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| Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 10th 03, 03:50 AM
Joni Rathbun
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Default | Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend


On 9 Oct 2003, Banty wrote:

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


I wonder if there are any protections provided by Good Sam laws. I
understand the legal issues but a good question has been asked:
What if it had been a life or death situation?



Good Samaritan laws require that you stay within your training.


Hmm. I'm not quite sure how to interpret that. The Good Samaritan
laws I'm familiar with are meant to provide some protection to
those who voluntarily render aid in good faith, including lay
people who may have no particular training. And, I believe,
some states have laws that make it an offense to NOT render
aid.



  #12  
Old October 10th 03, 07:26 AM
Greg Hanson
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Posts: n/a
Default Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine

Well, I hope the mother of the girl sues the bejeebers out of the school
for medical neglect in delaying medical care, withholding the
proper medication for the sake of filling out ever so nice bureaucratic
paperwork.

From a senselessly branched version of this thread:
(Greg Hanson) wrote

The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect on the part of
the school, for withholding/delaying inhaler in an asthma attack.

And refuse to drop the case.

This sort of case shows why Zero Tolerance is unconstitutional.

The two kids inhalers are interchangeable.

Laws are supposed to be for the protection of the people, not for the
legal convenience of the government to dictate terms to people.

To delay an inhaler only because of some stupid robotic
bureaucratic "Zero Tolerance" construct is reprehensible.

Next they'll let people DIE rather than give them an
emergency tracheotomy. Neater paperwork.

Much easier to check the boxes on a death certificate
than to argue that Zero Tolerance is stupid.

(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."


Jenn wrote

of course zero tolerance is usually a local policy -- and designed to
relieve people from [having] to exercise common sense


Whether it's a (click heels) Federal law from on high, a state law,
or simply a school policy, these are poor excuses for typical
bureaucratic lack of common sense.

it also teaches kids to have contempt for law and authority


Better put than mine, but I wrote that this also could create
a dangerous dampener on the idea of Good Samaritan laws.

this incident could have been dealt with without expelling a
student as essentially a 'drug pusher' --


Yup, sends the wrong message. This kind of in-your-face
bureaucratic stupidity might breed a lot MORE people very
sensitive about government bureaucracy stupidity. Truthfully,
you don't have to see much of this sort of thing before you
come to disrespect authority. I just hope they become
activists against moron bureaucracy rather than roving
gangs of thugs.
  #13  
Old October 10th 03, 11:05 AM
billy f
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Posts: n/a
Default | Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend

The more I read these post the more angry I'm becoming. I can not believe
that their are people out there that actually think that this teenager
should be charged.

The first mistake that they made was admitting that he gave her the inhaler.
By telling their story to the media that have admitted there supposedly
wrong doing. They are young and did know the world could be so cold. If it
was me I would not have given it to her in front of the nurse. If she seen
it I would have just denied it and said that the inhaler was hers or she
never used it. It you read the story both students are on the same
medication. I possibly would have just said it was hers from the start and
it the nurse questioned it I would have peeled the label off before the
police were called. I also would have refused to hand it over to the school.
When the police came I would have said it was hers and said that the nurse
was out to get us. I know it's wrong to lie, but when it comes to something
like this sometimes you have to. At that point it would be her word against
theirs and its possible that no charges would have been filed

That bitch of a nurse could have just ignored what she saw. She did not have
to call the police and anyone who thinks she was right in doing so is just
as evil as she is. She could have told the students that it was aginst the
law and put a little trust in them that they would not have said they did in
infront of her. Once the police were involved there was little the school or
the police could do since Texas now has a zero tolerance policy for drugs in
school with any drugs no matter if its a cold tablet or a inhaler. A policy
that was put into place to keep real drugs out of the schools. I have mild
asthma and I have used a coworkers inhaler before. Within minutes the attack
was gone. What I did was against the law and technically we both could have
been charged taking and giving none prescribed drugs. I have also taken
antibiotics that belonged to a other person that saved me a trip to the
doctor. People do it all the time and if something was to go wrong I would
not tell anyone where I got the medication. It would have been my choice to
take it, no one forced it down my throat. It however is a law that has to be
their and is meant to prevent drug abuse, and even exceptions would make it
legally abused.

When you really think about this it really is not a big deal and mean it
really isn't. In the eyes of the law it might be, but who ever said that
every law was right. I refuse the let the law control my life. I'm a law
abiding citizen, but there are some laws that people have pushed to get past
that are not right. I believe that anyone who lives by the system 100% is
depriving themselves of a happy normal life. Only the weak minded let other
control their lives. The key is to know who you can trust. People really
think they are doing the right thing by "following the law" and I'm sure in
the nurses mind she thought so too. I have lived on all three sides. I have
been friends with people the follow the law 100%, people that break all the
laws and people that use common sense. I can tell you the common sense
thinkers are the best kind of people to be around and I do not trust fully
trust anyone else. I'm talking about people that live their lives the right
way, but do not condemn those that do things differently. In other words if
I know someone that is stealing cable I'm not going to report them. If they
smoke weed or even sell it I'm not going to report them. I may not agree
with what they are doing, but I will not report them. This is why people
trust me and by people having my trust I know things that others do not
know. No one trust that nurse and therefore she is living a life with false
images. People put on a act around her and have probably done so her whole
life. They know by the way she looks and acts that she is miss "holier than
thou." So when someone mistakes her as being someone they can trust and do
something they are not suppose to do it comes as a big shock to her. In her
eyes what those students did was a big deal. In the eyes of a cool normal
person it is not. I'm sure as a child people gave her a hard time for being
this way, but she never knew why.

I think some of you need to learn the differences between what is right and
what is the law. I think you also need to learn that a law can only hurt you
if the wrong people know you have broke it.


  #14  
Old October 10th 03, 12:20 PM
Donna Metler
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Posts: n/a
Default | Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine


"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message
...

I wonder if there are any protections provided by Good Sam laws. I
understand the legal issues but a good question has been asked:
What if it had been a life or death situation?


I wonder that too-I expect that here, the official paperwork would be done,
but after the child was cleared of the charges, he would be reinstated and
the records expunged, precisely because this was an emergency situation.








  #15  
Old October 10th 03, 12:26 PM
Donna Metler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default | Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend


"billy f" wrote in message
m...
The more I read these post the more angry I'm becoming. I can not believe
that their are people out there that actually think that this teenager
should be charged.

The first mistake that they made was admitting that he gave her the

inhaler.
By telling their story to the media that have admitted there supposedly
wrong doing. They are young and did know the world could be so cold. If it
was me I would not have given it to her in front of the nurse. If she seen
it I would have just denied it and said that the inhaler was hers or she
never used it. It you read the story both students are on the same
medication. I possibly would have just said it was hers from the start and
it the nurse questioned it I would have peeled the label off before the
police were called. I also would have refused to hand it over to the

school.
When the police came I would have said it was hers and said that the nurse
was out to get us. I know it's wrong to lie, but when it comes to

something
like this sometimes you have to. At that point it would be her word

against
theirs and its possible that no charges would have been filed

I have to wonder how the nurse KNEW it was his and not hers? At least here,
rescue meds are kept on the person, not in the nurse's office, and while I
have typed identification labels on my inhalers, the official prescription
label is on the box, not on the inhaler itself.


That bitch of a nurse could have just ignored what she saw. She did not

have
to call the police and anyone who thinks she was right in doing so is just
as evil as she is. She could have told the students that it was aginst the
law and put a little trust in them that they would not have said they did

in
infront of her. Once the police were involved there was little the school

or
the police could do since Texas now has a zero tolerance policy for drugs

in
school with any drugs no matter if its a cold tablet or a inhaler. A

policy
that was put into place to keep real drugs out of the schools. I have mild
asthma and I have used a coworkers inhaler before. Within minutes the

attack
was gone. What I did was against the law and technically we both could

have
been charged taking and giving none prescribed drugs. I have also taken
antibiotics that belonged to a other person that saved me a trip to the
doctor. People do it all the time and if something was to go wrong I would
not tell anyone where I got the medication. It would have been my choice

to
take it, no one forced it down my throat. It however is a law that has to

be
their and is meant to prevent drug abuse, and even exceptions would make

it
legally abused.


That's why I said "If the school noticed it officially"-I've (on several
occasions) chosen not to notice something which, by the letter of the law, I
should have addressed-in one case, it was a little girl who had just come
back from an illness, who took a couple of (obvious) tylenol out and asked
to be excused to get a drink. I let her go. While technically, she shouldn't
have had the medication at school, there was no wrongdoing.


When you really think about this it really is not a big deal and mean it
really isn't. In the eyes of the law it might be, but who ever said that
every law was right. I refuse the let the law control my life. I'm a law
abiding citizen, but there are some laws that people have pushed to get

past
that are not right. I believe that anyone who lives by the system 100% is
depriving themselves of a happy normal life. Only the weak minded let

other
control their lives. The key is to know who you can trust. People really
think they are doing the right thing by "following the law" and I'm sure

in
the nurses mind she thought so too. I have lived on all three sides. I

have
been friends with people the follow the law 100%, people that break all

the
laws and people that use common sense. I can tell you the common sense
thinkers are the best kind of people to be around and I do not trust fully
trust anyone else. I'm talking about people that live their lives the

right
way, but do not condemn those that do things differently. In other words

if
I know someone that is stealing cable I'm not going to report them. If

they
smoke weed or even sell it I'm not going to report them. I may not agree
with what they are doing, but I will not report them. This is why people
trust me and by people having my trust I know things that others do not
know. No one trust that nurse and therefore she is living a life with

false
images. People put on a act around her and have probably done so her whole
life. They know by the way she looks and acts that she is miss "holier

than
thou." So when someone mistakes her as being someone they can trust and do
something they are not suppose to do it comes as a big shock to her. In

her
eyes what those students did was a big deal. In the eyes of a cool normal
person it is not. I'm sure as a child people gave her a hard time for

being
this way, but she never knew why.

I think some of you need to learn the differences between what is right

and
what is the law. I think you also need to learn that a law can only hurt

you
if the wrong people know you have broke it.

I expect that the charges will be dropped, and the record expunged. That's
what would happen here, anyway.

However, as you stated (and as I have been stating in this thread), once the
police were involved and the boy charged with a felony, the school didn't
have much choice in the matter. And, if the girl had been hurt by the use of
someone else's medication, the school's you-know-what would have been in a
sling.



  #16  
Old October 10th 03, 02:03 PM
Banty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default | Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


On 9 Oct 2003, Banty wrote:

In article , Joni
Rathbun says...


I wonder if there are any protections provided by Good Sam laws. I
understand the legal issues but a good question has been asked:
What if it had been a life or death situation?



Good Samaritan laws require that you stay within your training.


Hmm. I'm not quite sure how to interpret that. The Good Samaritan
laws I'm familiar with are meant to provide some protection to
those who voluntarily render aid in good faith, including lay
people who may have no particular training. And, I believe,
some states have laws that make it an offense to NOT render
aid.



Lay people are not to practice medicine, and that's what this is. A Good
Samaritan law would apply to rescue, etc., but not to improvised lay field
surgery or giving medicine w/out a prescription. Even EMTs in NYS, who are
covered by a Good Samaritan law, are to instruct a pt to give *themselves* their
epi or nitro.

There may be variations state by state.

THere is a 'Good Samaritan Principle' which actually holds that people are *not*
required to render aid. A few states have something on the books to cover
egregious cases, but with no more than fines. Most states do not requir people
to render any aid at all, exceptions being special relationships like parent to
child.

Banty

  #17  
Old October 10th 03, 05:17 PM
Fern5827
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default | TEXAS Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine

Pokey is fwd these posts and snipping what he can.

The state is Texas. Great.

Not mentioned at all in text nor in URL.

His ad homs serve to illustrate that he works for the foster care system, and
is an apologist for the ILLEGALITIES perpetuated by CPS, nationwide.


The Zero tolerance policy isn't a
school board matter. They don't get to overrule state or federal law,
or didn't you know that? Even th


This is 90% School Board policies, Cain.

Even the reporter got that wrong, but if you


Really?

new state laws mean their hands are tied when it comes to
zero tolerance and drugs."



There is such a thing as JUDGEMENT.

NEW STATE LAWS, DOES NOT MEAN ABANDONING COMMON SENSE.

Yep. Obviously CPS was at fault. They should have protected the child
from pollens and mold.



How would like to choke to death?

This reporter the one that taught you to write, Bark?


NEW STATE POLICY. BTW, Texas is notorious for letting children just flunk out
of school.

Billy fwd:

Subject: Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend

medicine
From: "billy f"
Date: 10/9/2003 8:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/100...l_inhaler.html


ABC13 Eyewitness News
(10/08/03 - CONROE) - There's controversy over a school's zero

tolerance
drug policy. Some say it's gone too far. A 15-year-old faces

expulsion after
giving an inhaler to his girlfriend during an asthma attack that

happened at
school.

Boyfriend and girlfriend, 15-year-olds Brandon Kizi and Andra

Ferguson are
both asthma sufferers and both students at Caney Creek High School.

At
least, they were, until Andra began suffering an asthma attack at

school.

"I couldn't breathe, and I was just very short of breath," recalled

Andra.
"My chest was tightened up and it was hurting."

Brandon described the incident. "Her face was turning a little

reddish-pink
and she looked pale, as far as I could see. I loaned her my inhaler.

I
walked her to the nurse's office and loaned her my inhaler."

That's when the trouble started. The school nurse called the school

police,
who arrested Brandon. They charged him with a felony, namely

distributing a
dangerous drug for loaning out his prescription inhaler. Andra's

mother
thinks that's wrong.

"His (inhaler) is the very same thing. And he has had my permission

to give
her that medication any time she forgets it," said Sandra Ferguson.

But school officials say that Brandon had been warned about loaning

his
inhaler, and that new state laws mean their hands are tied when it

comes to
zero tolerance and drugs.

Principal Greg Poole told Eyewitness News, "It's hard, it's

difficult. We
certainly don't look forward to expelling any kid. But then you have

to
consider a kid takes the medication and has an allergic reaction,

and then
we have to deal with that issue. So, yes, there is no discretion at

this
stage."

Brandon now faces mandatory expulsion from school and criminal

charges in
juvenile court. His mother is outraged.

Theresa Hock said, "It's so unfair. My son was helping her out. And

now he's
facing criminal charges. Would they rather have had her die than my

son to
help her?"

Brandon has a hearing on Friday to determine how long he'll be

expelled for.
In addition, he still has to go to juvenile court to deal with that

felony
charge.
(Copyright © 2003, KTRK-TV)




http://www.familyrightsassociation.com Mom oughta contact them.

Folks and
sites in each state.











  #18  
Old October 11th 03, 03:42 PM
bobb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine


"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Donna Metler" wrote:

I suppose you realize that if his inhaler had been a different

medication,
and the girl had taken harm from it, the school would now be sued by the
parent for not protecting the girl. Prescription medication should NEVER

be
loaned or given to another person. If she has athsma and has a

prescription
inhaler, she should carry it with her-not expect to borrow her

boyfriend's.
Prescription inhalers can have pretty major side effects if used

improperly,
or by someone who doesn't need them.

Realistically, the school's hands are tied on this-Zero Tolerance isn't

a
local law or board policy. And from a legal standpoint, they'd be a lot

more
at risk if they condoned a student passing prescription medication

around.




of course zero tolerance is usually a local policy -- and designed to
relieve people from ahving to exercise common sense

it also teaches kids to have contempt for law and authority

this incident could have been dealt with without expelling a student as
essentially a 'drug pusher' --


Rah, Rah, Jenn... Well stated. At least you and a few others exhibit
common sense.

bobb



  #19  
Old October 11th 03, 03:58 PM
bobb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine


"Donna Metler" wrote in message
. ..

"Joni Rathbun" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Donna Metler wrote:

I suppose you realize that if his inhaler had been a different

medication,
and the girl had taken harm from it, the school would now be sued by

the
parent for not protecting the girl. Prescription medication should

NEVER
be
loaned or given to another person. If she has athsma and has a

prescription
inhaler, she should carry it with her-not expect to borrow her

boyfriend's.
Prescription inhalers can have pretty major side effects if used

improperly,
or by someone who doesn't need them.

Realistically, the school's hands are tied on this-Zero Tolerance

isn't
a
local law or board policy.


Where does it come from then?

In my state, drug distribution-prescription or illegal, is a felony, and

any
felony on school property requires a mandatory 1 year suspension or
reassignment to an alternative education setting. This is part of the

state
education code.


This exhibits the problem with 'special laws'. It wasn't enough that
possession or use of illegal drugs wasn't enough. Legislators had to create
a new law that applied to schools and now that single law has been expanded
to include otherwise law abiding people or are not dealing in illegal drugs.
Another law says it even more wrong to sell illegal drugs within so many
blocks of a school. Selling illegal drugs is less serious further away from
a school?

It's not enough to recognize that we have laws against killing people... we
now have special laws that apply favoring police officers, firemen,
minorites, the aged, legislators, and the list goes on. Obviously their
lives are more important than mine.

Understand that those who pass, promote, or agree with such laws are
pandering to special interest groups without, maybe, being aware of
unintended consequences... or maybe they are. Either way, these legislator
should be recalled or voted out of office. Pandering and catering to
special interest groups should be illegal in itself. These laws violate
equal protection as well as all the rules of justice and fairness.

Consider that selling drugs near a school apply mainly to blacks who live in
the inner city... not the suburbs where school are not a gathering or
meeting place. Intended or not blacks are exposed and arrested under this
provision to a much larger degree than white suburban kids.

Bobb






Giving another student a prescription drug counts as distribution. If the
school took official notice of it at all, they wouldn't have had much
choice. And ignoring it would have risked liability if something had
happened to the girl due to the medication.

It may be different elsewhere


And from a legal standpoint, they'd be a lot more
at risk if they condoned a student passing prescription medication

around.







  #20  
Old October 11th 03, 04:10 PM
bobb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default | Teen faces expulsion and felony for loaning girlfriend medicine


"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
The mother of the girl should sue for medical neglect on the part of
the school, for withholding/delaying inhaler in an asthma attack.

And refuse to drop the case.

This sort of case shows why Zero Tolerance is unconstitutional.

The two kids inhalers are interchangeable.

Laws are supposed to be for the protection of the people, not for the
legal convenience of the government to dictate terms to people.

To delay an inhaler only because of some stupid robotic
bureaucratic "Zero Tolerance" construct is reprehensible.

Next they'll let people DIE rather than give them an
emergency tracheotomy. Neater paperwork.

Much easier to check the boxes on a death certificate
than to argue that Zero Tolerance is stupid.

(Hands in air) "Oh Well, her asthma killed her."


Consider the opposite effect. Suppose the kid died and it was demonstrated
that the mere use of any available inhaler would've been a life saving
resource?

There is child laying on the floor gasping for breath.. yet it's illegal to
use an available life-saving resource.

Sorry, I can't loan you my inhaler cuz if I do.. I will be suspended from
school and arrested on a felony charge. If you die, it's not my problem...
it's the state and school policy. Being the law abiding citizen I am it's
not my responsibility or concern.

Who would be getting sued then... and for what?

bobb


 




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