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A disconnect at camp



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 7th 06, 02:40 PM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
Fred Goodwin, CMA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 227
Default A disconnect at camp

A disconnect at camp

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1154728213922&call_pag eid=970599119419
http://tinyurl.com/mb4ox

Kids are OK with new no-cellphone rules, but not so for some of their
parents

Aug. 5, 2006. 01:00 AM
FRANCINE KOPUN
FEATURE WRITER

Ali Goodwill, 14, spends three hours a night on her cellphone.

"I usually have to gossip with my best friends, and I just talk with
random people for another hour. ... I love my cellphone so much. ...
It's my baby."

So you would think there would have been tears, tantrums, perhaps a
smuggling incident, when the Grade 9 student was asked to hand over the
phone at the gates of Camp Tawingo, which has a strict no-cellphone
policy. Not so.

"It frees me," says Goodwill, who will spend three weeks at the Muskoka
camp. "Don't get me wrong. Like Toronto is my life by far, but when I
come to Tawingo it's a whole different world. You don't care what you
look like, you don't have to be anything, you don't have to try, you
don't have to worry about gossip and reputation.

"I can't talk to my closest friends, but all of them are at camp, too.
They all had to give up their cellphones. I think people sneak their
cellphones at Manitou, but you didn't hear that from me."

Overnight camps remain one of the final cell-free frontiers in the
lives of tweens and teenagers - for now. Camp directors are meeting
resistance, sometimes from parents who can't bear to be out of contact
with their offspring. "We're confiscating them all the time," says Ben
Lustig, director of Camp Winnebagoe, of cellphones. The Muskoka-area
camp has banned them, saying too-frequent calls home foster
homesickness. Besides, the summer camp experience is supposed to
encourage independence in children.

"If they could be on the phone with mummy and dad every few hours, it's
really taking away from the experience," says Lustig. "I think most
parents would agree with our policy, but certainly there are some who
would love nothing more than to be in constant communication with their
kids while at camp."

At Camp Muskoka, executive director Scott Creed says parents have
threatened to pull their kids out if they can't keep their cellphones,
although none has ever followed through on the threat.

"I would say 75 per cent of parents completely understand" while the
remainder either agree begrudgingly or will go so far as to smuggle
phones in to their kids, he says. "It's a matter of sort of talking
parents off the ledge."

Most camps hand back the cellphones at the end of the summer, but Camp
Manitou, also in Muskoka, has started keeping the phones it
confiscates. It's written into the contract that parents must sign. The
confiscated phones are donated to charity.

"On the first day when we ask kids to give them up, we usually get five
or 10, but there's usually another 10 out there that we end up having
to take and not give back," says co-owner Mark Diamond.

"The truth is, if we didn't, kids would just keep on bringing them up."

It's a long way from Walden Pond, but then not all summer camps are
what they used to be. Campers still retreat to the wilds each summer
for the typical activities: Swimming and canoeing and beading
necklaces, but they can also sign up for a four-week course in how to
be a CEO.

So it should come as no surprise that when it comes to other personal
electronic devices: iPods, MP3-players, Discmans, DVD players and video
games, camps are all over the map. Some ban all personal electronic
devices, but even at Ak-o-Mak, a sports-wilderness facility for girls
in the Almaguin Highlands, 300 kilometres north of Toronto, campers are
permitted to bring iPods and MP3-players, because many of them are
joggers who like to listen to music when they run, says director Jane
Lawrence.

Although Camp Winnebagoe bans cellphones, campers are allowed to listen
to their iPods and play their DVDs and video games in their cabins
during free time.

"In this business, you have to pick your battles, and there are just
some issues that are just not, frankly, all that critical to our
operation," says Lustig.

Others disagree with the idea of personal electronic devices at summer
camp, saying they interfere with socialization - another hallmark of
the summer camp experience.

Tia Pearse, who owns Camp Tawingo with her husband, sent her 9-year-old
son to a camp in Quebec this summer, and although he had a good time,
she was disappointed to learn the camp had a movie night.

"Kids go home and remember the trip where they camped out for two
nights and took their own food, they don't remember: "Oh yeah, and then
we watched Ferris Bueller," says Pearse, who also represents the
Ontario Camping Association's public awareness committee.

Richard Louv, author of Last Child in the Woods: Saving our Children
from Nature-Deficit Disorder, is opposed to the idea of cellphones at
summer camp, but feels that when they are found in the possession of
campers, they shouldn't be removed in a punitive way. It needs to be
explained to campers that the alternative - fully experiencing nature
- is worth giving up a cellphone for.

He says parents also need to examine their own behaviour, and ask
themselves whether they are too reliant on technology. Louv recently
took his 18-year-old son on a fishing trip to Alaska. They left behind
their personal electronic devices, including Louv's laptop.

"It was as much withdrawal for me as it was for him. I'm used to
working all the time, to being online all the time," said Louv.

Fishing in a stream one day, they were rushed by a bear that popped out
from behind a distant ridge.

Says Louv: "Nothing concentrates the attention more than a bear. An
iPod just doesn't compare."

  #2  
Old August 9th 06, 05:47 AM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
greccogirl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default A disconnect at camp

Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:

A disconnect at camp

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1154728213922&call_pag eid=970599119419
http://tinyurl.com/mb4ox

Kids are OK with new no-cellphone rules, but not so for some of their
parents

Aug. 5, 2006. 01:00 AM
FRANCINE KOPUN
FEATURE WRITER

Ali Goodwill, 14, spends three hours a night on her cellphone.

"I usually have to gossip with my best friends, and I just talk with
random people for another hour. ... I love my cellphone so much. ...
It's my baby."

So you would think there would have been tears, tantrums, perhaps a
smuggling incident, when the Grade 9 student was asked to hand over the
phone at the gates of Camp Tawingo, which has a strict no-cellphone
policy. Not so.

"It frees me," says Goodwill, who will spend three weeks at the Muskoka
camp. "Don't get me wrong. Like Toronto is my life by far, but when I
come to Tawingo it's a whole different world. You don't care what you
look like, you don't have to be anything, you don't have to try, you
don't have to worry about gossip and reputation.

"I can't talk to my closest friends, but all of them are at camp, too.
They all had to give up their cellphones. I think people sneak their
cellphones at Manitou, but you didn't hear that from me."

Overnight camps remain one of the final cell-free frontiers in the
lives of tweens and teenagers - for now. Camp directors are meeting
resistance, sometimes from parents who can't bear to be out of contact
with their offspring. "We're confiscating them all the time," says Ben
Lustig, director of Camp Winnebagoe, of cellphones. The Muskoka-area
camp has banned them, saying too-frequent calls home foster
homesickness. Besides, the summer camp experience is supposed to
encourage independence in children.

"If they could be on the phone with mummy and dad every few hours, it's
really taking away from the experience," says Lustig. "I think most
parents would agree with our policy, but certainly there are some who
would love nothing more than to be in constant communication with their
kids while at camp."

At Camp Muskoka, executive director Scott Creed says parents have
threatened to pull their kids out if they can't keep their cellphones,
although none has ever followed through on the threat.

"I would say 75 per cent of parents completely understand" while the
remainder either agree begrudgingly or will go so far as to smuggle
phones in to their kids, he says. "It's a matter of sort of talking
parents off the ledge."

Most camps hand back the cellphones at the end of the summer, but Camp
Manitou, also in Muskoka, has started keeping the phones it
confiscates. It's written into the contract that parents must sign. The
confiscated phones are donated to charity.

"On the first day when we ask kids to give them up, we usually get five
or 10, but there's usually another 10 out there that we end up having
to take and not give back," says co-owner Mark Diamond.

"The truth is, if we didn't, kids would just keep on bringing them up."

It's a long way from Walden Pond, but then not all summer camps are
what they used to be. Campers still retreat to the wilds each summer
for the typical activities: Swimming and canoeing and beading
necklaces, but they can also sign up for a four-week course in how to
be a CEO.

So it should come as no surprise that when it comes to other personal
electronic devices: iPods, MP3-players, Discmans, DVD players and video
games, camps are all over the map. Some ban all personal electronic
devices, but even at Ak-o-Mak, a sports-wilderness facility for girls
in the Almaguin Highlands, 300 kilometres north of Toronto, campers are
permitted to bring iPods and MP3-players, because many of them are
joggers who like to listen to music when they run, says director Jane
Lawrence.

Although Camp Winnebagoe bans cellphones, campers are allowed to listen
to their iPods and play their DVDs and video games in their cabins
during free time.

"In this business, you have to pick your battles, and there are just
some issues that are just not, frankly, all that critical to our
operation," says Lustig.

Others disagree with the idea of personal electronic devices at summer
camp, saying they interfere with socialization - another hallmark of
the summer camp experience.

Tia Pearse, who owns Camp Tawingo with her husband, sent her 9-year-old
son to a camp in Quebec this summer, and although he had a good time,
she was disappointed to learn the camp had a movie night.

"Kids go home and remember the trip where they camped out for two
nights and took their own food, they don't remember: "Oh yeah, and then
we watched Ferris Bueller," says Pearse, who also represents the
Ontario Camping Association's public awareness committee.

Richard Louv, author of Last Child in the Woods: Saving our Children
from Nature-Deficit Disorder, is opposed to the idea of cellphones at
summer camp, but feels that when they are found in the possession of
campers, they shouldn't be removed in a punitive way. It needs to be
explained to campers that the alternative - fully experiencing nature
- is worth giving up a cellphone for.

He says parents also need to examine their own behaviour, and ask
themselves whether they are too reliant on technology. Louv recently
took his 18-year-old son on a fishing trip to Alaska. They left behind
their personal electronic devices, including Louv's laptop.

"It was as much withdrawal for me as it was for him. I'm used to
working all the time, to being online all the time," said Louv.

Fishing in a stream one day, they were rushed by a bear that popped out
from behind a distant ridge.

Says Louv: "Nothing concentrates the attention more than a bear. An
iPod just doesn't compare."

My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone! ROTFLMAO
  #3  
Old August 9th 06, 07:42 AM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
L.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 184
Default A disconnect at camp


greccogirl wrote:
My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone! ROTFLMAO


A lot of them got in trouble and had no way to contact anyone for help.
I want my child to have the means to contact me anytime, anywhere,
regardless of anyone else's policies.

-L.

  #4  
Old August 9th 06, 09:03 AM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
Cyli
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default A disconnect at camp

On 8 Aug 2006 23:42:18 -0700, "L." wrote:


greccogirl wrote:
My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone! ROTFLMAO


A lot of them got in trouble and had no way to contact anyone for help.
I want my child to have the means to contact me anytime, anywhere,
regardless of anyone else's policies.


Then don't send them to a camp with those policies?

Got in trouble? How much trouble that their camp mates and counselors
couldn't take care of? Cites, please?
--

r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
  #5  
Old August 9th 06, 06:03 PM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
Nan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 211
Default A disconnect at camp

On 8 Aug 2006 23:42:18 -0700, "L." wrote:


greccogirl wrote:
My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone! ROTFLMAO


A lot of them got in trouble and had no way to contact anyone for help.
I want my child to have the means to contact me anytime, anywhere,
regardless of anyone else's policies.


Thinking back when I went to camp.... there was no place that we could
have gotten into trouble to the extreme you're thinking of, without
someone knowing. The camps do have responsible adults around, and
they don't let your kid go running off to doG knows where, without
supervision.

Nan
  #6  
Old August 9th 06, 06:10 PM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
Ericka Kammerer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,293
Default A disconnect at camp

Nan wrote:
On 8 Aug 2006 23:42:18 -0700, "L." wrote:

greccogirl wrote:
My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone! ROTFLMAO

A lot of them got in trouble and had no way to contact anyone for help.
I want my child to have the means to contact me anytime, anywhere,
regardless of anyone else's policies.


Thinking back when I went to camp.... there was no place that we could
have gotten into trouble to the extreme you're thinking of, without
someone knowing. The camps do have responsible adults around, and
they don't let your kid go running off to doG knows where, without
supervision.


I rather suspect the concern is being abused in
some way, either by camp staff or by other campers.
Obviously, if it's the child him- or herself who's
causing trouble, he or she is not going to haul out
the cellphone to report him- or herself ;-) Now, one
can argue whether such situations are a big enough risk
to warrant insisting that the child have a cellphone...

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #7  
Old August 9th 06, 06:27 PM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
Nan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 211
Default A disconnect at camp

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 13:10:04 -0400, Ericka Kammerer
wrote:

I rather suspect the concern is being abused in
some way, either by camp staff or by other campers.
Obviously, if it's the child him- or herself who's
causing trouble, he or she is not going to haul out
the cellphone to report him- or herself ;-)


I was thinking more of situations like getting lost in the woods, or
something to that effect. The abuse situation has merit, but I don't
think enough to warrant needing a cellphone. The entire camp isn't
likely to consist of pedophiles salivating at the mouth, to abuse
children!

Nan


  #8  
Old August 9th 06, 07:00 PM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
greccogirl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default A disconnect at camp

L. wrote:
greccogirl wrote:

My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone! ROTFLMAO



A lot of them got in trouble and had no way to contact anyone for help.
I want my child to have the means to contact me anytime, anywhere,
regardless of anyone else's policies.

-L.

A lot of them? Doubtful! I went to camp all my life and never "got
into trouble". I didn't know anyone who did! A child doesn't need a
cell phone at camp, unless they are too immature to be there in the
first place, or possibly his parents are too immature to let their kid
out of their sight.
  #9  
Old August 9th 06, 07:01 PM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
greccogirl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default A disconnect at camp

Cyli wrote:

On 8 Aug 2006 23:42:18 -0700, "L." wrote:


greccogirl wrote:

My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone! ROTFLMAO


A lot of them got in trouble and had no way to contact anyone for help.
I want my child to have the means to contact me anytime, anywhere,
regardless of anyone else's policies.



Then don't send them to a camp with those policies?

Got in trouble? How much trouble that their camp mates and counselors
couldn't take care of? Cites, please?


Yup! It isn't the kids who have problems it's the parents who can't be
away for 20 seconds without hyperventilating.
  #10  
Old August 9th 06, 07:01 PM posted to misc.kids,rec.scouting.usa,alt.parenting.solutions,alt.rec.camping,rec.outdoors.camping
greccogirl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default A disconnect at camp

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Nan wrote:

On 8 Aug 2006 23:42:18 -0700, "L." wrote:

greccogirl wrote:

My god, what the children of the world do, before cell phones? I guess
they were just abused by having to go to camp without a phone!
ROTFLMAO

A lot of them got in trouble and had no way to contact anyone for help.
I want my child to have the means to contact me anytime, anywhere,
regardless of anyone else's policies.



Thinking back when I went to camp.... there was no place that we could
have gotten into trouble to the extreme you're thinking of, without
someone knowing. The camps do have responsible adults around, and
they don't let your kid go running off to doG knows where, without
supervision.



I rather suspect the concern is being abused in
some way, either by camp staff or by other campers.
Obviously, if it's the child him- or herself who's
causing trouble, he or she is not going to haul out
the cellphone to report him- or herself ;-) Now, one
can argue whether such situations are a big enough risk
to warrant insisting that the child have a cellphone...

Best wishes,
Ericka


Most kids are abused by family members and not strangers.
 




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