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Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 1st 06, 08:02 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?

Like there's only two choices?

This is the argument, above, and in the subject field that spankers and
protectors of spankers frequently use to complain about non-CP
advocates.

Doesn't it make you kind of wonder if the spankers, all spanked
themselves, didn't get paddled a little to high up their back?

Ever see a parent that themselves were not spanked, but instead
parented as below resort to spanking for teaching?

Here's an interesting replyto those who posit only two choices:

"There are a multitude of parenting strategies for very young children
that do
not rely on reasoning or spanking. The first is to understand where
this
little child is developmentally and have appropriate expectations.
Then try
avoiding the issue if the expectation is developmentally inappropriate.
Use
redirection, substitution, extinction, meeting child's immediate needs,
and a
multitude of other parenting strategies. If you want more information,
please
ask. I've posted this many times on alt.parenting.spanking. Parenting
is
about teaching. Parenting is about helping children develop internal
control
and moral reasoning -- it's not about hitting for compliance.

And a multitude of studies spanning several decades exist showing that
spanking
is linked to long and short term risk factors and no studies that show
spanking
to be preferrable to alternative forms of discipline that do not
involve
hitting, hurting, shaming, or demeaning a child. Of course, if you
have
studies that support your position, I'd love to read them. Please post
your
sources.

LaVonne "
Oct 21 2003

  #2  
Old February 7th 06, 08:19 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...out530773.html

Health
Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior


MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any
form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more
likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of
violence, researchers report.

But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always
the norm in American families.

"Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would
tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him
or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the
University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.

"This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising
their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with
violence, she said.

According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they
think is expected -- fight.

On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state
categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that
children can also understand and accept, the researchers say.

They published their findings in the February issue of the journal
Pediatrics.

The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old
and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area.

The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric
practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic
range.

The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental
attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The
more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child
was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the
use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking.

The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster,
associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence,
part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in
Baltimore.

"It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of
violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between
parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they
will have problems with increased violence."

Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience
violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the
risk."

It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from
their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be
two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant
professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior
author of the study.

"What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than
what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for
violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity
and substance abuse.

"It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel
about these issues," she said.

More information

To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as
protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and
Control.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm

Abstract of the study mentioned in the article:

PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447
(doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421)
Adolescent Medicine
Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among
Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in
Primary Care
OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and
stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence,
parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young
adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement.

METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents
attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age
and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test.

RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental
disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial
attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood
of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they
would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation
(stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents'
attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight,
physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of
corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated
with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the
youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and
fighting, bullying, and violence victimization.

CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may
be an important protective factor against youth involvement in
violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with
both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents
should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to
resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these
skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment.

  #3  
Old February 7th 06, 09:56 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior



http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...6/02/06/hscout...

Health
Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior

MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any
form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more
likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of
violence, researchers report.

But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always
the norm in American families.

"Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would
tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him
or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the
University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.

"This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising
their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with
violence, she said.

According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they
think is expected -- fight.

On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state
categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that
children can also understand and accept, the researchers say.

They published their findings in the February issue of the journal
Pediatrics.

The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old
and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area.

The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric
practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic
range.

The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental
attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The
more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child
was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the
use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking.

The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster,
associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence,
part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in
Baltimore.

"It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of
violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between
parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they
will have problems with increased violence."

Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience
violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the
risk."

It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from
their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be
two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant
professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior
author of the study.

"What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than
what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for
violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity
and substance abuse.

"It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel
about these issues," she said.

More information

To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as
protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and
Control.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm

Abstract of the study mentioned in the article:

PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447
(doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421)
Adolescent Medicine
Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among
Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in
Primary Care
OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and
stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence,
parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young
adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement.

METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents
attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age
and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test.

RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental
disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial
attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood
of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they
would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation
(stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents'
attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight,
physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of
corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated
with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the
youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and
fighting, bullying, and violence victimization.

CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may
be an important protective factor against youth involvement in
violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with
both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents
should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to
resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these
skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment.

  #4  
Old February 8th 06, 08:26 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...out530773.html

Health
Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior


MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any
form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more
likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of
violence, researchers report.

But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always
the norm in American families.

"Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would
tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him
or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the
University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.

"This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising
their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with
violence, she said.

According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they
think is expected -- fight.

On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state
categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that
children can also understand and accept, the researchers say.

They published their findings in the February issue of the journal
Pediatrics.

The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old
and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area.

The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric
practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic
range.

The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental
attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The
more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child
was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the
use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking.

The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster,
associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence,
part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in
Baltimore.

"It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of
violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between
parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they
will have problems with increased violence."

Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience
violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the
risk."

It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from
their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be
two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant
professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior
author of the study.

"What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than
what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for
violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity
and substance abuse.

"It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel
about these issues," she said.

More information

To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as
protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and
Control.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm

Abstract of the study mentioned in the article:

PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447
(doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421)
Adolescent Medicine
Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among
Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in
Primary Care
OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and
stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence,
parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young
adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement.

METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents
attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age
and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test.

RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental
disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial
attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood
of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they
would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation
(stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents'
attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight,
physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of
corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated
with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the
youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and
fighting, bullying, and violence victimization.

CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may
be an important protective factor against youth involvement in
violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with
both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents
should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to
resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these
skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment.
  #5  
Old February 8th 06, 09:39 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is this being ignored? ....was.... Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?


0:- wrote:
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...out530773.html

Health
Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior


MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any
form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more
likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of
violence, researchers report.

But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always
the norm in American families.

"Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would
tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him
or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the
University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.

"This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising
their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with
violence, she said.

According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they
think is expected -- fight.

On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state
categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that
children can also understand and accept, the researchers say.

They published their findings in the February issue of the journal
Pediatrics.

The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old
and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area.

The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric
practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic
range.

The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental
attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The
more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child
was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the
use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking.

The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster,
associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence,
part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in
Baltimore.

"It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of
violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between
parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they
will have problems with increased violence."

Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience
violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the
risk."

It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from
their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be
two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant
professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior
author of the study.

"What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than
what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for
violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity
and substance abuse.

"It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel
about these issues," she said.

More information

To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as
protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and
Control.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm

Abstract of the study mentioned in the article:

PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447
(doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421)
Adolescent Medicine
Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among
Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in
Primary Care
OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and
stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence,
parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young
adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement.

METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents
attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age
and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test.

RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental
disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial
attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood
of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they
would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation
(stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents'
attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight,
physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of
corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated
with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the
youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and
fighting, bullying, and violence victimization.

CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may
be an important protective factor against youth involvement in
violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with
both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents
should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to
resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these
skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment.


  #6  
Old February 9th 06, 11:48 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?

Ever notice how *not one person* responded to my post or yours, which
quoted my post on alternative parenting strategies that utilize neither
spanking nor rely on reasoning for children who are not developmentally
at a level where reasoning alone is appropriate?

Could it be they do not want to know alternatives? Or could it be that
they already know the alternatives and either do not want to take the
time to practice good parenting, or that they simply believe they need
to hit their child?

LaVonne

0:- wrote:
Like there's only two choices?

This is the argument, above, and in the subject field that spankers and
protectors of spankers frequently use to complain about non-CP
advocates.

Doesn't it make you kind of wonder if the spankers, all spanked
themselves, didn't get paddled a little to high up their back?

Ever see a parent that themselves were not spanked, but instead
parented as below resort to spanking for teaching?

Here's an interesting replyto those who posit only two choices:

"There are a multitude of parenting strategies for very young children
that do
not rely on reasoning or spanking. The first is to understand where
this
little child is developmentally and have appropriate expectations.
Then try
avoiding the issue if the expectation is developmentally inappropriate.
Use
redirection, substitution, extinction, meeting child's immediate needs,
and a
multitude of other parenting strategies. If you want more information,
please
ask. I've posted this many times on alt.parenting.spanking. Parenting
is
about teaching. Parenting is about helping children develop internal
control
and moral reasoning -- it's not about hitting for compliance.

And a multitude of studies spanning several decades exist showing that
spanking
is linked to long and short term risk factors and no studies that show
spanking
to be preferrable to alternative forms of discipline that do not
involve
hitting, hurting, shaming, or demeaning a child. Of course, if you
have
studies that support your position, I'd love to read them. Please post
your
sources.

LaVonne "
Oct 21 2003


  #7  
Old February 10th 06, 12:20 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?


So, what alternatives are you suggesting, LaVonne? Is yelling a better
alternative?

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents as
well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than
physical punishment."

It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict
resolution"! ;-)

Doan

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Ever notice how *not one person* responded to my post or yours, which
quoted my post on alternative parenting strategies that utilize neither
spanking nor rely on reasoning for children who are not developmentally
at a level where reasoning alone is appropriate?

Could it be they do not want to know alternatives? Or could it be that
they already know the alternatives and either do not want to take the
time to practice good parenting, or that they simply believe they need
to hit their child?

LaVonne

0:- wrote:
Like there's only two choices?

This is the argument, above, and in the subject field that spankers and
protectors of spankers frequently use to complain about non-CP
advocates.

Doesn't it make you kind of wonder if the spankers, all spanked
themselves, didn't get paddled a little to high up their back?

Ever see a parent that themselves were not spanked, but instead
parented as below resort to spanking for teaching?

Here's an interesting replyto those who posit only two choices:

"There are a multitude of parenting strategies for very young children
that do
not rely on reasoning or spanking. The first is to understand where
this
little child is developmentally and have appropriate expectations.
Then try
avoiding the issue if the expectation is developmentally inappropriate.
Use
redirection, substitution, extinction, meeting child's immediate needs,
and a
multitude of other parenting strategies. If you want more information,
please
ask. I've posted this many times on alt.parenting.spanking. Parenting
is
about teaching. Parenting is about helping children develop internal
control
and moral reasoning -- it's not about hitting for compliance.

And a multitude of studies spanning several decades exist showing that
spanking
is linked to long and short term risk factors and no studies that show
spanking
to be preferrable to alternative forms of discipline that do not
involve
hitting, hurting, shaming, or demeaning a child. Of course, if you
have
studies that support your position, I'd love to read them. Please post
your
sources.

LaVonne "
Oct 21 2003




  #8  
Old February 10th 06, 12:35 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trying to "reason" with a child or spanking?


Doan wrote:
So, what alternatives are you suggesting, LaVonne? Is yelling a better
alternative?

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents as
well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than
physical punishment."

It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict
resolution"! ;-)


You are changing the subject again. Why?

Could it be something about this subject LaVonne offered?

The above has nothing whatsoever to do with her post.

0:-



Doan

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Ever notice how *not one person* responded to my post or yours, which
quoted my post on alternative parenting strategies that utilize neither
spanking nor rely on reasoning for children who are not developmentally
at a level where reasoning alone is appropriate?

Could it be they do not want to know alternatives? Or could it be that
they already know the alternatives and either do not want to take the
time to practice good parenting, or that they simply believe they need
to hit their child?

LaVonne

0:- wrote:
Like there's only two choices?

This is the argument, above, and in the subject field that spankers and
protectors of spankers frequently use to complain about non-CP
advocates.

Doesn't it make you kind of wonder if the spankers, all spanked
themselves, didn't get paddled a little to high up their back?

Ever see a parent that themselves were not spanked, but instead
parented as below resort to spanking for teaching?

Here's an interesting replyto those who posit only two choices:

"There are a multitude of parenting strategies for very young children
that do
not rely on reasoning or spanking. The first is to understand where
this
little child is developmentally and have appropriate expectations.
Then try
avoiding the issue if the expectation is developmentally inappropriate.
Use
redirection, substitution, extinction, meeting child's immediate needs,
and a
multitude of other parenting strategies. If you want more information,
please
ask. I've posted this many times on alt.parenting.spanking. Parenting
is
about teaching. Parenting is about helping children develop internal
control
and moral reasoning -- it's not about hitting for compliance.

And a multitude of studies spanning several decades exist showing that
spanking
is linked to long and short term risk factors and no studies that show
spanking
to be preferrable to alternative forms of discipline that do not
involve
hitting, hurting, shaming, or demeaning a child. Of course, if you
have
studies that support your position, I'd love to read them. Please post
your
sources.

LaVonne "
Oct 21 2003




  #9  
Old February 11th 06, 08:10 AM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior


"This study has a number of limitations. With no means of external
validation, the self-report nature of this study leaves room for reporter
bias on the part of both the youth and their parents. The majority of the
adult respondents were mothers, which may have influenced the data. The
study is cross sectional, and therefore it is not possible to determine
either causality or directionality of the variables analyzed. Finally,
because the study population was limited to a select group of young
people, clinic-attending adolescents who scored positive on the PSC-17 and
their parents, the findings cannot be generalized to all adolescents.
Additional research to further explore the findings should be longitudinal
in nature and should include a larger and more diverse group of
adolescents. "

Doan

On 7 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:



http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/heal...6/02/06/hscout...

Health
Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior

MONDAY, Feb. 6 (HealthDay News) -- Parents who set an example that any
form of violence -- including spanking -- is unacceptable are more
likely to bring up children who don't get into fights or other forms of
violence, researchers report.

But their study also found that this type of childrearing isn't always
the norm in American families.

"Almost 40 percent of parents in the study population said they would
tell their child it is OK to hit if another person pushes or hits him
or her," said lead researcher Dr. Sally-Ann Ohene, formerly of the
University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.

"This suggests that for a significant number of these parents, advising
their child to fight back is [considered] the best way" to deal with
violence, she said.

According to Ohene, children often heed that advice and do what they
think is expected -- fight.

On the other hand, parents who do not hit their children and who state
categorically that hitting is wrong are sending a clear message that
children can also understand and accept, the researchers say.

They published their findings in the February issue of the journal
Pediatrics.

The study is based on a 2003 survey of 134 children 10 to 15 years old
and their parents living in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area.

The parent-child pairs were culled from eight outpatient pediatric
practices in urban and suburban areas covering a wide socio-economic
range.

The researchers found a clear inverse relationship between parental
attitudes toward violence and their children's history of fighting: The
more accepting the parent was toward violence, the more prone the child
was to engage in violent scuffles. Similar results were found for the
use of corporal punishment in the home, such as spanking.

The results are interesting but predictable, said Daniel W. Webster,
associate professor at the Center for the Prevention of Youth Violence,
part of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in
Baltimore.

"It is very consistent with other research about the cycle of
violence," he said. "In homes where there is physical violence between
parents, or parent to child, that increases the likelihood that they
will have problems with increased violence."

Webster stressed, however, that "most children who do experience
violence do not go on to violence -- but it certainly increases the
risk."

It's also important to note that what behaviors parents expect from
their child, and what their children believe their parents want, can be
two very different things, said Dr. Iris Wagman Borowsky, an assistant
professor of pediatrics at the University of Minnesota and the senior
author of the study.

"What a child thinks a parent expects of him is more important than
what a parent actually thinks," she said. "We find this is true for
violence as well as other risk behaviors," including sexual activity
and substance abuse.

"It just makes good sense to talk with your child about how you feel
about these issues," she said.

More information

To learn more about risk factors for youth violence, as well as
protective factors, go to the National Center for Injury Prevention and
Control.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/yvfacts.htm

Abstract of the study mentioned in the article:

PEDIATRICS Vol. 117 No. 2 February 2006, pp. 441-447
(doi:10.1542/peds.2005-0421)
Adolescent Medicine
Parental Expectations, Physical Punishment, and Violence Among
Adolescents Who Score Positive on a Psychosocial Screening Test in
Primary Care
OBJECTIVE. We sought to examine the relationship between perceived and
stated parental expectations regarding adolescents' use of violence,
parental use of physical punishment as discipline, and young
adolescents' violence-related attitudes and involvement.

METHODS. Surveys were completed by 134 youth and their parents
attending 8 pediatric practices. All youth were 10 to 15 years of age
and had scored positive on a psychosocial screening test.

RESULTS. Multivariate analyses revealed that perceived parental
disapproval of the use of violence was associated with a more prosocial
attitude toward interpersonal peer violence and a decreased likelihood
of physical fighting by the youth. Parental report of whether they
would advise their child to use violence in a conflict situation
(stated parental expectations) was not associated with the adolescents'
attitudes toward interpersonal peer violence, intentions to fight,
physical fighting, bullying, or violence victimization. Parental use of
corporal punishment as a disciplining method was inversely associated
with a prosocial attitude toward interpersonal peer violence among the
youth and positively correlated with youths' intentions to fight and
fighting, bullying, and violence victimization.

CONCLUSIONS. Perceived parental disapproval of the use of violence may
be an important protective factor against youth involvement in
violence, and parental use of physical punishment is associated with
both violence perpetration and victimization among youth. Parents
should be encouraged to clearly communicate to their children how to
resolve conflicts without resorting to violence and to model these
skills themselves by avoiding the use of physical punishment.



  #10  
Old February 11th 06, 09:10 PM posted to alt.parenting.spanking
external usenet poster
 
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Default Parents' Views on Violence Guide Child's Behavior

To the reader:

If you have made it a practice to read research reports you know that
each and every one, that has any peer credibility, will include a
paragraph or two with caveats as to the limitations of the research (no
study can explore all the possibilities, realistically) and suggestions
for further research by others, or sometimes even plans to expand their
own into the areas listed as limitations.

Don't let yourself be fooled by harassing posters who think that the
normal limitations of all research negate the validity of the one you
are viewing.

It's just childish harassment, nothing more.

No argument offered in rebutal of the study. No other studies offered.

In other words, no debate or argument, just harassment.

Researchers ignore these, rightly so, but do respond to thoughtful and
reasonable criticism, as we have seen in the past in this ng, from
citation.

My advice if you wish to really get into this issue without losing your
way?

Ignore those that harass and "debate" on fine points of what some
poster might have or might not have meant.

And in so doing, avoiding the subject under discussion.

The study cited is what it is. No attempt to make it prove or support
something not in evidence in the study itself was intended. Attempts to
make it look that way by copy and pasting sections of the report sans
context are nothing more than harassment, not worthy of further comment
than to point out the low moral and ethical standards of those that do
such things.

Have a great day.

Kane

 




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