, friends, clergy, or other supportive persons or groups may
prevent abuse or may allow early intervention in cases of abuse.

Symptoms:

* Appearance at an emergency room with an injured child and one or
both of the following:
o An improbable explanation of the cause of the injury
o An injury that is not recent
* Bruise marks shaped like hands, fingers, or objects (such as a
belt)
* Specific patterns of scalding (seen when a conscious child is
immersed in hot water)
* Burns from an electric stove, radiator, heater or other hot
objects on the child=B4s hands or buttocks
* Cigarette burns on exposed areas or the genitals
* Black eyes in an infant
* Human bite marks
* Lash marks
* Choke marks around neck
* Circular marks around wrists or ankles (twisting)
* Separated sutures
* Bulging fontanelle
* Unexplained unconsciousness in infant

Signs And Tests:

Physical examination may show other injuries, such as:

* Multiple retinal hemorrhages (bleeding in the back of the eye)
* Internal damage such as bleeding or rupture of an organ from
blunt trauma
* Any fracture in an infant that is too young to walk or crawl
* Evidence of epiphyseal fractures (often multiple) of long bones
or spiral type fractures that result from twisting
* Fractured ribs
* Evidence of skull fracture (multiple fractures of different ages
may be present)
* Subdural hematoma (collection of blood in the brain) without
plausible explanation

Tests that reveal physical injuries include:

* Bone X-ray
* Skull X-ray and/or MRI or CT scan

Treatment:

Physical injuries are treated as appropriate for the specific injury.
Counseling or intervention of some type for the parent(s) is mandatory.
Life-threatening abuse or abuse resulting in permanent damage to the
infant or child may result in incarceration for the perpetrator. In
some cases, the child may be temporarily or permanently removed from
further danger.

Many states require that known or suspected child abuse be reported to
the police, and reporting is automatic. Child protection services are
also notified. The disposition of the child will be determined by the
severity of the abuse, the likelihood of recurrence, and other factors.
Decisions regarding placing the child with an outside caregiver or
returning the child to the home usually are made by the appropriate
government agency through the court system. The structure of these
agencies varies from state to state...."

You seem to want to confine the disease of child abuse to only the
perp. Why is that douggieboy? You a perp?

Just for you I'll repeat the title: "Disease - Battered child syndrome"

And isn't it interesting 0:- that an organization that is heavily
invested in tracking, studying, and dissemination information child
abuse is called, "Centers for Disease Control?"

Then there's the World Health Organization.

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_p...ce/neglect/en/

" Burden of Disease

The burden of disease due to child abuse and neglect is made up of
deaths, disabilities and illness arising immediately from acts of child
maltreatment, plus a much larger burden of disease associated with
psychiatric and physical disorders that appear to be causally related
to the abuse but which onset often many years after the abuse occurred.
However, owing to the taboos which exist in most societies around
recognising, disclosing, reporting and recording child maltreatment,
both these immediate and delayed health effects are particularly
difficult to measure accurately."


And what does it matter that I'm the only person you've heard of, or in
this group, that considers child abuse a disease? I consider it, at the
very least, a social disease, and I consider it a mental illness. Any
creature that harms it's young and kills them is not a fit member of
society and introduce a toxic element to society by injuring their
child and later "injecting" that child into the public arena.

Child abuse has many of the typical characteristics of a disease, and
in fact in the first citation is examined and considered from the
perspectives of both Dx and Tx.

Child abuse is a crime.

Of course it is. That it is a disease does not preclude it being also a
crime.

It is not a disease. It is a crime.

It is both.

Chemical addiction is a disease. It is not a crime.

The act of taking many chemicals, and all that impair in certain
circumstances, like operating "heavy machinery," is a crime. What
planet are you on?

Wrongful possession of controlled substances is a crime. It is not a
disease.

The point, Douggie, that you are now doing your weasel best to get
others to forget, and possibly yourself as well, is that I said child
abuse can be present as both a crime and a disease, and even in one
individual. You have ignored that nicely, but it's still true.

Just as wrong possession is a crime and some who wrongfully possess
(those that take the substance) also have the disease of chemical
dependency.

And that is is a crime does not preclude it being also a disease.

Child abuse is a crime. That it is a crime does not make it a disease.

No, and that is a lying weasel. I said, it "does not precule it being
also a disease." Why do you do this obvious bumbling? Are you losing
your mind? Aren't you too young for Alzheimer's?

Child abuse is not a disease because it does not meet the criteria of bei=
ng
a disease.

Sorry. It does and others with the authority you asked for are quoted
above, and cited.

Child abuse is not a condition.

I beg your pardon? If I asked what condition a child is in that has
been abused and someone answers me, "that child is only slightly
injured, the other in grave condition and may die," you find it
convenient to claim child abuse is not a "condition?"

It is a behavior.

No, as I pointed out, and I've provided citations by authority, and
there were certainly many more than the few I pointed out, it is both a
behavior and and outcome. Child abuse includes both victim and perp,
Doug, and how you, who claim to be a social worker, miss that is
totally beyond me. Your desire to further your propaganda and your
emotionally driven hate campaign are becoming enterly too apparent, is
that not so?

That it is
not a disease does not preclude the behavior from being a crime. Dependi=
ng
on its severity, the behavior or lack of behavior is a misdemeanor or a
felony.

And the behavior being a crime does not preclude it being an act that
is symptomatic of a social disease, and of a diseased mind as well. And
it's experience to the victim meets all the criteria of a disease
victim experience.

Read what a disease is. If an abuser does injury to a child the abuser
is the disease that injured, both by acts, and by his or her very
existence, just like many diseases proceed.

Check you thinking, Kane. And, please, if you have any authority charged
with defining disease calling child abuse a disease, please cite it.

Check my thinking?

Is that how you wish to cover up your own vast spewings if flawed
thinking and conclusions you put forth?

And I cited them. And I've pointed out the logic of viewing child abuse
as a disease.

And I'll point out one more thing, just especially for you. 0:-

The best treatment for child abuse, just like chemical dependency is a
similar regimen. Treat child abuse as a disease (what it is) and you
can make progress against it.

More thinking error on your part, or a deliberate attempt again to
manipulate and mislead the reader into the simplistic either/or trap of
error in judgement.

LOL!

Why do you laugh at something so very serious? Because you are
unwilling to face it and have to dodge even your own thoughts?

Not at all.

Sorry, it appears very much as though you do exactly as I point
out...or you are monumentally stupid and ignorant.

Child abuse does not meet the criteria of being a
disease. It fails to meet two of the components. Do you know which ones?

Why play guessing games?

And name them and I'll show you were they are met by definition and
fact.

To come out of the blue and attempt to claim that child abuse is a disease
is manipulative. It is not accurate.

No, it is not the least manipulative. I make NO attempt to hide
anything. I do not deviate and dodge and avoid and attempt to confuse
the reader with sophistries and diversions.

A disease is condition.

Child abuse is a condition. Ask the child and the doctor that examines.


Ask the CDC. Ask the WHO.

A crime is a behavior (or lack of a required one).


And you seriously believe that it being, as you claim, that child abuse
is only a behavior and not a condition. Hmmm...interesting thinking
processes. Please, see a gerantologist.

I doubt that outside of the two previously mentioned, even the most
ardent opponents of CPS here would miss your little ploy above, and not
appreciate that someone as intelligent as you (hence it would be
deliberate, not an accident) would insult their intelligence so
cavalierly.

LOL! You may want to look up the defination of a disease. Most, if not
all, of the readers here know that child abuse is decidedly not a disease.

No, they know no such thing. Most folks haven't given that much thought
until you and I opened up this conversation on it. That is far more
likely, Douggieboy.

And when the go to look at my citations they will see you are the
perverbial stuffed christmas goose.

I was not telling them something they don't know.

Yes, you were and you still are trying to tell them something they
don't know, and they don't know it because it's not true. Nevertheless
you have some investment in classifying child abuse as a crime only.

That's very dangerous for someone in your line of work.

Yes, there is crime that is a disease that when acted out produces
results that are so injurious that they must be prosecuted in criminal
court. That nether removes the fact it's a disease, nor does it stop
the court from sentencing the actors to rehabilitation services, as YOU
yourself once pointed out in one of our usual exchanges on this
subject.

Nope. Child abuse decidedly does not lay limpant as a disease and then
suddenly surface as a criminal behavior. There is no such thing as a lat=
ent
child abuse disease.

Yes there is. People regularly, for instance, use Corporal Punishment
to "discipline" their children...to try and control them. It may never
rise to the level of abuse. And then again I may. And does, all too
often.

It was a latent condition prior to rising to the level of abuse.

Child abuse does not exist unless a child is abused.

I beg your pardon? What nonsense is THIS. Suddenly you are building my
case for me?

Of course it doesn't it "exists" from the perspective of those not yet
subjected to it.

Are you willing to say battered spouse syndrom doesn't exist unless a
spouse is battered?


Child abuse is an
illegal behavior that occurs in various levels of severity, and are
prosecuted in criminal court as either misdemeanors or felonies based upon
the level of severity.

You may chant and mumble the same words over and over again, but it
changes nothing. Of course it's illegal. That does not keep it from
being a disease. Just as inebriation is a crime, it comes from people
often with a disease. Just as you claimed for chemical dependency
earlier in this post.

Your position that child abuse is a disease whose symptoms are at first
latent is absurd. What are the symptoms of this latent disease before it=
is
"acted out?"

R R R ...well first of all "latent disease" does not have "symptoms."
Those exist only in those infected or affected.

But like a disease it has precursor characteristics. Vectors, hosts,
incubation periods, and similar disease characteristics.

Poverty, lack of education, crime, mental illness, being a victim
before victimizing others, are all characteristics that mark child
abuse and it's likelihood. Or would you care to argue with the
authorities on that one?

For instance, someone with a chemical dependency disease is known to
abuse or neglect more likely and more often than those without such a
condition.

More neglect happens in empoverished populations.

LOL! Your theory is halarious. But it is not held by those who define
disease or those who draw up criminal statutes.

By now you've read the citations. Still laughing?

Child abuse is not a disease.
Wrong

Child abuse is a crime.
Right

Pollywannacracker?

Usually nine year olds pass harmlessly through the magical thinking
stage of human mental development. What happened to you?=20

0:-

The difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't
know, and I couldn't care less.

If I seem to give a damn, please tell me. I would hate
to be giving the wrong impression.

He is YOUR god, they are YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell.

Nostalgia? Revenge is a form of Nostalgia right?

We have more to fear from the bungling of the
incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.

That's it, no more free will.

Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the
mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium &
Strontium 90).

Ever feel like nothing could go right for you and that
you are never going to get out of a slump? The need for
compainionship is strong enough to overrule any other
emotion or any thought. Life seems much blacker without
someone to share it with. Life continues regardless,
and I abide.

Due to circumstances within my control, tomorrow will
be cancelled.

Due to recent cutbacks and until further notice, the
light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.

The shortest distance between two points is under
construction.

Whenever you eliminate the inedible, whatever remains,
however unpalatable, must be food.

Stop using Jesus as an excuse for being a
narrow-minded, bigoted asshole.

I've given up the search for reality; now I'm just
looking for a good fantasy.

Get your mind out of the gutter - it's blocking my
view.

I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't
it.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the world.

When you check out, if spent shell casings aren't
littered around your feet, you didn't check out right.

If you can't say anything nice, then at least have the
decency to be vague.

Woman and God are intoxicants enough without the hard
stuff. Of Course, Woman and God are usually the reason
we resort to the hard stuff.

Booze is the answer. I don't remember the question.

Credit, is the only enduring testimonial to man's
confidence in man.

If you're one in a million, there are six thousand
people exactly like you.

The difference between a lawyer and a rooster is that
the rooster gets up in the morning and clucks defiance.

"Obstruction of justice? No sir, we prefer to think of
it 'avoiding complications'."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Definitions
Programmer n. - An ingenious device that turns caffeine
into code.

Just Friends phrase - I don't just want you to mourn
the loss; I want to remind you of it every day. I want
you to suffer. I want you to envy. I want you to die
slowly, a bit at a time. And I want you to smile and
thank me for it.

wrote in message
oups.com...


Doug wrote:

.....yet another epistle ripe with thinking errors, and
misinformation.
I'll take just one as an example, as the others, if
anyone cares to
read and think, are simply hairsplitting bull**** as
usual:

......snip..........

Child abuse decidedly is NOT a disease. It does not
meet the criteria of a
disease. Your shoot from the hip argumentation fails
to consider the
criteria of a disease. It is a severe thinking error
to entertain the
notion that child abuse has the components necessary
to be classified as a
disease. Is it diagnoised? Does it have a
biophysical element?

A disease is a condition.

A crime is a behavior.

Sorry, one can have both in the same individual.

And sorry also but disease by definition, as you claim
below is
anything but....

The defination of a disease is exacting.

No it isn't. Damn near every field has differing
definitions of
"disease."

And where do you get the idea that having a "behavior"
precludes having
a "disease?" In fact often a "behavior" is a clue to
what disease a
person suffers from.

Both the victim and the child can suffer from the
disease of child
abuse, as well of the behavior of child abuse. You are
full of your
usual bluff, known in some circles as BULL****!

Yer out of yer everlovin' mind, douggieboy, and now you
are even lying
to yourself.

# an impairment of health or a condition of abnormal
functioning
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# A disease is any abnormal condition of the body or
mind that causes
discomfort, dysfunction, or distress to the person
affected or those in
contact with the person. Sometimes the term is used
broadly to include
injuries, disabilities, syndromes, symptoms, deviant
behaviors, and
atypical variations of structure and function, while in
other contexts
these may be considered distinguishable categories.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease

# Any malfunctioning of host cells and tissues that
results from
continuous irritation by a pathogenic agent or
environmental factor and
leads to development of symptoms.
www.ento.okstate.edu/Pddl/glossary.htm

# Prevalence
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpb/lcdc/publ...jhs/cjhs4.html

# one of the 'divine messengers' (deva-dúta, qv).
www.budsas.org/ebud/bud-dict/dic3_d.htm

# Any condition which is results in a fall in the level
of health of an
animal. For a disease condition to exist, there must be
three
predisposing factors, 1. A disease agent, 2. A host for
the disease
agent, 3. The environmental conditions which make the
host susceptible
to the disease agent. Most of the time, animals (the
host) live in a
state of equilibrium with the pathogens (the disease
agent) in their
environment. A change in environment can stress the
fish, and weaken
it's defences against the pathogen, giving it the
opportunity to
multiply and result in a disease
www.aquatext.com/list-d.htm

# Process injurious to health and/or longevity
http://www.gastric-bypass-treatment....-glossary.aspx

# An abnormal condition of body structure and function,
usually
indicated by symptoms.
http://www.sdnhm.org/exhibits/epidem.../glossary.html

# Formally speaking, a disease is the condition in
which the
functioning of the body or a part of the body is
interfered with or
damaged. In a person with an infectious disease, the
infectious agent
that has entered the body causes it to function
abnormally in some way
or ways. The type of abnormal functioning that occurs
is the disease.
Usually the body will show some signs and symptoms of
the problems it
is having with functioning. Disease should not be
confused with
infection.
www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/mnpages/glossary.htm

# A harmful deviation from the normal functioning of
physiological and
biochemical processes caused by plant pathogens (fungi,
viruses,
bacteria, parasites).
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/inst/rese...ice/Dterms.htm

# Any disturbance of a plant that interferes with its
normal structure,
function, or economic value.
www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/glossary.html

# A deleterious change in the body's condition in
response to
destabilizing factors, such as nutrition, chemicals, or
biological
agents.
highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0070294267/student_view0/glossary_a-d.html

# stress condition produced by the effects of a
pathogen on a
susceptible host.
scarab.msu.montana.edu/historybug/glossary.htm

# an abnormal bodily condition of a living plant or
animal that
interferes with functioning and can usually be
recognized by signs,
symptoms, and illness.
whyfiles.larc.nasa.gov/text/kids/Problem_Board/problems/biosphere/glossary.html

# Illness or sickness often characterized by typical
patient problems
(symptoms) and physical findings (signs).
www.arabinfo.org/montogomery/Terms.htm

# An abnormal condition of a plant in which its
physiology, morphology,
and/or development is altered under the continuous
influence of a
pathogen. (3)
ppathw3.cals.cornell.edu/glossary/Defs_D.htm

# A condition of an organism that impairs normal
physiological
function. Also see Infectious Disease.
fightaidsathome.scripps.edu/glossary.html

# A combination of lung diseases including emphysema
and bronchitis.
Emphysema is a chronic disease in which the small air
sacs in the lungs
(the alveoli) become damaged, resulting in difficulty
breathing.
Bronchitis is an inflammation of the bronchial tubes
(which connect the
trachea to the lungs), characterized by blockage of
airflow in and out
of the lungs.
www.ahrq.gov/data/hcup/factbk1/fctbk5.htm

# Any abnormality of bodily structure or function,
other than those
arising directly from injury.
http://www.canadapharma.org/Patient_...lossary_Terms/

# Literally, dis-ease, lack of ease; pathological
condition that
presents a group of symptoms peculiar to it and which
establishes the
condition as an abnormal entity different from other
normal or
pathological body states. discontinuous effect: See SN
intermittent
effect
www.sis.nlm.nih.gov/Glossary/d.html

# Lack of ease; deviation from normal.
http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/opath/...ctionaryD.html

# Illness, sickness. An interruption, cessation, or
disorder of body
functions, systems, or organs. Top of page
http://www.rationaltherapeutics.com/...e/glossary.htm

# A condition of the body in which there is incorrect
function due to
heredity, infection, diet, or environment.
http://www.mdk12.org/mspp/vsc/scienc...glossary.shtml

# Disease can be defined in three ways:
http://www.med.uwo.ca/ecosystemhealt...n/glossary.htm

# Periodontal disease is the deterioration of the
supporting structures
of the teeth.
www.jasonforddds.com/faqs.html

# a state in which a function or part of the body is no
longer in a
healthy condition
lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/allergybegone/glossary.html

# a medically definable process, in terms of
pathophysiology and
pathology. Illness is what the patient experiences.
www.therubins.com/geninfo/Definit.htm




Neither the AMA or the APA
considers the behavior of child abuse to be a
disease. In fact, no one to
my knowledge other than yourself has so classified
it. Do you have any
references....a single authority that makes such an
absurd claim?

As usual, trying to blow smoke up the readers ass:

http://www.henryfordhealth.org/12640.cfm

"
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Disease - Battered child syndrome

Fracture types (1)
Fracture types (1)

Definition:

Battered child syndrome refers to children who have
undergone physical
abuse that has left them with both physical and
psychological trauma.

Alternative Names:

Non-accidental trauma (NAT); Child abuse

Causes And Risk:

Physical abuse of children occurs in every
socioeconomic class, though
it is most common amongst the poor due to increased
stress and greater
lack of control over stressful circumstances.

Abuse tends to occur at moments of greatest stress,
when the
perpetrator strikes out in anger at the child. Many
perpetrators were
themselves abused as children and they often don´t
realize that abuse
is not appropriate discipline. Abusers also frequently
have poor
impulse control, which prevents them from thinking
through the
consequences of their actions.

Because of the relative size and strength difference
between adults and
children, the abused child can be severely injured or
killed
unintentionally. Shaking an infant, for example, can
cause bleeding
over the brain (subdural hematoma) which can cause
permanent brain
damage or death (shaken baby syndrome).

The incidence of child abuse is remarkably high. The
total abuse rate
is 25.2 per 1,000 children with physical abuse counting
for 5.7 per
1000, sexual abuse 2.5 per 1,000, emotional abuse 3.4
per 1000 and
neglect accounting for the vast majority, 15.9 per
1,000 children. Of
course, these categories often overlap, with sexual and
physical abuse
often occurring together and with sexual abuse,
physical abuse or
neglect seldom occurring without emotional abuse.

These numbers may also be underestimates due to failure
to diagnose or
report this problem. Risk factors include poverty, lack
of education,
single parenthood, alcoholism or other drug addictions
and a host of
other factors.

Prevention:

Recognition of pending abuse can help prevent actual
abuse. Warning
signs include the following:

* Abuse history (such as previous abuse of the
child or the
child´s siblings)
* Lack of apparent parental love or concern
* Failure to maintain the child´s proper hygiene or
care
* Parental alcohol or drug problems
* Parental emotional problems or mental illness
* History of abuse in the parent´s childhood
* High stress factors in the family life

Intervention with counseling may prevent abuse when any
of these
factors are present. Watchful guidance and support from
the extended
family, friends, clergy, or other supportive persons or
groups may
prevent abuse or may allow early intervention in cases
of abuse.

Symptoms:

* Appearance at an emergency room with an injured
child and one or
both of the following:
o An improbable explanation of the cause of
the injury
o An injury that is not recent
* Bruise marks shaped like hands, fingers, or
objects (such as a
belt)
* Specific patterns of scalding (seen when a
conscious child is
immersed in hot water)
* Burns from an electric stove, radiator, heater or
other hot
objects on the child´s hands or buttocks
* Cigarette burns on exposed areas or the genitals
* Black eyes in an infant
* Human bite marks
* Lash marks
* Choke marks around neck
* Circular marks around wrists or ankles (twisting)
* Separated sutures
* Bulging fontanelle
* Unexplained unconsciousness in infant

Signs And Tests:

Physical examination may show other injuries, such as:

* Multiple retinal hemorrhages (bleeding in the
back of the eye)
* Internal damage such as bleeding or rupture of an
organ from
blunt trauma
* Any fracture in an infant that is too young to
walk or crawl
* Evidence of epiphyseal fractures (often multiple)
of long bones
or spiral type fractures that result from twisting
* Fractured ribs
* Evidence of skull fracture (multiple fractures of
different ages
may be present)
* Subdural hematoma (collection of blood in the
brain) without
plausible explanation

Tests that reveal physical injuries include:

* Bone X-ray
* Skull X-ray and/or MRI or CT scan

Treatment:

Physical injuries are treated as appropriate for the
specific injury.
Counseling or intervention of some type for the
parent(s) is mandatory.
Life-threatening abuse or abuse resulting in permanent
damage to the
infant or child may result in incarceration for the
perpetrator. In
some cases, the child may be temporarily or permanently
removed from
further danger.

Many states require that known or suspected child abuse
be reported to
the police, and reporting is automatic. Child
protection services are
also notified. The disposition of the child will be
determined by the
severity of the abuse, the likelihood of recurrence,
and other factors.
Decisions regarding placing the child with an outside
caregiver or
returning the child to the home usually are made by the
appropriate
government agency through the court system. The
structure of these
agencies varies from state to state...."

You seem to want to confine the disease of child abuse
to only the
perp. Why is that douggieboy? You a perp?

Just for you I'll repeat the title: "Disease - Battered
child syndrome"

And isn't it interesting 0:- that an organization
that is heavily
invested in tracking, studying, and dissemination
information child
abuse is called, "Centers for Disease Control?"

Then there's the World Health Organization.

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_p...ce/neglect/en/

" Burden of Disease

The burden of disease due to child abuse and neglect is
made up of
deaths, disabilities and illness arising immediately
from acts of child
maltreatment, plus a much larger burden of disease
associated with
psychiatric and physical disorders that appear to be
causally related
to the abuse but which onset often many years after the
abuse occurred.
However, owing to the taboos which exist in most
societies around
recognising, disclosing, reporting and recording child
maltreatment,
both these immediate and delayed health effects are
particularly
difficult to measure accurately."


And what does it matter that I'm the only person you've
heard of, or in
this group, that considers child abuse a disease? I
consider it, at the
very least, a social disease, and I consider it a
mental illness. Any
creature that harms it's young and kills them is not a
fit member of
society and introduce a toxic element to society by
injuring their
child and later "injecting" that child into the public
arena.

Child abuse has many of the typical characteristics of
a disease, and
in fact in the first citation is examined and
considered from the
perspectives of both Dx and Tx.

Child abuse is a crime.

Of course it is. That it is a disease does not
preclude it being also a
crime.

It is not a disease. It is a crime.

It is both.

Chemical addiction is a disease. It is not a crime.

The act of taking many chemicals, and all that impair
in certain
circumstances, like operating "heavy machinery," is a
crime. What
planet are you on?

Wrongful possession of controlled substances is a
crime. It is not a
disease.

The point, Douggie, that you are now doing your weasel
best to get
others to forget, and possibly yourself as well, is
that I said child
abuse can be present as both a crime and a disease, and
even in one
individual. You have ignored that nicely, but it's
still true.

Just as wrong possession is a crime and some who
wrongfully possess
(those that take the substance) also have the disease
of chemical
dependency.

And that is is a crime does not preclude it being
also a disease.

Child abuse is a crime. That it is a crime does not
make it a disease.

No, and that is a lying weasel. I said, it "does not
precule it being
also a disease." Why do you do this obvious bumbling?
Are you losing
your mind? Aren't you too young for Alzheimer's?

Child abuse is not a disease because it does not meet
the criteria of being
a disease.

Sorry. It does and others with the authority you asked
for are quoted
above, and cited.

Child abuse is not a condition.

I beg your pardon? If I asked what condition a child is
in that has
been abused and someone answers me, "that child is only
slightly
injured, the other in grave condition and may die," you
find it
convenient to claim child abuse is not a "condition?"

It is a behavior.

No, as I pointed out, and I've provided citations by
authority, and
there were certainly many more than the few I pointed
out, it is both a
behavior and and outcome. Child abuse includes both
victim and perp,
Doug, and how you, who claim to be a social worker,
miss that is
totally beyond me. Your desire to further your
propaganda and your
emotionally driven hate campaign are becoming enterly
too apparent, is
that not so?

That it is
not a disease does not preclude the behavior from
being a crime. Depending
on its severity, the behavior or lack of behavior is
a misdemeanor or a
felony.

And the behavior being a crime does not preclude it
being an act that
is symptomatic of a social disease, and of a diseased
mind as well. And
it's experience to the victim meets all the criteria of
a disease
victim experience.

Read what a disease is. If an abuser does injury to a
child the abuser
is the disease that injured, both by acts, and by his
or her very
existence, just like many diseases proceed.

Check you thinking, Kane. And, please, if you have
any authority charged
with defining disease calling child abuse a disease,
please cite it.

Check my thinking?

Is that how you wish to cover up your own vast spewings
if flawed
thinking and conclusions you put forth?

And I cited them. And I've pointed out the logic of
viewing child abuse
as a disease.

And I'll point out one more thing, just especially for
you. 0:-

The best treatment for child abuse, just like chemical
dependency is a
similar regimen. Treat child abuse as a disease (what
it is) and you
can make progress against it.

More thinking error on your part, or a deliberate
attempt again to
manipulate and mislead the reader into the
simplistic either/or trap of
error in judgement.

LOL!

Why do you laugh at something so very serious? Because
you are
unwilling to face it and have to dodge even your own
thoughts?

Not at all.

Sorry, it appears very much as though you do exactly as
I point
out...or you are monumentally stupid and ignorant.

Child abuse does not meet the criteria of being a
disease. It fails to meet two of the components. Do
you know which ones?

Why play guessing games?

And name them and I'll show you were they are met by
definition and
fact.

To come out of the blue and attempt to claim that
child abuse is a disease
is manipulative. It is not accurate.

No, it is not the least manipulative. I make NO attempt
to hide
anything. I do not deviate and dodge and avoid and
attempt to confuse
the reader with sophistries and diversions.

A disease is condition.

Child abuse is a condition. Ask the child and the
doctor that examines.


Ask the CDC. Ask the WHO.

A crime is a behavior (or lack of a required one).


And you seriously believe that it being, as you claim,
that child abuse
is only a behavior and not a condition.
Hmmm...interesting thinking
processes. Please, see a gerantologist.

I doubt that outside of the two previously
mentioned, even the most
ardent opponents of CPS here would miss your little
ploy above, and not
appreciate that someone as intelligent as you
(hence it would be
deliberate, not an accident) would insult their
intelligence so
cavalierly.

LOL! You may want to look up the defination of a
disease. Most, if not
all, of the readers here know that child abuse is
decidedly not a disease.

No, they know no such thing. Most folks haven't given
that much thought
until you and I opened up this conversation on it. That
is far more
likely, Douggieboy.

And when the go to look at my citations they will see
you are the
perverbial stuffed christmas goose.

I was not telling them something they don't know.

Yes, you were and you still are trying to tell them
something they
don't know, and they don't know it because it's not
true. Nevertheless
you have some investment in classifying child abuse as
a crime only.

That's very dangerous for someone in your line of work.

Yes, there is crime that is a disease that when
acted out produces
results that are so injurious that they must be
prosecuted in criminal
court. That nether removes the fact it's a disease,
nor does it stop
the court from sentencing the actors to
rehabilitation services, as YOU
yourself once pointed out in one of our usual
exchanges on this
subject.

Nope. Child abuse decidedly does not lay limpant as
a disease and then
suddenly surface as a criminal behavior. There is no
such thing as a latent
child abuse disease.

Yes there is. People regularly, for instance, use
Corporal Punishment
to "discipline" their children...to try and control
them. It may never
rise to the level of abuse. And then again I may. And
does, all too
often.

It was a latent condition prior to rising to the level
of abuse.

Child abuse does not exist unless a child is abused.

I beg your pardon? What nonsense is THIS. Suddenly you
are building my
case for me?

Of course it doesn't it "exists" from the perspective
of those not yet
subjected to it.

Are you willing to say battered spouse syndrom doesn't
exist unless a
spouse is battered?


Child abuse is an
illegal behavior that occurs in various levels of
severity, and are
prosecuted in criminal court as either misdemeanors
or felonies based upon
the level of severity.

You may chant and mumble the same words over and over
again, but it
changes nothing. Of course it's illegal. That does not
keep it from
being a disease. Just as inebriation is a crime, it
comes from people
often with a disease. Just as you claimed for chemical
dependency
earlier in this post.

Your position that child abuse is a disease whose
symptoms are at first
latent is absurd. What are the symptoms of this
latent disease before it is
"acted out?"

R R R ...well first of all "latent disease" does not
have "symptoms."
Those exist only in those infected or affected.

But like a disease it has precursor characteristics.
Vectors, hosts,
incubation periods, and similar disease
characteristics.

Poverty, lack of education, crime, mental illness,
being a victim
before victimizing others, are all characteristics that
mark child
abuse and it's likelihood. Or would you care to argue
with the
authorities on that one?

For instance, someone with a chemical dependency
disease is known to
abuse or neglect more likely and more often than those
without such a
condition.

More neglect happens in empoverished populations.

LOL! Your theory is halarious. But it is not held
by those who define
disease or those who draw up criminal statutes.

By now you've read the citations. Still laughing?

Child abuse is not a disease.
Wrong

Child abuse is a crime.
Right

Pollywannacracker?

Usually nine year olds pass harmlessly through the
magical thinking
stage of human mental development. What happened to
you?

0:-

Diseases have characteristics. And respond to conditions to become
active in the victim.

Child abuse has them as well, both.
"
Even today, child abuse is highly correlated with income, with children
in homes with incomes below $15,000 being 22 times more likely to be
physically abused, 18 times more likely to be sexually abused, and 56
times more likely to be neglected than those with family incomes
exceeding $30,000.
"
http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/eln07_evolution.html

Kane writes:

The act of taking many chemicals, and all that impair in certain
circumstances, like operating "heavy machinery," is a crime. What
planet are you on?

Hi, Kane,

Yep, operating a vehicle or other machinery under the influence of any drug
is a crime regardless of whether the perp has the disease of chemical
dependency or not. The crime you speak of has nothing to do with the
disease of addiction, but of operating a car or other vehicle under the
influence.

Wrongful possession of controlled substances is a crime. It is not a
disease.

The point, Douggie, that you are now doing your weasel best to get
others to forget, and possibly yourself as well, is that I said child
abuse can be present as both a crime and a disease, and even in one
individual. You have ignored that nicely, but it's still true.

Someone with no disease of addiction can commit the crime of being in
possession of an illegal substance. Just like all convicted child abusers,
who do not have any "disease," were prosecuted for the crime of child abuse.
One can have both the disease of addiction and violate the criminal statute
of possession of a legal substance, but the disease does not invoke the law.
Since there is no disease of child abuse, one only law when one commits the
crime of child abuse.

And the behavior being a crime does not preclude it being an act that
is symptomatic of a social disease, and of a diseased mind as well.

While criminal statutes on child abuse may be violated by people who have
the flu, diabetes or have a mental illness does not make the child abuse
symptomatic of those diseases. And committing the crime of child abuse
certainly does not mean that there is a dorment child abuse "disease"
responsible for the action.

And it's experience to the victim meets all the criteria of a disease
victim experience.

The victim may well experience physical trauma, emotional damage that
reaches the level of mental illness and display any number of symptoms of
medical or psychological injury. That the victim has a disorder does not
make the crime that caused it a disease.

The victim of the crime of child abuse is suffering from a condition or
multitude of them, just as an adult victim of a gunshot received during a
robbery. That does not make robbery or shooting people a disease.

Child abuse is not a disease. The victims of child abuse may well suffer a
disease as the result of the trauma inflicted by the criminal.

Nope. Child abuse decidedly does not lay limpant as a disease and then
suddenly surface as a criminal behavior. There is no such thing as a
latent
child abuse disease.

Yes there is. People regularly, for instance, use Corporal Punishment
to "discipline" their children...to try and control them. It may never
rise to the level of abuse. And then again I may. And does, all too
often.

Wow! Thank you, I've got another keeper quote.

So, people who use corporal punishment have the disease the child abuse that
may or may not rise to the level of child abuse? Do all those who use
corporal punishment have the disease of child abuse or are only those whose
punishment violates the law have the disease of child abuse? Should CPS
open a case against all parents who use corporal punishment so they can
treat the disease of child abuse?

It was a latent condition prior to rising to the level of abuse.

So spankers are latent child abusers?

But, no, in your example, no latent disorder plays a role. In the first
incidence, you have corporal punishment. In the second, child abuse. The
"disease" of child abuse does not underlie both.

Mostly, because there is no such thing as the disease of child abuse, latent
or otherwise.