Circumcision? - was AP research - can anyone help?

"Stephanie and Tim" wrote in message
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"chiam margalit" wrote in message
om...
"Stephanie and Tim" wrote in
message
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"Cheryl S." wrote in message
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Stephanie and Tim wrote in
message
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"WW" wrote in message
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I didn't let them do it to my kid... a few centuries ago
out of survival and medical needs, I could understand
that... but TODAY? You have to be an idiot to cut
your baby that way!

Was it *really* about survival? How so? I thought it
always stemmed from religious... something.

I have read that it first became routine about 150 years ago. I
don't
believe it was ever about survival or medical needs, or else how
would
humans have ever evolved to the point we'd even think about doing
it?
I
read that the doctors 150 years ago recommended it on grounds that
it
would reduce or eliminate the boy's desire to masturbate, which I
guess
was considered an evil thing to do, so it probably was due to
religious
influence. (Note that these would be the same doctors that treated
people with leeches, and we don't do that anymore...)

It is required for Jews, and I believe, Muslims, so of course that
is
a
religious reason. I think it's inappropriate to say "you have to be
an
idiot to cut your baby that way", since that's basically calling all
members of these religions "idiots". I consider a religious
requirement
reason enough, I just don't believe there is any other reason where
the
benefit warrants this being done routinely.
--


Is it OK to think it? OK, OK actually I am just kidding, beleive it or
not.
I never called anyone an idiot. But I could not help myself with this
one.

Well, thank you so much. From all the Jews and Muslims in the world,
who practice brit milah as we are required to from our biblical (Torah
and Koran) laws, we want to thank you, Cheryl for passing judgement on
a totally uninformed basis and acting like a complete idiot yourself.
Oh, shall I mention bigot as well? No WONDER the Muslims hate
Americans. You're a prime example of the small thinking, ethnocentric
asses that dominate the American landscape. Shame on you.





I was actually just making a joke about the wording of the poster to whom
I
replied. I do not think that people who circ their kids are idiots. My
sister had her son circed for a lot less reason that religious observance.
Several other of my nephews are circed, though I cannot remember which
ones
now. For the record, my son is not circed.

That said, as a Catholic and understanding some small amount of Catholic
history, I am cogniscent that all sorts of horrid things can be done in
the
name of religious law and observance. If relegion cannot be dynamic enough
to adapt to growing understanding, then it runs the risk of being immoral
and cruel. That something is based in religious tradition does not make it
right. And, in my opinion, ALL religions have there practices which are
somewhere between impractical and terribly terribly immoral. People who
blindly follow a religious doctrine without applying their brain to it,
are
at fault for failure to try to work *within* their religion to advance
understanding, either their own or of the religious "establishment."

You are very reactionary and get in a twist very easily. It is absolutely
true that Jews have been mistreated, misunderstood and discriminated
against
for thousands of years. And I wonder if that hasn't made you seek it where
it is not intended. If your desire is to educate us when we say things
that
are wrong, allow me to suggest that you will catch more flies with honey
than with vinegar. For myself, I maintain

1. I think circing is wrong. I love my sisters and brothers dearly who did
it. If asked, I would explain to them why I think it is wrong.

2. I do not consider myself anti-semitic for thinking circing is wrong. If
I
hated Jews out of fear and lack of understanding, I would be anti-semitic.
I
find fault with the doctrine of my own religion. Well, I find fault with
the
doctrine of Judiasm too in this case.

3. In the big scheme of things, circing is a lesser wrong to so many that
I
tend not to get upset or super vocal about it. It tends to do no good.
Good
people circ their kids. Then every one forgets it. And life goes on with
good people being good people and raising nice kids.

Incidentally, I have had sex with a turtleneck. They are neither dirty nor
smelly. Well I have never had sex with someone whose hygene was poor. But
there it is.


MY 2 cents.

S







Sorry for all this. My isp is giving me headaches.

S

wrote:

A Jewish male who is 'intact'
won't be getting sex from Jewish girls, who would not sleep with a
turtleneck (we think they're disgusting and smelly)

Why on earth would a practicing Jew be sleeping around outside marriage anyway?
Isn't that a violation of religious laws? And why on earth do you presume to
speak for all Jews on a matter that *isn't* a religious one (whether foreskins
are "disgusting and smelly")?

--Helen

Assuming you're male, are you "uncut?" If so, have you thanked your
parents? If not, do you hate your parents?

The people I know who regret having been circumcised don't hate their parents
at all, they're just sorry that one bad decision was made way back when. Big
difference.

--Helen

In article ,
Clisby Williams wrote:

Not if you can come up with a good recipe for Ukrainian borscht, I'm not.

Ah, good, another addict. Wanna meat one or a vego one?

And it's borshch. I think borscht is the Yiddish form, and am not sure it's
quite the same. Any Yiddish speakers around to tell me?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"...children should continue to be breastfed... for up to two years of age
or beyond." -- Innocenti Declaration, Florence, 1 August 1990

(Beth Kevles) wrote in message ...
For what it's worth, Jewish babies are typically given a painkiller (a
bit of sweet wine to suck on) prior to the ritual circumcision.

No adult would get drunk before his circumcision and say that's all
the anesthesia he needed. Why submit babies to pain we would not
tolerate ourselves?