Pump as good as real thing?

Can anyone tell us if using a breast pump stimulates the same as direct
feeding?
We have an 9 day old fantastic placid little girl. My wife has always had
sensitive nipples.....they have always been a no go area for me. Any
stimulation leads to shooting pains, always has. She cant even have some
materials against them
So now its down to breast feed. You can imagine the soreness she gets when
the little ankle bighter gets on...and sucks, but she wants to persevere as
we know how good it is for baby and mum. I said its her choice. We even went
and got some SMA..... but she felt guilty and we didnt open it. Midwife has
been next to useles. At hospital they said just leave baby on for as long as
she wants.....i went in and she had been connected for 2 hours. Even i knew
that was too long and she was using my wife as a dummy. So now she has
cracked sore nipples as well as the sensitivity issue - but she soldiers on.
Wegot her a breast pump and we have used it a few times, (she always feeds
the bottle, before anyone gets excited), and now we wonder if this is going
to reduce milk flow. Our little darling spent yesterday evening/night
screaming and feeding evry hour/2 hours. A long night for all. Pumping takes
ages as well. Its Avent. We didnt have time to get any last night so each
feed was agony for her.
We are unsure what to do. Complement? Pump? Formula?
Any suggestions as to whats a good idea would help.


Thanks

Mal, Nika and......Rebecca!

Hi --

It sounds as though at least part of the problem is that the baby isn't
latching correctly. The baby is trying to suck as though mom is a
straw. That's a common mistake that newborns make, and mom must NOT let
her suck that way. She's got to suck with her mouth WIDE open.

I'd recommend that you find a good lactation consultant PROMPTLY. The
best ones are Internationally Board Certified (IBCLC). You can also see
if there's a chapter of La Leche League in your area. They may be able
to direct you to a good lactation consultant.

Keep a count of those wet and poopy diapers! Poor latches are also
inefficient.

Congratulations on your new arrival!
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

I will second getting a good LC. I'd also suggest that if you're trying to
maintain supply by pumping, get a good double pump, just for the sake of
efficency. I also found that the lactina was much less hard on my nipples
than the Isis was early on.

Having said that, if you can get the baby to nurse, do so-it's much easier
to maintain over time (and this is from someone who has been EPing for
almost 11 months).

--
Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)

"Beth Kevles" wrote and I snipped:

It sounds as though at least part of the problem is that the baby isn't
latching correctly. The baby is trying to suck as though mom is a
straw. That's a common mistake that newborns make, and mom must NOT let
her suck that way. She's got to suck with her mouth WIDE open.

I agree. Check out the latching videos in the middle column of this site:

http://www.breastfeeding.com/helpme/helpme_video.html

It's great to "see" how to latch rather than just reading a description.

HTH,
-Patty, mom of 1+2

Mal wrote:
Can anyone tell us if using a breast pump stimulates the same as direct
feeding?

No, it does not. Some people do manage to pump exclusively, but it is
very, very difficult. However, pumping does help stimulate supply.


We have an 9 day old fantastic placid little girl. My wife has always had
sensitive nipples.....they have always been a no go area for me. Any
stimulation leads to shooting pains, always has. She cant even have some
materials against them
So now its down to breast feed. You can imagine the soreness she gets when
the little ankle bighter gets on...and sucks, but she wants to persevere as
we know how good it is for baby and mum. I said its her choice.

She should be proud of herself for trying so hard when it is obviously
very difficult for her. You are being very supportive as well!

We even went
and got some SMA..... but she felt guilty and we didnt open it. Midwife has
been next to useles. At hospital they said just leave baby on for as long as
she wants.....i went in and she had been connected for 2 hours. Even i knew
that was too long and she was using my wife as a dummy.

That's not necessarily wrong . . . some newborns are like that. And
actually if you let baby nurse as much as she wants to begin with, the
soreness should subside faster, IF the latch is correct! But if your
wife can't stand the constant sucking, it is certainly okay to take a
break when baby has stopped actively sucking and swallowing frequently.


So now she has
cracked sore nipples as well as the sensitivity issue - but she soldiers on.

Is she using lanolin on her nipples? How about Soothies? Those are a
sort of gel filled disks you can buy at the drugstore that are soothing
to sore nipples.

Wegot her a breast pump and we have used it a few times, (she always feeds
the bottle, before anyone gets excited),

The main problem with using the bottle at this point is that the baby
may get confused and try to suck on your woife as though she were a
bottle, which will make the problem worse! If you want to feed pumped
milk, it might be a better plan to use a syringe or a finger feeder.

and now we wonder if this is going
to reduce milk flow.

If you give a bottle instead of nursing, that's one less feeding your
body thinks it needs to produce. So every time you don't nurse, you
must pump to make up for it. And as I've said above, that won't work
as well as direct nursing to stimulate supply.

Our little darling spent yesterday evening/night
screaming and feeding evry hour/2 hours.

The feeding every two hours is absolutely normal. The screaming, maybe
not. Is she gassy? Does she ever seem satisfied? Does she fall
asleep at the breast? Does she have milk running out of her mouth? Is
she having wet diapers?

A long night for all. Pumping takes
ages as well. Its Avent.

An Isis? That's a good pump for occasional use. If you end up pumping
exclusively you are probably going to want an electric one.

We didnt have time to get any last night so each
feed was agony for her.
We are unsure what to do. Complement? Pump? Formula?
Any suggestions as to whats a good idea would help.


Suggestion #1 is to get a lactation consultant involved at once! #2
continue to update us here because there is a lot of experience and
wisdom on this ng. #3 Take it one feeding at a time for now. #4 if
the latch is okay it WILL get better. Pain at the beginning of the
nursing relationship is normal and transitory. Just when you think you
can't take another day, it starts to get better. #5 I've never used
them and some people think they are a bad idea, but others have found
that nipple shields helped temporarily. #6 Unless the baby is LOSING
weight or is showing signs of dehydration, I would NOT give formula if
your wife wants to continue breastfeeding. Even one bottle affects the
baby's intestinal flora and can stimulate allergies. Having said that,
though, if she gives in and opens that can don't let her think that she
has to give up on breastfeeding. But try not to open it!

Good luck!

Leslie

I would have replied earlier, but my newsserver crashed as I was
composing my reply. I have read some of the replies already, and
they are all very good. I will try to limit myself to adding new
info or reiterating the most important points. (Which ones are
NOT important?) :-)

Larry

Mal writes:
: Can anyone tell us if using a breast pump stimulates the same as direct
: feeding?

Yes, we can, and no it isn't. Still it is better than doing nothing.
More info below.

: We have an 9 day old fantastic placid little girl. My wife has always had
: sensitive nipples.....they have always been a no go area for me. Any
: stimulation leads to shooting pains, always has. She cant even have some
: materials against them
: So now its down to breast feed. You can imagine the soreness she gets when
: the little ankle bighter gets on...and sucks, but she wants to persevere as
: we know how good it is for baby and mum. I said its her choice. We even went
: and got some SMA..... but she felt guilty and we didnt open it. Midwife has
: been next to useles. At hospital they said just leave baby on for as long as
: she wants.....i went in and she had been connected for 2 hours. Even i knew
: that was too long and she was using my wife as a dummy. So now she has
: cracked sore nipples as well as the sensitivity issue - but she soldiers on.
: Wegot her a breast pump and we have used it a few times, (she always feeds
: the bottle, before anyone gets excited), and now we wonder if this is going
: to reduce milk flow. Our little darling spent yesterday evening/night
: screaming and feeding evry hour/2 hours. A long night for all. Pumping takes
: ages as well. Its Avent. We didnt have time to get any last night so each
: feed was agony for her.
: We are unsure what to do. Complement? Pump? Formula?
: Any suggestions as to whats a good idea would help.

Lets focus on your questions:

: We are unsure what to do. Complement? Pump? Formula?

and give the reasons WHY as well as what to do...

Formula fed babies are much more likely to have a long list of
health problems, some not so serious, others more serious, than
breastfed babies. The list includes: atopic diseases (asthma,
eczema, food allergies), adult obesity, childhood leukemia, ear
infectioins, diabetes, and ear infections. Some of these (like
the leukemia) are because of the protective properrties of breast
milk, others, like the diabetes are because of the cow's milk
protein contained in most formulas. The bottom line is that a
breastfed infant is 14 times less likely to be hospitalized in
the first couple years of life than a forumla fed infant.

What this means is that breastfeeding is best, and exclusive
breastfeeding is better than combination feeding. Pure and
simple. It also has cognative development benefits (higher IQ),
and mothers who breastfeed are less likely to develop breast
cancer. And the longer the time, the better the protection.

Regarding pumping versus direct nursing. Direct nursing
stimulates milk production much better than pumping. In order
to get and maintain an adequate milk supply by pumping, you
have to spend a long time pumping and do it frequently. Not to
mention the time and effort cleaning a handling pumping equipment.
It is a major PITA.

Every effort should be made to directly and exclusively breastfeed.

That said, how do you do it? First I second the suggestion that
your wife see an IBCLC certified LC. You should also know that the
first 6 to 8 weeks are the most difficult that that long term
breastfeeding becomes measurable easier after that point, and
continues to improve as the baby grows older. Third, many of the
suggestions the others have made on how to make it easier and more
tolerable in the short run are good ideas, too.

Next, the constant nursing is typical for newborns, and it is how
a baby gets his mothers milk supply to increase at this crtical time.
Your wife should encourage the baby to nurse as much as possible in
the first weeks and month. The nursing will taper off as her supply
gets stronger.

Finally, you should avoid giving bottles at this age. This can lead
to nipple confustion, where the baby forgets how to nurse correctly
at the breast, and bottle preference, where the baby demands the
bottle. Both of these can have disasterous consequences for her
supply.

Good luck,
Larry

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:12:34 GMT, "Mal"
wrote:

Two things...

1. Is she even able to *comfortably* pump?

2. I pumped exclusively for almost a year.

Yes she can but it takes a while....ie feed for 20 mins,ish,
change/cuddle/wash/etc etc etc for 1 hour, pump for 1 hour means 1 hour for
relaxation.
I do my bit but shes constantly tired poor girl!!

Mal


"bellyboing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:12:34 GMT, "Mal"
wrote:

Two things...

1. Is she even able to *comfortably* pump?

2. I pumped exclusively for almost a year.

"Mal" wrote in message
news
Yes she can but it takes a while....ie feed for 20 mins,ish,
change/cuddle/wash/etc etc etc for 1 hour, pump for 1 hour means 1 hour
for
relaxation.
I do my bit but shes constantly tired poor girl!!

Mal


I honestly think that if you're going to EP, or anywhere close to it, you
need a lot of extra help at first-the mother should ONLY be nursing the
baby, pumping, and maybe co-sleeping if you're sleeping at the same time. I
think the reason I was able to get my supply well established with a baby
with a low sucking reflex and with a nurse/pump every 2 hours cycle was
because for the first 6 weeks, I had my parents here, and they handled most
of the other baby care not involving lactation.

Also, according to my LC, you should only pump 10-15 minutes on a side in a
2 hour cycle, and that's also what Medela recommends. The Avent pump isn't
supposed to be used more than once a day, according to it's manual.