We don need no steenkin' CPS.

Kane wrote
"Over a thousand a year. My bet is not ONE of those
murderous parents thinks CPS is a useful agency."

Aren't they EXPERTS at the failures of the agency?
Why should they have an opinion any better
than the millions of other people who know
that CPS agencies are a government run RACKET?

Should we throw tea in a harbor to make our point?

Instead of the word "maltreatment" can we
switch to the word "bureaucratic rescue fantasy"?

How stupid can Kane be?
He is willing to lie or deny complicity with
anything as long as he thinks it suits
his purposes.
To Kane his IMAGINED ends justify any evil means.
It really seems like he is merely a stockholder
in the CPS INDUSTRY attempting to manipulate the
price of his own stock.

just keep following the cps money trail.................it leads to
make-work welfare jobs for semi-skilled labor and sweden
worshipers.................

gregory points out that stakeholders defend cps.......................

Greegor wrote:
Kane will lie and distort death statistics to feed his
own paranoic delusions about spanking and dead children.

How can I lie if I'm posting the information provided by various
agencies and opinions?

He must have some major "rescue fantasy" and must
be angry that whole CROWDS of people aren't
following him like the pied piper marching out of Hamelin.

Not in the least.

I am, blush, or was at any rate, a quite charismatic personality. I
can fire people up with quiet but impassioned talk and discussion. I
have a presence that is near celebrity in it's impact, but from the
sixties, when I discovered people flocking to hear me speak and
attempting to 'follow' me, I rejected such a role.

I consider that kind of self aggrandizement and taking taking advantage
of those natural characteristics beneath me, and certainly not what I
was and am about.

I've avoided the limelight, and the prestige, and insisted on doing a
yeoman's work. I've always been IN the trenches exhorting, not up on the
battlements waving flags.

I do wish to protect children from abuse, and I do believe that families
are the best place to do that. Some families fail, or are temporarily
incapacitated. As tough a call as it can be to sort that out, I believe
we must work to do so, as a child has the best chance of growing up to
be healthy, mentally and physically, with their own family.

We just happen to be, in these newsgroups, addressing instance of
incapacity, permanent or temporary.

My professional life revolved around rehabilitating families, helping
children heal and become stronger and independent, and holding extended
family together around the child.

0:-



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

And is it not logical that if CPS is NOT catching the abuse that they are
not catching the real number of deaths at the hands of parents as well?

Hi, Kane,

Your mistaken claim was based upon a percentage of those reported cases.
You pasted the USDHHS data showing 1490 fatalities and claimed that out of
those 1,000 children died as the result of abuse that began with spanking.
The data YOU pasted on reported fatalities showed only 421 children who died
from physical abuse overall, disproving your claim.

If abuse is 15 times higher by parental confession what might the death
toll be?

Who knows? That's the trouble with "unreported numbers" nobody knows what
they are, since they are unreported.

A great many children's deaths that are written off as other causes are
very likely at the hands of parents, Greegor.

Highly doubtful. Reported cases tracked by USDHHS match those fatalities
reported by your source, so you have yet to post any data that challenges
the reported numbers.

There's no one in LE, nor public health, nor child protection that is
unaware that the official figures are "cleaned," that is reduced to the
lowest possible number to make sure there are the fewest false positives
as possible.

You are incorrect. Do you have a reliable source that supports your claim
these figures are "cleaned" or some other fraud is involved with reporting
these numbers?

But those that see the dead children know better. They just aren't allowed
to count them all unless the evidence is concrete enough and unassailable
under legal standards for trial.

Absolutely false. In fact, USDHHS counts the fatality as being caused by
abuse or neglect if a substantiated finding of abuse/neglect was made by
CPS. These findings are not at all subject to court review and do not under
any circumstances have to reach the legal standards for trial. Abuse and
neglect is "substantiated" by the CPS worker and signed off on by the CPS
supervisor without any involvement whatsoever by the courts.
The evidence theshold, if it could be called that, is very low.

This is a hidden problem, Greg. But not hidden from any but the public.

It is a well reported problem, partially because every state in the union
has child fatality review boards.

Greegor wrote:
Doug proved Kane lied about the stats.

No he didn't. I offer, as Doug has, lots of peripheral information
around and about an issue.

I refuse to use some portion of Doug's claims to claim he's lying or
mistaken when he's overall claims, including everything, may be either
unresolved, or do in fact support his claim.

Doug is small, just like you. Will take concepts and claims out of
context, make claims that something is being claimed that is not.

Kane is a nutcase who sites statistics for things they don't prove.

If you've ever written a college paper, child, you know that you are
obligated, if you in graduate studies, to present counter argument, as
well as a wide range of not DIRECTLY related, but supportive information.

You see them in footnotes all the time.

If you engage in conversation here, which is what we do, stopping at
some point and NOT asking the opponent to clarify (as I constantly ask
you to do) and simply assuming that the entire claim and argument is
contained in a single post IS JUST LYING AND MISLEADING AND UNETHICAL,
Greg.

Which something YOU do, and Doug JUST DID.

The fact that neither of you are addressing further argument on my part
that would lend credence to my claim that child abuse and filicide are
underreported simply demonstrates your disgusting and unethical behavior
in debate.

The argument of whether or not x number of child fatalities, are
filicides by virtue of an escalation from legal "corporal punishment" to
injurious and lethal assault is as yet TOTALLY UNRESOLVED.

It is, as the medical researchers, and LE BOTH AGREE, nearly impossible
to have a near correct number as they are so easily hidden acts of
violence.

Misdirection, blaming others, SIDS, "he fell" and a host of other dodges
make the numbers suspect ranging downward, rather than clearly what they
would have to be....far higher than authorities can record.

If you do not believe that, fine, say so, but do not call me, the
medical research people, and LE and LE research, liars, Greg.

It's not nice. 0:-

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Greegor wrote:
Kane wrote
"Over a thousand a year. My bet is not ONE of those
murderous parents thinks CPS is a useful agency."

Aren't they EXPERTS at the failures of the agency?

How would they be experts?

Why should they have an opinion any better
than the millions of other people who know
that CPS agencies are a government run RACKET?

Please provide some proof of your claims.

Until you do you are simply giving and opinion, or lying.


0:-


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)

Greegor wrote:
Should we throw tea in a harbor to make our point?

What point?

You break the progression of discussion. Is that your intent?



--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)