Where the CS goes....

Those people shouldn't be raising children, and if they're on
disability for those reasons, they should be put into a mandatory
treatment program and let their disability checks pay for it.
Joy
===
"teachrmama" wrote in message ...
"Joy B" wrote in message
om...
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER DO ANY KIND OF MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE, THEN GET
BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR WITH THEIR CHILD IN IT!!!! I don't care if
you are CP, NCP or what! Bigger picture, it should NEVER be done by
anyone, parent or not a parent. Now, I don't drink or do drugs, but
nor am I a prude. I think it is acceptable for a parent to have a
glass or two of an alcoholic beverage while caring for a child as long
as it is in moderation and does not affect the quality of care given
to the child. I stress, IN MODERATION!!! I would have no problem with
dad having a couple of drinks at home if he had no intention of going
anywhere.

I also feel that drugs, in any amount are unacceptable while caring
for a child. As far as your question, absolutely! If a mother is doing
excessive drinking, while caring for the child, the father should step
up and "react".

Now to open another can of worms, since you brought up the welfare
issue, I believe that a law should be passed that anyone who collects
welfare should have mandatory periodoc drug testing before handing out
any kind of benefits to them. This would help identify the parents who
are on drugs and raising children, then perhaps our less fortunate
children could have a better chance of survival.

I wouldn't object to that, Joy. But how about the welfare recipients who
run out of benefits and are placed on SSI because of the "disability" that
causes them to drink and/or drug? Since they are "disabled" in their
ability to refuse alcohol/drugs, surely you wouldn't expect them to pass a
drug test, would you?

HMM...I knew I was opening a can of worms. You're right but as I said,
my position is still that no parent should do drugs, or anyone for
that matter. It's not a foolproof plan but it is a place to start.
Yes, it is about protecting tax dollars as well. That's because those
tax dollars are meant for the less fortunate children of those
parents. In a roundabout way the protection would eventually make it
to the child. I know other chlidren are less fortunate in many
different ways and when you come up with a way to help fix that, let
me know and I'll jump on your bandwagon. As I said, it's a start.
Joy
===
"gini52" wrote in message ...
"Joy B" wrote in message
om...
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER DO ANY KIND OF MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE, THEN GET
BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR WITH THEIR CHILD IN IT!!!! I don't care if
you are CP, NCP or what! Bigger picture, it should NEVER be done by
anyone, parent or not a parent. Now, I don't drink or do drugs, but
nor am I a prude. I think it is acceptable for a parent to have a
glass or two of an alcoholic beverage while caring for a child as long
as it is in moderation and does not affect the quality of care given
to the child. I stress, IN MODERATION!!! I would have no problem with
dad having a couple of drinks at home if he had no intention of going
anywhere.

I also feel that drugs, in any amount are unacceptable while caring
for a child. As far as your question, absolutely! If a mother is doing
excessive drinking, while caring for the child, the father should step
up and "react".

Now to open another can of worms, since you brought up the welfare
issue, I believe that a law should be passed that anyone who collects
welfare should have mandatory periodoc drug testing before handing out
any kind of benefits to them.
===
And I presume you would also require those receiving corporate welfare
to have the same testing? I can see it all now!
(More)
===
This would help identify the parents who
are on drugs and raising children,
===
No, this would identify parents who are on welfare and are using drugs and
raising children.
Do you really believe there are more welfare drug users than non-welfare
drug users?
And how is it that you would justify testing welfare parents for drugs but
not non-welfare
parents? Is it about protecting children from drug using parents or
protecting tax dollars?
(More)
===
then perhaps our less fortunate
children could have a better chance of survival.
Joy
===
"Less fortunate" is not defined as simply without financial
means. I can assure you that there are many unfortunate kids in the homes of
non-welfare
working poor, in middle income homes and in high income homes. Unless you
are prepared
to mandate drug testing for all parents (and hey, why not do annual home
inspections as well),
I think you should reconsider your position. Do you know how many wealthy
parents use mood-altering
substances? Surely you are not that naive!
==
==

HMM...I knew I was opening a can of worms. You're right but as I said,
my position is still that no parent should do drugs, or anyone for
that matter. It's not a foolproof plan but it is a place to start.
Yes, it is about protecting tax dollars as well. That's because those
tax dollars are meant for the less fortunate children of those
parents. In a roundabout way the protection would eventually make it
to the child. I know other chlidren are less fortunate in many
different ways and when you come up with a way to help fix that, let
me know and I'll jump on your bandwagon. As I said, it's a start.
Joy
===
"gini52" wrote in message ...
"Joy B" wrote in message
om...
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER DO ANY KIND OF MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE, THEN GET
BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR WITH THEIR CHILD IN IT!!!! I don't care if
you are CP, NCP or what! Bigger picture, it should NEVER be done by
anyone, parent or not a parent. Now, I don't drink or do drugs, but
nor am I a prude. I think it is acceptable for a parent to have a
glass or two of an alcoholic beverage while caring for a child as long
as it is in moderation and does not affect the quality of care given
to the child. I stress, IN MODERATION!!! I would have no problem with
dad having a couple of drinks at home if he had no intention of going
anywhere.

I also feel that drugs, in any amount are unacceptable while caring
for a child. As far as your question, absolutely! If a mother is doing
excessive drinking, while caring for the child, the father should step
up and "react".

Now to open another can of worms, since you brought up the welfare
issue, I believe that a law should be passed that anyone who collects
welfare should have mandatory periodoc drug testing before handing out
any kind of benefits to them.
===
And I presume you would also require those receiving corporate welfare
to have the same testing? I can see it all now!
(More)
===
This would help identify the parents who
are on drugs and raising children,
===
No, this would identify parents who are on welfare and are using drugs and
raising children.
Do you really believe there are more welfare drug users than non-welfare
drug users?
And how is it that you would justify testing welfare parents for drugs but
not non-welfare
parents? Is it about protecting children from drug using parents or
protecting tax dollars?
(More)
===
then perhaps our less fortunate
children could have a better chance of survival.
Joy
===
"Less fortunate" is not defined as simply without financial
means. I can assure you that there are many unfortunate kids in the homes of
non-welfare
working poor, in middle income homes and in high income homes. Unless you
are prepared
to mandate drug testing for all parents (and hey, why not do annual home
inspections as well),
I think you should reconsider your position. Do you know how many wealthy
parents use mood-altering
substances? Surely you are not that naive!
==
==

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Joy B" wrote in message
om...
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER DO ANY KIND OF MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE, THEN GET
BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR WITH THEIR CHILD IN IT!!!! I don't care if
you are CP, NCP or what! Bigger picture, it should NEVER be done by
anyone, parent or not a parent. Now, I don't drink or do drugs, but
nor am I a prude. I think it is acceptable for a parent to have a
glass or two of an alcoholic beverage while caring for a child as long
as it is in moderation and does not affect the quality of care given
to the child. I stress, IN MODERATION!!! I would have no problem with
dad having a couple of drinks at home if he had no intention of going
anywhere.

I also feel that drugs, in any amount are unacceptable while caring
for a child. As far as your question, absolutely! If a mother is doing
excessive drinking, while caring for the child, the father should step
up and "react".

Now to open another can of worms, since you brought up the welfare
issue, I believe that a law should be passed that anyone who collects
welfare should have mandatory periodoc drug testing before handing out
any kind of benefits to them. This would help identify the parents who
are on drugs and raising children, then perhaps our less fortunate
children could have a better chance of survival.

I wouldn't object to that, Joy. But how about the welfare recipients who
run out of benefits and are placed on SSI because of the "disability" that
causes them to drink and/or drug? Since they are "disabled" in their
ability to refuse alcohol/drugs, surely you wouldn't expect them to pass a
drug test, would you?


OMG!! you are not seriously telling me addicts in your Country are put onto
disability benefits???????

ROFLMAO you have got to be kidding me DAMN the US is worse off than I
thought.........

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Joy B" wrote in message
om...
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER DO ANY KIND OF MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE, THEN GET
BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR WITH THEIR CHILD IN IT!!!! I don't care if
you are CP, NCP or what! Bigger picture, it should NEVER be done by
anyone, parent or not a parent. Now, I don't drink or do drugs, but
nor am I a prude. I think it is acceptable for a parent to have a
glass or two of an alcoholic beverage while caring for a child as long
as it is in moderation and does not affect the quality of care given
to the child. I stress, IN MODERATION!!! I would have no problem with
dad having a couple of drinks at home if he had no intention of going
anywhere.

I also feel that drugs, in any amount are unacceptable while caring
for a child. As far as your question, absolutely! If a mother is doing
excessive drinking, while caring for the child, the father should step
up and "react".

Now to open another can of worms, since you brought up the welfare
issue, I believe that a law should be passed that anyone who collects
welfare should have mandatory periodoc drug testing before handing out
any kind of benefits to them. This would help identify the parents who
are on drugs and raising children, then perhaps our less fortunate
children could have a better chance of survival.

I wouldn't object to that, Joy. But how about the welfare recipients who
run out of benefits and are placed on SSI because of the "disability" that
causes them to drink and/or drug? Since they are "disabled" in their
ability to refuse alcohol/drugs, surely you wouldn't expect them to pass a
drug test, would you?


OMG!! you are not seriously telling me addicts in your Country are put onto
disability benefits???????

ROFLMAO you have got to be kidding me DAMN the US is worse off than I
thought.........

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
nk.net...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

Joy B wrote in message
om...
Thanks, I apreciate the good advice. She's actually turning 12
now
but
that's not so relevant to the issue at hand. It's the second day
of
the party that he is available and I have already sent an e-mail
suggesting he do something later that day. He still has yet to
respond. I will definitely however, address the issue of the
drinking
and driving with him. My daughter is the one who told me about
it
the
last time so I will have a talk with her also and take the
advice
of
one of the other posters and give her my cell phone to take just
in
case. I have only met his new wife once but my ex-mother in law
tells
me that she is a very heavy drinker as well so that doesn't
comfort
me
too much either. I try so hard to keep an open mind but can't
help
but
feel he is going to hurt her again by not calling for another 8+
months. We'll just have to wait and see. Thanks again.
Joy
===


I would suggest easing into the drinking and driving issue very
carefully.
If he is like most folks, he will say that having one or two
drinks
doesn't
impair his driving and whatnot and it could turn into a BIG fight.
I
have
also had this come up with my daughters father, she is old enough
to
tell
me
that he has a few beers and it is very disturbing. As of the last
visit,
there has been no more visits so I have not had to worry. I am not
against
drinking but in 12 years of raising my daughter I have never found
it
necessary to drink any alcohol and drive with her in the car. He
would
see
her a handful of times but have to drink?!?!

I realize you and others are trying to give situational advice on a
couple
of NCP's drinking while parenting.

But the bigger picture is the courts and the states do not care
about
this
issue if it is the CP mothers doing the drinking or doing drugs. In
my
state part of the demographics published on the state's web site
shows
50%
of welfare clients (92% are mothers) admit they have drug and
alcohol
problems. I have always wondered how many more there are who don't
admit
they have a problem.

So for me the larger question is - if it is appropriate for CP
mothers
to
react to NCP fathers drinking or doing drugs, isn't it just as
appropriate
to have a similar reaction to CP mothers drinking or doing drugs?
Since
the
CP mothers have custody on average 80-100% of the time, I consider
the
mothers' drinking and drug use to be a bigger issue and impact on
the
children than a father using alcohol or drugs during a visitation
time.

That may well be true, Bob. But individual CPs have the absolute
right
to
tell indicidual NCPs that they may not drink and drive with the
children
in
the car, and use legal means to prevent them from doing so.

Not according to custody law. CP's have the right to make decisions
about
a
child's education, religious training, and medical treatment, but they
have
no legal authority over what the NCP does while parenting. They may
disagree with how an NCP acts during parenting time, but the CP has no
legal
right to tell an NCP how to behave or parent. You are headed down a
slippery slope with an argument where one parent can exercise control
over
the behavior of another parent based on their personal whims of how they
should parent.

Come on, Bob! It is illegal to drive while impaired by alcohol or drugs.
I
could never just shrug it off and say "Well, the kid is with dad, so what
the heck." It would not be about my telling the NCP how to parent--it
would
be about getting another drunk driver off the road. I wish someone had
cared enough to keep the (*&*% drunk who smashed into our car and injured
my
daughters off the road. I'm sure he thought that just a few drinks
wouldn't
impair him, either. CP, NCP, or whoever the heck else--they should NEVER
drive while under the influence. And if I had to go so far as hiring
someone to take pictures of him drinking and call the police when he got
behind the wheel, I'd do so. The children of folks who drive under the
influence didn't ask to have an idiot for a parent.

I am just as sensitive about this issue as you are because I tried to get
help from a judge to stop it. The defining moment for me was when my
children were in the car with their mom after she had been out partying late
with "friends" and she drove off the road through a ditch and into a fence.
My children told me she was drunk. Of course, my ex denied she had been
drinking. All the judge would do is require mutually stipulated language in
the decree that neither parent would drink and drive with the children in
the car. It was like a joke and meaningless because the words on a piece of
paper did nothing to stop the problem.

And the illegal part of driving under the influence of alcohol and drug
abuse is just the tip of the iceberg. The lack of care for the children in
the home, and the way children are forced to adapt to compensate for the
lack of care, leave emotional scars for life.

My point was to state an objection to one parent having the ability to act
as judge and jury when they don't like the other parent's behavior. I tried
to use the system and it failed me. I tried getting help from Children
Services and they told me they only get involved after the fact and never
before something bad happens to the children. I tried letting my children
not return to their mother's care, and I was threatened with jail for
custodial interference. The sad truth is there is no solution to the
problem of parental drug and alcohol abuse and the legal system has a track
record of ignoring this problem.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
nk.net...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Tiffany" wrote in message
...

Joy B wrote in message
om...
Thanks, I apreciate the good advice. She's actually turning 12
now
but
that's not so relevant to the issue at hand. It's the second day
of
the party that he is available and I have already sent an e-mail
suggesting he do something later that day. He still has yet to
respond. I will definitely however, address the issue of the
drinking
and driving with him. My daughter is the one who told me about
it
the
last time so I will have a talk with her also and take the
advice
of
one of the other posters and give her my cell phone to take just
in
case. I have only met his new wife once but my ex-mother in law
tells
me that she is a very heavy drinker as well so that doesn't
comfort
me
too much either. I try so hard to keep an open mind but can't
help
but
feel he is going to hurt her again by not calling for another 8+
months. We'll just have to wait and see. Thanks again.
Joy
===


I would suggest easing into the drinking and driving issue very
carefully.
If he is like most folks, he will say that having one or two
drinks
doesn't
impair his driving and whatnot and it could turn into a BIG fight.
I
have
also had this come up with my daughters father, she is old enough
to
tell
me
that he has a few beers and it is very disturbing. As of the last
visit,
there has been no more visits so I have not had to worry. I am not
against
drinking but in 12 years of raising my daughter I have never found
it
necessary to drink any alcohol and drive with her in the car. He
would
see
her a handful of times but have to drink?!?!

I realize you and others are trying to give situational advice on a
couple
of NCP's drinking while parenting.

But the bigger picture is the courts and the states do not care
about
this
issue if it is the CP mothers doing the drinking or doing drugs. In
my
state part of the demographics published on the state's web site
shows
50%
of welfare clients (92% are mothers) admit they have drug and
alcohol
problems. I have always wondered how many more there are who don't
admit
they have a problem.

So for me the larger question is - if it is appropriate for CP
mothers
to
react to NCP fathers drinking or doing drugs, isn't it just as
appropriate
to have a similar reaction to CP mothers drinking or doing drugs?
Since
the
CP mothers have custody on average 80-100% of the time, I consider
the
mothers' drinking and drug use to be a bigger issue and impact on
the
children than a father using alcohol or drugs during a visitation
time.

That may well be true, Bob. But individual CPs have the absolute
right
to
tell indicidual NCPs that they may not drink and drive with the
children
in
the car, and use legal means to prevent them from doing so.

Not according to custody law. CP's have the right to make decisions
about
a
child's education, religious training, and medical treatment, but they
have
no legal authority over what the NCP does while parenting. They may
disagree with how an NCP acts during parenting time, but the CP has no
legal
right to tell an NCP how to behave or parent. You are headed down a
slippery slope with an argument where one parent can exercise control
over
the behavior of another parent based on their personal whims of how they
should parent.

Come on, Bob! It is illegal to drive while impaired by alcohol or drugs.
I
could never just shrug it off and say "Well, the kid is with dad, so what
the heck." It would not be about my telling the NCP how to parent--it
would
be about getting another drunk driver off the road. I wish someone had
cared enough to keep the (*&*% drunk who smashed into our car and injured
my
daughters off the road. I'm sure he thought that just a few drinks
wouldn't
impair him, either. CP, NCP, or whoever the heck else--they should NEVER
drive while under the influence. And if I had to go so far as hiring
someone to take pictures of him drinking and call the police when he got
behind the wheel, I'd do so. The children of folks who drive under the
influence didn't ask to have an idiot for a parent.

I am just as sensitive about this issue as you are because I tried to get
help from a judge to stop it. The defining moment for me was when my
children were in the car with their mom after she had been out partying late
with "friends" and she drove off the road through a ditch and into a fence.
My children told me she was drunk. Of course, my ex denied she had been
drinking. All the judge would do is require mutually stipulated language in
the decree that neither parent would drink and drive with the children in
the car. It was like a joke and meaningless because the words on a piece of
paper did nothing to stop the problem.

And the illegal part of driving under the influence of alcohol and drug
abuse is just the tip of the iceberg. The lack of care for the children in
the home, and the way children are forced to adapt to compensate for the
lack of care, leave emotional scars for life.

My point was to state an objection to one parent having the ability to act
as judge and jury when they don't like the other parent's behavior. I tried
to use the system and it failed me. I tried getting help from Children
Services and they told me they only get involved after the fact and never
before something bad happens to the children. I tried letting my children
not return to their mother's care, and I was threatened with jail for
custodial interference. The sad truth is there is no solution to the
problem of parental drug and alcohol abuse and the legal system has a track
record of ignoring this problem.

"gini52" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news

"Joy B" wrote in message
om...
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER DO ANY KIND OF MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE, THEN GET
BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR WITH THEIR CHILD IN IT!!!! I don't care if
you are CP, NCP or what! Bigger picture, it should NEVER be done by
anyone, parent or not a parent. Now, I don't drink or do drugs, but
nor am I a prude. I think it is acceptable for a parent to have a
glass or two of an alcoholic beverage while caring for a child as long
as it is in moderation and does not affect the quality of care given
to the child. I stress, IN MODERATION!!! I would have no problem with
dad having a couple of drinks at home if he had no intention of going
anywhere.

I also feel that drugs, in any amount are unacceptable while caring
for a child. As far as your question, absolutely! If a mother is doing
excessive drinking, while caring for the child, the father should step
up and "react".

Now to open another can of worms, since you brought up the welfare
issue, I believe that a law should be passed that anyone who collects
welfare should have mandatory periodoc drug testing before handing out
any kind of benefits to them. This would help identify the parents who
are on drugs and raising children, then perhaps our less fortunate
children could have a better chance of survival.

I couldn't agree more. We, as a society, are paying welfare mothers
hard
earned tax dollars to "lift them out of poverty." What is really going
on
is tax dollars are being diverted to mothers with drug and alcohol
problems
to continue their addictions. The money is paid "for the children" but
the
children never see the money. The crack dealers brag about when
"mothers'
payday" occurs and how good their business is that time of the month.
==
Oh puleeze, Bob. Aren't you always (rightly) clamouring for statistics to
back assertions and for equal protection rights?
So tell me:
1. Where is your proof that there is a systemic problem of welfare mothers
on drugs?

Enter "welfare mothers AND drugs" into your favorite search engine and
you'll get results like this:

http://www.cwla.org/programs/bhd/aodcwfactsheet.htm

Note that surveys show between 40-80% of welfare mothers are drug and
alcohol abusers creating extra costs for the system related to their abuse
and neglect of children. In 1997 a CWLA survey concluded 67% of welfare
mothers needed alcohol and drug abuse therapy. My state reports 50% of
welfare clients have drug and alcohol abuse problems.

2. Where is your tax waste data that proves welfare mothers on drugs is a
greater tax waste than other areas such as corporate welfare?

My concern is not about corporate welfare. The incidence of child abuse and
neglect skyrockets when poverty is mixed with alcohol and drug abuse. One
of the major problems we have in America is the widespread involvement of
welfare mothers in drug dealing. They are dealing to get money and drugs to
support their habits, not their children. Note that the reference I posted
above cites a Columbia University study that estimates welfare mother drug
and alcohol abuse costs this country $10 billion per year.

"gini52" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news

"Joy B" wrote in message
om...
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER DO ANY KIND OF MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE, THEN GET
BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR WITH THEIR CHILD IN IT!!!! I don't care if
you are CP, NCP or what! Bigger picture, it should NEVER be done by
anyone, parent or not a parent. Now, I don't drink or do drugs, but
nor am I a prude. I think it is acceptable for a parent to have a
glass or two of an alcoholic beverage while caring for a child as long
as it is in moderation and does not affect the quality of care given
to the child. I stress, IN MODERATION!!! I would have no problem with
dad having a couple of drinks at home if he had no intention of going
anywhere.

I also feel that drugs, in any amount are unacceptable while caring
for a child. As far as your question, absolutely! If a mother is doing
excessive drinking, while caring for the child, the father should step
up and "react".

Now to open another can of worms, since you brought up the welfare
issue, I believe that a law should be passed that anyone who collects
welfare should have mandatory periodoc drug testing before handing out
any kind of benefits to them. This would help identify the parents who
are on drugs and raising children, then perhaps our less fortunate
children could have a better chance of survival.

I couldn't agree more. We, as a society, are paying welfare mothers
hard
earned tax dollars to "lift them out of poverty." What is really going
on
is tax dollars are being diverted to mothers with drug and alcohol
problems
to continue their addictions. The money is paid "for the children" but
the
children never see the money. The crack dealers brag about when
"mothers'
payday" occurs and how good their business is that time of the month.
==
Oh puleeze, Bob. Aren't you always (rightly) clamouring for statistics to
back assertions and for equal protection rights?
So tell me:
1. Where is your proof that there is a systemic problem of welfare mothers
on drugs?

Enter "welfare mothers AND drugs" into your favorite search engine and
you'll get results like this:

http://www.cwla.org/programs/bhd/aodcwfactsheet.htm

Note that surveys show between 40-80% of welfare mothers are drug and
alcohol abusers creating extra costs for the system related to their abuse
and neglect of children. In 1997 a CWLA survey concluded 67% of welfare
mothers needed alcohol and drug abuse therapy. My state reports 50% of
welfare clients have drug and alcohol abuse problems.

2. Where is your tax waste data that proves welfare mothers on drugs is a
greater tax waste than other areas such as corporate welfare?

My concern is not about corporate welfare. The incidence of child abuse and
neglect skyrockets when poverty is mixed with alcohol and drug abuse. One
of the major problems we have in America is the widespread involvement of
welfare mothers in drug dealing. They are dealing to get money and drugs to
support their habits, not their children. Note that the reference I posted
above cites a Columbia University study that estimates welfare mother drug
and alcohol abuse costs this country $10 billion per year.

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"gini52" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
news

"Joy B" wrote in message
om...
NO PARENT SHOULD EVER DO ANY KIND OF MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCE, THEN
GET
BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR WITH THEIR CHILD IN IT!!!! I don't care if
you are CP, NCP or what! Bigger picture, it should NEVER be done by
anyone, parent or not a parent. Now, I don't drink or do drugs, but
nor am I a prude. I think it is acceptable for a parent to have a
glass or two of an alcoholic beverage while caring for a child as
long
as it is in moderation and does not affect the quality of care given
to the child. I stress, IN MODERATION!!! I would have no problem
with
dad having a couple of drinks at home if he had no intention of
going
anywhere.

I also feel that drugs, in any amount are unacceptable while caring
for a child. As far as your question, absolutely! If a mother is
doing
excessive drinking, while caring for the child, the father should
step
up and "react".

Now to open another can of worms, since you brought up the welfare
issue, I believe that a law should be passed that anyone who
collects
welfare should have mandatory periodoc drug testing before handing
out
any kind of benefits to them. This would help identify the parents
who
are on drugs and raising children, then perhaps our less fortunate
children could have a better chance of survival.

I couldn't agree more. We, as a society, are paying welfare mothers
hard
earned tax dollars to "lift them out of poverty." What is really
going
on
is tax dollars are being diverted to mothers with drug and alcohol
problems
to continue their addictions. The money is paid "for the children"
but
the
children never see the money. The crack dealers brag about when
"mothers'
payday" occurs and how good their business is that time of the month.
==
Oh puleeze, Bob. Aren't you always (rightly) clamouring for statistics
to
back assertions and for equal protection rights?
So tell me:
1. Where is your proof that there is a systemic problem of welfare
mothers
on drugs?

Enter "welfare mothers AND drugs" into your favorite search engine and
you'll get results like this:

http://www.cwla.org/programs/bhd/aodcwfactsheet.htm

Note that surveys show between 40-80% of welfare mothers are drug and
alcohol abusers creating extra costs for the system related to their abuse
and neglect of children. In 1997 a CWLA survey concluded 67% of welfare
mothers needed alcohol and drug abuse therapy. My state reports 50% of
welfare clients have drug and alcohol abuse problems.

2. Where is your tax waste data that proves welfare mothers on drugs is
a
greater tax waste than other areas such as corporate welfare?

My concern is not about corporate welfare. The incidence of child abuse
and
neglect skyrockets when poverty is mixed with alcohol and drug abuse. One
of the major problems we have in America is the widespread involvement of
welfare mothers in drug dealing. They are dealing to get money and drugs
to
support their habits, not their children. Note that the reference I posted
above cites a Columbia University study that estimates welfare mother drug
and alcohol abuse costs this country $10 billion per year.
==
That's not what it says, Bob. It is referencing this article (which I have
not read and I presume you have not read):

The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse. (1999). No safe haven:
Children of substance abusing parents. New York: Author.

There is no indication that this article states that these parents are *on*
state welfare roles as the article you referenced seems to co-mingle "child
welfare" (which is a compilation of hundreds of organizations and state
"child welfare system" which are not interchangeable). And from Donna
Shalala's remarks to the Child Welfare League:

"Our message to parents is clear: if you're not providing for your children,
we'll garnish your wages, suspend your driver's and professional licenses,
track you across state lines, and, if necessary, make you work off what you
owe.

That's our vision. And, that's real welfare reform."

How much has the Child Welfare League contributed to the family court mess
we have today and how does the CWL benefit from from that mess and these
"statistics" which are clearly exaggerated and manipulated?
==
==