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(Illinois) Car-seat law aims to protect children
"silvasurfa" wrote in message
... wrote in message ... Additionally, the driver is now responsible for ensuring that children 8 to 15 are wearing safety belts. There are parts of the world where drivers are responsible for all their passengers of whatever age wearing seat belts. If they aren't buckled up, you don't set the car in motion. that was the rule when I was growing up, that and no kicking the back of the seats. |
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(Illinois) Car-seat law aims to protect children
"Tom Enright" wrote in message om... ==Daye== wrote in message . .. Well, let's assume that you are a very low income worker. You work at McD's making $5.50 an hour. Before taxes, you make about $220 a week. For the situation above, yes, a booster seat could be an expensive investment. Why exactly someone making $5.50 an hour would have children Had the kids then lost their job and had to take a low paid job just to feed themselves? |
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(Illinois) Car-seat law aims to protect children
"dragonlady" wrote in message ... In article , "bobb" wrote: More stupid laws. First, consider how many people had to buy a larger vehicle, perhaps even an SUV, in order to fit three or four car seats. Skipping the rest of your message . . . When my twins were born, we drove a 4 passenger Mazda hatch back. We had to install a third seatbelt in the back seat. (Fortunately, there was room on the same posts as the other seatbelts, so it was safe.) We fit two infant seats and a toddler seat in the back seat, side by side by side. The twin stroller fit (barely, but it fit) in the hatchback. Less than a year later, we had three toddler seats side by side by side in the back seat. We got by with this car until it was stolen (then we bought an old beat up station wagon -- a BIG one, but because we wanted to be able to transport the kids' friends, too, not because we needed one to fit the car seats.) It would have been more comfortable, perhaps, if we'd had a bigger car, but it was entirely possible in a small car. So THIS part of your argument is pure crap. meh -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care Thanks for your observation... but I'm sure others can see the merit of my comment. Cramming a small vehicle such as yours, and particularly a hatch-back, is an invitation for disaster. In event of an accident the strollers, diaper bags, toys and other cargo become flying ojects subject to doing serious injury to passengers and driver, without or without car seats. A crushing accident, say a side impact, makes for another dangereous situation, and a roll-over makes it almost impossible to get the children out of the wrecked vehicle. Police and fireman now carry knives and special sissors to cut the seat restraints free. What you see as nothing but 'crap' deserves more attention, after all, it is your children at risk. I am not suggesting car seats be abandoned, no matter the reason, but I do object to a government mandate that does not allow free choice for those who do not accept the legislative findings, particularly when the government's own studies, as well as others, do not support such legislation. bobb |
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(Illinois) Car-seat law aims to protect children
"bobb" wrote in message ... "dragonlady" wrote in message ... In article , "bobb" wrote: More stupid laws. First, consider how many people had to buy a larger vehicle, perhaps even an SUV, in order to fit three or four car seats. Skipping the rest of your message . . . When my twins were born, we drove a 4 passenger Mazda hatch back. We had to install a third seatbelt in the back seat. (Fortunately, there was room on the same posts as the other seatbelts, so it was safe.) We fit two infant seats and a toddler seat in the back seat, side by side by side. The twin stroller fit (barely, but it fit) in the hatchback. Less than a year later, we had three toddler seats side by side by side in the back seat. We got by with this car until it was stolen (then we bought an old beat up station wagon -- a BIG one, but because we wanted to be able to transport the kids' friends, too, not because we needed one to fit the car seats.) It would have been more comfortable, perhaps, if we'd had a bigger car, but it was entirely possible in a small car. So THIS part of your argument is pure crap. meh -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care Thanks for your observation... but I'm sure others can see the merit of my comment. Cramming a small vehicle such as yours, and particularly a hatch-back, is an invitation for disaster. In event of an accident the strollers, diaper bags, toys and other cargo become flying ojects subject to doing serious injury to passengers and driver, without or without car seats. A crushing accident, say a side impact, makes for another dangereous situation, Think of it this way. Would you prefer your child to get a direct hit from a baseball bat OR have the bat strike the side of the carseat instead of your child. and a roll-over makes it almost impossible to get the children out of the wrecked vehicle. Police and fireman now carry knives and special sissors to cut the seat restraints free. And if they didn't bother with the seatbelts the police and firemen could scrap em off the pavement with a spatula! What you see as nothing but 'crap' deserves more attention, after all, it is your children at risk. I am not suggesting car seats be abandoned, no matter the reason, but I do object to a government mandate that does not allow free choice for those who do not accept the legislative findings, particularly when the government's own studies, as well as others, do not support such legislation. And no helmets for motorcyclists either. We gotta justify buying all those spatulas. Dan |
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(Illinois) Car-seat law aims to protect children
"bobb" wrote in message ... I just can't help but comment on the helmut laws, too. A number of states have eliminated previous helmut laws. Which states did that? It's often thought that a helmut protects the head against contact with another object, such as the pavement. Probably true, but studies show that neck and back injuries are caused by the helmut more often than preventing some type of head impact. Which studies show that? In how many murdercycle accidents are the drivers NOT thrown to the pavement or into a guardrail or into another vehicle? Specifically, the neck is unable to support the additional weight. This occurs at the time the motorcycle is impacted and again when the rider is thrown to the ground. The clue comes from professional race car drivers who now have their helmuts secured to the interior of the car with a wire or cord. You mean the people who are racing cars at 200MPH? We've ranted and rave about this same issue with infant child seats and other forms of restraint. Most people beleive they are being protected from being tossed from the vehicle but the fact is, those type accidents are rare indeed. Those type of collisions are unlikely to be protected by any kind restraint system. Additionally. it's rather difficult to determine when the restraint system causes additional injury. (Seat belts were causing severe head injuries which gave rise to the shoulder harness) See, bobb, they didn't throw out the seatbelts, they IMPROVED their effectiveness! And it wasn't the seatbelts that caused the injury. It was the persons head hitting the steering wheel or the dashboard. Of course without the seatbelt the driver could have been launched thru the windshield. The more frequent accident is the mere collision and a resultant sudden stop or change of direction even at slow speed, both of which puts a strain the neck and back as the head is thrust forward or to the side. The infant's, or young child's larger head, with less than fully developed neck muscles put an undesirable strain on the neck and back as much as the race car driver or motorcyclist wearing a helmut. The newer child seats are now facing toward to rear to help prevent these types of injuries but it's highly unlikely you'll see a motorcylist riding backward! Or a race car driver NOT using all the protection he can find. Twenty some years ago I was hit from behind in my car. Corolla VS Cadillac. I was wearing a seatbelt with a shoulder harness. And I did have neck and shoulder problems afterwards. But I didn't go thru the windshield. And I've seen my nephew fall off his bike head first to the pavement. It sounded like a coconut hitting cement. He just lay there motionless I ran over to pick him up and take him to the Emergency Room. Fortunately he was wearing a helmet and when he opened his eyes he BURST OUT LAUGHING!!! Best, Dan |
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(Illinois) Car-seat law aims to protect children
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message . net... "bobb" wrote in message ... "dragonlady" wrote in message ... In article , "bobb" wrote: More stupid laws. First, consider how many people had to buy a larger vehicle, perhaps even an SUV, in order to fit three or four car seats. Skipping the rest of your message . . . When my twins were born, we drove a 4 passenger Mazda hatch back. We had to install a third seatbelt in the back seat. (Fortunately, there was room on the same posts as the other seatbelts, so it was safe.) We fit two infant seats and a toddler seat in the back seat, side by side by side. The twin stroller fit (barely, but it fit) in the hatchback. Less than a year later, we had three toddler seats side by side by side in the back seat. We got by with this car until it was stolen (then we bought an old beat up station wagon -- a BIG one, but because we wanted to be able to transport the kids' friends, too, not because we needed one to fit the car seats.) It would have been more comfortable, perhaps, if we'd had a bigger car, but it was entirely possible in a small car. So THIS part of your argument is pure crap. meh -- Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care Thanks for your observation... but I'm sure others can see the merit of my comment. Cramming a small vehicle such as yours, and particularly a hatch-back, is an invitation for disaster. In event of an accident the strollers, diaper bags, toys and other cargo become flying ojects subject to doing serious injury to passengers and driver, without or without car seats. A crushing accident, say a side impact, makes for another dangereous situation, Think of it this way. Would you prefer your child to get a direct hit from a baseball bat OR have the bat strike the side of the carseat instead of your child. and a roll-over makes it almost impossible to get the children out of the wrecked vehicle. Police and fireman now carry knives and special sissors to cut the seat restraints free. And if they didn't bother with the seatbelts the police and firemen could scrap em off the pavement with a spatula! What you see as nothing but 'crap' deserves more attention, after all, it is your children at risk. I am not suggesting car seats be abandoned, no matter the reason, but I do object to a government mandate that does not allow free choice for those who do not accept the legislative findings, particularly when the government's own studies, as well as others, do not support such legislation. And no helmets for motorcyclists either. I just can't help but comment on the helmut laws, too. A number of states have eliminated previous helmut laws. It's often thought that a helmut protects the head against contact with another object, such as the pavement. Probably true, but studies show that neck and back injuries are caused by the helmut more often than preventing some type of head impact. Specifically, the neck is unable to support the additional weight. This occurs at the time the motorcycle is impacted and again when the rider is thrown to the ground. The clue comes from professional race car drivers who now have their helmuts secured to the interior of the car with a wire or cord. We've ranted and rave about this same issue with infant child seats and other forms of restraint. Most people beleive they are being protected from being tossed from the vehicle but the fact is, those type accidents are rare indeed. Those type of collisions are unlikely to be protected by any kind restraint system. Additionally. it's rather difficult to determine when the restraint system causes additional injury. (Seat belts were causing severe head injuries which gave rise to the shoulder harness) The more frequent accident is the mere collision and a resultant sudden stop or change of direction even at slow speed, both of which puts a strain the neck and back as the head is thrust forward or to the side. The infant's, or young child's larger head, with less than fully developed neck muscles put an undesirable strain on the neck and back as much as the race car driver or motorcyclist wearing a helmut. The newer child seats are now facing toward to rear to help prevent these types of injuries but it's highly unlikely you'll see a motorcylist riding backward! bobb We gotta justify buying all those spatulas. Dan |
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(Illinois) Car-seat law aims to protect children
"Dan Sullivan" wrote in message . net... "bobb" wrote in message ... I just can't help but comment on the helmut laws, too. A number of states have eliminated previous helmut laws. Which states did that? It's often thought that a helmut protects the head against contact with another object, such as the pavement. Probably true, but studies show that neck and back injuries are caused by the helmut more often than preventing some type of head impact. Which studies show that? In how many murdercycle accidents are the drivers NOT thrown to the pavement or into a guardrail or into another vehicle? Please do not confuse bodily injury with head injury.. the numbers are significantly different. Head injuries are not the most common form of hurt.. with, or without, helmults. Specifically, the neck is unable to support the additional weight. This occurs at the time the motorcycle is impacted and again when the rider is thrown to the ground. The clue comes from professional race car drivers who now have their helmuts secured to the interior of the car with a wire or cord. You mean the people who are racing cars at 200MPH? Please do not confuse a 200 mph car with hgh velocity impacts. Hitting rail or even other vehicle during a race is not as hurful as it seems. The sudden change of direction after bouncing off the wall or stiking another race car was responsbile for neck injuries... not the impact. We've ranted and rave about this same issue with infant child seats and other forms of restraint. Most people beleive they are being protected from being tossed from the vehicle but the fact is, those type accidents are rare indeed. Those type of collisions are unlikely to be protected by any kind restraint system. Additionally. it's rather difficult to determine when the restraint system causes additional injury. (Seat belts were causing severe head injuries which gave rise to the shoulder harness) See, bobb, they didn't throw out the seatbelts, they IMPROVED their effectiveness! While they didn't throw out seats belts they did not to 'improve' their effectiveness. The shoulder harness was designed to prevent the serious injuries 'caused' by the seat belt. Speciffically the forward head and shoulder thrust as well as internal injuries. I would suppose you might suggest air bags are an 'improvement' to the shoulder harness, huh? The extreme force of a deploying air bag has caused deadly head and neck trauma for about 100 children over the last decade, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Until automobile manufacturers develop air bags that are safe for children under 12, the legislators should intervene. More recently, I think it was 48 hours that did an episode exposing the number of adults being blinded by air bags, too. There are a lot of unanswered questions... and debate on both sides. I am suggesting people do not blindly follow protocals and mandates established by the government. Recall that most stats dwell only on the estimated, and I repeat... estiminated... deaths seat belts and shoulder harnesses may have prevented. They usually omit injuries.. injuries sustained as the result of wearing or using a restraint. And it wasn't the seatbelts that caused the injury. It was the persons head hitting the steering wheel or the dashboard. Yhat a strange way of looking at it. With the torso securely held in place the head and shoulders move forward with such great velocity, even in low speed impacts, the legs and arms cannot support the additional weight. The shoulder harness was an obvious preventative measure... not an improvement. Of course without the seatbelt the driver could have been launched thru the windshield. You, like many others, look at the worse case venues and hope for the best. There are few accidents that result in the possiblity of being thrown through the windshield. We should be looking, not at the worse case, but instead, the more typical accidents which are far more common and frequent. It is these accidents that bring into question the injuries caused by seat belts, shoulder harness, and air bags. The more frequent accident is the mere collision and a resultant sudden stop or change of direction even at slow speed, both of which puts a strain the neck and back as the head is thrust forward or to the side. The infant's, or young child's larger head, with less than fully developed neck muscles put an undesirable strain on the neck and back as much as the race car driver or motorcyclist wearing a helmut. The newer child seats are now facing toward to rear to help prevent these types of injuries but it's highly unlikely you'll see a motorcylist riding backward! Or a race car driver NOT using all the protection he can find. Twenty some years ago I was hit from behind in my car. Corolla VS Cadillac. I was wearing a seatbelt with a shoulder harness. And I did have neck and shoulder problems afterwards. But I didn't go thru the windshield. Being hit from behind offers little chance of being thrown through the windshield and it is doubful the seat belt or shoulder harness offered any protectioin to you... however they would apply to the vehicle that struck you from behind. And I've seen my nephew fall off his bike head first to the pavement. It sounded like a coconut hitting cement. He just lay there motionless I ran over to pick him up and take him to the Emergency Room. Fortunately he was wearing a helmet and when he opened his eyes he BURST OUT LAUGHING!!! Yep, those things happen, probably as you decribe. You might consider, though, when someone falls they are usually able to keep their head above ground level... but such an accomplishment become almost impossible with the additional weight of a helmut. This is not to say helmuts do not offer some protection but it is rare. Rare, too, because head injuries are not the most common type of serious injury. U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is released the following bit of trivia.... each year, there are about 900 bicycle-related deaths in the United States and another half a million bicycle-related injuries treated in hospital emergency rooms. Best, Dan |
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